Is the United States of America even a country?

we have about 300k to 500k immigrants per year. I think we allow quite a lot of legal immigration.

I believe the number is much, much higher. IIRC it's about 1 to 1.4 million per year, as one would expect the Democrats want to increase it to about 2 million per year and also authorize up to 2 million visas per year as well. There is no reason in hell why we would need anywhere near 2,000,000 immigrants plus 2,000,000 visas stayers per year unless they want to destroy the fabric of this country.

If I had my way I would reduce legal immigration to less than 100,000 per year and one must have the equivalent of an associates degree, pass an English competency exam, or have some sort of skill the would benefit the nation (ex. a medical or science degree). The other alternative would be a 6 year tour of duty in the American Foreign Legion ... if you survive the #holes of the world than you and ONLY you get American citizenship (meaning your entire village doesent automatically get to immigrate). No Legion units would be stationed within the continental US but would be garrisoned in US overseas territories and in Alaska and Hawaii.

reply to post by ChrisF231


Yes, I was going by memory, since I posted a number without investigation, here are some stats.

From this site-DHS

Persons Obtaining Legal Permanent Resident Status: Fiscal Years 1820 to 2009

2005 1,122,257
2006 1,266,129
2007 1,052,415
2008 1,107,126
2009 1,130,818

Now, I am sure these numbers do not include all legal immigration.

So, since 1980 we have had 26 Million Legal Permanent Residents alone.

Holy crap. I never knew these numbers were this high!

This does not include naturalized citizens, amongst other legal immigrants.

This also does not include people on visas for work and school.

So how many people are we funneling into the US of A?

If LEGAL immigration is an issue it would be worth checking how much LEGAL immigrants actualy contribute economicaly to a nation. Youll find most are basicaly seeking immigration due to work related circumstance and are probably better off than most. The Office of National Statistics here in the UK did a review of this when immigration was very much an issue in the media a few years back pointing out LEGAL immigrants paid more in taxes than actual UK citizens lol. And then coupled with how much they spend in there local areas, the further taxes on top of that, immigration can be off great benefit to any nation especialy when making up for a lack in a specific work related trade.

Immigration isnt realy that black and white a issue.

[edit on 6-5-2010 by Johnze]

reply to post by Johnze


Alright, I am going to probably piss people off but here goes.

The United States of America is an IDEA, it is not a country.

Freedom, Liberty, non persecution of your thoughts or your beliefs.

To subjugate this society, with an infusion of such a HUGE number of people that do NOT realize that people are divine or FREE if you do not believe in divinity, is a problem.

Knowledge is power, is divinity!

reply to post by endisnighe


I agree with you completely mate, America at its inception was one of the greatest acheivements of mankind with regards to our evolution in society. As a philisophy of governing it was unequaled. But sadly the realisation of such potential, in the material, has led to such extremities within rulership it has made any ideals of being truly free a thing of the past.

Sad i love the idea of America, but i would never choose to live there now.

reply to post by endisnighe


Another excellent post that I shall not let die as it deserves much debate and discussion as humanly possible.

It the United States of America a country? Well dear sir, I believe you just answered that right above my post to you. It is not a country but an idea. An ideal set forth by Men who believed in Freedom and Liberty above all else.

As such, the Imperialist nature of the Federal Government has strongly asserted its control over the Nation States that I believe we were supposed to be.

Given readings of our Founding Documents one could see that the setup was simple. Various States bound together via a Constitution that would be guaranteed commerce without limitations, basic protections in regards to the people and overall defense when and if the time came to be.

Today we have nothing of the sorts. We are no longer citizens of our respective states, but rather subjects of the corrupted Federal Government.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


reply to post by Johnze


Both of you brought this thing or idea of this thread to a HEAD or an ENDEAVOR.

America, the United States of, was created as an idea. A theory of evolution, of course the power elite could not or would not allow the idea to sustain itself.

Imagine this, you had and entire COUNTRY that believed in free will?

An entire country that believed in self fulfilling prophecy?

Or, an entire country that said, I as an individual am as powerful as any entity put forth by the power elite.

Of course we had to be destroyed. Freedom CANNOT be allowed. Liberty CANNOT be allowed.

Cry FREEDOM!


edit to change a to an

[edit on 5/6/2010 by endisnighe]

reply to post by endisnighe


Not only the elites but the general public as well. Many today could not self-govern if their lives depended upon it. While I believe this has been designed by 'elites', it is sadly true.

The amount of principle, courage, faith, intelligence, common sense and hard work it takes to hold onto your liberty is lacking in a large portion of this nation, along with the world.

Take this for example. As a leader, one must learn to delegate. Delegation is a fine art that requires knowledge of peoples' abilities they wish to delegate to. A good leader understand that they never delegate responsibility, only authority. The responsibility still lies with the one delegating, not the receiver of such delegation.

Now, insert us, the People as seen via the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution as the leader. As we are as much leaders as the so called 'leaders' we send in our names, our families and communities.

For far too long we have delegated not only authority to those in Washington to ensure that the studious and proper administration of the Central Government is being handled, but we have willingly and ignorantly given the responsibility to these Men.

Therein lies the problem as no longer are we a country of the People, but have gleefully created an elite class within, the Political Class. We hand them everything as we became too tired with the prospects of governing ourselves and securing our liberties.

From that point forward, the idea, the Nation ceased to exist as we abdicated our share to the few once again...as history repeats itself like a broken record.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


Alright, yesterday I was at Walgreen's and the person in front of me could not even use the bank panel. They were told how to explicitly by the cashier. If the cashier was dishonest, she could have taken ALL the funds from the customer.

What do we do in that situation?

Not everyone is going to be truthful or honest. I have a feeling the card she had was a Welfare component. I actually felt sorry for her. I actually thought my idea of self governance and responsibility was wrong, for a SPLIT second.

What kept that person at the register from taking advantage, me? No, it was charity, self righteous indignation. We as a society would take care of people like that, but we are reinforced daily that we would not.

I do not know anymore.

I am feeling detriments to my righteousness.

I feel I may have to make adjustments in my own morality. Where I felt that I have been always comfortable in my own perceptions.

Anyway, thank God that I do NOT have to make these type of decisions.

If I ever do, what situational hazard do I make?

reply to post by ownbestenemy

Not only the elites but the general public as well. Many today could not self-govern if their lives depended upon it. While I believe this has been designed by 'elites', it is sadly true.

As much as I loathe to grant this mysterious acronym known as TBTB any power at all, I believe your statement is tragically correct. The effort is so pervasive and so insidious, that the lexicon has taken to defining words in nonsensical ways. Consider the usage of the word myth to mean falsehood or lie. This word is used so often to mean this, that several threads each week in this site rely upon that word to mean falsehood. However, myths are still myths, and they have survived since time immemorial because of the universal truths they speak, and even more importantly is the hero myth, which seeks to inspire greatness in us all, and yet, today people view such inspiration as a falsehood, or lie.

Consider how the word selfishness has been defined, every version comes down to the same assessment, which would be a chief concern for ones own interest, especially with disregard for others. How nonsensical is that? How is disregard for others in any persons best interest, unless they are misanthropic or a hermit, and such behavior is hardly considered to be looking after ones own interest. But what word exists that is simply defined as a chief concern for ones own interest? No qualifications, just that, a chief concern for ones own interest. There is, of course, no word that I know of in the any lexicon that offers such a definition.

Strange coincidence? I think not. I think there has been a concerted effort by those mysterious acronymic "elites", to vilify and demonize the idea of having a chief concern for ones own interest, while at the same time putting out the meme that government is tasked to look out for everybody's interest. It is more than annoying, and a Sisyphusian effort to attempt to correct this problem. Even so, I keep trying. Thanks for giving me that opportunity with your post.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


"Abuse of words has been the great instrument of sophistry and chicanery, of party, faction, and division of society." - John Adams

What else could I say in response to your post...

I am along with you, that I shy away from the dubious, yet omnipotent PTB label that is throw around here on this site. It is the boogie man of lore and myth, as no one here could ever truly state who or what are TPTB....

To me, the elite is ever changing. It is those that crave power over everything else. The power to play God. To stifle the masses from ever thinking they could make it through their time here on Earth without their wisdom and benevolence.

As humans, we have been given every tool we need to make it through our short time here on this Planet. Our hands, the ability to walk upright, our ability to reason and philosophize, to critically think and to communicate. Why then, do we need a strong Central Government that thinks they can do all that we can already do?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


JPZ, thanks for the visitation.

I have had ideas for systems, but I must admit, I know NOTHING. Just as the systems that exist.

reply to post by ownbestenemy

As humans, we have been given every tool we need to make it through our short time here on this Planet. Our hands, the ability to walk upright, our ability to reason and philosophize, to critically think and to communicate. Why then, do we need a strong Central Government that thinks they can do all that we can already do?

We don't and we never did. There are indeed many today who have embraced the philosophy of victimology, but it is a philosophy of death and uselessness, and while anyone of us may find ourselves the victim of some crime, it is how we respond to that crime that makes all the difference.

Consider the words of Floyd Patterson:

"They said I was the fighter who got knocked down the most, but I also got up the most."

No victim there.

reply to post by endisnighe


I couldn't be more grateful to you for the enormous efforts you have made in this site. Thank you for creating places for me to visit.

First off "Illegal Immigration" is a deliberate misnomer. It's illegal but it's not Immigration, it's invasion. The word "Immigration" attached here is intended to suggest to the mind that the "Illegal" is staying. Psychologically it means that they are already immigrated, they just didn't legally do it.

An "Illegal Immigrate" or "Invader" is like a burglar that has entered your home through the back window. The "Latin" approach is to then go and open the front door and invite everyone else in, then go to you and say your home is now theirs too. The rational of the latin Invader is something like their great, great, great, great, grandfather once thought of passing gas in the direction of what would become the uSA so they must be entitled. In Mexico alone their are over 100 Million people and most of them are ready willing and able to invade your home if allowed to. Invasion is not about "rights" or "needs", it's about crime and risk.

reply to post by ReelView

First off "Illegal Immigration" is a deliberate misnomer.

You know, I was sort of worried I was going off topic with my mini rant on semantics and words, but you have nicely tied it all together for this threads purpose. Job well done! Bravo!!

First off, this thread has nothing to do with ILLEGAL or LEGAL aliens.

THIS thread has to do with the actual reality of country's borders,

Anyway, I appreciate your views.

No problem, some companies during the rally, there values did not exist or some values sky rocketed. Hmmmmm, no problem, just walk away, nothing to see here.

The dow jones is real. I mean really, there is NO manipulative theories!

Sorry it took so long for me to reply again, as I really am liking this thread so far.

I am kind of glad I took so long to get back, as there are some very very good posts in here as I have starred most of them.

I would like to throw in my piece, if you don't mind.

The United States Inc., to me is an abomination and a usurpation of our rights as individuals and as a nation of peoples.

I would love for nothing more than to see the Corporation dissolved and all of it's employees laid off. They are mostly bums anyways, I mean how long do things take when you are waiting in line at government offices?? Forever, they just sit around and screw off usually... but I digress...

We need to fire them all, dissolve the Corporation in itself, and repeal absurd legal monstrosities like the U.S. Code. My political view there.

Once that is done, I think that the umbrella of corruption will be lifted, at least a little bit, off our heads and we can begin to say "the stormy weather is passing."

About the United States of America as an Idea? This is what I am 100% behind. I love the ideals that this nation of peoples has stood for, freedom and liberty and protecting everyone's liberties. These are ideals I would fight and struggle for, as my forefathers have fought and struggled for themselves.

I am a mix of Native American and some European blood, and this gives me 2 separate claims. 1) My forefathers were here for centuries. 2) My other forefathers fought in the Revolutionary War against the King. (Sons of Liberty)

I know I can never fill the shoes of my ancestors, But I try. I try to stand up for their ideals of freedom and liberty, although some times it may appear counter-intuitive.

I know that I fall short of their glory; but their spirits tell me, in my heart, that I must fight like they fought. This time my weapons are words and ideas, rather than arrows or bullets.

I want nothing more than what you want OP; to reclaim our lost glory and re-establish the Constitution and Bill of Rights as the ultimate and final law of this land. To control our government and protect citizens from abuses by that government. This is what the entire Constitution is REALLY about; as I know You Posters here are all too aware.

I believe that anyone willing to learn our customs and ways, and enter our nation Legally, is what we Americans seek for our newfound brethren. I like you OP, and annoyed by the ILLEGAL issue, as it is very rude of them to spit on our customs and ways of life, and then turn around and condemn them. They are hypocrites and many of us share disdain for their disregard for our history and values.

Legal Immigration makes this land a better place. But Illegal invasion saps us and harms our well being.

As a compromise, I have always thought we should increase our limits of Legal Immigration by about double; as to stave off some of the problems coming from the Illegal invasion.

But as I said, I expect all Americans to know the Constitution and the Bill of Rights; I expect them to stand up for them and defend them; as these documents DEFEND US the PEOPLE! It is an imperative and a necessity.

I apologize that my comments do not reach the standard of quality shown by other members in this thread, as there are some extremely good posts here and mine certainly fail in comparison to their high grade of quality.

I simply am too flawed an individual to even compare to some of you guys/gals; but I accept that and I learn so much from many of you. I am a student here, for all intents and purposes.

At the very least, consider my rambling diatribe as merely a subtle bump to this thread, in hopes it does not die off so early.

I would be very happy to see 10 pages form here, with the same quality the first 2 pages exhibit. There are some very intelligent people here and I must say, I am standing on the shoulders of Giants.

I am humbled in the presence of such Giants.

Recap
-Dissolve US Inc.
-Repeal U.S.Code
-Constitution and Bill of Rights are paramount to our progress as a peoples and a society.
-I am willing to stand up, speak out, and fight for these ideals.

I personally do not believe in Corporations anyways.
But I believe in Life, Liberty, and Justice for All. And that Is what America is really about.

Let's reclaim our lost Nation. One mind at a time!

reply to post by muzzleflash


You do yourself a disservice good sir.

Words are just an instrument. Be they used as a sword or a plowshare, they in no way are ever wrong, if they come from the heart. As the sword in defense or the plowshare in giving.

It seems that some are awakening and to those I say, knowledge is power. Knowledge has to be given freely with no encumbrances.

In the beginning of the thread I wanted to address the issue of borders of a country. These could include the borders placed upon us the citizenry. The ones that seem to be getting closer and more oppressive whereby the borders of our country seem to be ever expanding.

As I addressed in another thread, what is the purpose of the US military? If not to protect the US? One would argue than that it's purpose is to enforce the will of the government, that wields it.

With a government, that the citizenry believes by the ration of 4 to 1, that it is out of control. It does not abide by our wishes, it does not abide by it's very own laws. It attempts to enforce it's will upon the world.

That is not an American ideal.

You cannot bring a horse to water as you cannot force people to be free.

It is an abomination.

United States of America has borders, they are DEFINED in the US Constitution! They are not physical, they are metaphysical.

They have been ripped apart and thrown to the furthest reaches of the world and have become abhorrent to those who truly cherish the borders of this once great nation of ideals and ideas.

Enforce our borders, the physical and the metaphysical. For they are truth, justice and the American DREAM.