9/11 The Pentagon “Where are the FACTS!

reply to post by weedwhacker


It is obvious that is one of the compressor hubs (which one it is would be stamped on the shaft assembly that it is still attached to) and as there is no clear photo taken of the shaft your guess is as good as mine; the Turbine Hub is much larger in size therefore I would say it would not be a turbine hub; unless the engine was much smaller in size as well which again would not fit the diameter of the the RB-211; but, again we are only guessing at the exact information because the lack of clear evidence has not been presented; which is what I would like to see; and the area specifically that Jim was referring to was the slip sleeve cover (slips over the high pressure pipe) at the center of the hub (the design of the hub in the photos is not the same).

I have reviewed the information on the site you cited; I do not find their findings to be conclusive as they are using photographs taken at the scene and not test and analysis of the actual evidence collected at the crash site; call me a stickler for the facts but, I want to see the actual parts analyzed.

At least you are following a logical line of questions; I cannot say that for others trying to defend the Official Report.

I would simply like to see a real investigation done; and have those findings released to the public; I do not understand what the problem with that is exactly? can one of you explain to me why it should not be released?

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

reply to post by hooper


Do not; I repeat do not put words in my mouth! I have called no one a liar or for that matter have made claims to anything but, what is observable through the evidence photos at the scene.

I am not an expert in human remains; and will not attempt to play your ridiculous game of bait and switch; if you would like to discuss the matter at hand which is the photographic evidence of a reported RB-211; then you and I can continue otherwise go fight with some other individuals that want to debate you on bodies, explosives; free fall speeds, or anything else that is not held in a scientific manner.

Please try if you can to stick with the evidence that is viewable by the public; and the reported findings of that evidence.

Thank You

MolecularPHD

reply to post by MolecularPhD

I would simply like to see a real investigation done; and have those findings released to the public; I do not understand what the problem with that is exactly? can one of you explain to me why it should not be released?

A real investigation of what? The plane parts? In order to determine that they are in fact parts of plane? Really? You need this explained to you?

You claim to be a scientist. Yet your powers of observation seem to be rather myopic. These plane parts were not suddenly and inexplicably found in the Pentagon one morning. There is a whole host of predecessory events and facts that are directly related to this material. You seem to want to skip over all that and go right to making accusations. And yes, your calls for investigation are definetly accusatory. And this is not simply accusing persons of say, professional misconduct, but they are a direct accusation of complicity in a heinous act of mass murder.

Reputable persons have validated that these are the remains of Flight 77 as found in the rubble of the Pentagon together with the human remains of the victims of a criminal act. Your accusations, thus far, are based on the casual observation of one photo.

Your call for authentication, is in fact, an accusation of murder. Let that be perfectly clear.

reply to post by MolecularPhD



Well, zeroing in....

I still think you're talking apples and oranges, a bit...crosstalk with me.

the Turbine Hub is much larger in size therefore I would say it would not be a turbine hub;

Maybe we should get "Jim" in here?

No, a turbine is usually smaller than a compressor. Depends a great deal on each engine, and which stage we're talking about of course.

But, earlier, you referred to the photo as being a "compressor" hub disc....

RR has this neato video (not for the -535, alas...)

mwtraffic.ld.mediawave.co.uk...


BUT, now you are muddying the waters, and this is very poor form, indeed:

... unless the engine was much smaller in size as well which again would not fit the diameter of the the RB-211;

Well...

...but, again we are only guessing at the exact information because the lack of clear evidence has not been presented;

But, but, but...you seemed so sure...what was it you said? "That did it for me"??


Jim! Are you out there?

Oh...wait, now we're really zeroing in...

and the area specifically that Jim was referring to was the slip sleeve cover (slips over the high pressure pipe) at the center of the hub (the design of the hub in the photos is not the same).

Funny, the site I linked for you, and you tossed aside dismissively, says otherwise...

Jim!?

[edit on 12 May 2010 by weedwhacker]

Where is the video footage from all the camera's at the pentagon? I have only seen only 1. Im guessing there should be at least a couple more. The media had no problem showing the planes hit the towers.

reply to post by OthyArk9

Where is the video footage from all the camera's at the pentagon?

That, my friend, is yet another Internet Lie (or rather, more like an Internet Misconception).

There weren't that many cameras, especially focused on the walls (why would they be?)

ONE camera, not even a full 60 fps, at ONE of the gated entrances happened to aim just right, to catch THAT side of the building.

Ever BEEN to the Pentagon? Know where the "Main" entrance is? How about the Bus Terminal (hint, different sides). The Metro station is INSIDE, underneath.

I guarantee there are a LOT of cameras in there, and at the Bus Terminal, and probably at the Main Entrance side, tool....

That building is BIG!!!! The side that was hit wasn't heavily traveled, by pedestrians or vehicles.

Which leads me to WHY the terrorists probably chose that side....A) The Bus Terminal side didn't have any good vulnerability, and neither does the "Main Entrance" side, with its big staircases and abutments.

And, B)...the Columbia Pike highway made a good landmark to line up on, in flight, for the targeting approach portion.

reply to post by hooper


Plane parts yes; what that plane was is the question? If they are not parts from an RB-211 as stated then I would think we have a much larger problem to contend with as those were the engines on flight 77.

Do you have a problem verifying that those parts shown in photographic evidence were in fact from a RB-211?

You said they were verified by experts right; "WHO"? and what are their credentials that give them that authority exactly? Where is the complete analysis of their examination of that evidence and their report? which by the way would clear up any problems with the photographic evidence.

All of these would put an end to the bickering that is obviously from the fact of the lack of physical evidence reports being released to the public.

Want to try again?

Where are the photographs of NTSB along with the FAA reassembling the downed Aircraft to verify that it was flight 77?

And please, please do not bring up the finding of the black box again; I can send you one if you like.

You realize you have not answered any of the questions that I have posed; not one; nor have you provided one shred of evidence, you simply keep ignoring the questions altogether.

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

Originally posted by MolecularPhD

I so love this guy; lots of conjecture in his statements; first I never played the PHD card as you stated; I simply said as a scientist; if you have an obvious problem with that then so be it.
I am not an explosives expert and would never make assumptions about possible warheads, payloads, or the like; I can only compare the incident in question with the knowledge I do have in engineering and advanced engineering; having worked with many companies that do engineering in the field of Avionics.


MolecularPHD

Other than your signature, I agree that you "never played the PHD[sic] card." I had you pegged as an engineer, not a scientist, but I will allow you to self classify. As to conjecture, you are the example for us all.
I will agree that you are not an explosives or aircraft expert which would make comparing the incident in question with your knowledge base difficult, indeed. Of course you are unable to hypothesize which possible combination of cruise missile and warhead was used. It that because when you looked, you realized that there was no combination that could possibly account for all of the evidence?
You base everything on one man's statement based on a computer screen rendition of a damaged engine part. You have not addressed the dead passengers, fuel fires, Flight Recorder, landing gear, aircraft parts or anything else.
Try an experiment. Pick some missile and warhead combinations and see if there is any match with the extent and type of damage, witness reports, debris, etc. Then try flight 77 and see if the match is better.

seems I am not the only person to believe; that it was not a 757; something obviously struck the Pentagon what was it?

I'm still waiting for any of you to post some real evidence? Is there any real hard evidence? data reports, analysis reports, photos, etc.... anything?

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

Come on you guys; you are so convinced you are right now where is the proof?



[edit on 12-5-2010 by MolecularPhD]

Originally posted by MolecularPhD
If you have direct proof that the Hub in question is from an RB-211 please post that information; seems like that would be helpful. I would also like to understand why the ones who are so opposed to this line of logic;...

Actually, I am still amazed that, as a supposed scientist, you still don't understand this logic:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

How do you explain your rejection of very foundations of the scientific method?

Originally posted by MolecularPhD

seems I am not the only person to believe; that it was not a 757; something obviously struck the Pentagon what was it?

I'm still waiting for any of you to post some real evidence? Is there any real hard evidence? data reports, analysis reports, photos, etc.... anything?

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

Come on you guys; you are so convinced you are right now where is the proof?

You can educate yourself and all of us by providing the statements of these people, over 1,000 of whom either saw, moved, picked up, or removed the wreckage from inside the Pentagon in the hours, days, and weeks after 9/11 and who include all those people who sorted the wreckage openly on the Pentagon lawn.

What was the nature of the wreckage they reported removing and sorting through? What did they see inside the Pentagon?

Please give us the statements from this group involved with the aftermath of the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon:

Emergency Response, Rescue Operations, Firefighting, Secondary Explosions

Conspiracists are afraid to have their fantasies destroyed, so they scrupulously avoid contacting the hundreds of Pentagon 9/11 first responders and the over 8,000 people who worked on rescue, recovery, evidence collection, building stabilization, and security in the days after 9/11. These are just some of the organizations whose members worked on the scene:

Alexandria VA Fire & Rescue, American Airlines, American Red Cross, Arlington County Emergency Medical Services, Arlington County Fire Department, Arlington County Sheriff's Department, Arlington VA Police Department, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, DiLorenzo TRICARE Health Clinic staff, DeWitt Army Community Hospital staff, District of Columbia Fire & Rescue, DOD Honor Guard, Environmental Protection Agency Hazmat Teams, Fairfax County Fire & Rescue, FBI Evidence Recovery Teams, FBI Hazmat Teams, Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams, FEMA 68-Person Urban Search and Rescue Teams Maryland Task Force 1, New Mexico Task Force 1, Tennessee Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 2, FEMA Emergency Response Team, Fort Myer Fire Department, Four U.S. Army Chaplains, Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit, Military District of Washington Engineers Search & Rescue Team, Montgomery County Fire & Rescue, U.S. National Guard units, National Naval Medical Center CCRF, National Transportation Safety Board, Pentagon Defense Protective Service, Pentagon Helicopter Crash Response Team, Pentagon Medical Staff, Rader Army Health Clinic Staff, SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams, Salvation Army Disaster Services, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach Fairfax County and Montgomery County, Virginia Beach Fire Department, Virginia Department of Emergency Management, Virginia State Police.

sites.google.com...

I would appreciate your help, particularly since no one has provided us with a single statement from these people since I first asked Craig Ranke of CIT while he was doing his second trip of "investigation" more than three years ago.

If you cannot do so, please explain your reasons.

Thanks in advance.

reply to post by jthomas


as a supposed scientist;

You have to love when they try and make you out to be a liar, through suggestion that you are not who you say you are.

I understand scientific method very well; and follow many different methods depending on the circumstances of what it is I am researching.

You obviously are convinced you are correct in your thinking; please put forth that evidence so you can make me a believer like you?

I believe I keep asking the same question and keep getting no answers; obviously you and all the believers have seen some evidence that I have not that undoubtedly proves the official report to be fact; "WHERE ON GODS GREEN EARTH IS IT?"

Please cite some place where are all of the official findings have been published for review; specifically the Pentagon.

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

You keep making claims of all this debri being collected by so many people; yet I have not seen a chain of evidence list, I have not seen an official report on that list, I have not seen one single official document stating any findings on the materials collected, in fact all I keep getting from you and "HOOPER" is nothing; not one solid shred of evidence that conclusively proves that a RB-211 5 series Engine crashed landed on the lawn and into the building of the Pentagon.

HELLO!!! Am I getting through yet. "WHERE IS ALL OF THE EVIDENCE?" where is all of the things you claim they have collected; who has seen it, who has tested it, and where are their reports?

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

I do not care what you know; or for that matter what I know; or what you believe or what I believe; WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?

Why is it that in any other thread you would post on this site; it is purely logical to ask for the evidence of the facts being presented but, when it comes to 9/11 no one produces anything, and when you ask them to produce their evidence you are crazy for asking for it.

In the scientific community if I were to make a claim as to a new form of technology; then proceeded that with "Well the Government put a panel together and the report shows that the technology works" you just have to Trust ME!! then when other scientist started asking to see the tests and data performed by that panel that shows what their findings were; and were told "WHY"? We have already told you what our findings were and your crazy for asking to see the data or the reports to show that is what we say it is. You my friend would get thrown out of the scientific community; in fact they would start publishing in every journal under the sun to disprove your findings; but if you had nothing to hide in the first place and would have just put your findings up for review; that show that your technology was sound you would not have had this problem to begin with.

Is it me or did I miss something; when did the US Government become the experts in everything? and we the people are not allowed to ask questions; or for that matter know the truth?

When are any of you going to answer any of the direct questions I have posed about this incident? instead of simply ignoring them and moving on to something else to banter on about.

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

More video evidence for your review.

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

And even more video evidence.

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

I find it interesting the statement made here that there were only a few cameras that could have captured the 757 as it struck the Pentagon; yet watch closely at the end of this video.

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

reply to post by MolecularPhD


This theory came and went so long ago that very few even listen any more. It's another variation on no-planes at WTC.
Missiles at the Pentagon don't have much support among the CTer's. If you want the chain of evidence information, convince the Justice department that you are Moussaoui's lawyer. Of course that is all faked, too, as per www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread331435/pg1.

reply to post by MolecularPhD


Try the book "FIREFIGHT" by Patrick Creed and Rick Newman

Interviewed 150 different people who WERE THERE! Not some clowns
peddling their conspiracy fantasies.

Most of the witness interviewed were the firefighter/rescue personnel
involved in fighting the fires and later recovering the dead

You asked where is the plane

Easy - ITS INSIDE THE BUILDING! (or at least most of it) Or did you
somehow miss the part about the plane smashing through the exterior wall
and ploughing into the building.

another interesting video.

Respectfully

MolecularPHD

this one I am going to show a friend of mine in the video editing business; to ask his opinion.