athiests! why christianity?

Attention to those who are not answering the question in the OP:

The OP asked a rather simple, easy to follow question. It appears as though most of you would rather get into a juvenile name-calling war over who's right and who's wrong, than directly answer the OP.

It's a fair question to ask and bring to light, and if no ''serious'' answers are given, then I guess it makes a lot of people look rather ''stupid'', wouldn't you say?

My take on this is exactly as follows: Atheists have their own ''god'', don't let them fool you in thinking otherwise. His name is Richard Dawkins.



That was meant to be a light-hearted joke, by the way. Don't wanna step on any toes...

Cheers.

Originally posted by truthbringsfreedom777
Attention to those who are not answering the question in the OP:

The OP asked a rather simple, easy to follow question. It appears as though most of you would rather get into a juvenile name-calling war over who's right and who's wrong, than directly answer the OP.

Yup, that is the Christians for ya. The rest of us have been addressing the OP just fine but the Christians seem to have to keep resorting to personal attacks and silly quabbling.

It's a fair question to ask and bring to light, and if no ''serious'' answers are given, then I guess it makes a lot of people look rather ''stupid'', wouldn't you say?

My take on this is exactly as follows: Atheists have their own ''god'', don't let them fool you in thinking otherwise. His name is Richard Dawkins

That was meant to be a light-hearted joke, by the way. Don't wanna step on any toes...

Cheers.

So after complaining that no one is answering the question in the OP, refuse to answer it as well?

reply to post by truthbringsfreedom777

It's a fair question to ask and bring to light, and if no ''serious'' answers are given, then I guess it makes a lot of people look rather ''stupid'', wouldn't you say?

I understand 13 pages is quiet a bit of reading material, but if you take the time and patience to dig through everything you will see that the main persons talking have already answered the OP's question and are pursuing other lines of discussion that has popped up as a result of those answers as well as discussing new questions that have arisen since the OP's main question.

Kinda makes a certain someone look silly and their argument rather pointless for not bothering to read, huh?

reply to post by K J Gunderson


"So after complaining that no one is answering the question in the OP, refuse to answer it as well?"

I wasn't at all complaining per say, I was merely observing what has been going on in this thread, and it's rather disappointing, to say the least.

You say that the Christians posting in this thread are the only ones straying from the OP, correct? I'm sorry, but I say that is false. It's actually a pretty equal combination of both the Christians AND the Atheists, from what I have observed.

Anyway, I am not entitled to answer the OP question, because I'm not an Atheist, FYI. Nor am I a Christian, although I was raised as one as a kid, and have since ''found'' my own beliefs.

In short, I consider myself to be a very 'spiritual' individual, and am not involved in any organized religion whatsoever.

The bottom line as I see it, IMHO:

The OP question, while being a pretty fair question to ask and address, is a question in which will do nothing more than cause yet another ''Christians vs Atheists'' debate thread, unfortunately. And, as everybody is aware, these debates always go in continuous circles, and amount to absolutely nothing but a bunch of bickering back and forth, and so on and so forth...

These exact discussions are a waste of time on both ends, and there's more ''proof'' of this than anything else being discussed here. The fact that Atheists seem to focus their attention towards Christianity is because Christianity is the world's biggest religion with the largest amount of believers world-wide, which I realize has already been mentioned. There are countless other religions out there that are also ''sitting ducks'' to the same amount of Atheist ridicule, no?

I have to agree that I hardly ever notice ATS Atheists specifically targeting Muslims, or making fun of Mohammed in the same way they make fun of The Bible, Jesus, ect. Maybe it's because they're scared to death that they'll get murdered by some Muslim extremist group for openly ridiculing their religion. Or maybe it's because they see Christians as a much ''easier'' target, due to the fact that they realize that whatever they say against them, there will be no serious ''repercussions'' involved.

Whichever way you look at it, nobody really ''wins'' in the long run. Let the Atheists be. Let the Christians be. Let the Muslims be. Let every single other relgion out there be. Why? Because ''actions speak louder than words''. Just my honest personal opinion, take it or leave it.

Cheers.

reply to post by sirnex


"I understand 13 pages is quiet a bit of reading material, but if you take the time and patience to dig through everything you will see that the main persons talking have already answered the OP's question and are pursuing other lines of discussion that has popped up as a result of those answers as well as discussing new questions that have arisen since the OP's main question."

I have taken this into account, and yes, my mistake. I guess it's inevitable that there will be other lines of discussion when such a question such as the OP is asked. Should have worded my post differently - my apologies!

FYI, I am going to uni with a member of the Bahraini royalty...and I told him Islam is wrong, lol. He's still coming for drinks with me, and last I checked I'm still alive...oh, and guess what, a Jew's regularly joining us too, and IT'S NOT A PROBLEM.

The PROBLEM are those annoying extremists!

[edit on 11-5-2010 by MrXYZ]

reply to post by truthbringsfreedom777


I know this particular post wasn't directed towards me but I do feel the need to point out something.

I was merely observing what has been going on in this thread, and it's rather disappointing, to say the least.

This is contradictory to the reply you had just given me. You had just told me that you hadn't taken into account the replies to the OP's questions we've already made many pages ago while at the same time still holding to your previous statement that we haven't answered the OP at all?

You say that the Christians posting in this thread are the only ones straying from the OP, correct?

Where are you getting that from in his rather short reply to you? He never generalized that the Christians weren't answering a question geared towards the Atheists. What he had done was point out the hypocrisy in your argument that the Atheists weren't answering the question whilst not answering it yourself.

Anyway, I am not entitled to answer the OP question, because I'm not an Atheist, FYI. Nor am I a Christian, although I was raised as one as a kid, and have since ''found'' my own beliefs.

In short, I consider myself to be a very 'spiritual' individual, and am not involved in any organized religion whatsoever.

That's all fine and dandy, but please note the title of the thread and the question given by the OP. What exactly are you in this thread for if you are neither Christian or Atheist. I'm smelling a troll here.

The OP question, while being a pretty fair question to ask and address, is a question in which will do nothing more than cause yet another ''Christians vs Atheists'' debate thread, unfortunately. And, as everybody is aware, these debates always go in continuous circles, and amount to absolutely nothing but a bunch of bickering back and forth, and so on and so forth...

I can't begin to describe how many time's I've been in this same exact discussion and yet in each discussion I always learn something new, this also goes for any repetitive discussion in regards to religion in general. Sometimes, some things are worth doing more than once my friend.

I have to agree that I hardly ever notice ATS Atheists specifically targeting Muslims, or making fun of Mohammed in the same way they make fun of The Bible, Jesus, ect

I've seen a picture of Muhammad's name characterized as a penis. If I wasn't afraid of being banned from the Mods I would absolutely love to post a thread poking fun on how his name does look like a penis.

Maybe it's because they're scared to death that they'll get murdered by some Muslim extremist group for openly ridiculing their religion.

I'm more scared of some little girl getting raped and trying to get an abortion having a Christian fundamentalist shoot at her and her doctor. I'm more afraid (and this has happened many times before to me) taking my kids to a park and seeing Christian fundamentalists holding large pictures of aborted fetuses. I'm more afraid of you Christians than I am of a religious group that is largely on the other side of the pond.

Or maybe it's because they see Christians as a much ''easier'' target, due to the fact that they realize that whatever they say against them, there will be no serious ''repercussions'' involved.

You don't think there is any serious repercussions? OK, let's take god out of our money that you Christians lobbied to have put on it. Let's take out in god we trust out of our pledge of allegiance. Let's allow polygamist and gay marriages. Hell... gay polygamist marriage for that matter! WOO WILL THE FECES FLY!

''actions speak louder than words''

Aye, that they do, which is why many Atheists advocate that we abolish religion as it's actions have certainly spoken loudly for centuries.

Atheism might be far different from Christianity but through my eyes they are both different tones on the same flute.

Forget about "Atheism" forget about "Christianity" the real problem is binning idea's under one ubrella and saying "Ok Im safe here because I know this is right". The truth of the matter is I cannot say that goes does not exist. However I also cannot say he does not exist. Just an idea on the shelf that has no merit in the world today but cannot be disproved as well. However If someone beside me I knew started hearing voices and telling me it was god and so forth I would refer them to a psychologist.

The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting # dead wrong. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a horrible price. If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was. We learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die.

I 100% agree with this statement by Bill Maher!

Originally posted by MrXYZ

The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting # dead wrong. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a horrible price. If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was. We learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die.

I 100% agree with this statement by Bill Maher!

George bush was an idiot! how can he possibly use him as an example! LOL

reply to post by the illuminator


You won a star for that comment!

Both of the Bush's were idiots, this last one though needs to be put in prison for war crimes though... Maybe the other one too, but I was still too young to understand what BS he pulled also.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by sirnex]

Ok, so we still don't have an answer from any atheists as to why they prefer bashing, criticizing, slamming, etc. Christians, yet they do not do so to other religions. So the OP question stands more as a hypocritical indictment on the atheists of the ATS. One person said he even defended the Islamic faith while at the same time slamming the Christians.

So what we have here is a preference for attacks on the Christian faith by atheists. However, if I could be pointed to any thread by an atheist calling into question Islam, point me to it. Otherwise the OP has a good case in exposing you here on the ATS.

Originally posted by Fromabove

Ok, so we still don't have an answer from any atheists as to why they prefer bashing, criticizing, slamming, etc. Christians, yet they do not do so to other religions. So the OP question stands more as a hypocritical indictment on the atheists of the ATS. One person said he even defended the Islamic faith while at the same time slamming the Christians.

So what we have here is a preference for attacks on the Christian faith by atheists. However, if I could be pointed to any thread by an atheist calling into question Islam, point me to it. Otherwise the OP has a good case in exposing you here on the ATS.

Exposing people of what? Criticizing Christianity more frequently than other religions, lol?

It doesn't really change anything, it certainly doesn't validate Christianity. I'm pretty sure if you flat out asked atheists if they think Muslims are more correct than Christians, he'll probably start laughing

reply to post by Fromabove

Ok, so we still don't have an answer from any atheists as to why they prefer bashing, criticizing, slamming, etc. Christians, yet they do not do so to other religions.

OK, so you get answered and you refuse to accept the answer your given. At least we now understand how you mentally process information that disagrees with your personal beliefs on what an answer should be.

Like I asked before, what do you expect?

So the OP question stands more as a hypocritical indictment on the atheists of the ATS.

What?

One person said he even defended the Islamic faith while at the same time slamming the Christians.

Yea, that was me and if you will kindly note that this defense solely rests upon accuracy rather than blatant lies. Islamic faith is not violent by nature anymore than Christianity is violent by nature, but I will bash the adherents who are personally violent by nature and justify such violence with choice verses from their own scriptures.

If this upsets you or confuses you, then I'm sorry. I value accuracy and I can't say much positive things about those who don't.

Ok, so we still don't have an answer from any atheists as to why they prefer bashing, criticizing, slamming, etc. Christians, yet they do not do so to other religions.

OK, so you get answered and you refuse to accept the answer your given. At least we now understand how you mentally process information that disagrees with your personal beliefs on what an answer should be.

Like I asked before, what do you expect?

So the OP question stands more as a hypocritical indictment on the atheists of the ATS.

What?

One person said he even defended the Islamic faith while at the same time slamming the Christians.

Yea, that was me and if you will kindly note that this defense solely rests upon accuracy rather than blatant lies. Islamic faith is not violent by nature anymore than Christianity is violent by nature, but I will bash the adherents who are personally violent by nature and justify such violence with choice verses from their own scriptures.

If this upsets you or confuses you, then I'm sorry. I value accuracy and I can't say much positive things about those who don't.

So what we have here is a preference for attacks on the Christian faith by atheists.

You see, statements like this leads one to assume that the party who made such statements is incapable of simple reading comprehension. What part of "we don't see many Muslims bashing common sense the same way Christians do" is so hard for you to understand? Seriously, must you Christians perpetuate this "All Christians are uneducated and simple minded people" assumption. How about you be the first trend setter and utilize a mediocre of brain power there?

However, if I could be pointed to any thread by an atheist calling into question Islam, point me to it.

Seriously? You want us Atheists to bitch at the Muslims for worshiping the same deity you worship? Are Christians that unintelligent and shallow?

Otherwise the OP has a good case in exposing you here on the ATS.

Dude, all of us Atheists currently in this thread have ALREADY answered the OP's very specific question. It's not fault of us Atheist's if you can't read.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by sirnex]

Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by sirnex

 

Jesus is only and always about love, foregiveness, and enjoying your life.

I think God is judgemental.

As in...we go to Hell, or we go to Heaven.

I think we go where we belong.

Hypothetically, if God is truly real then a belief such as yours will surely bound you to hell. Your breaking Gods commandments by worshiping Jesus over him and by taking Jesus as your God instead of God as your God.

Jesus was teaching us how we needed to get back on track of God's plan for us, not to worship Jesus himself as God or to take God's name in such vain as you are doing. If you truly believe all these thing's, then be careful where you tread. Jesus is not God as only God can be God and if God exists and is judgmental, then your beliefs will be ill judged by God and heaven will not be your reward for ill spoken beliefs against God's power.

What you are not understanding or just refusing to believe is that we are not worthy of God. If we were worthy of God his Son would not have been sent to us. By his death he has made it possible to have someone in heaven that is willing to teach us and urge us to stop and think about our actions because lets face it, there are consequences to every action we take. Whether they are good consequences or bad consequences depend on our own choice of action. Free will if you will.

One could say that someone who claims to follow Christ doesn't really follow Christ. But if one does not know Christ himself, he cannot make such a claim. The reason should be obvious as to why.

To know Christ is to believe in Christ. If you say you do not believe in Christ then you actually have no true idea of what Christ is saying, because you do not know him.

Okay I am going to quote a source from the bible. This is what Christians believe and hold true.

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in the time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands: 2-12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 2-13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 2-14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 2-15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man,so making peace; 2-16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 2-17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 2-18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 2-19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 2-20 And are built upon the foundation of the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 2-21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto a holy temple in the Lord: 2-22 In who ye also are builded together for a habitation of God through the Spirit.

I hope you read that, because there is no way I could say it any simpler, any better, or any truer.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by Conclusion]

[edit on 12-5-2010 by Conclusion]

reply to post by sirnex

Yea, that was me and if you will kindly note that this defense solely rests upon accuracy rather than blatant lies. Islamic faith is not violent by nature anymore than Christianity is violent by nature

Lol. What?

Show me anywhere in the new testament where it says that we as people, not God, should kill someone.

Islam sprang up after Christianity. I think we can agree on that. Christ preached peace.

If you believe Islam does not believe in killing non-believers take a look at this.

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Question:

Does the Qur'an really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?

Summary Answer:

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

These verses are mostly open-ended, meaning that the historical context is not embedded within the surrounding text - as are nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Qur'an.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. This proclivity toward violence - and Muhammad's own martial legacy - has left a trail of blood and tears across world history.

reply to post by Conclusion

Show me anywhere in the new testament where it says that we as people, not God, should kill someone.

Are you seriously going to give me a link that takes verses out of context in an attempt to spread disinfo? Man, you really didn't listen to Jesus did you?

I suppose you hate your mother, father, brothers and sisters since you follow Jesus.

See how stupid it is to take a message out of context?

Let's take it's first example of so called violence.

Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

What does the verse say?

PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

What comes before that?

PICKTHAL: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

Surely we should not arbitrarily take choice verses out of context and impart our own meaning into them to suit an agenda...

Luke 19:27
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

Or should we do as such and call it a valid argument?

reply to post by Conclusion

Okay I am going to quote a source from the bible. This is what Christians believe and hold true.

*sigh*

In the OT, how did God say you should worship him?

Please list all extant verses that prove the Messiah was to do away with this *only* way through God and become the intermediary go to guy.

Please list all extant verses that prove the Messiah was to usher in a new religion of followers who worshiped him.

Please list the first four of the ten commandments.

What Christians believe is not necessarily what God wants them to believe, which is why the Jews are still Jews.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by sirnex]

Gday,

Originally posted by Fromabove
Ok, so we still don't have an answer from any atheists as to why they prefer bashing, criticizing, slamming, etc. Christians, yet they do not do so to other religions.

In fact there have been many answers, but you simply ignored them.

Various posters pointed out that as Christianity is the most common religion, so it gets the most attacks. You ignored that whole point.

Others, myself included pointed out that there ARE some attacks in Islam, the Koran, and Mohamed right here on the is thread. You ignored all that, and never even bothered to search.



K.

So, I'm a ''troll'' according to someone for giving my personal opinion on this discussion and not being either an Atheist or a Christian?

If I happen to contradict myself unintentionally and mistakenly, I am automatically labelled a troll as well? Seriously?

Well, as Ace Ventura said, ''Allllll-righty then.''

Yes, Christians can be wild & crazy extremists, too. So, is it entirely their religion's fault, or their own fault for using such twisted logic in order to justify murdering people? I would have to say the latter. I grew up Christian the first 19 years of my life, and the general view of abortion that most people had in my church at the time was that it was ''the wrong thing to do''. There were no sermons preaching that we should strap on some C4 and invade the local abortion clinic and kill every doctor inside. Are there actual Christian churches out there that directly preach this kind of nonsense? Look at Westboro Baptist Church. Those people couldn't be further from the ''truth'', and they're also Christian extremists, but in a whole different way. In turn, they make the rest of the Christian population look like complete morons. Not exactly a big shocker.

Anybody who calls themself a Christian knows that killing people in the name of God is ridiculous. The people that practice this are mental, and they use their religion as an excuse to carry out these actions, and like to think that their actions are totally justified because of their religious beliefs.

Anybody from any religion on this planet can mis-understand what their religion teaches, twist it around to fit into their own agenda, and do their own version of what they think their God would ''approve'' of.

It's sickening and sad.

By the way, I didn't realize that I had to be either an Atheist or a Christian in order to be able to post my thoughts/observations in this thread. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to head back under the ol' bridge down by the creek, so I can continue terrorizing children.

Cheers.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by truthbringsfreedom777]