Quantum Mechanics will blow your mind - the peculiar features of quantum theory!

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

Amongst the concepts in the film that have been challenged are assertions that water molecules can be influenced by thought (as popularized by Masaru Emoto),[3] that meditation can reduce violent crime rates,[8] and that quantum physics implies that "consciousness is the ground of all being."

I believe water molecules can be influenced by thought, mass group meditation can reduce crime rates, and consciousness is the ground of all being...

Scientists aren't affirming or denying that "consciousness is the ground of all being". What they are denying is that 'quantum physics implies that "consciousness is the ground of all being."' I'm not even sure what that means, but I can imagine a solar system so remote that no intelligent or conscious beings are even aware if it, yet it exists, or "is being" in the absence of consciousness.

And quantum mechanics really is mysterious, even in real science. So that's why I don't see the need to add pseudoscience to make something that is truly mysterious into something that's pseudoscientific. Richard Dawkins points out that both consciousness and quantum mechanics are real mysteries, and he's right, even if you stick to real science, and don't include pseudoscience:
en.wikipedia.org...

Richard Dawkins stated that "the authors seem undecided whether their theme is quantum theory or consciousness. Both are indeed mysterious, and their genuine mystery needs none of the hype with which this film relentlessly and noisily belabours us", concluding that the film is "tosh".

Originally posted by CHA0S
EDIT: There was a story a while ago called Surfer dude stuns physicists with theory of everything. That was quite interesting, however my search just revealed two articles that may prove him wrong.
Surfer's Theory of Everything may be dismissed as invalid
Surfer Dude's Theory Of Everything Refuted, Mathematician Says

[edit on 10/5/10 by CHA0S]

First, nice thread, S&F.

Here's a link to the TED lecture by Lisi:

Garrett Lisi on his theory of everything

It certainly is a very beautiful theory. With it he predicts particles (besides the Higgs) that we haven't seen evidence of yet.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by elfie]

[edit on 11-5-2010 by elfie]

A question about entanglement: where does it end? That is, does it work with molecules or atoms, or just electrons?

About particles appearing and disappearing, what causes that to happen? Or are they completely random?

Thank you for the thread.

You screwed up with the double slit thing.

It's the foundation for most B.S. physics.

It's so horribly wrong.

Use ur brain

reply to post by Arbitrageur

I'm not even sure what that means, but I can imagine a solar system so remote that no intelligent or conscious beings are even aware if it, yet it exists, or "is being" in the absence of consciousness.

Very true, that's way I would explain that is as follows.

Consider an electron orbiting an atom. It's position doesn't get "pinned down", as it were, to a certain location until you try to measure it. So, I would conclude that matter/energy, molecules and even life, everything can exist and form naturally...and there are remote solar systems that no one knows about...the only difference is, there is little to no influence by a conscious observer within this solar system.

What quantum mechanics shows us, is that we can take a system of probabilities, and we can manifest its properties, so that it's no longer a soup of probabilities, but rather a defined and ordered structure manifested by the observer. As we go from the quantum realm, and move up into the molecular realm, and so on, each levels has increasing order and complexity. But it's seen in Chaos Theory, when you reach a level of order and complexity that can no longer be maintained the system breaks back into completely unpredictable chaos again. This reality is a soup if order and chaos, and a conscious observer can manifest order and structure out of random and undeterministic chaos.

In very vague terms, what I believe is that consciousness is embedded within the fabric of reality, just as everything in this universe is interconnected. I believe we each manifest, from a sea of probabilities, the local reality we will experience. However, that's not to say we can't travel through a natural untainted area of space and not exert an influence on it. I have far too many thoughts on this subject to describe, so I'm going to stop here.

[edit on 11/5/10 by CHA0S]

reply to post by fbipeeper

You screwed up with the double slit thing.

It's the foundation for most B.S. physics.

It's so horribly wrong.

Use ur brain

Well, why don't you use your brain and explain to us all where I went wrong, and provide facts to back this up.

Generally correct. Though I'm not going to buy it completly. Yes. Particles are connected, but, all the rest is pure speculation. Actually I think that can be used in future as a basis of teleportation. Only problem is that each particle is randomly connected to different places and constantly changing so there is no way to predict to, which one is connected to which.This all is based if I understood right.

Anyway this thread is good for educational purposes...at least parts of it. We had in Chemistry in High School whole model explained and we were introduced to some of the equations....brings up some memories. Well it was simplified model at some parts, but still.
Anyway I haven't been studying chemistry since in my field that is waste of time. Still I think everyone should know basics about this theory.

cant wait till i have some free time to really dig into these videos and dissect them for nuggets of juicy info. although if some of the stuff i have read in the holographic universe are right all particle and subatomic particles only exist because we look for them.

either way thanks for the compilation. cant wait to get into them.

I wouldn't worry about the Elite too much there Chaos, they are made up of particles too.
Just stop observing them and they will collapse.

reply to post by rogi22

I wouldn't worry about the Elite too much there Chaos, they are made up of particles too.
Just stop observing them and they will collapse.

If only it were that easy...and I think you meant if we observe them they will collapse...but the trouble is actually being able to observe them, they hide in shadows.

[edit on 11/5/10 by CHA0S]

S+F!

Excellent thread, I'm just starting to get into Quantum Mechanics again and you provided a good explanation of the basics.

Well Done.

reply to post by CHA0S


It is a good thread, but this stuff is not quite as solid as you might think.

They can prove most of what they're saying except for one thing - they do not know, if they are not observing, that the waves do not also collapse on their own. See, it doesn't make sense to claim that we can collapse the wave function only because we're human observers and there is actually no proof to support this idea.

The only idea that is supported is that when we observe, the wave function collapses. It is narcissism to believe that it's just because you observe it and that it doesn't happen when you don't observe it.

What are other reasons for the creation and collapse of the wave function?

We are only being told one way of looking at things.

As well, these scientists are able to determine the position of the wave functions as a particle but not the momentum because the wave function collapses and become a particle at that moment.

Do we some kind of picture of this happening? Do we have energy readings we can follow and understand? Do we have anyway of understanding that the wool isn't being pulled over our eyes? Or is this all simply theory that just makes sense, but in reality it is actually Not An Observable Thing At All.

Here's why.

The reality that you see, hear, touch, feel... it is all actually your perception inside your own brain. None of it can be proven to be the same as what everyone else perceives - ever. Not unless you find a way to get ahold of someone's brain and hook it up to a television set.

Therefore, when you think to yourself, "I want to see Orion today." Orion, if it exists outside of your perception, does not respond by recollapsing and forming the stars that you perceived were there. No... Orion already exists in your mind as a fact. Orion is solid and will always be solid in your mind. You will never be convinced Orion does not exist because it will never not exist (barring any strange disasters that affect stars millions of light years apart). So, when you go to your window, which just collapsed into reality because you entered your room, and look up at the south-eastern sky on a winter night (in the northern hemisphere), you perceive Orion to be exactly where you believed it would be.

Now, here's where it gets interesting.

Everyone else believes that as well.

You bring any person, friend, stranger to that window and show them the south-eastern sky on a winter night in the northern hemisphere, they are going to see 8 stars which form the shape which I personally perceive to be Orion. Interestingly enough, we could point to each of the stars and agree on their positions and agree fully that it is a constellation and its name is Orion.

Wait a minute. That doesn't make sense.

I thought I created reality by observing it?

But someone else can do that, too! And... they create the EXACT SAME THING.

So.. therefore, reality already has its function. But when we observe reality, we force it to reveal its function. But we do -not- create the reality by -only- observing it. We do not tell the electrons what wave function they should have. It is chosen for them already before we get there. We only simply get to -observe- the function designed for it.

Because we must still remember... we only perceive what our brain perceives and how it perceives it. No matter how much we agree on something, that does NOT prove that the perception is truly the same... only that we are able to create the illusion that we do agree.

As well, I think it is possible for us to affect things on the other side of the universe instantly. But I do not think we create these things. WE are but conduits through which energy flows. We are not the creators of the energy, neither are we the destroyers of it. I think it is possible for me to have it within me to think to myself, "Send this message : I miss you." To another creature with a brain on the opposite side of the universe, if such a creature existed. I believe it would receive the message and totally believe it was its own thought. I believe we do receive messages like these every day. I believe we are so convinced of our own being but we are -so- wrong about who we actually are.

That being said, I really actually did enjoy the OP. It is good and simple and easy to learn for anyone who is interested in learning the basics of quantum physics. I think it's worth a look, because there is a lot of good stuff.

Just be careful to recognize what is somewhat provable and what is actually only hopeful pondering.

I'm not allowed to create a thread myself yet so I'll try here.
I think we can say this is still ON-topic.
(excuse me if there is already a thread on this, couldn't find any)

Scientists confirm communication between living beings and higher dimensions

www.indiadaily.com...

cheers

reply to post by TarzanBeta

What are other reasons for the creation and collapse of the wave function?

I've considered many other explanations, and none make sense to me, nor do they seem to "fit the model". Present me with another explanation and we'll examine it.

But someone else can do that, too! And... they create the EXACT SAME THING.

So.. therefore, reality already has its function.

You've just shown that we are all co-creators of this reality - and not just humans, but every sentient being in the universe. So when you look at Orion, every other person on Earth, and all the sentient beings that can see Orion would contribute the overall resulting reality we all experience. That's why it' easier to manipulate your local reality, and vastly easier if you are more isolated, because there is less influence on the vicinity, therefore you have the highest degree of control over the local area and can overcome the influence of others, who all believe mind-power is completely impossible. It's exactly why mass meditation and other collective activities are so powerful.

But when we observe reality, we force it to reveal its function. But we do -not- create the reality by -only- observing it. We do not tell the electrons what wave function they should have. It is chosen for them already before we get there. We only simply get to -observe- the function designed for it.

Incorrect. The electron is existing in a wave-state before we pin it down under observation. It's position is -not- chosen before we try to measure it. You are correct in saying we don't directly manifest, out of nothing, reality -only- by observing - because as I explained, we are all co-creators, this world was here before you came into it, and it'll be here after you're gone...but if all sentient life in the universe suddenly disappeared do you think the universe would remain the same? I hypothesize it would go back to a very primal stage, where there was nothing "solid" - structure, order and complexity would melt away and the universe would degrade back into something more like a gaseous soup of undeterministic and probabilistic matter from which the next generation of sentient life will spawn.

[edit on 11/5/10 by CHA0S]

Most excellent THREAD Chaos!! I dig this kind of topics.

Any idea what the 4th dimension is? Is there such a thing?

S&F

Is there, in fact, a division?

I was actually considering putting this in the metaphysics section...but the science section is much more fitting IMO. However, this is not meant to be a completely scientific and mundane thread...this is a conspiracy forum after all...I wanted to emphasize the mysterious aspects of quantum physics...and connect those aspects with consciousness and the observer and really emphasize that magical aspect of quantum mechanics where we can each create our own reality. I tried to keep a nice balance between fact and fiction so that whilst I wasn't misinforming people, I was still leading them into what I find to be very intriguing and important topics.

Amongst the concepts in the film that have been challenged are assertions that water molecules can be influenced by thought (as popularized by Masaru Emoto),[3] that meditation can reduce violent crime rates,[8] and that quantum physics implies that "consciousness is the ground of all being."

I believe water molecules can be influenced by thought, mass group meditation can reduce crime rates, and consciousness is the ground of all being...

[edit on 11/5/10 by CHA0S]

reply to post by CHA0S

Incorrect. The electron is existing in a wave-state before we pin it down under observation.

Prove it.

Originally posted by pacific_waters
Is there, in fact, a division?

Between Physics and metaphysics? Yes:

physics.suite101.com...

In the general culture the difference between the terms physics and metaphysics is often confused. These are two very different branches of thought, and even metaphysics is used to describe to different topics.

Physics

Physics is the study, understanding, and knowledge of the physical, measurable universe around us. This encompasses a lot; it is essentially everything but our society and culture. Physics asks why things are the way they are, but finds answers to how they are the way they are. These are the detailed question and answers of existence. What is matter? What is energy? What is the arrow of time? How many dimensions are there in the universe? How many universes are in the multiverse?

Metaphysics

Metaphysics, in it's academic sense, is the study of theology and ontology. Theology is the study of the western God as well as religion and spirituality. Ontology is the study of beingness and the nature of reality. These are the larger questions of existence. Why do we exist? Why does the universe exist? Is there a God, or gods? Is there a purpose or design to the universe? Why do I exist? Do I have a purpose?

Originally posted by CHA0S
as I explained, we are all co-creators, this world was here before you came into it, and it'll be here after you're gone...but if all sentient life in the universe suddenly disappeared do you think the universe would remain the same? I hypothesize it would go back to a very primal stage, where there was nothing "solid" - structure, order and complexity would melt away and the universe would degrade back into something more like a gaseous soup of undeterministic and probabilistic matter from which the next generation of sentient life will spawn.

Well if the big bang theory is true, then some life form had to be the first to evolve into a sentient being. Without that consciousness around, how could the universe ever advance beyond a "primal stage"? I'm not buying your hypothesis, and this is clearly metaphysics and not physics.

reply to post by CHA0S


I'd like to know your take on how "observing" oneself through meditation supposedly brings out the inner self, which seems invisible or dormant until observed, in relation to the observation of protons and how these become "visible" when looked at.

Peace.