Quantum Mechanics will blow your mind - the peculiar features of quantum theory!

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla

In quantum entanglement could it not be that the two entangled objects are changed through gravitational interaction?

I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean...how do these particles becomes linked in such a way that they are able to achieve gravitational interaction in a way you suggest. I think before you try to describe how they interact in an instant fashion, you need to examine why they interact in the first place.

[edit on 16/5/10 by CHA0S]

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by Gentill Abdulla

 

In quantum entanglement could it not be that the two entangled objects are changed through gravitational interaction?

I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean...how do these particles becomes linked in such a way that they are able to achieve gravitational interaction in a way you suggest. I think before you try to describe how they interact in an instant fashion, you need to examine why they interact in the first place.

[edit on 16/5/10 by CHA0S]

I think that they became linked from a single object from the point of creation.(Singularity) Which all had begun as one then there was the big bang. Which created entropy and then one by one everything start becoming less entangled. This would lead to what I believe is a type 1 parallel universe. ( A type 1 parallel universe is almost the exact same copy of a universe actually existing within a universe.)

While there still may be some entangled particles or objects they will continue their entanglement through changes into the fabric of spacetime. Changes in gravity. Which I then just said gravitational interaction.

reply to post by CHA0S


The key word is:

to be accelerated to the speed of light.

Originally posted by CHA0S
.....and putting a camera or any other type of detector next to the slit doesn't somehow turn the particle being observed into a photon magnet does it?....

in order for science to continue to ignore the fact of intelligence, they invoke the rule of "smaller dots".

according to science, a thing or a body cannot act of its own volition. it therefore must have something internal to it which is informing its behavior in a mechanically predictable way. it is then a simple matter of dissecting the body to discover its internal mechanisms and by thus doing, allowing ourselves to ignore the fact of intelligence forever.

down and down and down they go.....dissecting further and further down. smaller and smaller dots. they are forced to continue this game because at each stage of dissection they are again faced with the same question: HOW does this body KNOW how to perform its behavior?!


----->>>what is the principle of information?

__________

well, when we get so far down in this dissection game that matter and energy start to unravel, the smaller dots are called photons.

as people, we tend to think of photons simply as light. this is more or less correct.

but on the quantum level, photons are the "smaller dots" of dissection. on the quantum level, photons are the principle of information. when a photon is absorbed or released, it is the same as saying that a transfer of information has occurred.


and on the quantum level, an electron can travel quite a distance before coming into contact with a photon......in fact, the whole matter of discussing the interaction of photons and electrons is quite dubious. this is from where quantum mechanics, and all of its "magical" lingo is born.

suffice to say that when a photon and an electron interact. their interaction is a transfer of information. and that transfer of information is an indication that "reality" has manifested.


we can put this into terms of the double slit experiment:


will the transfer of information (the manifestation of reality) occur at the slit?

-or-

will the transfer of information occur at the photographic plate?
__________


whats funny is that Quantum Mechanics is science's way of continuing to deny an inherent intelligent principle in the universe. key word here is "MECHANICS". predictability. smaller dots.

and ironically, the mystical metaphysicians (i do not mean this in a derogatory fashion) try to use QM as a method of supporting a belief in an intelligent principle.

both sides are using the same ideas to argue completely different points.


DOH!

reply to post by AllIsOne


Yes, and also maintaining that speed. You're saying you need to start going at the speed of light or faster, but that still wouldn't work. You need energy to accelerate to the speed of light, and also energy (an infinite amount for anything with mass) to maintain that speed.

However, lets think of it this way, what if your craft was mass-less? That would work also wouldn't it? I've always believed if Aliens did poss craft capable of interstellar space travel, that's how they would achieve FTL speeds. Mass-less crafts that are made of high frequency quantized energy - also with the ability to lower the energy state of the craft into the visible light spectrum making them visible to the naked eye. This is why I believe NASA cameras which are able to see into the lower light spectrum (higher frequencies) often catch what I believe are UFO's. For anyone interested in this, there is a documentary titled "Evidence: The case for NASA UFO" which discusses this theory in depth.

[edit on 16/5/10 by CHA0S]

reply to post by tgidkp

down and down and down they go.....dissecting further and further down. smaller and smaller dots. they are forced to continue this game because at each stage of dissection they are again faced with the same question: HOW does this body KNOW how to perform its behavior?!

Inanimate objects don't KNOW anything...they just sit there...lifeless...particles just bounce around through interactions with other objects, in a fashion which can be scientifically explained. I personally think, when they reach a certain level, they will "untie" or "untangle" if you will, a bound system of stable vibrating energy, probably somewhat like in string theory. The energy would then dissipate back from whence it came.

well, when we get so far down in this dissection game that matter and energy start to unravel, the smaller dots are called photons.

Where did you hear that?!? Or are you theorizing that matter is simply electromagnetic energy at the most fundamental level?

but on the quantum level, photons are the "smaller dots" of dissection. on the quantum level, photons are the principle of information. when a photon is absorbed or released, it is the same as saying that a transfer of information has occurred.

Again, I'd like to know where you heard that. And I wouldn't go as far as saying an information transfer has taken place, merely an energy transfer.

.in fact, the whole matter of discussing the interaction of photons and electrons is quite dubious. this is from where quantum mechanics, and all of its "magical" lingo is born.

suffice to say that when a photon and an electron interact. their interaction is a transfer of information. and that transfer of information is an indication that "reality" has manifested.

Huh?!? An electron-photon interaction shows no indication "reality" has manifested...although, without interactions and a transfer of energy between electrons and photons, we wouldn't have a vast array of different technological devices...I don't even know what you mean by that...and I'd also like to know how photon-electron interactions have led to the "magical" lingo of quantum mechanics.

we can put this into terms of the double slit experiment:


will the transfer of information (the manifestation of reality) occur at the slit?

-or-

will the transfer of information occur at the photographic plate?

What do you mean "the transfer of information"...the double-slit experiment can be done with electrons and photons, and even larger particles to the best of my knowledge...what transfer of information would take place at the photographic plate, what is a photographic plate btw? You mean the fluorescent screen, which becomes energized and lights up where ever it gets struck?

both sides are using the same ideas to argue completely different points.

Not really...I haven't seen any real theories that involve any real quantum mechanics...they usually all try to argue "every particle in our universe is held together by a super-consciousness"...now, I wouldn't reach that conclusion myself...and as I stated, I believe particles are simply a system of stabilized energy bound into a dense state, creating the illusion of a particle...

[edit on 16/5/10 by CHA0S]

Originally posted by CHA0S
....Where did you hear that?!?....
....Huh?!?....
....I don't even know what you mean by that...

sorrowfully, you have made an entire thread about quantum mechanics and apparently have no idea what it is at all.


i do not mean to be rude. i appreciate what you are attempting, and i think that there is plenty of room for speculation about the interplay of consciousness and QM. actually, it is one of my most favorite passtimes.


but until you can come to grips with the transfer of a photon as a transfer of information between two particles, you may as well admit that you are confused all to hell. and stop confusing everyone else all to hell.


best of luck to you....i did my best.

reply to post by tgidkp

Originally posted by tgidkp

Originally posted by CHA0S
1....Where did you hear that?!?....
2....Huh?!?....
3....I don't even know what you mean by that...

sorrowfully, you have made an entire thread about quantum mechanics and apparently have no idea what it is at all.
----
you may as well admit that you are confused all to hell. and stop confusing everyone else all to hell.

1. Your claim was ludicrous, and I'd like to know where you got that. When you start "pulling apart" an atom, the smaller particles are not photons my friend. Please provide facts to back up your claims.

2. You claim that electron-photon interactions is the cause for most of the magical thinking involved with quantum mechanics. I want proof and facts about that also, because I know of no such thing.

3. Please elaborate on what you mean by information transfer. Because I know what information transfer is, and judging by the rest of your original post, you clearly don't know as much as you seem to think you do. I'm not sure I'm the one who needs to stop confusing people here.

[edit on 16/5/10 by CHA0S]

reply to post by CHA0S


Just to clarify they interact through spacetime warp.(gravitational interactions)

Great thread. Very well presented CHAOS.

I have been spending much of my time lately philosophizing about science... philosophy of science.

I just wrote a 30 page paper about all of this. If you dig even further down the rabbit hole, it just keeps getting more interesting.

Basically, the conclusion I have come to, among many others, is that Aether is real, and it is a 'grainy' ether that has a twist to it... in the ratio of PHI or fibonacci sequence. All the 'quantum levels' are just density fluctuations of this aether-like substratum.

I really like this article from Discover Magazine article about famous physicist John Archibald Wheeler

Wheeler's hunch is that the universe is built like an enormous feedback loop, a loop in which we contribute to the ongoing creation of not just the present and the future but the past as well. To illustrate his idea, he devised what he calls his "delayed-choice experiment," which adds a startling, cosmic variation to a cornerstone of quantum physics: the classic two-slit experiment.

By the time the astronomers decide which measurement to make— whether to pin down the photon to one definite route or to have it follow both paths simultaneously— the photon could have already journeyed for billions of years, long before life appeared on Earth. The measurements made now, says Wheeler, determine the photon's past. In one case the astronomers create a past in which a photon took both possible routes from the quasar to Earth. Alternatively, they retroactively force the photon onto one straight trail toward their detector, even though the photon began its jaunt long before any detectors existed.

It would be tempting to dismiss Wheeler's thought experiment as a curious idea, except for one thing: It has been demonstrated in a laboratory. In 1984 physicists at the University of Maryland set up a tabletop version of the delayed-choice scenario. Using a light source and an arrangement of mirrors to provide a number of possible photon routes, the physicists were able to show that the paths the photons took were not fixed until the physicists made their measurements, even though those measurements were made after the photons had already left the light source and begun their circuit through the course of mirrors.

Wheeler conjectures we are part of a universe that is a work in progress; we are tiny patches of the universe looking at itself— and building itself. It's not only the future that is still undetermined but the past as well. And by peering back into time, even all the way back to the Big Bang, our present observations select one out of many possible quantum histories for the universe.’

Basically, Nassim Haramein has said the same thing, and further.

The structure of this aetheric space-time is most likely a taurus(think smoke ring, or bubble ring from dolphins - maybe they really are the smartest beings on the planet!!), as it reconciles EM and gravity into a unified field theory




In an aetheric physics model, Sound or vibration through Cymatics is extremely important, and is probably the root of all life in the universe. Just imagine a primordial soup which is vibrated, this vibration then organises the various particles in the soup and voila...

But what is doing the vibrating? Well religions and philosophies call it god, aether, chi, the 'first cause', the 'prime mover', etc. etc...

Science calls it Zero Point Energy. They were trying to bring hydrogen to absolute zero to see what would happen to the atomic structure/electrons... but they could never do it because there was a 'base' vibration, or EM noise that was stopping them. It is fundamental in every system and basically means there is no such thing as a 'vacuum' only a really really low density aetheric substratum... in fact it is approaching infinitely less dense.

So they called it 'zero point energy' because it is an energy that means nothing will ever be 'stopped' or non-moving or absolute zero.
Integrity Research Institute
Calphysics.org re: ZPE

BTW I'm not sure where these 'debunkers' are coming from...perhaps they can post some links of their own and theories of their own?

This is popular, mainstream physics... you can't just say its 'wrong'.

Keep up your research CHAOS... welcome to the new paradigm party.

Also, if Quantum Mechanical or FTL entanglement, or aetheric principles are correct, then we would expect to see evolution making use of it. It's not like nature debates how reality works - like us humans do in our human condition - nature just DOES according to how the physical laws REALLY ARE.

These observations provide compelling evidence for quantum-coherent sharing of electronic excitation across the 5-nm-wide proteins under biologically relevant conditions, suggesting that distant molecules within the photosynthetic proteins are ‘wired’ together by quantum coherence for more efficient light-harvesting in cryptophyte marine algae.

Coherently wired light-harvesting in photosynthetic marine algae at ambient temperature



edit to add: and its not a far stretch to suggest our brains work as quantum computers... there are several papers out there regarding the subject, I encourage research in that area to anyone that is interested

edit to add: Quantum Computer - wiki
[edit on 16-5-2010 by beebs]

[edit on 16-5-2010 by beebs]

reply to post by beebs


Great posts beebs, very informative!

Originally posted by beebs
Keep up your research CHAOS... welcome to the new paradigm party.

Will do...glad to be on board!

reply to post by CHA0S


@Chaos vs. tgidkl:

No need to get rude/nasty...

It is a good discussion, I believe for the most part you two were on the same page, just using different angles/perspectives on what is happening at a level so small, imagination is a must for understanding and describing what is going on.

As a basic philosophical assumption, we must conclude(IMO) that information is both generated, and existent/transferring/interacting between a photon and an electron.

This happens in the heisenberg uncertainty principle if I'm not mistaken? Or that is what it is referring to.

Because we were trying to use photons to measure electron location/momentum. But the act of 'observing' or measuring compromises the knowledge of both.

And reality is 'proven' when the electron exists, and it has to be existing when the photon hits it.

Discussion is what ATS is about. And learning. (So please help me out if I'm not catching on as well)

reply to post by CHA0S


Thanks.

All of this is so fascinating, and I'm pretty sure the 'New Age' crowd will turn out to be correct - more or less.

I would concede it if someone can 'splain it to me better... but I have been kinda obsessed with it lately and to me it looks like time is on the 'New Age' side's interpretation IMO.

reply to post by beebs

All of this is so fascinating, and I'm pretty sure the 'New Age' crowd will turn out to be correct - more or less.

Definitely. I have full confidence that large parts of certain 'New Age' beliefs will turn out to be correct. It's only a matter of time.

I feel like I am spamming, but since this is so relevant to so many threads, I will also post it here.

I have put together a nutshell of my theory of everything.

The theory explains everything from time travel, the time traveler's paradox, teleportation, infinity, seeing the past, changing the past, predicting the future, creationism, atheism and evolutionism all the same time in a single unified theory.

http://(nolink)/2010/05/17/alexander-higgins-theory/

reply to post by CHA0S

Sorry for resurrecting this thread but I've just seen it after looking at your profile Chaos (after reading your Media Guide thread) and felt the need to add my thoughts ...


Thank you for an excellent OP with good, clear descriptions of the science and principles involved in the bizarre world of QM. Reminds me of the Physics prof who got me through my exams.

When I first studied science many years ago I was delighted by the classical physics of Isaac Newton et al. It gave me a good solid basis for understanding the world, principles and equations that worked, were demonstrable and consistant, that could be used to make accurate predictions of say, the orbits of the planets and were robust enough to get us to the moon and back. Lovely, reassuring precision and cold hard facts.

Later, as a young technician studying at college I was introduced to the Quantum world. Einstein, Heisenberg, wave/particle duality and QM which rocked my neat & tidy vision of Bohr's atomic model. When I first saw the double slit experiment demonstrated and explained my mind was well and truly blown

And yet the QM principles and equations also worked, were also demonstrable and consistant. Just as real and as true as the classical science I was familiar with. Matter is 99.999999999% nothingness. The act of observation affecting the particle under test by freezing and collapsing its probability function. Quantum entanglement and its implications.

The nature of reality itself brought into question (see my sig). Unsettling, scary stuff.

It seemed and seems to me that the closer we look, the more we see, the more questions are raised and the less certain we are of our ground. This is good. It's how we make progress.

The Quantum world and the macro world of classical mechanics appear equally valid but at odds with each other. How far one can extrapolate from QM to the bigger picture is unclear. Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity are both true and yet are incompatable. Until the Grand Unified Theory and Theory of Everything are presented and explained we remain in ignorance.

Now, late in life, I feel as Newton felt when he said

I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.

Some are paddling in the shallows, some striking out bravely into the deep water, some surfing the waves with impunity. Me, I'm sitting in a deckchair on the beach, looking out to sea, thinking, wondering and scratching my head

this reminds me of our current situation.

I love quantum physics/theory.

Mind Blown!



So even photons (light) itself is 'just' a probability wave?!