Discussion About Deja vu And What Causes This Strange Phenomenon.

Originally posted by RedCairo
Scoffers would say that a dated notarized with a big long list of specifics ought to be provided for proof, and perhaps so. But in my life, I've had a lot of precog dreams, since childhood in fact, and most of them are either (a) trivial daily life, or (b) symbolic stuff I understand only just before, during or after its occurring in the world, or (c) partial stuff that has some info and not other stuff, or some valid info and some not.

Hey RC,

I have been busy working so could only lurk on the forum. I can relate to the symbolic precognition, which is another avenue of the phenomena that certainly makes for an interesting discussion as the dream symbolism does not make sense up until the actual event occurs. This symbolism is again potentially a defense mechanism or some kind of perception/awareness deficiency. All (a through c) I can relate to and even more.

I have far more examples of symbolic precognition then literal precognition. Literal as you and many here will be familiar with is when you have this first-person vantage point in the dream.

What you see, feel, think and even experience emotionally all actualizes in physical reality some time later. I akin it to a TV re-run where you first watched it in the dream only to have it play back in "reality".

The only other experience that I have had that rivals the literal precognitive dream is a literal lucid precognitive dream, where in the dream I am awake and aware that I am dreaming, only to have that particular experience come true.

It is from this vantage point that I have concluded at least to myself that a process we have come to know as dreaming has a direct link to what we experience as physical reality. From this vantage point I have even induced changes to the dream pre-actualization and have had those changes come true.

This is something that very few people I have met in life agree on also experiencing it. That said, having changes I consciously and willingly knew I had influenced on what at first was a classic lucid dream, and to have these changes actualize here in this "reality" certainly finalized the evidence I needed to satisfy my curiosity about the relationship between precognitive dreams and the reality they represent.

This thread has become an excellent example how a grass-roots forum can bring together total strangers who embark on amazing taboo experiences only to find several others also affirming similar experiences.

Very exciting stuff.

i have experiensed a hole 5 minute Deja vu two times. I have also had many minor ones but these 5 minutes experienses were really wierd.

I kept telling my self "i know this" "i recognise this" while talking to other people and i almost knew when this experiense would stop. It felt as if i was going on default while observing my self at an subconcsiuous level.

I must say that this is a very impressive series of comments and responses. Looking through some of the more recent posts I am keen to comment on one or two.

JUVEOUS: Your "Smoking Gun" question is, in my opinion, a perfectly reasonable one. I have long searched for such evidence myself and I ahve, in my posession, a few examples that really are difficult to dismiss. For example I have a dated fax message sent by a member of my FORUM to British Airways categorically stating that a concorde was going to crash and that it would be in a "foreign" location, i.e. not in the United Kingdom. The pesron who sent it had experienced an extremely vivid dream whereby he "saw" the whole incident. A few weeks later the first ever crash of a concorde took place in Paris. I have spoken to the person who sent it (a university lecturer in law by the way) and he mentioned his "dream" to his family and his fellow lecturers at the university. This I have varified. Also in his dream he was able to identify the reason for the crash. He saw another plane take off before (correctly identifying the livery) and noticed that something fell off this plane. This was what caused the accident involving the next plane (the concorde). He also sensed that the people on board the plane were mostly German (again, this was correct).
This guy regularly has these dreams and he reports them to me.

A few weeks ago another member of my FORUM sent me a mobile phone text in which he describes a dream in which he saw a wodden bridge surrounded by flames. Three days later this very scene was broadcast on BBC television when they showed the destruction by fire of an ancient temple in China. In the foreground was an old wooden bridge!

These are but two of the many "smoking guns" that I have collected and will continue to collect until we get the "classic" that will once and for all prove that precognition is not just a natural phenomenon but also a very common one.

RC: Your comment about "living your life again" is exactly what I suggest is taking place. In my books I call this "hallucination" the "Bohmian IMAX" and I present evidence from neurology and consciousness studies as to how this may be proved scientifically.

REDCAIRO: An excellent point that we sometimes only recognise a precognitive dream coming true in "real life" as it starts. I suggest that this is a protection mechanism. For most people this "Type One DV" as I term it, is simply an odd recognition of a place or circumstance. A Type 2 DV is experienced usually (but not exclusively) by individuals whose neurological processes are modified by damage or neurotransmitter activity.

I am really enjoying reading these postings. May I thank my fellow FORUM member YOUAREDREAMING for pointing this out. I am hopeful that more members of my FORUM will involve themselves on this fascinating, and amazingly positive, discussion thread.

Anthony Peake

reply to post by Vesica


Yes, I have had what I believe to be similar experiences I don't know that it is a full five minutes, it is prolonged, but it always seems to be conversational. Meaning that I will dream of a particular conversation with a particular person and it is 100% what happens, to where I know what they will say before they say it.

Too bad I have no control over it or that it is never anything particularly noteworthy or beneficial. It just seems to be random events, without any real significance, that will occur in my life.

Side note here, one evening one of my children was doing that silly bloody mary thing in the mirror after I went to bed. That evening I had the most vivid dream of fighting off some sort of spirit in my home that was particularly attracted to the same child. The dream shook me so much that the following morning when we woke up I told my spouse right when we woke up.

Over breakfast the same child fessed up and told me that during the night he woke up to use the washroom and wanted to try it because everyone at school was talking about it. After a few times saying the name he just got scared and went back to bed, eventhough nothing had happened, he felt funny, scared and went back to his room, he was around 8 or 9 at the time.

At which both me and my spouse turned white as sheets, before I told the children to never, ever try that sort of thing. Ironic being as a didn't buy into the validity of that particular story previously, but at the time I simply couldn't discredit the similarity of the events.

reply to post by itladian01


I wouldn't say former, I still lurk on your forum. I usually check it out once a week or so but haven't really had anything of merit to add. I'm the Internet version of Gandalf, who just pops in once and a while.

Technically, I don't have any time for forums at the moment because my work load is very heavy... speaking of which... back to the grind!

ALOSTSOUL: Thank you so much for starting this thread. In my opinion your review of the various theories that relate to the deja phenomenon was excellent. You may, however, be interested to know that recent research conducted by Dr. Akira O’Conner of the psychology depart at Leeds University has put the Efron interpretation into question. Dr. O’Conner works with Dr. Chris Moulin in a small team researching the deja phenomenon. Dr. O’Conner has shown that individuals that have been born blind experience “deja senti” (already heard). Now the Efron interpretation depends upon the duplication of the visual signal being received by the temporal lobe (significant in itself with regard to my position on the role of the temporal lobes in the whole deja experience). The neurological pathways for hearing do not work in this way so, according to Efron, a déjà vu (already seen) can be explained but not deja senti. This suggests that the whole Efron solution is now questionable.

Indeed I am in full agreement with both you and NUNYA13 that déjà vu may be related in some way with the idea of parallel universes as suggested by the Everett’s “Many-Worlds Interpretation” of quantum physics (MWI), and an even more challenging version, the “Many-Minds Interpretation” (MMI). In my own books I suggest just how this mechanism may work neurologically. Indeed the work of Dr. Stuart Hameroff of Arizona State University and Professor Roger Penrose of Cambridge University suggests that within very small structures in the brain called microtubules quantum effects influence consciousness and by implication perception. Indeed I take this one step further and suggest that there are trillions of universes all containing a version of each conscious being and that each conscious being follows a different life-path. Some are subtly different whereas others are radically different. Each choice brings about a different outcome. (I suspect that this will be the outcome of the present TV series “Flashforward”). A further interesting development along these lines is the “Quantum Suicide” thought experiment proposed by Professor Max Tegmark.

All these new ideas suggest one thing; that the deja experience may be a clue that will give us a deeper understanding of the relationship between consciousness and the external, observed, universe.

We are living in very exciting times.

For any of you that may be interested in my “angle” on this, I will be involved in a live web TV broadcast this coming Saturday (22nd May) evening at 11:59 Eastern Time. This will clearly be broadcast at different times depending where in the world you are located. For example I am located in Liverpool in the UK so the time for me will be 05:00 am on Sunday morning (23rd May). Full details of this can be found on my website at:

www.anthonypeake.com...

It is my intention to focus in on the deja elements of my overall hypothesis, what has now become know as “Cheating The Ferryman”.

Give it a watch and make up your own mind as to whether I am on to something or not.

QUISOA: Your suggestion that autism may be related in some way to the deja phenomenon is, to my mind, a very valid observation. In my work I have discussed altered states of awareness with experts on autism and parents of autistic children. In a recent BBC broadcast (BBC Merseyside) I suggested that autism, aspergers and the other aspects of the autism spectrum show that the brain as many “abilities” and that the “alternate wiring” of individuals who are diagnosed with these “illnesses” opens up other skills and perceptions. For example “Savants Syndrome” as highlighted in the movie “Rain Man” which, as many of you know, was based on the life of the late Kim Peek of Salt Lake City. I have witnessed just how amazing these skills can be. But I have also had reports that autism can also give an ability to perceive the future. An associate of mine (and member of my FORUM) has a profoundly autistic son who has shown, on many occasions, an ability to perceive things before they happen. We are sure that this is because his mind processes time in a different way. Indeed my associate has suggested that his son exists in a timeless state, or more accurately, a state whereby the concepts of past-present-future does not exist.

If this is the case then the deja experience of people on the autistic spectrum is related to, but ultimately different to, deja experiences of the general population.

MYRETALES INSTINCT: What a tragic story. In my writing I suggest that such dreams are there as a warning to, maybe, have the dreamer take action to change the event “this time”. I propose that we have all lived this life many times and that part of us ”remembers” that past life. Imagine that in the movie Groundhog Day that Conners lives not just the same day over and over again but his whole life. He will know, as he does in the movie, what happens next. In the movie he takes actions to change the events and, in effect, create a new universe that will evolve from that change. My hypothesis presents evidence for such a proposal. If I am right then the part of you that remembered the tragic death of your daughter attempted to pre-warn you in a dream in the hope that you may be able to intervene in some way. Now, and this is the important point, in this universe you didn’t manage to do it. But next time you will, and she will live. Indeed, and I know this may sound really weird, it is highly possible, that she did survive the crash in her universe (this scenario is explained by something called the “Quantum Suicide” thought experiment of Max Tegmark. You will find a whole article on this on WIKI). This is because in each of our universes we survive all incidents that may kill us. I suggest that every single person reading this post has survived dices (die?) with death in their lives, and yet they are still here to read these words. This is because this (each) universe needs an observer to continue and in your universe you are that observer. This is not as mad as it seems. Particle physicists reading this will immediately recognise that I am describing the implications of something called the “Copenhagen Interpretation”. Originally suggested way back in the 1930’s this suggests that an act of observation brings particles such as electrons and photons from a wave of probability into a “solid” piece of matter. Indeed recent experiments in Vienna have shown that atoms, and large ones at that, also come into existence as an “act of observation” collapses the “wave function”. All very weird but also scientifically true and proven many, many times by experimentation.

As I mentioned in an earlier post I will be discussing this in some detail tomorrow night on live web TV broadcasting out of Florida, USA. Full details can be found at my FORUM at:
www.anthonypeake.com...

HAVOK: You focus in on a fascinating element of what I term “Type 2 DV Experiences”. A “Type 1” involves a vague feeling of recognition but with no precognitive elements. A “Type 2” on the other hand involves not just a vague recognition but an awareness of what is about to happen next. A classic example of this was phoned in by a listener to my fortnightly slot on BBC Merseyside over her in the UK a few weeks ago. I was talking about migraine, specifically “classic migraine” which includes a pre-migraine sensation known as the “aura”. Now I know from personal experience as a migrainer that one of the elements of the aura “altered state” is strong deja sensations. I get them but they, unfortunately, always manifest as a “Type 1”. This caller however, as part of his migraine aura experienced an amazing “Type 2” that stunned him. He explained to me, live on radio, that he was watching television with his wife when he started feeling an aura approaching (usually a tingling feeling in the fingers or lips and/or the development of a blind spot in the field of vision, technically known as a “scotoma”). However something odd also happened; he knew in advance what the actors on the TV were about to say. He was perceiving the future, about one or two seconds in advance of when the events actually took place. In a very disturbed state he got up to the window and “saw” in his mind’s eye two man walk pass the window. Two seconds later the same men walked past in “normal reality”. He then went upstairs and realised that his window of precognition was getting wider. He knew the exact words that his wife would say to him as he came back down into the living room. He wrote them down on a piece of paper and entered the room. She spoke to him and, without a word, he handed her the paper. He was totally right, word for word!

Now this man could simply be lying, after all he was on live radio. By why bother? His tone was that of a person who had long been puzzled by this event and that my hypothesis, as I presented it on the show, had explained to him a possible solution.

Indeed such short-term precognitive abilities have been measured in a scientific laboratory. Dr. Dean Radin and Dr. Dick Bierman. They showed that their subjects could monitor the contents of their immediate future by measuring the skin conductivity. It is known that this changes when a person sees or hears something that disturbs them. The subjects were shown a series of photographs. Most of them were pleasant but some were not. In each case the subjects skin conductivity changed before the photograph was shown. It was clearly shown that some part of our subconscious is aware of what is about to happen next. It is just that usually our everyday consciousness is unaware of it. I suggest that under certain conditions, neurologically induced or otherwise, we perceive this short-term precognition and experience it as a deja sensation

For those of you interested in checking this out this is the original paper:
(Bierman, D. J., & Radin, D. I. (1997). Anomalous anticipatory response on randomized future conditions. Perceptual and Motor Skills, 84, 689–690

and published in a later book:

Bierman, Dick J.; Dean Radin (1999). "Conscious and Anomalous Nonconscious Processes: A reversal of the arrow of time?". in Stuart R. Hameroff, Alfred W. Kaszniak. Toward a science of consciousness III: the third Tucson discussions and debates. MIT Press. pp. 367–386.

My own experiences with Deja Vu is that they are remembered dreams. I actually remember alot of my deja vu experiences and when they occur its like i know exactly what is going to happen a split second before it happens. Yes this can be explained but the brain wiring thing but i also becoe extremely aware of everything around me. Its almost like time slows down and i am aware of every little thing in the picture. Even the smallest things in front of me i am aware of. So my perception becomes extremely heightened. The weird thing is i will immediately afterwards remember the event as a dream i have had.

Now this isnt always the case and for the episodes i have where i have to actually do something to stop the episode, i am sure its a brain wiring thing or chemical thing in the brain going on. I get stuck in the deja bu episodes and have to do something kinda like unexpected to stop it. I know that sounds weird but its the best way i can explain it. Anyways i have had them since i was very young. Like 6 or 7 i think. I told my mom i had these episodes and didnt know it was deja vu then. She told me i was crazy and i shouldnt talk about it lol.

Anyways i absofrigginlutely hate them when they happen. It serves no purpose at all except to make me crazy.

Fizzy,

I am sure that Dr. Funkhouser would soundly agree with your interpretation that a deja vu is a remembered dream. This does answer so many questions about how it is that the recognation is initially vague and then comes more into focus as the dream is re-experienced and more of the circumstances unfold.

I would add that this is very much in keeping with the precognitive dream theories of J.W.Dunne. Dunne suggested that there are various "times" and these times are different. His logic was a simple one. When we say that "time flows" what we are suggesting is that it flows like a river flows. However the difference is that a river has banks whereby we can measure the speed of flow. We look at the river then look at the banks either side. Of course one could argue that the river is static and it is the banks that are flowing past. That is "relativity" and such an observation is central to understanding Einstein and his revolutionary physics, but that is an aside. But time is not like a river in that it has no banks. It cannot be measured against anything other than itself. We measure time in minutes, seconds and hours but these are not metrics in the way an inch or a metre is. An inch can be found on a tape measure or ruler and this is the tool that is used to measure the size of an object. But that tool has an objective reality in three dimensional space outside of the thing being measured. Time measurement is different. A minute is a subjective perception of duration that is part of time itself. You count sixty seconds by the sweep of a second hand across a clock face, but the second hand is only measuring duration, not time itself. We can only ever have a minute of a minute or an hour of an hour. In other words, as those who have seen me lecture know, I point out that time is the only thing I know that is measured by itself.

So Dunne suggested that there must be a second time "Time 2"by which "Time 1" is measured. Time 2 is, if you like, the equivalent of the river bank that Time 1 flows and by which the speed of flow can be objectively measured. Dunne then suggests that in order to measure the flow of Time 2 we need a "Time 3" and so ad-infinitum and creating what is known as an "infinite regress". However Dunne also suggested that for each version of time there exists an "observer". The observer is a conscious being and each consciousness is spread across all the other "observers" - "Observer 2" in "Time 2" and "Observer 3" in "Time 3".

Now this is where it gets clever. In sleep states consciousness slips from a waking "Observer 1" state to that of an "Observer 2" that exists in a different time ( "Time 2"). As such in this time (s)he can see further into the future of "Time 1". I explained this in a short film made by the National Theatre in London last year. This can be viewed at:

www.nationaltheatre.org.uk...

(to watch the film go to the middle right hand of the screen where you will see the words "discover:more". Underneath is "•play now documentary". Just click on this and the film should start).

So when we are asleep part of us (our "Higher Self", Dunne's "Observer 2" - the being I call "The Daemon") "sees" the future from a higher position within "Time 2". These images get mixed up with the normal dream "material" and end up garbled and symbolic but sometimes our Lower Self (Observer 1 or, as I call it, "The Eidolon") remembers the dream elements as they occur in "Time 1". That is a deja experience ...

[edit on 21-5-2010 by itladian01]

[edit on 21-5-2010 by itladian01]

I think "déja-vu" comes from dreams.
like you've already programmed your day or it's some kind of writen destiny.

If you dont have much "déja-vu" experiences you've overcome your destiny

If you could remember it when you wake up it can become premonitions.

just a tought.

oh i'm sorry i didnt read the upper posts, but i believe it right then

[edit on 28-6-2010 by SSimon]

reply to post by SSimon


I have had a couple deja vu experiences or what I think are quite similar.

The greatest one that really spun me for a loop and got me thinking I will share with you.

I used to work at a coffee shop doing an extremely repetitive job. I worked the 5am-1pm shift. I would usually go to bed thinking about work and then consequently dream of it. I never really paid any attention to my dreams because I dream almost every night and they are quite vivid and one would go crazy trying to interpret them.

I worked this job for maybe a year and then went to school, left and started work at a gas station while I was deciding what to do next. This was in 2007.

I woke up one morning and remembered my dream very well, but didn’t think anything of it. I went to work at 7am at the gas station, grabbed the newspapers as usual and started waiting for the early morning rush. The gas station also has a Tim Hortons and it is in the suburbs so it is pretty busy that time of morning.

It is hard to explain what happened in words here, but at around 9am one of the Tim Hortons employees was saying something to a customer and my head snapped up because of what she said, not because of what she said but because it was in my dream the night before.

Whatever the employee said started a chain reaction that lasted about 5 minutes and my dream happened EXACTLY as I had remembered it. It was bizarre, I got a cold sweat, I felt like I was going to faint. I never sat down when dealing with customers as I found it a little unprofessional and it’s a gas station - I don’t want to get robbed sitting down. But I had to sit down. I usually greeted people but I couldn’t speak - not a WORD - I felt paralyzed. My face must have been as white as a ghost because I got some weird looks - I cashed out 4 customers in that space of time. After my last customer left I ran to the bathroom and had to sit on the toilet with my head between my legs for a minute to gain my composure. I didn’t really feel like I had any control over what was happening. The newspapers I went back to suddenly weren’t so interesting anymore.

All of the details are not here obviously - but that is the gist of it.

I thought about it a lot and I came to this conclusion, but I am open to anything that makes sense.

I think it is about probabilities. There is a probability I will dream of flying pigs tonight, but not a high probability that it will actually happen in “reality”. But I dreamt of extremely ordinary things such as an exchange between my coworkers and the immediate events after, which had a probability of happening and did.

I don’t know if that makes sense. I may try and gather my thoughts and think about starting a thread about this.

My two cents on deja vu and dreams.

[edit on 28-6-2010 by worlds_away]

Funny how you say more and more people are experincing this more then usual because it happened to me more as a kid, then as an adult. I had it atleast 3 times a week if not more as a child. I remember being three and following my mom around the house as she was doing laundry and I stopped and looked around and she was wearing the same thing, and we were in the same room and it almost felt like I had dream that was materialized right in front of me. I even told my mom "I had a dream about this." My mom asked what? And I said THIS! Your doing laundry in the same room and clothes and Im saying what Im saying now" and my mom laughed and said oh that just dejavu. Once when I was eleven I told my dad that sometimes I have dreams that come true. and he laughed and said well tell me when you have dream of the winning lotto numbers. But it has gotten less and less as Ive been getting older. I kind of miss how often it used to happen because to me when you have dejavu I believe its your soul knowing your on the right track. I will get them now about once every 3 to 6 months... just my thoughts..

I just came across this thread and was grateful to do so. I've experience deja vu all of my life, but since I started this current job in August 2009 it has been daily. There have even been a few days when it was almost constant. To try and explain it to myself I declared that it means I am exactly where I am supposed to be right now and the almost constant sensation of deja vu is telling me that what I want is coming very soon.

How true this is or is not, I honestly don't know. But I felt this was the right place to at least share. Thank you for this terrific thread

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming


The only other experience that I have had that rivals the literal precognitive dream is a literal lucid precognitive dream, where in the dream I am awake and aware that I am dreaming, only to have that particular experience come true.

Me too dreaming! Ive had that my whole life! I use to have that so much I thought I was crazy by the time I was 13! LOL ....but it doenst happen as much now. But that is a good way to describe it! Good job

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by Vesica

 

Yes, I have had what I believe to be similar experiences I don't know that it is a full five minutes, it is prolonged, but it always seems to be conversational. Meaning that I will dream of a particular conversation with a particular person and it is 100% what happens, to where I know what they will say before they say it.

Too bad I have no control over it or that it is never anything particularly noteworthy or beneficial. It just seems to be random events, without any real significance, that will occur in my life.

.

Yes I agree. When I I was a kid would tell my parents how often it would happen they would ask if I ever see anything important happen like earthquakes or hurricanes Ect Ect and The only thing I could tell them was I dont know when its gonna happen till it happens, and its usually just a certain conversation at a certain place, during the same time of day, wearing the same clothes. LOL Too bad I cant dream of the lotto numbers my luck I would dream it and not even know it till they announced the numbers! LOL

reply to post by StarrGazer25


Absolutely, lotto numbers would be welcomed, lol.

Unfortunately, my most recent experience with it was the new Futurama episode (lol, the irony literally just hit as I typed that). Anyway, I kept asking if everyone was sure that it was the new season premiere because I had absolutely seen that episode before, unfortunately I ruined the first one because I was hell bent on proving that I had seen it before, the second one I had kept my mouth shut, even though I saw that one too, or most of it anyway. I really wish it could be something more useful, anything cure a disease, win a bunch of money, or something, why is it a robot episode of futurama? Whatever.

Originally posted by StarrGazer25
Me too dreaming! Ive had that my whole life! I use to have that so much I thought I was crazy by the time I was 13! LOL ....but it doenst happen as much now. But that is a good way to describe it! Good job

If you are having lucid precognitive dreams, I would love to hear more about this particular type of precognitive dreaming, if you can write a summary or expand on a few key experiences that would be great!

Have you ever changed a dream and those changes actualized here?

I'm sure everyone has experienced dejavu at least once in their lifetime. Being a "Fringe" fan I love Walter's explanation of this phenomenon in the episode "The Road Not Taken":

WALTER. Most of us experience life as a linear progression, yes? Like this. [Draws a straight line with chalk on a blackboard] But, this is an illusion, because every day, life presents us with an array of choices. As a result, life should look more like this: [Adds two lines to the line like a fork ---