If Jesus was so important...

Howdy! Hope everyone is doing well!

Two quick questions for you all! If Jesus was so important..

1. Why do we not know the exact day Jesus was born?

2. Why do we not know the exact day Jesus died?

Surely if Jesus was such an important person to his followers you would think they would write down and want to remember the exact date of his birth and date, wouldn't they?

Or am i assuming too much? I have always wondered this.

We know when Julies Ceaser was born:
en.wikipedia.org...

We know the birthdate of every Roman leader:
en.wikipedia.org...

Also Alexander the Great:
en.wikipedia.org...

Even Muhammed we know the date of death:
en.wikipedia.org...

I am not that familiar with the Hebrew Calendar, but here is a little information:

The calendar is used to reckon the Jewish New Year and dates for Jewish holidays, and also to determine appropriate public reading of Torah portions, Yahrzeits (dates to commemorate the death of a relative), and daily Psalm reading, among many ceremonial uses. Originally the Hebrew calendar was used by Jews for all daily purposes. Following the conquest of Jerusalem by Pompey in 63 BCE (see also Iudaea province), Jews began additionally following the imperial civil calendar (which was decreed in 45 BCE) for civic matters such as the payment of taxes and dealings with government officials.

So they were using the calendar to figure out the new year, holidays, public readings and dates of deaths.

It appears at the time of Jesus, when a person dies you are suppose to save the date and have a ceremony exactly a year later:

en.wikipedia.org...

The Yahrtzeit falls annually on the Hebrew date of the deceased relative's death according to the Hebrew calendar.

So it appears safe to say they were following the calendar. I just recently watched a documentary by James Cameron called "The Lost Tomb of Jesus" which they claim that in Jewish tradition at the time of Jesus, when a person dies they put their body in a tomb for one year to let the body decompose and then put their bones in an a box. If this is the case, and Jesus was a very important person, wouldn't you think that someone would have recorded his birthdate?

Oh and i forgot, if Jesus was magically born from a virgin mother, wouldn't the locals be quite amazed at this and want to take record of this?

reply to post by BeastMaster2012

If you go to the Star of Bethlehem website you will find credible historic and astronomical answers to both questions.

www.bethlehemstar.net...

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


He wasn't important during his time. Think about it, he was the illegitimate son of a carpenter and a virgin and was born in a stable. He grew up to have twelve followers one of which betrayed him and he died in his mid-thirties.

A kid born in a stable just wasn't as important as the rulers of the most powerful empire the world has ever known.

The exact date of birth, we don't know. There are not very good records from that time or even a 100+ years ago, as stated elsewhere..there is no written proof my great grandmother existed...but I assure you she did.

As for date of death, day before Passover began..we know that much. The year, debatable but certainly can be pinned down to the reigning Governor Pontius Pilate.

As important as Jesus is/was, He wasn't that important at the time of his death...a poor rebellious carpenter/ philosopher promoting sedition against Rome... that's all, or so they thought.

There are examples of famous people that lived closer to our time period, and we aren't sure of B-Days or even places of birth or death. ...ie Blackbeard/Edward Teach...Abe Lincoln... Davy Crockett... Billy the Kid/ William Bonney. Why should we be suprised at a life from 2000 years ago?

Many spiritual beings of a much higher status than Jesus are in the same boat. This is because they are not valued by the masses of their time. The ones recording for posterity where serving the worldly interest. They where what was valued by the people with the scribes.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


Also our entire calendar is based on his birth. He was born in 1 A.D.

B.C. stands for Before Christ, A.D. stands for Anno Domini, Latin for 'in the year of the Lord'.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012

Jesus was not important to society, scholarship or the ruling elite...
...nothing has changed really.

That was the way He was designed to be.

"...Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:" 1 Corinthians 1:23-28

And every skeptic and debunker on ATS proves God's method true.

As far as the locals wondering about the virgin birth, maybe it just wasn't presented that way, or if it were, no one believed it and just assumed mother Mary had a moment of weakness. ???

I still wonder why Jesus did not write anything down, to be guarded and passed on by at least one trusted disciple, then saved until now. I would like to see exactly what he thought at the time, in writing. He could have saved a scroll or two for us imo.

i'll tell yall that this was cleerly the devils falt and thats a fact and the evidance is that we dont not no the brthday. Probabbly the devil posessed all the men back then to prevent them from riting it down on paper. Why try and think any other reason as thinkin any other reason is unsmart, OK?. This reason is the most smartest so take that as FACT yall.



[edit on 7-5-2010 by lemonfresh]

reply to post by mark_price


I'm not entirely sure Jesus knew how to write. Back then very few people could read or write.

Originally posted by lemonfresh
i'll tell yall that this was cleerly the devils falt and thats a fact and the evidance is that we dont not no the brthday. Probabbly the devil posessed all the men back then to prevent them from riting it down on paper. Why try and think any other reason as thinkin any other reason is unsmart, OK?. This reason is the most smartest so take that as FACT yall.



[edit on 7-5-2010 by lemonfresh]

Well that settles that then, it's clearly the most smartest theory out there.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by hippomchippo]

reply to post by Nosred


Well...
He probably was a smooth talker and he could do his own furniture.
A quality you still see today in creative people with a lot of male friends.

Originally posted by Nosred
reply to post by mark_price

 

I'm not entirely sure Jesus knew how to write. Back then very few people could read or write.

Although there is no record of Jesus writing except on the ground twice...
...Jesus could certainly read.

"And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

Gday,

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
The exact date of birth, we don't know. There are not very good records from that time or even a 100+ years ago, as stated elsewhere.

It's not that we aren't sure, the point is that we have VARYING answers - showing it's NOT based on history :

One Gospel has Jesus born before 4BC (G.Matt, Herod),
another has him born after 6AD (Luke, Quirinus).

One Christian writer even says he was born around 100BC (Epiphanius.)

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
As for date of death, day before Passover began..we know that much.

Pardon?
We KNOW that much?
In fact, once again. the Jesus myths have DIFFERENT stories :

G.John has Jesus crucified on the day of preparation (with NO sacramental Passover meal);
but the other 3 Gospels have Jesus crucified on Passover (AFTER a sacramental Passover meal.)

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
The year, debatable but certainly can be pinned down to the reigning Governor Pontius Pilate.

Once again, Christians tell DIFFERENT stories :

Not according to Irenaeus (AH 2:22:6) who has a 50 year-old Jesus crucified in the time of Claudius (41-54 CE.)

Nor according to the Gospel of Peter which has Jesus crucified by Herod Antipas.


Was your grandma born on three different dates, AlreadyGone?



K.

Gday,

Originally posted by Nosred
Also our entire calendar is based on his birth. He was born in 1 A.D.

Really?
Says who?
Have you checked?
The Gospels contradict each other on Jesus' birthdate.
No-one actually knows.
The AD dating system was invented half a millenium later.

Originally posted by Nosred
B.C. stands for Before Christ, A.D. stands for Anno Domini, Latin for 'in the year of the Lord'.

The month named June comes from the God "Juno",
and the day named Thursday comes from the God "Thor".

So what?


K.

Originally posted by jymmyjaymes
As far as the locals wondering about the virgin birth, maybe it just wasn't presented that way, or if it were, no one believed it and just assumed mother Mary had a moment of weakness. ???

In fact, no early Christian, or anyone else, even HEARD about the virgin birth story.

Paul never even mentioned Mary, or any birth stories, or any miracles.
Neither did the other early NT epistles.

When the virgin birth stories DID become widely known, they were ridiculed :

Celsus, late 2nd century :
"Clearly the christians have used...myths... in fabricating the story of Jesus' birth...It is clear to me that the writings of the christians are a lie and that your fables are not well-enough constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction"



K.

Ok thanks for the all the replies.

Now what if Jesus was from some kind of Royal Lineage? I have heard rumors that he could have descended from David and that Mary Magdalene could have also been of Royal Blood. If that is the case than they were probably very important people.

Another thing, if he was so important, why are there 18 years of his life missing? That is very strange. To me it seems like they are trying to cover up something he did or hide places he went.

Gruber and Kersten (1995) claim that Buddhism had a substantial influence on the life and teachings of Jesus.[1] They claim that Jesus was influenced by the teachings and practices of Therapeutae, described by the authors as teachers of the Buddhist Theravada school then living in Judaea. They assert that Jesus lived the life of a Buddhist and taught Buddhist ideals to his disciples; their work follows in the footsteps of the Oxford New Testament scholar' Barnett Hillman Streeter, who established as early as the 1930s that the moral teaching of the Buddha has four remarkable resemblances to the Sermon on the Mount."[2]

Some scholars believe that Jesus may have been inspired by the Buddhist religion and that the Gospel of Thomas and many Nag Hammadi texts reflect this possible influence. Books such as The Gnostic Gospels and Beyond Belief: the Secret Gospel of Thomas by Elaine Pagels and The Original Jesus by Gruber and Kersten discuss these theories.

I am reading about the Therapeutae, and it seems like Jesus may have studied with them. I have been a big fan of Buddhism for the last few years because of how peaceful the teachings are and to me it seems like Jesus could have easily been studying a form of Buddhism.

en.wikipedia.org...

According to the linguist Zacharias P. Thundy the word "Theravada" may have been Hellenized into "Therapeutae", to name a coenobitic order near Alexandria described around the 1st century CE. The similarities between the Therapeutae and Buddhist monasticism, combined with Indian evidence of Buddhist missionary activity to the Mediterranean around 250 BC (the Edicts of Asoka), have been pointed out. The Therapeutae would have been the descendants of Asoka's emissaries to the West, and would have influenced the early formation of Christianity.[39] However, the Macmillan Encyclopedia of Buddhism[40] states that theories of influences of Buddhism on early Christianity are without historical foundation.

I had no idea that Buddhism was in Egypt at the time of Jesus. I find this very interesting.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


18 years of his life missing?
I don't believe so.
It's a common knowledge (for those who look for it) - (and no I'm not going to take the time to go look for links at the moment) that Jesus spent those years in India and the regions around India.

I also (strongly) believe this information - and any information - 'back then' about Jesus was trampled on, hidden, scourged and basically gotten rid of.
Why?
The powers that be back then tried to kill him as a child, tried again later and finally succeeded. Why then would they keep info of him around? LOL, they wouldn't.

But India did (keep info on Jesus) and I also (strongly) believe so has the Catholic Church. Locked down in their vaults, I do believe there's a vast tome of knowledge of the travels Jesus made in those years. But, the Pope and his minions would rather the word didn't get out that Jesus spent his time communing and praying with Buddhists, etc, and embracing Eastern Religions.

reply to post by silo13


Thanks for the reply. I am going to watch this movie:

www.jesus-in-india-the-movie.com...

I had always had a feeling that Jesus had gone to the east. I was not raised a certain religion although my mother is Jewish and my father is from christian background who now is a Unitarian and i had an awesome girlfriend who introduced me to Buddhism and i felt the connection between Jesus and Buddhism is very strong.

From a historical stand point i find Jesus very fascinating. I was shocked at how much hate there is for the jews when Jesus himself was obviously Jewish and so were all his followers. If anything people should be upset with the Romans and the Roman Catholic Church for killing Jesus.