Illinois Senator Wants to Imprison Gun Owners

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by MBF

 

Same here. Until people stop blaming the tool and start blaming the user it won't change though.

Agreed. Why dont we make computer ownership laws becasue there are criminal who use their computers to steal money or identitys or meet kids or any number of other online crimes.

Maybe make car owning illegal because drunk drivers kill people. Jeesh noone will ever get the irony in making guns illegal when criminals dont care one way or another. Most criminals who own guns dont own them the legal way. Minors with guns who are in gangs didnt go to the local gunshop and buy it. It is most likely a stolen gun thats been passed around the streets many times.

Seems like this argument will never go away. I read somewhere and i forget where, that a armed society is a polite society. Makes sense to me but what do i know.

First, they took away my rights, and claim it was terrorists they were after

I surrendered those freedoms quietly, because I am no terrorist.


Then they took away my privacy, and claim it was illegal immigrants they were after

I surrendered those liberties silently, because I am no illegal immigrant.


Next they took away my gun, and claim it was criminals they were after

I........?

What else to come?

Originally posted by boaby_phet
guns are just bad, but im not going to preach to americans about this as none of you seem to understand the argument one bit.

Someone threatens to ban guns, and you all threaten to shoot them!

the irony kills me!

They should also ban soccer matches and beer halls in Britain. That would greatly reduce the stomping deaths during soccer riots and the ever popular maiming/disfigurement with broken beer mugs, often requiring multiple reconstructive surgeries.

Brits with guns?
I shudder to think......

I live in Illinois and lost my 2nd Amendment right unknowingly when I was 16. I brought fireworks to school and sold them to a fellow student. He got caught lighting them in the hallway a few weeks later. He told the authorities that I sold them to him on school grounds and I got arrested for arson. I was not convicted but the arrest still shows up when I applied for my FOID card and I was declined (I'm 40 now). I gotta go back to the county and get a letter from the clerks office to show I wasn't convicted and send that back to the IL State Police to get my rights back. By the way, they kept my $10 FOID card application fee after I was declined. Working on getting it. It's not easy for me to move since I own a local business and hard to relocate. Someday.

Also after researching they are declining vets for no reason and making it just as hard for them as they are doing to me.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by 2ndFUTURE]

Well i'm convinced.

More gun's = safer society...

Or not.

The United States leads the world's richest nations in gun deaths -- murders, suicides, and accidental deaths due to guns - according to a study published April 17, 1998 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the International Journal of Epidemiology.

Link

And yes i know you can show stats to prove otherwise...2nd amendment rights blah blah blah.....BUT.

Your constitution was writen over two hunderd years ago,I don't think your "founding fathers" could have forseen gang bangers driving around the neighbourhood showering houses with automatic rifle fire.

Perhaps it's time to institute laws that make it easier for the police to distinguish between "law abiding citiziens" and the more nefarious elements of society.
Isn't that what the whole "regersted firearms" thing is about?

PS. Don't get me wrong i'm not one of these "guns are evil" types.I love guns.As a former infantry man i have fired more rifles and "guns" (M-60) than most people will in there lives and i have owned several assault rifles in my time...BUT i do belive that the only place for such weopons is in the hands of a well trained solider.

reply to post by mack37


Once again, it needs to be pointed out that most of that violent crime actually happens in the areas where guns are, in fact, banned or highly restricted. As long as guns exist, the bad guys will have them. So tell me again, why shouldn't the good guys have them, too?

reply to post by mack37

Perhaps it's time to institute laws that make it easier for the police to distinguish between "law abiding citiziens" and the more nefarious elements of society.
Isn't that what the whole "regersted firearms" thing is about?

Here in Illinois we already have more than enough of their inane laws concerning guns. All those laws have succeeded in doing is to raise the amount of gun related crimes. The more nefarious elements of our society do not abide by those laws, leaving those of us that do nothing more than sitting ducks.


No amount of laws are going to stop the gangbangers from doing what they do, they don't care about the laws, and will not follow them, ever. All those laws do is prevent us from protecting ourselves from the criminlas.

Your constitution was writen over two hunderd years ago,I don't think your "founding fathers" could have forseen gang bangers driving around the neighbourhood showering houses with automatic rifle fire.

I'm sure that they didn't imagine that any such thing would ever happen. However the constitution is the law of our land, no matter how long ago it was written. And as long as this holds true the government has absolutely no right to abridge our right to bear arms, except under the provisions set forth in the constitution.

Now keeping in mind i'm not American and have never traveled to the US.

A 10-year-old girl and her 44-year-old mother were shot while sleeping in their beds early this morning in Kenosha, Wis.

Link

Please explain how owning gun's would have helped these two?

Better still post links to similar news stories showing how legitimate gun owners have defended their homes or property.

Originally posted by mattifikation
reply to post by mack37

 

Once again, it needs to be pointed out that most of that violent crime actually happens in the areas where guns are, in fact, banned or highly restricted. As long as guns exist, the bad guys will have them. So tell me again, why shouldn't the good guys have them, too?

Where do the "bad guys" get the gun's from? presumably they are stolen from legitimate gun owners then sold onto the black market.Reducing the overall number of weopons in society will naturaly reduce the supply onto the black market therefore raising the cost of said weapons to a point beyond the budget of your average thug or gangster thus reducing gun crime over time.

The above approach would require uniform national gun laws and i know that's not going to happen in the US any time soon.

I'm sure that they didn't imagine that any such thing would ever happen. However the constitution is the law of our land, no matter how long ago it was written. And as long as this holds true the government has absolutely no right to abridge our right to bear arms, except under the provisions set forth in the constitution.

My understanding is that the constitution was writen as a "living document" with inbuilt mechanism's to facilitate changes.Holding out a two hundred year old document to justify owning a dozen desert eagle's is just a cop out IMHO.

PS.I'm not trying to offend anyone here or change your minds.Just enjoying a good debate.

reply to post by mack37


You have purposely sited a case where owning a gun would not have helped the victims being that they were sleeping inside their home when someone shot at their building from the outside. It is very rare when owning a gun will help when you are the victim of something like a drive by shooting.

Owning a gun can however be of great help if you are the victim of a home invasion, rape, attempted robbery at an ATM, etc.

This man was able to prevent himself from being robbed and most likely killed because he had a gun and was not prevented from carrying it with him.....

A man turned the tables on his would-be robber while he was pulling out cash at an ATM, police said.

Winter Garden Police said the victim was at the Wachovia ATM at 801 S. Dillard St. early Friday morning when he was approached by a man with a gun.

The victim, who has a concealed weapons permit, pulled out a gun of his own and opened fire at the robber, identified as Tommie R. Ward, while he was being shot at himself, according to police.

Ward, 18, was shot three times and fled the scene with two other people, police said.

Police said officers caught up with the Ward’s vehicle about a mile away where he crashed the car.

Ward was taken into custody and transported to Orlando Regional Medical Center, police said. He is in stable condition.

Another man who was in the car, Patrick White, 19, was also arrested. One other person escaped into some nearby woods.
Police said at this time the man who shot the robbery suspect faces no charges.

This man was able to prevent his daughter from being further mauled and possibly killed by their own family dog because he had a gun......

An Eastside man shot his family’s dog to stop it from attacking his 2-year-old daughter on the Eastside last night.

Christopher Schafer, 26, 1400 block of North Tuxedo St., fired one shot into the dog’s shoulder after it had clenched Krista Schaefer by the neck, knocked her to the ground and bit her on the shoulder, underarm and nose, according to an Indianapolis Metropolitan police report.

The child was not seriously injured and didn’t need to be hospitalized.

Schafer told police he and Krista’s older sister succeeded momentarily in getting the dog away from Krista but when it started after her again he shot it with a .40 caliber semi-automatic handgun

The 7-year-old shepherd-chow mix ran to its doghouse in the backyard after being shot.

Indianapolis Animal Care and Control officers found it hiding behind the doghouse and took it to a veterinarian to be checked out.

Both of these stories, as well as several others can be found here.....

www.thearmedcitizen.com...


This woman was able to save herself from God knows what by preventing an attempted home invasion by three men, because she had a gun.

www.wjla.com...


This man was able to defend his family from heavily armed robbers because he had a gun.

www.citizentribune.com...


This man was able to defend himself and his girlfriend after an intruder shot his dog three times and kicked in his back door.

starbeacon.com...


There are plenty of cases where people are able to save themselves and their loved ones only because of their right to bear arms. I can provide more links if need be, hopefully these will suffice.


Yes some of the guns that end up in the hands of the "bad guys" are obtained by stealing them from legitimate gun owners. However they are also obtained by purchasing them at a gun show, purchasing non stolen guns from the black market, etc. And as another poster has already pointed out if they can't get their hands on a gun, they'll simply use a zip gun.

My understanding is that the constitution was writen as a "living document" with inbuilt mechanism's to facilitate changes.Holding out a two hundred year old document to justify owning a dozen desert eagle's is just a cop out IMHO.

Thankfully those types of changes haven't been made yet, and hopefully we will never allow them to be changed.

Personally I have no need for a dozen desert eagle's, nor do I foresee the need for that type of gunpower for myself. However I see the need to own a firearm to protect myself, my family (yes I would shoot someone that was trying to kill one of my dogs too), and my home. If a law abiding citizen wishes to own a dozen desert eagles and is commiting no crimes with them, that is their right.

Why are half the titles of threads here so misleading? Where does it say the Senator wants to imprison gun owners. The article is does not say anthing like that. Sensationalising can be done with honesty.

Originally posted by boaby_phet
guns are just bad, but im not going to preach to americans about this as none of you seem to understand the argument one bit.

Someone threatens to ban guns, and you all threaten to shoot them!

the irony kills me!

People that oppose gun ownership would probably defend themselves from an angry bear by throwing the A.C.L.U. hand book at it. If Karma is just,may you learn what self protection really means.

Those people could have been saved if the person shooting at their house would have been put and jail years before. People don't go to bed good guys and wake up shooting. The path to violent crime is a gradual one, and when they find the person who did this I guarantee they'll discover he had a criminal record.

Don't punish good people by taking their guns away in response to the actions of bad people. Punish bad people for being bad. Do away with prisons that get basic cable, gym time, Internet access, work release, and rec yards. Stop letting people out after a few months of "good behavior" and start giving people real sentences.

What you're missing is the fact that it's already illegal to shoot people. As for guns not being available on the Black Market, that's fantasy wishing. Even if the number of black market guns went down, it wouldn't be until decades from now. At that point, bad guys will just use knives to kill unarmed good people, and you'll end up like the U.K.

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.

And here's a short list of the type of links you asked for. Just do a Google search, there are thousands and thousands of these stories each year. You'd have to turn off the mainstream media to see these headlines, though. ;-)

Armed Homeowners Scare Away, Capture Burglar

Armed South Dakota Homeowner Fends off Burglar

Clothing Store Owner Shoots Violent Robber in Self Defense

Elderly Michigan Man Stop 3 Home Invaders with His Shotgun

Antique Store Robber Shot by Armed Store Manager

Knife-Wielding Robber Shot by Armed Robbery Victim

Thonotosassa, FL Homeowner Shoots Violent Burglar in Self Defense

Concealed Carry Permit Holder Stops Drunken and Violent Attackers