Where is everyone ? The mystery remains ...

reply to post by tauristercus


I think the most frightening thought is that we are alone in the universe. What would that mean??? It would have deep theological implications, for sure.

reply to post by tauristercus


It's really quite simple - In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. There is no mention anywhere in the Bible of God creating other worlds and this is just another piece of evidence to back that up.

Now, all you intellectuals, skeptics and experts - flame away!!!

I am pretty sure that the reason that society doesn't believe in aliens is because they don't WANT to. If I have learned anything from my experience with the human race, they are not ones who are willing to accept ideas that are outside of their comfort zone. In fact, they sbatodge or actively try to ignore facts that fly in the face of what they believe.

In my opinion, there could be TONS of evidence of aliens visiting our planet (oh look there is), but the people of main street would ignore every last bit of evidence, not with counter-evidence, or with reason, but with simple "that has to be a hoax aliens don't exist" 'logic.' Or maybe by quoting someone else who hasn't bothered to look at the facts, either.

Believers in religion who hold fast to the idea that God created the Earth are actually a bit less annoying to me than believers in certain scientific ideologies that hold fast to the idea that aliens don't exist, just because they were told so, or because it threatens their world-view if they do.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by darkbake]

[edit on 12-5-2010 by darkbake]

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


Dear SmokeandShadow

I don’t think you have any reason to fear this as the Vatican have all ready told the catholic population of the world that it is quite all right to believe in ET.

The Vatican is a city state in its own right within Rome and as such conducts it’s self as a government with ambassadors around the world. So the fact that they have told there people almost to expect ET and that in its self doesn’t go against the teachings of the church speaks volumes.

One might even say we have already had disclosure at least from them.


[edit on 12-5-2010 by MAC269]

Tauristercus

You seriously need to consider tradeing in your screen name.
ThreadMaster would suffice. I always enjoy your threads even if I don't always understand them. I have never heard of this Fermi person until
this. Yet I have contemplated the better part of this paradox on my own.

People are seeing things in the sky. I declare my own testimonials of this phenomena to include myself as one of those people. Five times I have witnessed very strange anomalies in the sky. I often contemplate the shear number of sightings per day with the one simple fact that SETI
hears nothing of all these sightings.

I won't lead your thread in a direction I believe you wouldn't want it to go.
I will only point out that Dr. J Allen Hynek toward the end of his life, had
come to the conclusion that they are demonic.

SnF of course.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by randyvs]

Wow man that is a lot of copying and pasting of others research material...and with references included, well I guess that's better than most.

How about I sum it up with something that someone in some university said BACK to Dr. Ferme's QUESTION and it went a little something like this:

"The zoo hypothesis is one of a number of suggestions that have been advanced in response to the Fermi paradox, regarding the apparent absence of evidence in support of the existence of advanced extraterrestrial life. According to this hypothesis, aliens would generally avoid making their presence known to humanity, or avoid exerting an influence on human development, somewhat akin to zookeepers observing animals in a zoo, or experimental scientists observing a study that closer examination would ruin.[1][2]

Adherents of the hypothesis consider that Earth and humans are being secretly surveyed using equipment located on Earth or elsewhere in the Solar System which relays information back to the observers. It is also suggested that overt contact will eventually be made with humanity once humans reach a certain level of development."

Sorry no references, but with the work that you put in with your original post, I am sure you could find them if interested ;-)

Interesting thread, I'll give you that. But I don't think you gave enough reasons why if there is other intelligent beings why haven't they contacted us. I personally believe this galaxy is full of life, and lots of other civilizations are exponentially more advanced then ours... So why haven't we met anyone yet? Maybe there are universal guidelines for developing/evolving civilizations. For example, perhaps there are galactic counsels or governments that manage when they can present themselves to other civilizations. It could be that we're obviously not ready to meet extra-terrestrials...... Think about it! I can't imagine aliens landing on Earth and not being shot on sight by the conditioned violent citizens of our planet. We've been conditioned by TPTB to fear aliens!!! Just rent the movie Independence Day and you'll understand that TPTB don't want aliens here, and they want you to think that aliens are violent, resource hungry beings, only here to wipe us out and harvest our resources. SO... Until we've figured out how to manage our planet responsibly, and let go of the urge to kill each other, I dont see why ANY aliens would want any contact with us. We've got issues to sort out and once we can all agree on some very basic, and humane laws for ourselves I think we might be introduced to extra-terrestrials. But right now, TPTB obviously know of aliens existance and they don't want their help. They like things the way they are. We need to give up our hunger for power and money and f***ing start sharing the worlds resources with other countries. I can't imagine living in Somalia or Sudan. The way the USA hogs even the most basic necessities for human life makes me want to puke. I'm very grateful for being born in the united states and not worrying about when my next meal will be. Open your eyes and please try to be more sympathetic guys. It's the only way we'll ever meet our galactic brothers and sisters!

I'm sorry for the rant but come on guys its really obvious. We have to clean this greedy mess up that we're in before any aliens want to hang out and drink a beer with us . That's my $.02

Omni

Edit: Undid all caps so people will read my post.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by InfiniteOmnipresence]

Okay. We are only looking at this through our world's view of what science is.

Maybe the very advanced beings in this universe know what science really is.

Maybe they understood that to understand what is outside we must first learn what the inside is.

It is possible that we are the most advanced inhabitants in this universe. Probably not but it is a possibility. Maybe we are actually unaware of what our thoughts can actually do.

Perhaps more advanced beings realize our theories are wrong and waiting for us to wake up so we can communicate with them in a more suitable living environment.

I for one believe that there are beings in the universe, not just more advanced, but more humane than we are and they realize that our technology far exceeds our humanity.

So I don't think that it is technology that will allow contact with greater beings. I believe it will be our social realization that only through peace can we open any type of dialogue that will lead to mutual understanding and friendship.





[edit on 12-5-2010 by Conclusion]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by tauristercus

 

Perhaps we think to much. Perhaps the answer is as simple as why we discover new species on this planet we occupy like so many Cockroaches nearly every day.

I'd think we could easily be overlooked in a place as large as this Galaxy let alone the Universe. Like the bottoms of trenches below our oceans and the caves that are yet to be explored, life is still everywhere for us to discover.

What if there is no "Paradox" other than we are as a single grain of sand on an endless beach and nobody has noticed us yet?

We send out our first radio and television broadcasts just a few years ago and we are surprised the Galaxy has not fallen all over themselves to send out the Welcome Wagon?

I'm not sure but I think some of you may be missing the crux of the Fermi Paradox. It's NOT about whether extraterrestrials have noticed us yet OR whether they've already visited Earth ... it's actually asking the question that if the galaxy has been around for approximately 13 billion years and life on Earth only started about 4 billion years ago AND as many scientists are now beginning to suspect that life WILL evolve given even the slightest encouragement ... then whats happened to all those potential thousands and millions of alien species that could have evolved technological civilizations billions of years ago ? Why do we not see the galaxy absolutely teeming with life ?

reply to post by InfiniteOmnipresence

I'm sorry for the rant but come on guys its really obvious. We have to clean this greedy mess up that we're in before any aliens want to hang out and drink a beer with us . That's my $.02

I didn't read your whole post because of the big block of letters.
However I don't believe you have an intimate knowledge of all the forces at work in the world.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by randyvs]

**sorry messed up the quoting hmtl code stuff.** (this is a reply to above poster)
"I'm not sure but I think some of you may be missing the crux of the Fermi Paradox. It's NOT about whether extraterrestrials have noticed us yet OR whether they've already visited Earth ... it's actually asking the question that if the galaxy has been around for approximately 13 billion years and life on Earth only started about 4 billion years ago AND as many scientists are now beginning to suspect that life WILL evolve given even the slightest encouragement ... then whats happened to all those potential thousands and millions of alien species that could have evolved technological civilizations billions of years ago ? Why do we not see the galaxy absolutely teeming with life ?"



Ah thank you good sir. I completely agree! I can't see why people don't want to assume that the galaxy is bursting with intelligent life. Nice post buddy!

Omni

[edit on 12-5-2010 by InfiniteOmnipresence]

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
reply to post by tauristercus

 

I think the most frightening thought is that we are alone in the universe. What would that mean??? It would have deep theological implications, for sure.

Statistically, it would be extremely improbable considering the age of the galaxy (13 billion years) that we humans were the FIRST technological civilization with space faring capabilities.
This is based on the fact that life on Earth only started to evolve about 4 billion years ago ... so there was more than enough time and opportunity for countless other civilizations to evolve and move out into space in the proceeding 9 billion years of the galaxy's existence and completely overrun it long before humans evolved technolgy of our own.

But if we ARE the first, then that means the entire galaxy could potentially belong to us humans once we get out there and start our own colonization ... hehehe ... that would make US the Elder Race or Ancients of the galaxy !

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by InfiniteOmnipresence

 

I'm sorry for the rant but come on guys its really obvious. We have to clean this greedy mess up that we're in before any aliens want to hang out and drink a beer with us . That's my $.02

I didn't read your whole post because of the big block of letters.
However I don't believe you have an intimate knowledge of all the forces at work in the world.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by randyvs]

Sorry I'm kinda drunk and wanted to rant. I'll edit the post for your sensitive eyes my dear soul.

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by SmokeandShadow

 

Dear SmokeandShadow

I don’t think you have any reason to fear this as the Vatican have all ready told the catholic population of the world that it is quite all right to believe in ET.

The Vatican is a city state in its own right within Rome and as such conducts it’s self as a government with ambassadors around the world. So the fact that they have told there people almost to expect ET and that in its self doesn’t go against the teachings of the church speaks volumes.

One might even say we have already had disclosure at least from them.


[edit on 12-5-2010 by MAC269]

I'm not catholic, but yeah, I'm aware they said it wouldn't conflict with their views. I simply meant, if indeed their was 100% certainty that their were no other beings in the universe, that would be very significant. For one, it would mean everything as far as we know, has been made, or came to be to make us (this is some the "the case for a creator" alludes to). I guess if you don't believe in purpose (not you per se) then it isn't significant as much as it is odd.

How about this.

If we are all alone in the universe the only theological concern would be that there is no God because we are all alone.

With that said it would also disprove evolution because with the size of the universe and if no alien life of some kind, that would make us the lottery winners of the Universe. But at least we would be the most advanced life form in the universe.

Originally posted by InfiniteOmnipresence
Interesting thread, I'll give you that. But I don't think you gave enough reasons why IF there is other intelligent beings why haven't they contacted us.

Again, let me reiterate ... it's NOT about why extraterrestrial civilizations (if they exist) haven't contacted us ... it's about why there's not so much as a peep, or an artifact, or a signal, or anything out there to indicate that there's even a SINGLE other civilization out there in this galaxy besides us.

It's not about that they wanted to remain unknown to us and are hiding as that makes no sense. With the 9 billion or so years that the galaxy was around before life even began to evolve here on Earth, it's been estimated that there was a potential for perhaps millions of civilizations to evolve and gain technology and then move out into the remainder of the galaxy and colonize it.
And it would be ludicrous to think that each and every one of those civilizations would have engaged in a game of "hide and go seek" with every other civilization out there.
Instead, they would have moved out from their home planets for many reasons and constructed artifacts, devices, etc and would have been busy communicating their little alien hearts out with each other.
And all this theoretically before the 1st bacteria appeared on Earth.

But here we are with our own technology and we look around us in this galaxy of ours and see zip, zero, zilch, nada, bupkiss around us ... not only do we NOT see anything going on but we also hear nothing whatsoever .... no communication going on at all which you would imagine would be all around us if the galaxy had indeed been colonized.

So where is everyone ?????

reply to post by tauristercus

So where is everyone ?????

Ok what I say now. I am compelled to say.

There really are no other civilizations out there because we were meant to populate it all .

[edit on 12-5-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by tauristercus

 

Dear tauristercus

No sorry I have not been clear.

The reason we have not heard them is because the communications speed are faster than the speed of light using some other method other than radio that we have not found yet.

exactly. We very VERY well probably have not developed technology that can detect the communication signals they use.


I mean, look at our own development in the past 200 years, communications-wise. How much different would an infrastructure look like when they've had thousands, even millions more years than we have had to develop.

You forgot another answer to the paradox:

What if aliens and alien life are abundant in the universe. Seemingly teeming in every corner.

The problem?

The powers that be do not want this truth exposed to the public(fear, control, power). If we knew there was the capability to expand and be free, imagine how many scientists would try to research and understand how to build a spacecraft. We would have alot of technological advances that would surpass those provided by the powers that be.

The powers that be would rather make it a slow and steady process so that they can ensure they are in control when we do indeed decide to reach that point.

If you look closely, you will find signs of life on Mars. Some of it is very obvious. There are clear satellite images of trees, plants, lakes and cirrus clouds on mars. Some of these(the clouds) even NASA admits are true. The truth of the matter is there is life out there, its everywhere. We just cant know about it.

Titan, Europa and Mars probably all have life. I can speak for Mars 100%.

www.marsanomolyresearch.com

Look at what he says. Sometimes hes a bit out there, but some of those images are so obvious that there is no other explanation other than biology of some kind.

That already puts the drake equation at 2 planets for every 1 star that can sustain some kind of life.

The truth hurts, but you've been lied to.

edit: heres just one picture(there are many):

www.marsanomalyresearch.com...

According to NASA, this is an optical illusion. But you can decide that for yourself.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by demonseed]

Originally posted by tauristercus

Originally posted by InfiniteOmnipresence
Interesting thread, I'll give you that. But I don't think you gave enough reasons why IF there is other intelligent beings why haven't they contacted us.

Again, let me reiterate ... it's NOT about why extraterrestrial civilizations (if they exist) haven't contacted us ... it's about why there's not so much as a peep, or an artifact, or a signal, or anything out there to indicate that there's even a SINGLE other civilization out there in this galaxy besides us.

It's not about that they wanted to remain unknown to us and are hiding as that makes no sense. With the 9 billion or so years that the galaxy was around before life even began to evolve here on Earth, it's been estimated that there was a potential for perhaps millions of civilizations to evolve and gain technology and then move out into the remainder of the galaxy and colonize it.
And it would be ludicrous to think that each and every one of those civilizations would have engaged in a game of "hide and go seek" with every other civilization out there.
Instead, they would have moved out from their home planets for many reasons and constructed artifacts, devices, etc and would have been busy communicating their little alien hearts out with each other.
And all this theoretically before the 1st bacteria appeared on Earth.

But here we are with our own technology and we look around us in this galaxy of ours and see zip, zero, zilch, nada, bupkiss around us ... not only do we NOT see anything going on but we also hear nothing whatsoever .... no communication going on at all which you would imagine would be all around us if the galaxy had indeed been colonized.

So where is everyone ?????

The reason is we are looking for them in the wrong way. Relate it trying to find the bedroom in a house by looking in the kitchen....and only the kitchen.

Does that mean that there is no bedroom? No. It just means we don't know where, or maybe HOW to look for it.

It very well could turn out that our social ideals are wrong, thereby hindering our ability to find what we are looking for.