Stalin’s Ghost Haunts Russia’s Moment of Glory

Stalin’s Ghost Haunts Russia’s Moment of Glory

MOSCOW — As Russians prepare to celebrate the 65th anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany this weekend, an event hallowed here as the unalloyed triumph of good over evil, a major question still looms: what should be done about Stalin?

The passionate debate over Stalin, wartime hero or murderous tyrant, flared Friday when President Dmitri A. Medvedev lashed out against his legacy.

“Stalin committed massive crimes against his own people,” Mr. Medvedev said in remarks released Friday. “Despite how hard he worked and the successes achieved under his leadership, what he did to his own people cannot be forgiven.”

Boy the world has changed. I was reading this and the Russians are in a pickle. I wonder how exactly now that many Russian people know more and more about Stalin how THEIR history will remember him. Ultimately IMHO other countries views are unimportant as far as I'm concerned. How long before Mao get's the Chinese version of the historical hot-seat.

Many here in the US have certain US Presidents they despise. That goes without saying. To be honest I was surprised to hear Medvedev come out swinging.


Your Thoughts?

That's gotta be a sticky situation to find yourself in. He did some good things for Russia, but at the same time you can't just ignore all the bad things he did. It'll be interesting to see how he ends up being remembered years from now and whether Russia will focus more on the positive or negative aspects of his leadership.

Interesting find Slayer. Not very surprising the reprising of Stalin's deeds. Even some of our own history is slanted as not to besmirch the reputations of certain figures. Although this is a fascinating look into how Russia is downplaying the actions of his reign. Considering a few people are still alive that remember his actions and their consequence's, it's a little difficult to change to broadly.

reply to post by SLAYER69

I was surprised to hear Medvedev come out swinging.

Every new leader wants his chance at rewriting history and revisionism?

Older party line Russians might be more willing to forgive Stalin because he united mother Russia and saved the USSR. Younger citizens probably will be more willing to condemn Stalin as a political statement in hopes that respect for human rights and political freedoms will be a part of Russian's future.

This may be comperable to the Germans reaction to the Jewish atrocities. At first it was denied but little by little it was accepted a historical part of Germany's past.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Some people here in the US admire that murderer,he was worse Then Hitler ever wanted to be. But I am glad to here the russians are finally admitting it... Now we Americans must say Lincoln was trash.

Stalin was a monster. God forbid what circle in hell is devoted to him.

reply to post by SLAYER69



Just because Medvedev's Russian -- he's still a politician

So then we remind ourselves what motivates politicians

And we remember the type of personality and character that puts a politician at the top of the heap


So, I don't believe I'm being unnecessarily cynical when I say that Medvedev's outburst demonstrates that the 'knows upon which side his bread is buttered'

Stalin was so loathed by the time he died, that his body was treated with utter disdain. They buried him. Dug him up. Lost him. Buried him again and then cremated him and tossed his remains out like garbage, apparently

It was only last year, if certain 'Russian' forums are to be believed, that Putin was attempting to glorify Stalin -- with strict warnings to those who opposed this

And now we have Medvedev nailing his flag to the pole and stating Stalin was a basically a murderous thug ? Guess from this we can gather that despite his attempts to play pin-up boy, Putin's opinion matters less to voters than he was silly enough to imagine ?

Actually, when I read the thread-title, ' Stalin's Ghost Haunts Russia's Moment of Glory' --- I at first took it literally and hoped I'd learn Stalin's actual ghost was wandering around, moaning and clanking chains

I still hope that's the case. The sub-human sadistic halfwit isn't entitled to a second's peace for at least 40 million earth-years -- one year of penance each for the 40 million he murdered. And he'd still be getting off lightly. Rot in Hell, Stalin

Stalin was a murderous thug, who at the misfortune of the Russian people was able to spread his ooze among the communist elite and ascend to power. He was a prime example of a homicidal maniac who personally signed death warrants for any opposition. He deserves to be scorned and ridiculed by the sitting Russian President Medvedev and the Russian people. What contribution did he make for the Soviet Union defeating Nazi fascism, but kill and deport millions upon millions of his own people. This man deserves praise and homage because he was the reigning leader at the time? Ha! Now, that is a joke.

If we want to remember Stalin, lets think about the 30 or so million of his own people who were will killed under his brutal regime, then how about the gulag prison system, the Soviet Police state, Katyn Massacre, and other departures from the realm of humanity. In other words, he was just as cold-blooded as the men he defeated. His thirst for power and control was unquenchable.

Apparently, some of the elderly from that era feel that Stalin's rule was necessary given the dire circumstances of the time? However, they are only saying that because information was sequestered at the time. It was only after the dissolution of the Soviet Union that the world learned of Stalin's atrocities in detail. Until that time, most of the reports and records were buried away in the Kremlin archives. So, I see the President's depiction of the man as fair and reasonable given Stalin's record before and during the war years. Honor the sacrifices of the Soviet and Russian people, because they alone defeated the Fascist scourge not the leader. One can't change a leopard's spots.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by Jakes51]

reply to post by Jakes51

What contribution did he make for the Soviet Union defeating Nazi fascism, but kill and deport millions upon millions of his own people.

Stop equating Stalin with the sacrifices made in WW2 by Post-Revolutionary Russia.

Great Generals like Georgy Zhukov who led the final assault into Berlin and nailed the coffin of Nazi Germany were not ardent, megalomaniacal Communists.
They deserve equal praise afforded to the likes of Eisenhower, MacArthur or FDR for their efforts in bringing the European Theatre of War to a close.

The same way with hindsight we learned men like Field Marshal Rommel, Colonel von Stauffenberg or Admiral Doenitz not only active opposed Hitler's maniacal schemes but conspired to overthrow him numerous times, you should not look upon the senior leadership of Stalinist Russia as being overwhelmingly corrupt and counter-productive.

Russia suffered more than anyone in WW2, even the victims of the Holocaust (20 million dead Russians is a conservative estimate by most accounts).

[edit on 16/5/10 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

It was only last year, if certain 'Russian' forums are to be believed, that Putin was attempting to glorify Stalin -- with strict warnings to those who opposed this

Indeed. It appears that Putin is cut from the same cloth. When he dies, Putin will occupy the same circle of hell as Stalin. Two assholes on the same rim, as such. Hah.

reply to post by rizla


Well I do not doubt that many aspects of his legacy will be recorded in Russian history as a horrible stain. I am a student of history and I'll have to grudgingly admit that during WWII he was the right man for the job. Who else could of held the Soviet together during that horrific situation.


AGAIN I completely agree with those who see him as you do.

I'm just saying is all.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
reply to post by Jakes51

 

What contribution did he make for the Soviet Union defeating Nazi fascism, but kill and deport millions upon millions of his own people.

Stop equating Stalin with the sacrifices made in WW2 by Post-Revolutionary Russia.

Great Generals like Georgy Zhukov who led the final assault into Berlin and nailed the coffin of the Nazi Germany were not ardent, megalomaniacal Communists.

The same way with hindsight we learned men like Field Marshal Rommel, Colonel von Stauffenberg or Admiral Doenitz not only active opposed Hitler's maniacal schemes but conspired to overthrow him numerous times.

Whoa, brother apply the brakes. I was not equating ol' Joe with the sacrifices made during WWII. On the contrary, I was actually marginalizing his role. You took that statement out of context. I was implying that Stalin should be left out of the VE Day celebrations, and that by doing so, President Dimitry Medvedev made a good call. It was the soldiers and families that sacrificed the most, and not the leaders. They are the ones who deserve praise for defeating Fascism. If one remembers, Stalin was receiving reports about when the German's began Operation Barbarossa, and virtually did nothing. General Zhukov even counseled Stalin on taking a preemptive strike against Germany before the invasion, but was batted down. Moreover, he was even given intelligence about the invasion months before it happened, but Stalin was in denial about the findings.

Stalin's own words scrolled on a recently declassified intelligence report before Operation Barbarossa as shown in the video below from the BBC documentary, "War of the Century." It starts at time (:34)

Comrade Murklov, You can send your source from the headquarters of the German Airforce to his (insert expletive) mother. He is not a source, but a disinformant.

We all know what happened shortly after this complete and utter display of cowardice and inaction, 3 million battled hardened Wehrmacht troops blitzkrieged their way into the Russian interior with seemingly no coordinated resistance. So please, reread my post, and hopefully, you will see what I was trying to say? Stalin deserves no respect or praise. He killed his own people at appalling numbers, and used his armed forces as pawns and cannon fodder.

[edit on 16-5-2010 by Jakes51]

Stalin, Mao, Hitler. They are all the same. Each was central to the attempted adoption of a new social order. Each failed. Each has the blood of millions of people on their hands through both the direct mayhem of the conflicts they presided over and by the numbers of their fellow countrymen their policies snubbed out.

The difference is this.

Germany has long since been reconciled to Hitler and the world knows of his crimes.

Russia still tries to keep Stalin on a pedestal but that is pretty precarious and I have no doubt that with increased openness Russia will being to realise that he was a bastard.

China still hails Mao as some sort of big fluffy bunny who would not hurt a fly. China is of course still run by those who need to keep the truth out of the mainstream – hence internet and press censorship.

We all live and learn. China will learn (as is Russia learning now) that you cannot keep the box closed forever and the crimes of the past will catch up and find expression in the present.

Regards

reply to post by paraphi


That was short and to the point.
Very well written. Thank you for that reply. I wrote this thread right during the Mayday celebration, while everybody who had never seen the "Parade" before were amazed at the hardware and military display.



Meanwhile many of us who have had seen many of that type of demonstrations in the past, [Cold WAR]= Age Gap, were not as awe struck or impressed. So this thread did not get the traffic it could have. Thank you for your reply