Containment option for BP oil spill a Lie!

I have the following hypothetical BP discussion on our forum here:
activepatriot.org...

Golf balls and shredded tires to stop the leak?
www.miamiherald.com...
abcnews.go.com...

Really?

So the “Pollution Containment Chamber ” solution isn’t going that well. Who could have seen that one coming? Oh yeah, we did…check out the thread title! So, the next “solution” is to inject golf balls and shredded tires into the BOP to clog it up.

Is this a viable solution? We don’t know. How many oil rigs have crates of golf balls and shredded tires as part of their contingency kits?

The following is a hypothetical conversation which lead to this new plan:

BP executive,
“Good morning gentlemen, in our determined effort to bring this catastrophe under control, I have brought in Wayne Bob, the foremost expert at getting things done”

Wayne Bob,
“Thank ya sir. First, y’all are goin about this all wrong. That there container do hicky ain’t gonna work. It’s Square and y’all’s pipe is round. Hell, my 6 year old son knows that ya can’t put a square box in a round hole! Whatcha need to do is grow a set and stop the damn leak, any fool will tell ya that.”

BP Engineer,
“Um…Mr. Bob, we have been working on possible solutions to that, but we are dealing with a lot of pressure down there. Do you have any ideas?”

Wayne Bob,
Gazes up to the ceiling for a few seconds thinking intently, “GOLF BALLS! Whatcha need to do is put a buncha golf balls in the pipe to stop it up. First, they’re round so they’ll fit. Second, they’re REAL hard!”

BP Engineer,
“Uh, Mr. Wayne. Sir, I don’t think that will work.”

Wayne Bob,
“Son… I been doin stuff like this back when you was 12 beers and seven minutes of heavy petting away from being conceived. Ya ever been hit between the eyes with a golf ball? I’m telling you them things are hard….real hard.”

BP Engineer,
Starting to lose patience, “I agree that golf balls are pretty hard, but I’m trying to tell you that we are dealing with A LOT of pressure here...”

Wayne Bob interupts,
“TIRES!....TRUCK TIRES! Man, you every see what a Peterbilt can haul? Them tires they use got so much pressure in them they can explode like a grenade! Take yer head clean off! Yaa, Steel Belted Tires at that. Boy, ain’t nothing stronger then steel. Still gotta use those golf balls though....they’re round.”

BP Engineer,
“But I’m trying to tell you this is at 5,000 feet”

Wayne Bob,
“Listen son, I’ve done this sorta thing in Montana at 5,000 feet.”

BP Engineer,
Shaking now, “Mr. Bob. Your talking about 5,000 feet above sea level, I’m talking about 5,000 below sea level. It’s totally different.”

Wayne Bob,
“Listen, I don’t know what they taught you at yer fancy engineer school but 5,000 feet is 5,000 feet. You want me to draw it up for you so you’ll understand?”
Walks over to the white boards and writes, “5000 = 5000.”

BP Engineer,
“That’s absolutely ridiculous! Who the hell are you Wayne...Bob? Who the hell has a name like Wayne Bob anyway?”

Wayne Bob,
Speaking coolly, “Listen you snot nosed little egghead, my legal name is Bob Wayne. When I was knee high to a squirrel everyone used to poke fun at me cause my name was too close to John Wayne. When I was old enough to start fillin out forms and stuff, they asked for last name first....Wayne, Bob. And it just kinda stuck with me. Make fun of my name one more time and I’ll go John Wayne on your ass!”

BP Engineer,
“OK, whatever. I’m sorry Wayne. I’m just saying, I don’t think you know the exact pressures involved here. We are 5,000 feet below the surface trying to stop a leak coming up from a pipe another 18,000 feet below that.
That means the pressure coming up the pipe is....... ”

BP Executive cuts off Engineer,
“YOUR FIRED!”
“Mr. Bob….Wayne, whatever your name is, you’re in charge. Get er done!

[edit on 10-5-2010 by ActivePatriot]

I also direct this at the government and the media. Do they really take the golf ball and tire idea seriously? Is this a credible solution or total garbage they are trying to pawn off on an ignorant public.

We don’t know because they will not tell us basic facts about the leak.

We have yet to here a journalist actually probe for these facts:


* What is the actual Depth of the well?
* What is the estimated size of the reservoir?
* What is the estimated pressure at the leak?
* What is the estimated size of the holes in the pipe?


Was the well drilled closer to 25,000 feet Robert Kennedy Jr. alleges in this video?:
videocafe.crooksandliars.com...

BP does have solid information and estimates on this as do some of the various government agencies involved. From the ground, NASA can inspect the shuttle in space for damage to it’s ceramic heat shields. Surely a submersible ROV can view the leak point and estimate hole size.

We would like to see a well known and respected scientist or engineer get up on FOX News, CNN, NBC, ABC and CBS and tell us the pressure at the leak and then tell us this plan will work.

Please share this with others and demand answers to these questions.

ActivePatriot.Org




P.S. Yes we put FOX News first and no, we didn't even bother to put MSNBC on the list. Not a political reason for this, just our opinion on the order of relevance.

reply to post by ActivePatriot


The damage has been done, there is little left to do than to figure out the fastest and best case scenario. But for the most part, I feel there has been some covering behind the scene's of this catastrophe, i.e.:

That assumption — that catastrophic risks were so unlikely they were unworthy of serious attention — appears to have driven a lot of the government decision-making on drilling as well. The Minerals Management Service, a division of the Interior Department, oversees drilling on the Outer Continental Shelf. Since the 1980s, the MMS has routinely granted a Energy companies have aggressively lobbied to avoid formally analyzing worst-case scenariosblanket exemption from doing a comprehensive environmental impact statement to individual drilling operations, according to Holly Doremus, a professor of environmental law at Berkeley. The Washington Post and the Associated Press reported last week that BP’s Deepwater Horizon lease received that exemption (called a “categorical exclusion”) last year. It was based on several analyses that downplayed the risks of a major oil spill. One, published in 2007, estimated the “most likely size” of an offshore spill at 4,600 barrels. NOAA’s current, conservative estimate of the Gulf spill put its total at more than 80,000 barrels, increasing at a rate of 5,000 per day.

The Minerals Management Service has a big part in this scenario, and with the cry for more media intervention of false analogies and rather questionable solutions, the eye should be on the people that are truly allowing thing's of this nature to be nothing more than "Worst case scenario over sights".
Essentially, the MMS would be investigating themselves for this unprecedented situation, and you can't have the same affiliates taking care of the legal aspects, especially when it comes down to accountability.

Energy companies have aggressively lobbied to avoid formally analyzing worst-case scenarios since the Carter administration first required them in instances where there was uncertainty about the risk of disaster.

www.e360.yale.edu...

"How deep does this rabbit hole go?" I do not know personally, but I am willing to wager there is a lot more to come out of this "Worst Case Scenario" reality.

Great thread, S&F...

Why must I go to your website to read your ideas on this subject?

Are you advertising for your website?

I see links to "your forums" and then an offer to go and see information there.

Bad form.

I refuse to ever visit your website now.

reply to post by Mr Mask

Why must I go to your website to read your ideas on this subject?

You don't have to. I have put everything here. Honestly there is not much on my site than here. I always like to source things, this time, I'm sourcing my own site.

Are you advertising for your website?

Slightly, is it better if I "advertise" everyone else's and not mine by linking only to sites other than mine? I have also provided good sources other than our site for info.

edited to add:
Besides, my site uses RSS feeds both in and out. I get most of my traffic from that not this. Not that I get tons of traffic.
:end edit

I see links to "your forums" and then an offer to go and see information there. Bad form. I refuse to ever visit your website now.

You're right, bad form.

From a perspective of a website operator though, doing this stuff is a lot of work. It saves time and double work to comment on things then source work you have already done else where with a link.

If ATS wants to pull my thread for that, I'll have no hard feelings about it.

As far as you never visiting my website. I consider that both our losses.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by ActivePatriot]

reply to post by Allred5923


Thank you very much for an excellent sourced article on the issue.

There is very much more to this issue then the spill. I am working on tying this into the bigger picture. I can't exactly call it a political agenda as that would imply a conflict between Democrats and Republicans on the issue, which is not really true.

Not trying put a teaser, just have to get my sources together.

In honor of Mr Mask, I will even post that here before I put it on our own site. Just this once though!

Originally posted by ActivePatriot
I have the following hypothetical BP discussion on our forum here:
activepatriot.org...

Golf balls and shredded tires to stop the leak?
www.miamiherald.com...
abcnews.go.com...

Really?

So the “Pollution Containment Chamber ” solution isn’t going that well. Who could have seen that one coming? Oh yeah, we did…check out the thread title! So, the next “solution” is to inject golf balls and shredded tires into the BOP to clog it up.

Is this a viable solution? We don’t know. How many oil rigs have crates of golf balls and shredded tires as part of their contingency kits?

The following is a hypothetical conversation which lead to this new plan:

BP executive,
“Good morning gentlemen, in our determined effort to bring this catastrophe under control, I have brought in Wayne Bob, the foremost expert at getting things done”

Wayne Bob,
“Thank ya sir. First, y’all are goin about this all wrong. That there container do hicky ain’t gonna work. It’s Square and y’all’s pipe is round. Hell, my 6 year old son knows that ya can’t put a square box in a round hole! Whatcha need to do is grow a set and stop the damn leak, any fool will tell ya that.”

BP Engineer,
“Um…Mr. Bob, we have been working on possible solutions to that, but we are dealing with a lot of pressure down there. Do you have any ideas?”

Wayne Bob,
Gazes up to the ceiling for a few seconds thinking intently, “GOLF BALLS! Whatcha need to do is put a buncha golf balls in the pipe to stop it up. First, they’re round so they’ll fit. Second, they’re REAL hard!”

BP Engineer,
“Uh, Mr. Wayne. Sir, I don’t think that will work.”

Wayne Bob,
“Son… I been doin stuff like this back when you was 12 beers and seven minutes of heavy petting away from being conceived. Ya ever been hit between the eyes with a golf ball? I’m telling you them things are hard….real hard.”

BP Engineer,
Starting to lose patience, “I agree that golf balls are pretty hard, but I’m trying to tell you that we are dealing with A LOT of pressure here...”

Wayne Bob interupts,
“TIRES!....TRUCK TIRES! Man, you every see what a Peterbilt can haul? Them tires they use got so much pressure in them they can explode like a grenade! Take yer head clean off! Yaa, Steel Belted Tires at that. Boy, ain’t nothing stronger then steel. Still gotta use those golf balls though....they’re round.”

BP Engineer,
“But I’m trying to tell you this is at 5,000 feet”

Wayne Bob,
“Listen son, I’ve done this sorta thing in Montana at 5,000 feet.”

BP Engineer,
Shaking now, “Mr. Bob. Your talking about 5,000 feet above sea level, I’m talking about 5,000 below sea level. It’s totally different.”

Wayne Bob,
“Listen, I don’t know what they taught you at yer fancy engineer school but 5,000 feet is 5,000 feet. You want me to draw it up for you so you’ll understand?”
Walks over to the white boards and writes, “5000 = 5000.”

BP Engineer,
“That’s absolutely ridiculous! Who the hell are you Wayne...Bob? Who the hell has a name like Wayne Bob anyway?”

Wayne Bob,
Speaking coolly, “Listen you snot nosed little egghead, my legal name is Bob Wayne. When I was knee high to a squirrel everyone used to poke fun at me cause my name was too close to John Wayne. When I was old enough to start fillin out forms and stuff, they asked for last name first....Wayne, Bob. And it just kinda stuck with me. Make fun of my name one more time and I’ll go John Wayne on your ass!”

BP Engineer,
“OK, whatever. I’m sorry Wayne. I’m just saying, I don’t think you know the exact pressures involved here. We are 5,000 feet below the surface trying to stop a leak coming up from a pipe another 18,000 feet below that.
That means the pressure coming up the pipe is....... ”

BP Executive cuts off Engineer,
“YOUR FIRED!”
“Mr. Bob….Wayne, whatever your name is, you’re in charge. Get er done!

[edit on 10-5-2010 by ActivePatriot]

LMAO - GREAT POST! S&F!!

Originally posted by ActivePatriot
reply to post by Allred5923

 

Thank you very much for an excellent sourced article on the issue.

There is very much more to this issue then the spill. I am working on tying this into the bigger picture. I can't exactly call it a political agenda as that would imply a conflict between Democrats and Republicans on the issue, which is not really true.

I personally don't take this situation as a "Political Blunder" and see it more as a defunct scenario of holding back the feasible pandemonium this issue can create, the worlds food chain is very much at risk as in "Devastatingly Scary" and if wind was released , which it has been but defused by "Other" aspects of fixing the problem, there are going to be real hardships even after dealing with this. Government understands, both US and EU political power's.
I can tell already that when it comes to a catastrophe such as this, we/they just don't know what to do, and yet they wholeheartedly know they are the one's at fault for the initial problems in the first place.
Our Government has a shady past, especially since the Eisenhower years, I don't expect them to change that kind of karma anytime soon, unfortunately.

Not trying put a teaser, just have to get my sources together.

In honor of Mr Mask, I will even post that here before I put it on our own site. Just this once though!

Mr. Mask has an opinion, got to respect that, but for the most part, I see your method of response and release of the ongoing scenario very efficient and respectable. I also think he is done now...lol

I agree that this is yet another solution, that although it may be feasible, it certainly is not the best possible solution.

If they think this has a chance, then why not go all out and create a newer high tech version that would have an even better chance of working? Why not a Batman style grappling hook complete with a high pressure supply hose and some fast hardening filler? If tires and golf balls have had some success, then why not expand on that with something that would grip the inside of the tube and have a built in capacity to further clog itself? Why not a device with multiple grappling hooks, and expanding anchors or augers? Why not a larger drill bit like they use for foundation repair? Drill an auger into the existing pipe and pump cement or expanding foam into it?

I am glad they are thinking out of the box a little, but I am extremely disappointed in their lack of commitment? If they give me a couple of hundred thousand dollars and command of their equipment, I could get them some results by the end of the week!

A submersible ROV equipped like this seems like a good solution:



Better than golf balls and shredded tires anyway.

Oh, I forget they never planned for an event like this so this does not exist for deepwater operations.

Update PDF from Transocean's CEO Steve Newman testimony in Congress

www.deepwater.com... Hearing%29.pdf?FileName=Newman_Testimony_--_Transocean_--_Senate_Committee_on_Energy_and_Natural_Resources_%285-11-10_Hearing%29.pdf


Notice a bunch of "information", but still no statement as to the pressure in this pipe.

Look at the BOP that is not designed to stop a simple 30 PSI positive pressure.

The pressure is massive!

Again, golf balls and shredded tires are another lie just like that stupid box was.



*Edited mistakenly listed Steve newman as BP CEO, he's Transocean's CEO.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by ActivePatriot]