I believe in immigration

I am annoyed by certain patron's or spoilt arrogant people who think more of themselves and their so called "country" rather than the realities of life.

Most people wouldn’t think twice about popping into their local coffee shop, upgrading to the latest MP3 player or treating a loved one to a piece of jewellery. But if they knew truth about the appalling living and working conditions for the people that supply them, would they feel like such a treat?

Now, many genuine immigrants want to come to Europe, America or Australia to make life better for themselves. They want to work, they want to sustain a healthy life for their children, particular education.

Even if they do not want to work, and use the welfare system, i still fully support it because obviously government's and charities are not doing enough.


In Ghana, computers, tvs are dumped as waste, the Ghanaians including the children are selling computer screens to tv screens for 5pence/5cent.
You should travel to Ghana to mine one of our oldest and most precious luxuries, gold, but also discover the impact of one of Africa's newest imports, e-waste.

Joining some of the thousands of men and women who mine gold by hand, you may find the struggle to cope as exhaustion bites, tempers fray and Shievonne collapses - making the you question if gold truly deserves its luxurious label.

But nothing the you may have seen prepares you for the electrical dump site. Here, young children smash and break computers from the west in search of valuable copper - a means of survival that not only puts their health on the line but also their lives.

We are getting good at recycling bottles and cans, but what about old electricals?

Electrical, or E-waste, is our fastest growing form of rubbish. Eager for flat screens and HD pictures, in London alone dumps more than 4,000 TVs daily.

These TVs are packed with lead and toxic metals and law requires all electronics to be recycled within the UK.

However delevoped world's passion for new TVs and electrical gadgets is having repercussions thousands of miles away.

To avoid paying for proper disposal in the delevoped world, criminals ship containers of electrical waste and illegally dump it in Africa.

They call it the Sodom and Gomorra slum in Ghana - hazardous electrical waste dumped as far as the eye can see.
see here:



Its source is banks, councils, hospitals and even a police force.

It is hard to imagine this in the delevoped world, where you can be fined for not sorting your recycling box properly.

Yet somehow, tonnes of electrical waste are dumped in Ghana.

We have banned the export of electrical waste, but that green law has turned toxic as criminals smuggle it out for recycling in one of the poorest countries on earth.

In south Africa, children's home called Baphumelele right in the middle of one of South Africa's biggest townships called Khayelitsha which is just a mass of shacks with people living in extreme poverty.

The toughest job at Baphumelele is the baby house. Some of the carers hardly got any sleep looking after 36 babies. It stinks of poo, and there were always kids crying and shouting.

in Madagascar, mining sapphires, Ilakaka is a perfect place to take any one wanting to see the reality. A ramshackle town full of desperate people searching for their fortunes: lots of danger and not a single flushing loo. And out on the edge of town there is an actual hellhole – a huge pit, dug in the red soil by human chains of men with shovels. Very Old Testament. Oh my God, some say, collectively. But there's not really time for OMGs. You'll have to get down and dirty.


Of course, they moan and faint, get blisters and backache and drop out. The ones who can't take the heat at the open-cast mine are taken to a more traditional shaft, and lowered into the darkness. But this one is built with the slimline African miner in mind, not the well nourished European. Some spoilt brats may get stuck and have panic attacks and have to be winched back up, white and trembling. It must be hard though, mining in Madagascar, when normally you'd be shopping in some posh shops.


One of them may even have a pop at the European gem dealer for making all the money while the guys at the mines do all the work for a pound a day.


And once you get past their Veruca Saltishness, I think all arrogant, spoilt, ignorant people should be sent down mines, preferable African ones.

They will see first-hand what really goes into making the nation’s luxuries; living and working alongside the people that supply them, working relentless hours in appalling conditions for a pittance.

immersed into the worlds of gem mining in Madagascar; leather and coffee production in Ethiopia; e-recycling and gold mining in Ghana; and the electronics industry in the Philippines.

And with a such a small amount of payment that they earn, while still maintaining a smile with dismissal opportunities. While, you may moan about your mortgage, food, play station breaking, your home, your children's education, your car and the economy. People in the poorest countries are still as happy as larry even while living in mud houses with the most basic of needs. What is about to come to many countries in the developed world must be desired and must be respected. To really understand your roots as human beings you need to learn to smile while in the most crucial elements. I firmly support any immigrant (legal and illegal immigration) the legal equations are insignificant when you need to survive. Some come to a country to help their families aboard who better much deserve it more than those who take everything for granted in the developed world.

Flags, sovereignty means nothing. This means everything.

Only, if you want to question why on earth are we going through a crisis through financial means, we ought to go through this cycle to come back to what living on this earth means for all of the living creatures on our planet.


Learn to smile even in the most impossible of scenarios, Thank you.












[edit on 11-5-2010 by anonymousproxy]

Well said brother.

I said this in another thread, and i will say it here.

This is a planet, not a game called risk.

nice rant, really, well said.
although did i miss the part where you don't differentiate between legal and illegal immigration?
i'm all for it, as long as it's done rightly.
in other words, is it ok to hop a fence?

legal and/or illegal immigration I am fine with it aslong as its not for terror means.

I agree open up americas borders, everyone should have a chance. Americans where all immigrants once, so how they can have closed borders is beyond me, the hypocrisy.

Open up all borders, and just let everyone live as humans.

Maybe one day it will happen, when the anglo american empire understands that others need to live too.

reply to post by anonymousproxy


I believe your heart is in the right place but did have an issue with this:

Even if they do not want to work, and use the welfare system, i still fully support it because obviously government's and charities are not doing enough.

This is a plan doomed to fail every single time. You cannot continue to add 'non-contributing takers' and expect there to be enough to go around forever.

How about this. Instead of creating more of an economic drain in a workable system (a nation of producers and contributors) by adding something dysfunctional (non contributing takers), we instead immigrate to the problem areas and show them our workable way of life?

Teach them how to fish, so to speak. Let's migrate to their host countries and teach them to duplicate the system they believe works and that which they yearn for?

I think mass migration to these countries to show them how to properly achieve such a system on their own would be more beneficial in the long run.

(And I'm purposely setting a bit of a snare here, in case it's not noticeable, to reverse the reasoning process).

Instead of bringing the broken into workable areas, why not bring the workable systems into broken areas? If you have a problem with that, then why?

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by anonymousproxy

 

I believe your heart is in the right place but did have an issue with this:



This is a plan doomed to fail every single time. You cannot continue to add 'non-contributing takers' and expect there to be enough to go around forever.

How about this. Instead of creating more of an economic drain in a workable system (a nation of producers and contributors) by adding something dysfunctional (non contributing takers), we instead immigrate to the problem areas and show them our workable way of life?

Teach them how to fish, so to speak. Let's migrate to their host countries and teach them to duplicate the system they believe works and that which they yearn for?

I think mass migration to these countries to show them how to properly achieve such a system on their own would be more beneficial in the long run.

(And I'm purposely setting a bit of a snare here, in case it's not noticeable, to reverse the reasoning process).

Instead of bringing the broken into workable areas, why not bring the workable systems into broken areas? If you have a problem with that, then why?

I think that's an excellent idea, however, am sure they know how to fish they just need the equipment. i think mass immigration with maybe financial support from somewhere is a great idea. However charities who claim to be doing just the thing are not doing it. So, the workable force that goes over there should step down from there jobs in delevoped world. individual's should take the step, save and build up over there and teach them. The thing is, people won't, some may, like myself i would contribute and i am on disability benefits i would give my own money to help them.

For the time been, because your idea may not happen for a long time, its best they come here, there is no alternative at the moment for anyone.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by anonymousproxy]

my fear is that if america opens it's border.
we triple our population in 6 months.
no one leaves, we get swamped.
we have serious problems already.

I despise the divisive, looney-left, ideology expressed in your statement.

Partly because...
1. You forget that migration is a contributing cause to the continuation of many third world countries problems. Didn't you know that migrants tend to be the younger, more ambitious, educated, members of ANY human society?
Hoes does their leaving benefit their society? Look at Poland, the price of plumbers, dentists (all professionals) suffered massive "wage inflation" caused by migration to Europe. About 1 in for Poles has decided to stay in the U. K and as much, as it will hopefully be a better life for themselves, they have (virtually) abandoned their country.

Migrants are well known for sending Our currency back (often exposing themselves to even an meaner life here). So migrants are statistically well known for being far more likely to be lured into crime by: e.g. the tough challenges, of being an immigrant who e.g. has suffered over-optimistic expectations.

2. We are (currently) going through a recession, and "the recovery" remains far from stable. So it's stupid to, want to allow, "social unrest" "political discontent" to increase even more by forcing our nations children to compete for jobs against extra newly arrived persons.

3. When the economy is growing, we through our working lives, have achieved an economy that sometimes needs migrants. Those are the times when we should always let them in, because that what's best for my children. But all the other times the governments answer needs to be "deportation you selfish little traitors" "now off you go, to serve you're countries real needs" (and anyways there are plenty of other countries to try to gain, citizenship into, in this big world)

The only time we should give asylum on humanitarian grounds is when we know we are saving peoples lives, and that there stay can be temporary. I believe the only way to judge who is qualified to stay in our country is to ask the immigrants 9themselves) to prove it to an immigration process.
It may be tough, but if they can't do it, they shouldn't be part of our country, otherwise they hold people back, who don't want to be held back.

[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]

I am a labour party voter and enjoy been so.

Liberal1984 to qoute you:

migration is a contributing cause to the continuation of many third world countries problems

I really doubt it is, so your saying that by earning a pound a day. Living in a mud house living with 18 or so people were that single pound has to contribute to all, is helping the third world countries?.

Your saying that by living in a toxic waste dump, sleeping and eating living amongst your only wage is helping the economy?

2. We are (currently) going through a recession, and "the recovery" remains far from stable. So it's stupid to, want to allow, "social unrest" "political discontent" to increase even more by forcing our nations children to compete for jobs against extra newly arrived persons

Unacceptable attitude, it's not about your children to compete for job's. it's not about you you you, and if there is political discontent or social unrest or indeed a world bankruptcy. It is needed to distinguish between people like yourself and the other few people who have replied to this thread who will survive and build this world back up, and it won't be people like you who will survive.

The only time we should give asylum on humanitarian grounds is when we know we are saving peoples lives, and that there stay can be temporary. I believe the only way to judge who is qualified to stay in our country is to ask the immigrants 9themselves) to prove it to an immigration process.
It may be tough, but if they can't do it, they shouldn't be part of our country, otherwise they hold people back, who don't want to be held back.

"we don't want to be held back"
ladies and gentlemen this is why the thread was created for people like this who think for themselves first, this is why earth is going through a cycle to take out the bad to bring in the new and we need to some very tough times to have a bright future. Do not worry about these people. The people of the OLD will not be apart of the open, diverse, loving world we will have eventually. And if there is extra terrestrial out there, when we accept everything, and everyone without a label on everything, only then will we understand humanity.

The cycle has begun without you even realising it.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by anonymousproxy]

Originally posted by rubbertramp
my fear is that if america opens it's border.
we triple our population in 6 months.
no one leaves, we get swamped.
we have serious problems already.

if you fear it then your not ready to continue, what you so scared of?

Immigration should be regulated, because if you don't regulate immigration services and products become short supply. People would take advantage of open borders. Drugs and crime would increase without the checks (yet crime is increasing in some parts of the USA).

The reason why we have immigration policy is to regulate the amount of people draining the system. If you go through immigration leagally like I have had to do you have to prove you will not be a drain on society wether that be welfare or health. You have to be 125% above the poverty line and go through a government sancitioned medical.

I was very angry today with the two responses. Regardless of the comments such as

Immigration should be regulated, because if you don't regulate immigration services and products become short supply"

however extremly true i believe we should get a taste of what its like to suffer in the gutter to the extreme.

The reason why we have immigration policy is to regulate the amount of people draining the system. If you go through immigration leagally like I have had to do you have to prove you will not be a drain on society wether that be welfare or health. You have to be 125% above the poverty line and go through a government sancitioned medical.

We have been draining their society and have ruined their society from centuries ago. They should have to prove nothing on wanting to drain society on welfare or health. It's wrong you should be above the poverty line to enter i would presume America?.

The west must suffer their consequences and must be drained of everything. People must suffer, this includes, unfortunately the children of the western nationals as of the results of the parent's and their governments responsibilities. We must find real truth human builders who want to work with the world society without a monetary system. This is why the cycle is happening and this is why this thread is here.

You must experience oil spill disasters, volcano eruptions, tsunamis, increase in crime and drugs, financial collapse so that we can differentiate between the survivors and the failures and who will build this world in a more creative, equality, label-less, moneyless society.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by anonymousproxy]

The world can never be equal because we have ruling elite and we have a under class. When things go wrong when things don't seam right a wise person once told me a very true statment "follow the money"


But going back to immigration the right to live in any country is upto that countries government. We have no right to say that people have the right to all the social benefits that a country offers without paying into that system. Can you not see this battle is going through Europe at the moment with the entitled peoples as Margaret thatcher once said the problem with socialism is one day you will run out of other peoples money.

Originally posted by Brit-Tex
The world can never be equal because we have ruling elite and we have a under class. When things go wrong when things don't seam right a wise person once told me a very true statment "follow the money"


But going back to immigration the right to live in any country is upto that countries government. We have no right to say that people have the right to all the social benefits that a country offers without paying into that system. Can you not see this battle is going through Europe at the moment with the entitled peoples as Margaret thatcher once said the problem with socialism is one day you will run out of other peoples money.

surly by draining the elite of money somthing would make them collaspe?

You can't drain the elite of money! When you raise taxes on them they move to a country which is a tax haven, they drain the under class by doing this because when the governments can tax the wealthy they tax the next people on the ladder the average joe you and me. Yet when they tax us more they don't realize that we have less to spend on the street putting less back in to the economy and then intern creating a recession.


But I digress back to immigration I have been through immigration process in the USA, it was not a plesant experience, you have to prove u will not be a burden on society, you have to prove you will not be a burden on health care, the amount of BS with the paper work you have to have a immigration lawyer. But all this is precautionary because of the governemnts wants to make sure that a immigratant can be a productive part of society. I have a problem with open borders as it only creates a safe haven for criminal activity. Yes closed Borders has it's own problems with people smuggling etc. But open Borders would create a mass of criminal activity which police and government agencies could not and would not be able to handle.

I would hate to think about the drugs crossing the Borders and the weapons and the money leaving one country to go to another. Drug dealers and weapons dealers don't report their income. So when that money leaves the country in $ bills it leaves the economy you immagine with out border agents how our government would have to print money ( I know they are printing money without hesitation at the moment) and when you do this you devalue the currancy on the world markets. So closed Borders has many effects not just the amount of people that live inside the Borders.

I believe in immigration too.

In fact, I'm thinking about immigrating to Mexico... I'm sure they'll just let me walk across the border and violate their laws, no problemo.

Wait, I've just done a quick google search and found that Mexico's immigration laws are as stringent, if not more stringent, than the US laws! Who could believe it?

Well, according to their laws, I'd have to show Mexico proof that I could financially sustain myself while in their country before they'd let me in. That sounds too hard for me. Shoot, they even say I have to learn Spanish! The audacity!

Maybe those European countries you mention will let me have a stroll over their borders... you think? Maybe I should do another quick google search and see what I'd have to do to immigrate to one of those nations. I bet they'll let me walk right in.

Yeah, ok, you busted me. I'm being a little tongue in cheek here.

You go right on demonizing the west and demonizing the greedy evil American bastards. You know, in America, we know nothing of human suffering. We all live in golden palaces and we're all immune to pain and heartache.




[edit on 13-5-2010 by misterscratch]

Originally posted by Brit-Tex
You can't drain the elite of money! When you raise taxes on them they move to a country which is a tax haven, they drain the under class by doing this because when the governments can tax the wealthy they tax the next people on the ladder the average joe you and me. Yet when they tax us more they don't realize that we have less to spend on the street putting less back in to the economy and then intern creating a recession.

there must be a way of making an impact on them.

But I digress back to immigration I have been through immigration process in the USA, it was not a plesant experience, you have to prove u will not be a burden on society, you have to prove you will not be a burden on health care, the amount of BS with the paper work you have to have a immigration lawyer. But all this is precautionary because of the governemnts wants to make sure that a immigratant can be a productive part of society. I have a problem with open borders as it only creates a safe haven for criminal activity. Yes closed Borders has it's own problems with people smuggling etc. But open Borders would create a mass of criminal activity which police and government agencies could not and would not be able to handle.

Are you British? I am in england, i know that america is very tight on the immergration however just because it was hard for you donest ean that it should be, should it?.


there is crime because of the elite trying to take food out of our mouths. and In regards to terrorism, no one can say that all terrorist are CIA or elite funded because there not. The ira were fully arm resistance well before Gerry Adams came along back in 1916 and before that.
You can't label all immigrants as potential criminals

So when that money leaves the country in $ bills it leaves the economy you immagine with out border agents how our government would have to print money ( I know they are printing money without hesitation at the moment) and when you do this you devalue the currancy on the world markets. So closed Borders has many effects not just the amount of people that live inside the Borders.

so if the devaluation continuous then it would surly devalue the elites money?

Oh, it's one thing to dream of a perfect world, it's another to open your eyes and see that humanity is greedy and corrupt, and those in power will always have rules to follow.
Even those with riches and power can lose it all to others more greedy and power hungry than themselves.(there is no honor among thieves)

Immigration is an issue in many countrys of the world, and many countrys have very strict guide lines. Most citizens of any country are in favor of immigration laws, not because of race , religion or ethnicity, but because they want to maintain a life style that many immigrants want to obtain.
Immigration laws are not ment to stop immigration or control the flow, it is ment to level the playing field,for those of us who have followed the rules to achieve what we have.
No one likes rules, but they are every where, familys,schools, work, citys,states and countrys, and without rules there is no order.(sad but true)

If I'm in my backyard doing yard work and a family of immigrants move into my home because they are homeless do they have the right to stay?
To run up my utility bills, to eat my food, to take all of my possesions?
Do their rights and needs over rule mine ?
Why is it any different from any state or country maintaining a level playing field for it's citizens?
We all have wants and needs and most of us follow the rules to get what we want and need even though we don't like it , because, there are always consequences for not following the rules.

Is it so wrong for those of us who have worked so hard for what we have to want to keep and maintain what we have ?
Is it any different from those who want to achieve that goal?

[edit on 13-5-2010 by OLD HIPPY DUDE]

[edit on 13-5-2010 by OLD HIPPY DUDE]

Sorry if my post speculated or implied that all immigrants are criminals. Yes I am british and I don't know if all immigration should be hard for all, yet the rules are there because the society or country which you are applying to wants a successful encomy.

I understand this and abide by these rules.

We as the human race have compassion but at the end of the chain is a government which wants to be prosperous for it's citizens and it's self. So in that people must abide by laws and regulations. If laws are not followed then the country is in termoil and we have a situation of factions trying to do the right thing but usually people get hurt and lives are distroyed this can also be said for a government which over dictates to it's people.