Lucifer = Planet Venus, not Satan - PROOF

Originally posted by BeastMaster2012
I hope this helps clear up the whole Lucifer mess. If you see someone talking about Lucifer as Satan, i urge you to point people to this thread to enlighten them. There is a great mystery involved with the Planet Venus and if we can get past this Satanic mix up we may find the truth to why the ancient people were obsessed with this wonderful planet.

For further reading on Venus, please visit my other thread regarding the first "sighting" of Venus. Oddly, the Mayans who were obsessed with Venus called the beginning of our current epoch the "Birth of Venus". This period will end in 2012:

ATS Thread: When was Venus first seen?

Birth of Venus ? Hmmm

Heres a thought....

Maybe Venus is to become a "terraformed " planet soon near 2012.....something from the Sun could cause it's orbit to be pushed out a bit closer to us...


Ever notice how if the planets came from the Sun, then Earth would be older than Venus and Mars older than Earth ..ect...

What if Mars was once in the orbit of earth, and earth was once in the orbit ( closeness ) to the sun where Venus is.....And maybe Earth is headed towards Mar's orbit in order for the New birth of a planet which then pushes the existing planets into outer orbits...


Could be a natural cycle......would also tie in a lot of "theories " together about certain possible coming events...and I could see it making sense...

However i'm just throwing out ideas really...to keep it open minded.

I love threads/topics like this and Venus has always interested me too....

Something about the fact that it is basically Earth's twin, just closer to the sun always fascinated me.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
You can play all the word games you want with astronomy charts or whatever, but fact remains, billions of people consider lucifer=satan as synonymous terms.

Just because 10 or 15 people on the internet think it's Venus, isn't going to make a dent in the grand scheme of things.

Sorry to inform you of this likely scenario.

You equate more people thinking something = makes it correct ?


That is child's logic.

Originally posted by Phage
Aren't all the sides and angles of a pentagram supposed to be the same?

Here are the five conjunctions starting with the next transit of Venus across the Sun (just for the hell of it).
6/6/2012
1/11/2014
8/18/2015
3/24/2017
10/29/2018

Here's what the conjunctions look like. It's not a very pretty pentagram. Pretty sloppy actually. No two sides are the same length. No two angles are the same.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/137a5b25d24a.png[/atsimg]

Just about any 5 points set around a circle will form this kind of "pentagram".

[edit on 5/9/2010 by Phage]

these are on a 2d view...when it's really in 3d........

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


And what if it was Mars, saturn or Uranus sitting there?

What would you say then?

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


My point is that mathematics can be skewed in dozens of ways to make your point. Venus's path never crosses that of earth so they're picking some random spot. Neither Earth of Venus trace a wavy path through the solar system; they're both elliptical, Mercury is the same.

The rose pattern they talk about seems to be if you look at Venus's path from an Earth-centric ellipse, which again will be the same for ANY two planets.

I don't mean to rain on the parade - if it's cool then enjoy it. But - the pentagram symbol could just as easily be a square, triangle, literally ANY shape that someone wants to pick. It's like how many lines can you draw within a circle?

edited to add:
As a side note I'm not Christian and have no problem with the pentagram. What I'm discussing is ONLY to do with the Venus pentagram as "proof". I also think Lucifer and Satan are different beings/things. In fact I thought "satan" was the Hebrew name for apple - not sure though.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by Thermo Klein]

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by BeastMaster2012

 

And what if it was Mars, saturn or Uranus sitting there?

What would you say then?

Are you asking me what if those planets were in place of Venus and making the 5 pointed star? I don't know. I am sure i would think differently. There is something strange about the Planet Venus and this 5 pointed star is just one of the many mysterious of the planet. I believe life was on the planet at some point in time in our history. Venus is about the same size as us and it had rivers and it has mountain peaks. In fact, the Venus has a higher mountain top than Earth:
from wiki: en.wikipedia.org...

The northern continent is called Ishtar Terra, after Ishtar, the Babylonian goddess of love, and is about the size of Australia. Maxwell Montes, the highest mountain on Venus, lies on Ishtar Terra. Its peak is 11 km above Venus's average surface elevation. The southern continent is called Aphrodite Terra, after the Greek goddess of love, and is the larger of the two highland regions at roughly the size of South America. A network of fractures and faults covers much of this area.

It's easy to imagine it as a living planet:

en.wikipedia.org...:Map_of_Venus.jpg

there is more than one serpent (as in the serpent in the garden). in fact the word seraphim (pluralized name of a race of angels) comes from the singular seraph. seraphim are around the throne of jehovah in the biblical text. (check the north circumpolar constellations, encircled by draco the dragon. here's seraph in strong's concordance: hebrew

Result of search for "seraph" :

8314 saraph saw-rawf' from 8313; burning, i.e. (figuratively) poisonous (serpent); specifically, a saraph or symbolical creature (from their copper color):--fiery (serpent), seraph.

www.eliyah.com...

that is lucifer, the burning/fiery serpent (dragon). it means bright, shining, or glowing. as you will soon see.

The “serpent” in Genesis 3 is hannachash

The Hebrew word hannachash is actually an adjective meaning “bright”, “brazen [as in shiny brass]) with the prefixed article (ha - the word “the” in Hebrew).

The Nachash and His Seed
Some Explanatory Notes on Why the “Serpent”
in Genesis 3 Wasn’t a Serpent

Michael S. Heiser, PhD
Dept. of Hebrew and Semitic Studies, UW-Madison
www.thedivinecouncil.com...

the serpents, the seraphim, were represented as the bright shining ones
In turn, all these symbols were reinterpreted into the night sky which included symbollic imagery of the stars and planets.

the biblical text is multilayered. one of those layers is undoubtedly astronomy-based.

We can argue all we want but the truth is we don't have the entire story.
The vatican has it locked.
Damn id give anything to read all those books.

sumerian enlil's (father of the elohim) planet was jupiter.
here's some really interesting sounds from jupiter.

Fascinating recording of Jupiter sounds (electromagnetic "voices") by NASA-Voyager. The complex interactions of charged electromagnetic particles from the solar wind , planetary magnetosphere etc. create vibration "soundscapes". It sounds very interesting, even scary. Jupiter is mostly composed of hydrogen and helium. The entire planet is made of gas, with no solid surface under the atmosphere. The pressures and temperatures deep in Jupiter are so high that gases form a gradual transition into liquids which are gradually compressed into a metallic "plasma" in which the molecules have been stripped of their outer electrons. The winds of Jupiter are a thousand metres per second relative to the rotating interior. Jupiter's magnetic field is four thousand times stronger than Earth's, and is tipped by 11° degrees of axis spin. This causes the magnetic field to wobble, which has a profound effect on trapped electronically charged particles. This plasma of charged particles is accelerated beyond the magnetosphere of Jupiter to speeds of tens of thousands of kilometres per second. It is these magnetic particle vibrations which generate some of the sound you hear on this recordin

"What Exactly is an Elohim?"
www.thedivinecouncil.com...

i have a little pet theory that satan is really SET-AN.
set was the serpent god of egypt.
an is a generic god name in both egypt and mesopotamia. it means heaven.
so set-an is the serpent god of mesopotamian-egyptian heaven.
it also have at least 2 meanings: heaven (the sky) and heaven (the abode of the gods). the abode of the gods therefore has at least 2 meanings. the symbols cross reference each other.

oh and here's a bit about the serpent (dragon/seraph/nachash) in the heavens:

Revelation 12:

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

that's a multilayered verse. there's alot more data in it than you might imagine, including the description of a third of precession of the equinoxes



i'm not saying that i don't believe venus plays a role in all this, as i'm pretty sure it does! what i'm saying is, that the symbols don't nullify one another, they further describe each other in various ways, some related to events in history and some related to events in the future. the astronomy layer specifies time passage and calendar dates, and how these things apply to the metaphorical figures and the real entities or people they represent.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


I am not sure if I agree with the association of Lucifer with Venus. I respect your devotion to this subject but feel that you are putting this to us as a fact. It is not a fact but only a view by some authors and yourself.

All too often we associate the pentagram with black magic. In fact the Pentagram is a powerful tool for good. In a deliberate attempt to tune into the evil side, you may reverse the pentagram. This is the same as a satanist holding the cross upside down.

I will check whether Venus conjoins the Sun five times at the points you mention using the astronomical ephemeris. If it does do that then there is a significant relationship between the earth and Venus but that would not mean there is a connection with Satan. The Pentagram in itself has no connection with Satan ot lucifer.

Keeping an open mind however , let's see the case for it. Yes, Venus does reflect the Sun strongly. It is often the brightest planet. That accords with Lucifer/lightbringer/morning star notion; stealing a bit light from the Sun. But we're are told that Lucifer had no connection with the Devil in the new testament. It is only is post-new testament writing that the connection is made.

Now , traditionally, Satan is associated with Saturn. It will be very difficult to take away that correspondence. Not only will it clash with folklore, it will also go against a workable Esoteric system.

I am aware that there are a lot of people that try to disprove many theories and debunk many things. Sadly they often take a notion that works and replace it with something chaotic.

I for one have no intention of debunking symbolic meanings that have been around for centuries. Few people understand Symbols. The real secret of symbols is that they are inter-changeable.

Academic and intellectual debunking of sacred symbols has nothing to offer. It is like saying that Fire has been debunked because the lighter has been invented.








[edit on 9-5-2010 by crowdedskies]

reply to post by crowdedskies


Agreed, thanks for clearing this up for some people.

Originally posted by rationaluser

Originally posted by muzzleflash

You are aware that strength in numbers isn't a good point to argue from many people once thought witch's wizards and dragons were real. I challenge you to find me ONE person that believes in those 3 and has viable proof of their existence. And you state that satan is a fact? well you know what to do YOU are making the assertion so YOU have to find the evidence to convince me (an atheist) beyond all reasonable doubt that satan (lucifer) is real... Good luck with that

Witches and Dragons, that is your idea of comparison?

It is not a matter of thinking, but a mere matter of faith. You think too much to have faith, plain and simple. Your spirit is starving for wisdom that you refuse to feed it because you are too ignorant to accept anything unless your own two eyes see it or somebody spells it out for you. The earth is the center of the universe because there's no proof that it isn't... oh wait.

You are a beast of the world just like me and every one else, we will perish back into the earth at death and our bodies will become food for nature. It is your spirit that is undying and lives on, you can say you don't believe because nothing can convince you all you want, but it is YOU that needs to convince yourself. It is your CHOICE to be an atheist, it is my CHOICE to have faith in my spirit and it is my CHOICE to walk through life with that faith. "Oh unfaithful generation, how long will I put up with you?".

You chose to be a lost soul simply because your head is too big to believe in something so simple, unfaithful one. "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"

Now go be happy and care free and worry little about your soul. When the day comes and you find it too late to believe who is the fool now? If you pass on before that day comes, then who did you trick but yourself?

I'll leave you with this as a reminder to what lies beyond our realm of life, our fishbowl of a reality.
www.youtube.com...

I admit before I begin this post that I have not read the entire thread so if someone has hit on this already then I apologize. I was considering making this a thread of its own but since this issue was brought up in my thread I have decided to bring this up here.

I again say that I do not purposely want to come off sounding like a holier than thou Pharisee. I know that this is not a Christian website and that I am not surrounded by committed Christians here. Christ however ate with sinners and I am here to break spiritual bread with all of you.

The problem with this thread is that it is written without spiritual discernment. You must be born of the Spirit to understand Spiritual matters and be able to discern between good knowledge and corrupted knowledge.

I have no problem at all with believing that Isaiah 14:12 was written about the king of Babylon. What is of greater importance however is that...

Ephesians 6:12 -
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[a] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

While the king is being addressed it is really the spirit of Antichrist within him that is the culprit. Biblical patterns repeat themselves! What has been is what will be!

The same spirit of boastfulness that existed in Lucifer is the same spirit that existed in this king and pride comes before the fall. The argument that Satan is not a fallen angel by account of the corrupted knowledge of this thread is completely trumped by the eyewitness account of Jesus Christ Himself...

Luke 10:17-19
18 And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Angels are held in comparison to stars in multiple places through the Scriptures. The Word is like a two edged sword with a literal meaning and a spiritual interpretation or reality. Stars are a physical manifestation or representation of very real spiritual beings.

Let me ask you a question. If Satan were confined in the pit of hell then how would it be true that...

Ephesians 2:1-3
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

How could Satan be the prince of the power of the air and how could we war against powers in heavenly places if Satan and his angels were confined in hell?

There are 3 heavens. The atmosphere, the outer space and then the kingdom of God in the spiritual realm. Satan was booted from the spiritual heaven where he was at one time a mighty Cherub who watched over the throne of God. Lucifer who is now the Satan has fallen from his original estate but is still mighty in the heavens until he again falls as described in the book of Revelation.

It is NOT a wrong interpretation that we find in our Holy Bible. Isaiah 14 is correct and reveals a spiritual truth. I urge you to surrender your lives to Christ and become His child.

Amen.

I believe the OP is correct but its a misnomer that the origin of Lucifer is Latin. Its not - it appears to be Greek. The earliest reference I can find to Lucifer is in Plato's Timaeus, written in the 4th century BC. In it he writes about the orbits of Hermes and Lucifer - clearly referring them to mean Mercury and Venus. Unless someone can find an earlier written example of Lucifer then that is what I take it to mean. Some how it made its way into one of the bibles but it has been correctly removed from most Bibles today.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Unity_99
Also if you look at the pentagram, and note that its two intercepting triangles

Um, no it's not. That's a hexagram that's the intersection of two triangles... 6 points, not 5. Basic geometry...

Nice of you to clear that up, but I thought I would add it is also the Star of David.

Ciao

Shane

This thread kicks ass!

reply to post by Shane


Yes, its all in the coding. And Is Ra El, is Isis Ra And El/Saturn/Osiris. These mystery school guys have been mismanaging the show for ages, and currently do so via Rome/Jesuits/Illuminati/Zionists and Bloodlines.

They have coded everything to Saturn and the dark star and tried to make willing sacrifices to sungods and dump karma on everyone. But they don't understand that there is nothing that gave them some equal position to the keepers of time, they are not special, they are being tested too, that everyone is only tested on the meaning of things in their heart, adn their ability to love. That duality = a school with night/day, stars/dwarf stars birth/death, but NOT the choices we make. The good or bad actions are the things that get graded.

They're not off the hook.

What a trip---I just heard Michael Tsarion talking about this in an interview a couple of days ago! He said so much of this stuff has been lost in translation or deliberately altered in its meaning that most followers have no idea what these terms originally stood for, nor what the supposed characters behind them represented.