UFO shoots down rocket: Big Sur/ Vandenburg UFO incident

Originally posted by Kandinsky
What fake video? The claim is that footage was taken and hasn't been seen since. Jacobs claims to have recorded footage of something knocking out a rocket.

hmmmm..... this might interest you.....

The only reason the film became top secret is because it revealed a weakness in the Atlas weapon system, which was our only on-alert ICBM at the time. All the original films of all launches would have been destroyed or recycled decades ago, or else today we would need a Pentagon-sized warehouse just to hold all of them. A couple of years after the master copy had been stored in a vault used exclusively for top-secret storage, I was asked if it could be destroyed to conserve space, and of course I approved.

www.csicop.org...

Originally posted by Kandinsky
I'm asking if anyone can find a source of the letters from Major Mansmann validating Jacobs' claims.

check here....

www.nicap.org...

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

 

In my opinion, Jacobs is honestly telling us what he experienced and the criticism he has received over the years from people like Klass for coming forward with the story is just plain sad.

cheers easynow....

check here......

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by mcrom901
Nice one! I knew I'd seen the actual letter a couple of years back. My google fu is usually superb, but several searches and the help of another ATSer missed it.

Why the hell has my month old thread gone top of 'My ATS?'

I had a suspicion this incident was one of the truly classic cases. With the letter and Mansmann's other letters, it seems to provide a strong case for something very unusual occurring. It's been bugging me since I wrote a Philip Klass thread last year. There are so few cases that stay on the credible/plausible side of the see-saw compared to all the questionable BS ones.

Karl12's 'Missing Evidence' thread could use a post about where this alleged footage could be?!

Thanks for all the posts and especially Malcrm for the link I couldn't find

Zombie threads and double posts

[edit on 23-6-2010 by Kandinsky]

Greetings,

For what it's worth. I know about the report and have for several years. In my judgement the incident most likely happened and the film went into the classified vaults along with other evidence like it. I was in high school at the time of the incident but since then have known and worked for and with former members of the 1369th.

The series of events of the incident make sense from the military perspective. The civilian investigators most likely came from the Office of Naval Intelligence instead of the CIA.

We know for a fact that the Condon Report is a bunch of bunk but what we really don't know and the government isn't saying is just how danger ETs pose to the human race if any. My best,

i accidentally started a duplicate thread to this one, which was closed, but i wanted to include my original post with the main body of information, so here it is:
------------------------------------------------


i was excited to find this [video] tonight, looking for something else, because now i can share something that i've been wanting to talk about for quite some time but it is such an extraordinary claim i felt the need to wait and see if any extraordinary evidence might come my way.

not for me but for the reader. i don't expect anyone to believe just me, especially when i get my information from sources that i know to be true because it's personal, like a friendship. i don't expect anyone else to even consider my sources as sources in general, so for the most part, i say nothing at all if i don't have some other, more objective source.

there. so now you know i'm a freak for sure.


anyway, back to the thing i want to share.
many of us at ATS are familiar with the 1980 Rendlesham Forest UFO incident, at Bentwaters Military Base in the UK. it happened right at Christmas time, two evenings in a row.
Here it is, at Wiki.
And a few threads on the subject, here at ATS:
Bentwaters UFO Incident
The Case for Rendlesham
Rendlesham Forest UFO Incident
if you want more, just do a forum search - there are a whole lot of related threads!

since the incident, itself, has likely been discussed into exhaustion, i won't go into it - please read at least one of the links if you are unfamiliar with the incident.

it was a week or two before Christmas that i first saw the UFO Hunters (on History channel) episode on this subject - i had already been exposed to the information a couple of times already but hadn't paid that much attention.
but that night, it did catch my attention right away and i was glued to the tv for the whole hour and then made sure to watch it again later that evening when it aired again.

watching the show unfold its story, there was something in my mind that was unfolding, too. it was definitely an epiphany i was having but it wasn't the sudden flash kind of a-ha moment but rather almost like seeing what was "in between the lines" in my mind while "the lines" i was watching on the tube.

and this is what i knew, when the show was over: that the reason that UFO came to that place, those nights, was expressly to disable the triggers or fuses, etc, of the pretty large stockpile of US nuclear weapons being stored at our UK Allies' Bentwaters base.
at the time, both countries denied the presence of any nuclear weapons, at all, in the base.
but several years later, it was confirmed that there were a LOT of weapons, waiting and ready in the heightened tension of the first days of the Soviet War in Afghanistan
i remember that time - i was in the 5th grade, maybe, but i was aware of the extreme peril and possibility of WW3 breaking out.
that was the same conflict that was later dubbed "Charlie Wilson's War" - it ended after ten years and the cold war essentially was over, too, if not officially.
it also led to the Iran Hostage situation which is still a very sore spot for many people.

the UFO incident was a year after it started, and we had ships in the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea, bickering with Iran.
a lot of other nations got involved right away and it really seemed like Nuclear Holocaust was inevitable.
it was one of the most perilous episodes in modern times!
we truly were on the verge of killing ourselves out, completely!

Eventually things cooled down, a little, and after ten years it was all over and so was the heavy cloud of dread that hung over the world during the cold war.

but if they had not of cooled down...it would not have mattered!
there was no way we were going to be permitted to do ourselves in like that.
at least not with nuclear weapons.
they might have flown but they would have been duds.

our "guardians" are very concerned and attentive over us - some might think of them as angels, or ancestors, or extra-terrestrials, whatever.
they have the ability to command matter with their mind and so when vessels are needed, they manifest themselves as craft. the sightings at Bentwaters were very intriguing and mysterious, and the craft that was examined close-up did not seem to have any entrance/exit.
it had strange hieroglyphic type writing on the outside - it was a perfectly equilateral triangle.
i get the impression that in those kind of crafts, such as triangles with 3 lights, 1 to each corner, that there are three entities working as one to accomplish whatever it is they have set out to do.

there must be some sort of physical requirement to produce the light that seems to be the method for disarming these weapons, making the craft a necessary part of the plan.
or it might be somehow to do with crossing from one dimension to another, if that's what is taking place.

they have been doing this ever since the end of WWII and they will continue to protect us in this fashion until we grow up enough to see the futility and tragedy in our penchant for war....
these are the TRUE "powers that be"!!!
forces of higher benefit and altruism rather than small minded greedy mortals hiding as the so-called illuminati!
they have no power to make nuclear war with each other, at all!
the Bentwaters incident is not isolated nor is it confined just to the US and the UK.
no one gets left out - all countries with nuclear weapons are equally disabled!
no playing favorites, no taking sides, no negotiating!
our caretakers are taking care of all us, equally and justly!
not as nations and factions but as one family, one race!

i think the tables are about to be turned, my friends!
i truly do!
we don't have to be hostages to fear and uncertainty, at the mercy of our capricious and very un-wise, often dimly lit, world leaders!
let them argue and if it gets heated, they can always have a paintball war.

So I guess the rules of this thread is to pretend that Kingston George never was there, or later wrote his accounts of the incident and its prosaic explanation? Fine with me -- you guys go on, march boldly forward, eyes and minds firmly shut tight! Off we go......................

Originally posted by Kandinsky
Why the hell has my month old thread gone top of 'My ATS?'

i started another thread about the same thing - didn't see your thread because i didn't search for the right words!

but i think it is a very important story, myself.

i re-posted my initial post in my now defunct thread on this thread, a little bit higher in the column - it was yesterday or the day before.

reply to post by JimOberg
George provided an alternative explanation for the incident and one worth taking seriously. Jacobs and Mansmann are also credible.

Jacobs and George offer opposing accounts. The difference between them is Mansmann's supporting letters for Jacobs' version of events.

Whilst George offers a prosaic explanation, a question remains...why did Mansmann publicly agree and support Jacobs' claims of a saucer-shaped craft?

If you can remove the credibility of Mansmann's account, it reverts to one interpretation against another. Without Mansman, George's account would be the more likely.

Funny how you can go years and never put two and two together isn't it? Not long after this supposed incident the British have a rocket launch at Woomera, Australia*cancelled* because of the intrusion of a UFO and possibly its' occupants. We know this happened due to the Solway Firth photograph being studied by the MOD and Jenny Randles finding a file referring it to the intelligence community and asking. Is the figure in the Solway Firth picture the same as the one seen at Woomera?

Here again, it is know for sure, that film exists of the failed firing, but the MOD has only lost one set of launch footage...guess which one?

reply to post by FireMoon
You make an interesting link to the two stories. The Solway Spaceman has been held as a hoax or some kind of misidentification for years. It's a puzzling looking thing.

The Aussie test flight that got linked to the image is a whole other matter. The cancellation of a Blue Streak rocket due to two large figures in the testing range and the sighting of a UFO appears to be public record.

Solway Spaceman & Blue Streak Rockets

reply to post by Kandinsky


i thought you might like to read this article by Robert Hastings about the recent National Press Club UFO Nukes conference and the attempted "push back" by the CSI Skeptical Inquirer debunkers. Hastings discusses the Vandenburg incident and how Oberg fits into the picture. LOL cheers !

Skeptical Inquirer is published by the group Committee for Skeptical Inquiry (CSI) which used to be the Committee for the Scientific Investigations of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP). As I discovered years ago, the organization has some rather interesting and largely-unpublicized connections with the US government's nuclear weapons program--although one will have to look really hard to find any information relating to that.

After Bob Jacobs went public with the UFO shoot-down story, Oberg wrote to him, chastising Jacobs for revealing top secret information. In his MUFON UFO Journal article, Jacobs wrote that after he broke his silence, ‘I was contacted by a variety of investigators, buffs, cranks, proponents and detractors alike. James Oberg, a frequent mouthpiece for certain NASA projects and self-styled UFO Debunker wrote to disparage my story and to ask provocatively, ‘Since you obviously feel free to discuss top secret UFO data, what would you be willing to say about other top secret aspects of the Atlas warhead which you alluded to briefly...?’ I told Mr. Oberg where to put his misplaced cynicism.’

www.theufochronicles.com...

Disclosure Conference, National Press Club 27 Sept 2010

An excellent thread, Kandinsky.

Having reflected on all this for some time, I suspect that, as Jim Oberg hinted, there may be many layers of deception here.

George's command of detail, and his obvious technical mastery, suggests that his version is probably correct.

Mannsman and Jacobs were probably nudged towards the ufo interpretation by clever manipulation, possibly even by supplying them with false information. When they innocently swallowed the bait, this served not only to provide a useful smokescreen at the time, but by discrediting ufo researchers like Hastings who accepted their version, it may have fulfilled a long-term goal of the disinformers.

It may well be that not only Jacobs, Mannsman and Hastings, but even George, Oberg and Printy have been used by others in an extraordinarily tangled web of deceit.

Without any proof this is just another interesting story. I'm not trying to say it didn't happen but many people make their living as "story tellers". What bothers me is the bandanna around his neck. Not saying that makes him out to be a liar but still it makes me a little suspicious about his credibility. What is he hiding with it?

Originally posted by Unknown Origin
What bothers me is the bandanna around his neck. Not saying that makes him out to be a liar but still it makes me a little suspicious about his credibility. What is he hiding with it?

an electromagnetic device which manipulates his vocal cords in a highjackin manner and forcing him to repeat whatever is projected through the device....

Originally posted by queenannie38
our "guardians" are very concerned and attentive over us - some might think of them as angels, or ancestors, or extra-terrestrials, whatever.

Well, if they are, they're oddly selective. They'll disable a nuke here and there temporarily when it's not even clear that anything would have happened with them, anyway. But if a tsunami is going to kill nearly 250,000 people, they'll just let that happen. Or if Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot are going to kill millions, they're not all that interested in that, either. In any event, there are still plenty of nukes waiting patiently that the UFOs haven't disabled. What about those?

It's sort of like those "miracle" babies who land in treetops unharmed during a tornado. Yeah, it's a miracle for them, but I guess there weren't enough miracles available to save the other 250 people crushed to death by their own homes.

Anyway, there are all kinds of funky things that can go wrong with missile launches, and even a super telescope is not going to be able to clearly see what's going on. Could it be possible that the film of the Vandenberg event actually showed some kind of system malfunction that blew propellant out of the side of the rocket in disc form, that might be interpreted as a flying saucer? I wonder. The film would have been confiscated either way, although I don't know why the CIA would be interested in it? Was there possible foreign intervention?

Just wondering "out loud."

You should check out the youtube video of this being presented on Larry King live with bill nye. Bill nye gets burned pretty good haha.

reply to post by Kandinsky


We know light is not that powerful.
Thus the beam is of the form to cause illumination during its passage.
Perhaps there is force in the beam as well a electrical content.
Highly agitated atoms being brought into illumination by electrical
waves is well known.
So electrical beam from an electrical craft seems to be the cause.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


These plasma references are way off base.
It is just illumination and not any condensed atomic flow.
More dis information so for UFO beams substitute pressure wave
illumination for plasma beam.
How else would Walton be lifted up if not in the wake of the pressure
wave of the landing ship.
The light in the beam caused by one way flow AC flow and not plasma
that would have burnt up the ground on landing.