10 Astronauts that beleive in the Extraterrestrial presence!

Originally posted by tigpoppa

Originally posted by expat2368
reply to post by tigpoppa

 

Come on now, gimme a break.

10 or more highly trained astronauts say they saw evidence of ET ships while they were in space and you have the kahunas to make comments like that about them?

I am curious who died and left you to say the final word about anything those people who risked their lives in space exploration said or did?

I will never understand as long as I live why this particular subject brings out people who totally refuse to believe even when faced with testimony from sources like the astronauts. Interesting thing is those are the very people that when ET finally lands will go bonkers, jump out of windows and off bridges. The rest of us will just say "about time" and go on about our lives.

If you go to any retirement home you will hear all kinds of stories. That doesnt make them true. one time I had a guy tell me that the government took his children and put them on the moon. These rantings by the elderly dont make them true, I think its a shame that other people are capitalizing on the mutterings of these older people who should be left alone and forgotten about instead of exploited.

Ummmmm... weren't most of these comments made while they were still young and spry? (or, at least recalling thoughts OF that time, regardless of age)

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
Ummmmm... weren't most of these comments made while they were still young and spry? (or, at least recalling thoughts OF that time, regardless of age)

The "narrative drift" of a story that a person repeats over and over, over a period of decades, is a well-known effect and most students of oral histories recognize it. But I don't think it's fair to simply 'assume' it happens for any particular person, without indications that such and such a person has demonstrated verifiable occasions of succumbing to it on other checkable stories.

The sad aspect of Gordon Cooper's stories is both psychological and medical. After he was dismissed from the astronaut corps when his colleagues realized he couldn't handle the more advanced Apollo-era spaceships (while NASA maintained the 'right stuff' hero worship stories for its own bureaucratic self-aggrandizement), he retreated into bitter resentment and isolation. He loaned his rapidly-diminishing reputation to a series of aerospace investment schemes that one after the other went bust, sometimes involving the arrest or flight of the project leaders (Cooper fell for them too -- he lost all his own money, but also talked trusting groups into believing he had verified the projects, so they lost millions too). He began showing up on call-ins to late night TV talk shows during which he intoned 'fatherly advice' for life while the hosts made mocking facial expressions, to howls of delight from audiences. In the end, the only public appearances he was invited to were UFO conventions and UFO-related TV documentaries -- they payed him the adulation he no longer got from anywhere else. People who knew him from his vigorous years and respected his courage and cool-headedness from that era were particularly pained to see his decline, but in general the media was kind enough to keep it mostly under wraps out of respect. When he visited NASA one time to relay a telepathic warning he sincerely believed he had received from space aliens about a fatal design flaw on the space shuttle, he was received gently and thanked graciously, and then treated like the looney uncle many families keep locked in the back closet -- no fuss, no muss, just silence.

But any of his stories he also told in those days about space experiences (on TV or in his book) can be checked and seen to be inconsistent with all other records and recollections, just over-dramatized confabulations that glorified himself, often at the expense of his colleagues.

You cut a guy with a career like that an infinite length of slack, at least in my book, but you don't ever, EVER believe any story he comes up with, wihout double verification.



[edit on 10-5-2010 by JimOberg]

reply to post by JimOberg

When he visited NASA one time to relay a telepathic warning he sincerely believed he had received from space aliens about a fatal design flaw on the space shuttle, he was received gently and thanked graciously

date, time and location of this alleged visit ?

what was the supposed fatal design flaw ?

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by JimOberg

 

When he visited NASA one time to relay a telepathic warning he sincerely believed he had received from space aliens about a fatal design flaw on the space shuttle, he was received gently and thanked graciously

date, time and location of this alleged visit ?

what was the supposed fatal design flaw ?

Good questions. In his book 'Leap of Faith', Cooper describes a drawing of the flaw, given to him by his contact who was the original recipient of the message, that he showed during his Houston visit. Sadly, he does not reproduce the drawing in the book, nor provide the exact dates, and the only contacts he mentions are men who were conveniently dead by the time the story was published.



[edit on 10-5-2010 by JimOberg]

I am sure there are many that have seen UFOs, have had real encounters etc , but dont want the publicity, ridicule and such that go with it, maybe in time we can be more open about these things. I think that time is getting nearer but we are not there yet.

Its not helping if paid disinfo agents / debunkers and non paid debunkers continually troll these threads , and yes most of us know who some of these people are.

The more some people try to debunk things the more they bring suspect on them selves, I mean its one thing to have an opinion, but its another thing to keep hounding and trolling threads for the sole purpose of debunking.

The goverment just loves these guys ,especially when they dont have to pay them.....

See my sig below....

Originally posted by Reevster

I am sure there are many that have seen UFOs, have had real encounters etc , but dont want the publicity, ridicule and such that go with it, maybe in time we can be more open about these things. I think that time is getting nearer but we are not there yet.

Its not helping if paid disinfo agents / debunkers and non paid debunkers continually troll these threads , and yes most of us know who some of these people are.

Well, Reevster, if you really don't have any double-checkable evidence for the claims made at the top of this post, why don't you just admit it instead of whining some sort of lame excuse that the dog ate it.



[edit on 10-5-2010 by JimOberg]

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Reevster

I am sure there are many that have seen UFOs, have had real encounters etc , but dont want the publicity, ridicule and such that go with it, maybe in time we can be more open about these things. I think that time is getting nearer but we are not there yet.

Its not helping if paid disinfo agents / debunkers and non paid debunkers continually troll these threads , and yes most of us know who some of these people are.

Well, Sheevster, if you really don't have any double-checkable evidence for the claims made at the top of this post, why don't you just admit it instead of whining some sort of lame excuse that the dog ate it.

And theres one now....
second line.....

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Reevster

I am sure there are many that have seen UFOs, have had real encounters etc , but dont want the publicity, ridicule and such that go with it, maybe in time we can be more open about these things. I think that time is getting nearer but we are not there yet.

Its not helping if paid disinfo agents / debunkers and non paid debunkers continually troll these threads , and yes most of us know who some of these people are.

Well, Sheevster, if you really don't have any double-checkable evidence for the claims made at the top of this post, why don't you just admit it instead of whining some sort of lame excuse that the dog ate it.

You hav to admit, its not easy for someone to come forward about seeing something strange. They do get ridiculed alot, and it seems the more credible you are, the more ridicule you will get. Put it this way, we all respect buzz for what he has done, also, the skeptics love him too because of his stance o the subject of ufos. If he was to come out tomorrow and say "yes, i did see a disc shapped object while in space" you really think people would believe him? No, they would not. I have seen and read so many stupid explanations on some ufo cases, that make ET a more logical answer than some of these explanations.

So, if i saw a ufo, would i tell people, def not! As i know what i would be in for

Dont get me wrong. I want 100% evidence tht some of these ufos are ET, but the ufo phenomenon is real, and there are some very strange cases out there that, at the moment, defy explanation. But some people cant leave it as unknown, and thats where the stupid explanations come in.

This is not having a go at you mr oberg. In fact, i once hought the nasa transmissions were unexplained, but after stydying both sides of the argument, it was clear to me that wat we were seeing could be explained.

Skeptics are good, but the so called de-bunkers who get a kick out of this, are just as bad as the hardcore believers in my opinion.

reply to post by JimOberg

Good questions. In his book 'Leap of Faith', Cooper describes a drawing of the flaw, given to him by his contact who was the original recipient of the message, that he showed during his Houston visit. Sadly, he does not reproduce the drawing in the book, nor provide the exact dates, and the only contacts he mentions are men who were conveniently dead by the time the story was published.

i admit i haven't read the book so would it be possible for you to describe what Cooper said in the book about the flaw ?

if Cooper didn't provide the exact dates of the supposed visit to "Houston" then how can you arrive at this ...

he was received gently and thanked graciously, and then treated like the looney uncle many families keep locked in the back closet -- no fuss, no muss, just silence.

are those his words or yours ? if they are your words then how can you know the details if the "only contacts he mentions are men who were conveniently dead by the time the story was published." ??

what am i missing there ? LOL and didn't you quit/retire from NASA because of a design/safety flaw ? maybe Cooper wasn't too far off the mark with his message ??


[edit on 10-5-2010 by easynow]

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Skeptics are good, but the so called de-bunkers who get a kick out of this, are just as bad as the hardcore believers in my opinion.

Once you clear out the bunk, the really interesting stuff comes into focus -- because in my view, it's not ALL bunk, although I suspect some people would like the public to think so.

Does that make me a "semi-believer"? Even more dangerous: a GENUINE "believer" in the value of sound 'UFO studies', and not the play-acting make-believe such as found at the top of this thread.

Originally posted by easynow
what am i missing there ? LOL and didn't you quit/retire from NASA because of a design/safety flaw ? maybe Cooper wasn't too far off the mark with his message ??

Good comment.

The problem in establishing credibility of a safety flaw is that most claims the NASA guys saw were spurious -- sort of like the problem in establish the credibility of a UFO report.

The general way that Cooper was treated when he made his visits for his annual physical was known to me from people in the clinic. As for his alleged visit with the 'design flaw', I spoke with engineers in the relevant departments, now retired, who did not remember this specific case but remembered seeing Cooper wandering around from time to time.

You know the person with real, unique insight to Cooper's final days at NASA? Ed Mitchell. He was on the Apollo-10 backup crew with Cooper, when Cooper's performance level was so poor he was removed from flight status and from consideration for any future moon missions. I've asked him for his insights, and he has politely declined to discuss the subject based on privacy considerations, he explains.

As requested, here's the full story of Cooper and the psychic warning:

www.jamesoberg.com...

Originally posted by expat2368
reply to post by tigpoppa

 

I will never understand as long as I live why this particular subject brings out people who totally refuse to believe even when faced with testimony from sources like the astronauts. Interesting thing is those are the very people that when ET finally lands will go bonkers, jump out of windows and off bridges. The rest of us will just say "about time" and go on about our lives.

Many skeptics probably fear the unknown or fear the ridicule that they assume they will receive if they admit they are believers.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Anunaki10
reply to post by JimOberg

 

www.space.com...

www.syti.net...

"One of the original Mercury Astronauts and the last American to fly in space alone. On May 15, 1963 he shot into space in a Mercury capsule for a 22 orbit journey around the world. During the final orbit, Major Gordon Cooper told the tracking station at Muchea (near Perth Australia) that he could see a glowing, greenish object ahead of him quickly approaching his capsule. The UFO was real and solid, because it was picked up by Muchea's tracking radar. Cooper's sighting was reported by the National Broadcast Company, which was covering the flight step by step; but when Cooper landed, reporters were told that they would not be allowed to question him about the UFO sighting."

Oh, THAT story? Why on Earth -- or anywhere in the Universe -- should anybody believe it? Who is the source of this claim? Has Cooper himself ever backed this claim?

As you can see it is mentioned that Cooper encountered the Green UFO while in space, yes yes yes, bingo, Touch Down.

It's even also on this web page www.zipworld.com.au...

I will see if i can find eventually info if Cooper should had mentioned it on other occasions...

[edit on 11-5-2010 by Anunaki10]

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Anunaki10
reply to post by JimOberg

 

www.space.com...

www.syti.net...

"One of the original Mercury Astronauts and the last American to fly in space alone. On May 15, 1963 he shot into space in a Mercury capsule for a 22 orbit journey around the world. During the final orbit, Major Gordon Cooper told the tracking station at Muchea (near Perth Australia) that he could see a glowing, greenish object ahead of him quickly approaching his capsule. The UFO was real and solid, because it was picked up by Muchea's tracking radar. Cooper's sighting was reported by the National Broadcast Company, which was covering the flight step by step; but when Cooper landed, reporters were told that they would not be allowed to question him about the UFO sighting."

Oh, THAT story? Why on Earth -- or anywhere in the Universe -- should anybody believe it? Who is the source of this claim? Has Cooper himself ever backed this claim?

I've just checked up on this interview with Cooper www.v-j-enterprises.com...

"I asked him if he ever saw anything other-worldly while he was in space. >>Nothing,>I don't think so,>Nothing on the moon,

Originally posted by Viper2

Originally posted by expat2368
reply to post by tigpoppa

 

I will never understand as long as I live why this particular subject brings out people who totally refuse to believe even when faced with testimony from sources like the astronauts. Interesting thing is those are the very people that when ET finally lands will go bonkers, jump out of windows and off bridges. The rest of us will just say "about time" and go on about our lives.

Many skeptics probably fear the unknown or fear the ridicule that they assume they will receive if they admit they are believers.

You're clearly not afraid of the ridicule you've earned by confusing what anonymous blowhards dream up and CLAIM that astronauts said, to what the real astronauts really said, when you actually find out. If you ever even try to find out.

Originally posted by Anunaki10
As you can see it is mentioned that Cooper encountered the Green UFO while in space, yes yes yes, bingo, Touch Down.

It's even also on this web page www.zipworld.com.au...

I will see if i can find eventually info if Cooper should had mentioned it on other occasions...

Oh, yes indeedee, Cooper has been quoted regarding this story on the WWW, as cited already...It may be disappointment to you that he repudiates it entirely. I have a 1978-era letter from him to that effect, I probably ought to scan it and post it somewhere.

Thanks re the space detective work kind words -- I find there's a whole universe of genuine space history mysteries needing investigation, and 'UFO reports' are a legitimate part of them, but not because 'UFOs are real' or anything. Many interesting stories deal with what the 'UFOs' turned out to be -- very interesting objects.






[edit on 11-5-2010 by JimOberg]

reply to post by JimOberg


thanks for the pdf link, i remember it now,

good work on getting the info but i think when you bring this particular story up it would help if you made it clear to everyone that Cooper was just relaying the info and wasn't the one who actually received the supposed message from the "transmission". without the proper context it makes Cooper look even more on the fringe then he really was. maybe you want that ? i dunno

As for his alleged visit with the 'design flaw', I spoke with engineers in the relevant departments, now retired, who did not remember this specific case but remembered seeing Cooper wandering around from time to time.

i still think it's wrong for you to say this...

When he visited NASA one time to relay a telepathic warning he sincerely believed he had received from space aliens about a fatal design flaw on the space shuttle, he was received gently and thanked graciously, and then treated like the looney uncle many families keep locked in the back closet -- no fuss, no muss, just silence.

i could be wrong but it seems like your trying to make a factually unsupported connection that Cooper showed up with the relayed message and then was treated like a "looney" when the visits to Houston (mentioned by the engineers you spoke to) , could be completely separate incidents. i think if you don't have the exact date of the supposed visit concerning "the message" and don't really know what the reactions were of the people who were there that day then you might be distorting the truth ?

maybe you want that ? i dunno


[edit on 11-5-2010 by easynow]

Originally posted by easynow
thanks for the pdf link, i remember it now,

good work on getting the info but i think when you bring this particular story up it would help if you made it clear to everyone that Cooper was just relaying the info and wasn't the one who actually received the supposed message from the "transmission". without the proper context it makes Cooper look even more on the fringe then he really was. maybe you want that ? i dunno

So -- believing a ladyfriend has received a telepathic warning from space aliens and then giving it to contacts at NASA -- but NOT putting it in your book for others to assess -- shows you're not YET in Outer Fringeland?

Jeeez Louweeeez, where do you place the boundary vis-a-vis the Psychic Friends Network?

All his other space and UFO related stories from his later years, all of them, are at or beyond that fringiness level.

The bigger question is -- why do uforia promoters positively refuse to do any independent checks on his stories, and withhold any knowledge they may have of checks done by others, in their programs and websites? What degree of mendacity is exhibited by this behavior, and what degree of disrespect does it show they hold for their target audiences?

...and how does it HELP the decipherment of the genuine puzzle of UFO reports?

So far, many pages into this thread, all we have are rumors, make-believe 'insiders', and expressions of deep sincerity in feel-good myths that fuel the feelings of superiority among enthusiasts. It's a recapitulation of 60+ years of 'world ufology', and is just as much a sad waste of time -- when the phenomenon is still out there, demanding disciplined, cold-blooded (and cold-hearted) probing.

reply to post by JimOberg


i didn't say Cooper wasn't already somewhere on the fringe, i posted what i did because of what you wrote about him , the message and the visit to Houston and people seeing him as a "looney" for THAT particular visit. your crying about others reporting distortions but there's a possibility that you are doing the same thing ? don't take this the wrong way, i critiqued what you wrote because you previously said you wanted a discussion on this to fine tune your debate skills and future writings so i thought you would want to see a different perspective.

i don't have any magical answers that will fix all the problems you mentioned.