The Speed Of Gravity - Why Einstein Was Wrong

reply to post by Phractal Phil


Thanks for your thoughts...

And....yes, OP means "Original Post"

P.S. where is the OP anyways....haven't heard nothing in a couple pages

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Software_Pyrate]

reply to post by Phractal Phil


On May 16, a Chinese team reported success with "teleportation" via quantum entanglement of photons at a distance of 16 km. Their report is available for $18 from Nature Photonics.

See other media hoopla on the subject.

If they have achieved actual FTL communication, my experiment should be next.

reply to post by Phractal Phil


The Wikipedia page lists more ether experiments.

This would pull us into higher and higher orbits and eject us from the vicinity of the sun in a fairly short time.

Nope. The Sun's gravity is already in place.

When you take this fact into consideration, there is no barn paradox.

I don't see why that matters. Perhaps if you explain it in detail.

reply to post by Phractal Phil


It's not a defeatist attitude; suppose you find the cause of gravity; then what? what causes the cause of gravity?

As you can see, the amount of questions that can be posed is infinite.

reply to post by sirnex


I never meant that darkness is an object or it consists of something.

Perhaps a better definition is this:

the rate of change from light to darkness is defined by the speed of light.

reply to post by Phractal Phil


However, said teleportation is not actual teleportation and cannot be applied to macroscopic objects.

Originally posted by masterp
reply to post by sirnex

 

I never meant that darkness is an object or it consists of something.

Perhaps a better definition is this:

the rate of change from light to darkness is defined by the speed of light.

OK, so the speed of light is the speed of light, but isn't that circular and just plain silly? Your still attempting to describe a state of absence as a thing that can be acted upon by light. Darkness is just an absence, there is no rate of change with darkness. It doesn't exist as anything that *can* change.

Originally posted by masterp
reply to post by Phractal Phil

 

However, said teleportation is not actual teleportation and cannot be applied to macroscopic objects.

Which is precisely why I put teleportation between quotation marks. They're sensationalizing their report by applying the word, "teleportation" to a quantum bit of information. Not even the energy is transferred at superluminal speed.

reply to post by sirnex


I am sorely tempted to click "ignore" for the first time since jointing ATS. Please stop arguing with yourself over this trivial matter, and get back to the topic at hand.

Ok i came in here to check on progress and see this argument is going no where. First the absence of light is darkness. Cant see how this became an argument it doesnt have a speed it doesnt travel no light tada darkness.

Now as for gravity we know mass has a direct relation to gravity the bigger the mass the stronger the gravity. So in effect gravity is a side effect of mass it is not a force! Now the only theory that explains this side effect happens to be Albert Einsteins. He treats it as effect mass has on space time. Now heres something you may not know GPS depends on Einstiens theory and proves it to be correct. So next time your using your GPS thank Einstien.

Originally posted by Phractal Phil
reply to post by sirnex

 

I am sorely tempted to click "ignore" for the first time since jointing ATS. Please stop arguing with yourself over this trivial matter, and get back to the topic at hand.

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware the topic of this thread was about FTL communication.

Yea, how about *WE* get back on topic about the speed of gravity?

Moron.

reply to post by sirnex


Quantum entanglement is not that far off topic.

If FTL communication via quantum entanglement is as fast as it is purported to be, then it probably has the same speed as gravity. As the original post showed, Van Flandern calculated that speed to be greater than 20 billion c. This is practically indistinguishable from instantaneous. In other words, the sending and receiving are practically simultaneous events.

Relativity tells us that which is simultaneous in one reference frame cannot be simultaneous in another reference frame. Both quantum entanglement and gravity must have a certain finite speed in all directions relative to the ether. In all other reference frames, they have different speeds in different directions.

It is claimed that FTL communication has been achieved via quantum entanglement. If so, it can be used to prove the existence of the ether. It can prove that that the ether is a preferred reference frame for both quantum entanglement and for gravity.

If gravity has different speeds in different direction for a galaxy moving thru the ether, what are the implications? Can that somehow account for galaxy rotation curves? How will that knowledge affect our estimates of dark matter?

Nevertheless, I shall look for a thread on the subject of quantum entanglement and FTL communication. If I don't find one, I might start my own. Perhaps there is a thread out there on the subject of the speed of dark, as well.

reply to post by Phractal Phil

Quantum entanglement is not that far off topic.

It's two separate unrelated topics.

If FTL communication via quantum entanglement is as fast as it is purported to be, then it probably has the same speed as gravity.

Probably has? Get back to me when you have more concrete evidence rather than pure conjecture. This thread isn't about your views of FTL communication, so how about you think before you get on someone else for also discussing an unrelated topic?

As the original post showed, Van Flandern calculated that speed to be greater than 20 billion c.

Right, as the OP discussed, *the speed of gravity*.

This is practically indistinguishable from instantaneous.

Yea, if your within a 5BLY radius of the sending station. Instantaneous is not really really fast if within range, so let's not use sensationalized terminology to describe something that is only conjecture and unproven.

In other words, the sending and receiving are practically simultaneous events.

Try telling that to two people on opposite ends of the universe. That's only a 156BLY distance between the two. Signals would have a delay of roughly 8 seconds, rounding up of course. That would kind of tick me off if your selling me a communications device that is purportedly 'instantaneous' or nearly indistinguishable.

Both quantum entanglement and gravity must have a certain finite speed in all directions relative to the ether.

You don't really understand Quantum Entanglement that well do you? There is no speed of communication at all. There is no carrier signal dispensing information about the other particles state. You can't even send information through Quantum Entanglement. It's all utterly moot to the speed of gravity.

It is claimed that FTL communication has been achieved via quantum entanglement.

Sources, as this would defy physics and we would need a complete rewrite.

reply to post by sirnex


It's not silly. The change from light to darkness is an event. The discussion drifted to this due an analogy with gravity: when matter goes absent, gravity goes absent too.

The rate of the change from gravity to absence of gravity is the speed of light, just like for the change from darkness to light.

If an object like the Sun was removed instantly from the universe, then we would feel the sun's gravity for 8 minutes. We would also see the Sun for 8 minutes.

If gravity change was instantaneous, we would feel the Sun was absent but we would see the Sun until 8 minutes passed. This would open the door paradoxes.

reply to post by sirnex

Yea, how about *WE* get back on topic about the speed of gravity?

Moron.

All,

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