3 dead during Greek riots

reply to post by Alien Mind


No I don't know how it is is when a country collapse, but I know how it is for a citizens like the US to be forced to pay for the mistakes of financial institutions and bailouts forced by our own government to do so due to the corruption within our American government, but history tells that getting a nation into more debt at the expenses of their citizens doesn't help either, and the people of the nations have the right to voice their disagreements and anger.

Now, you talk like you know so much so tell me, how getting a nation into more debt is good for the citizens and sovereignty of the nation in trouble.



[edit on 5-5-2010 by marg6043]

Here is another Utube video:

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Alien Mind

 

No I don't know how it is is when a country collapse, but I know how it is for a citizens like the US to be forced to pay for the mistakes of financial institutions and bailouts forced by our own government to do so due to the corruption within our American government, but history tells that getting a nation into more debt at the expenses of their citizens doesn't help either, and the people of the nations have the right to voice their disagreements and anger.

Now, you talk like you know so much so tell me, how getting a nation into more debt is good for the citizens and sovereignty of the nation in trouble.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by marg6043]

Point it out to me where i said that getting into more debt is good.

www.reuters.com...

Greek civil servants will strike again next week to protest against austerity measures, the public sector union ADEDY said on Wednesday. "We will continue our struggle. We will meet tomorrow morning to announce a strike for early next week,"

reply to post by Alien Mind


Then what is your problem with my post . . . because that is what I got from yours while trying to show that I don't know anything about a nations collapse. . .

So let me refrain what is your solution for nations that their citizens rather let the nations collapse than to be owned by foreign interest through debt

[edit on 5-5-2010 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Alien Mind


You act as if the Greek government was looking forward to the economy going to #.

Sorry mate! I don't know what you were getting that from? certainly not from my post!

I said that I understood the frustration of the people, but the problem of Greece's economy has been cooking since before they joined the €uro agreement.

They should have started to clean up their act years ago, but that was politically impossible in greece due to the political environment, the low tax moral and the corruption which made their system broken.

No one wanted the gravy train to stop and the party to be over! - including most politicians - because that would had been political suicide in Greece.

So how the heck can you say that I said that the greek government was looking forward to the economy going to hell?

Of course not! no one want their economy to go to hell - but greece went over the top with public spending while not getting enough back in form of tax revenue from the people.

The people of Greece are world champions in knowing how to avoid paying taxes - it's their national sport!

And to add to that, now they're also the victims of totally greedy financial institutions & Banks and their insane betting & unmorally behaviour as well.

The Greeks can't cover all generous pensions and public spendings from tourism revenue alone you know.

I feel sad for the younger generation in Greece though! - but the more knowledgable older generations of the population and the politicians, certainly suspected that these times was coming sooner or later!

[edit on 5-5-2010 by Chevalerous]

You people are so naive into thinking that people are innocent when it comes to the problems their country is facing. Just keep on blaming the boogieman.

reply to post by Alien Mind


www.abovetopsecret.com...
your one of those Quasi-Intellectual’ Sheeple people arent you...

www.dailymail.co.uk...
link to several vivid pictures from todays riots... discretion is advised.
also a goes into great detail about the greek situation and says that the EU has warned the UK that it will be worse than greece...

[edit on 5-5-2010 by TheCoffinman]

reply to post by Alien Mind


While I agree that we the citizens are the ones that vote for the rats in our governments to then have big interest making them works against us, it is the governments of nations the ones that have the power to enact laws and policies regardless of we the people want or not.

Then when the governments no longer work for the people but against the people the people turn around and fight back the only way they canthat is what the citizens of Greece are doing now.

So actually they are doing something against the corruption that their elected government has done and its results.

Sometimes this historical events shows that governments can never be trusted.

So who are they protecting, the answer is simple; the bond holders. Roughly, 80% of this debt is foreign owned and a large portion of this is held by German and French Citizens. Bottom line this rescue package is not for Greece, but it's a rescue for Greek bond holders worldwide. If Greece were to default tomorrow, it would not disappear, but its debt holders would be seriously hurt. Thus behind all this noise one must understand that the main reason for the bailout is to protect the bondholders; the exact same story unfolded in the US, the only difference being that it was a bailout of the banking industry. As the Germans and French hold a very large percentage of these bonds, it is actually a bailout of Germany and France and not really Greece. They should let Greece's default but they will not.
Even though Argentina defaulted on its debt, it is still around. Yes it did pay the price initially by being shut out of the global capital markets for years, but it did not vanish and only its foreign debt holders lost.
An IMF study by Eduardo Borensztein and Ugo Panizza counts as many as 257 sovereign defaults between 1824 and 2004. Between 1981 and 1990 alone, there were 74 defaults . In fact, the evidence suggests that the penalties for default are often less severe than those meted out to Argentina. Its experience of being shunned by international capital markets is not typical, for example. At least in recent years defaulters have been able to re-enter markets once debt restructuring is complete. Argentina's woes stem partly from the fact that it is only now, more than eight years since it defaulted, nearing a final deal with its creditors.

www.marketoracle.co.uk...

Greece needs to default and let the bond holders suck eggs! A couple years and they'll be back in the game. To Be or Not to Be: a Slave

Originally posted by marg6043
The problem with Greece is that they don't want their country to be owned by the European banksters.

Their fight is not because monetary help is not coming soon enough but because the monetary help comes with attachments for the majority of the work force in their nation the government.

Their life savings, their retirement accounts their limit of retirement, cuts in salaries, higher taxes and so on.

That is what the people will have to endure if taking the monetary help.

I say as a citizens let the nation collapse and rebuild anew no more debt for generations to come.

And history tells the story more debt doesn't fix anything

[edit on 5-5-2010 by marg6043]

I think they actually just don't want their benefits cut...which was part of the deal. The same thing would happen if we suddenly cut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security...which we will have to do at some point in time. Government benefits are bankrupting countries, and it hard to get people off the government tit.

reply to post by yellowcard


Thats more like it.. I think that Marg might be giving the Greeks too much credit with this..

They don't care that they are borrowing money from anyone.. They don't even know where its coming from in the most part..

They're only pissed off because their overly Socialist system is being stripped back to a capitalist system and they are losing their benefits that they think they are entitled to as opposed to having worked for..

I honestly don't see any major dissimilarity with the U.S. Sure, the Greeks avoided taxes and their government spent wildly on social programs and hid debt which eventually bankrupted the economy. Here in the U.S. we have a government that bends over to the large corporations at every turn, borrows wildly from foreign governments to support a never ending list of massively expensive wars and looks the other way while large banks fleece the citizenry. At least for awhile the regualr people of Greece were getting something. In this country the only people who made out were the corporations, banks and elite. The rest of us got screwed and stuck with the bill.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


Exactly, when US crashed last year the first thing that the government did was to preserve the wealth of the Markets and financial institutions.

Not the American people. . .

We were used to preserve that wealth and now for generations to come our children children will be used to keep that wealth and avoid an American collapse, after all the whole world owns our debt.

reply to post by Dermo


Their benefits are not far from the benefits we enjoy in the US and we call our nation a Capitalistic system and a "Democracy" but when the government seem fit it uses socialism to protect those at the top. . .

reply to post by marg6043


Ah yes..

But tell me what would have happened if your markets were allowed fail?

Would you still be alive now?

Possibly not..

***Edit to add**

Originally posted by marg6043
Their benefits are not far from the benefits we enjoy in the US and we call our nation a Capitalistic system and a "Democracy" but when the government seem fit it uses socialism to protect those at the top. . .

Im pretty well up on benefits you guys enjoy in the states.. And believe me, even California hasn't a pick on Greece or Spain.. Not even Ireland.. And Ireland isn't a Socialist country in any sense of the word..

I really wish you would take some of what Im saying into your head.. I live around Europe, I am big into Economics and EU politics.. I have an idea what I am talking about here and I am not trying to be insulting here when I say that much of what you are saying in your arguments about the Greeks is completely unfounded..


[edit on 5/5/10 by Dermo]

reply to post by yellowcard


Governments are very well equipped to provide for their citizens, is when government become corrupted and greedy that they forget about their own citizens and start taking care of those on he top.

Is happening in the US for decades, we just got something call the mighty dollar and a treasury department that have not problem printing lots of it.

reply to post by Dermo


Exactly we will still be here, for the common American like me life most go on.

But for those that hold the wealth on the top, they are the ones that are fighting to keep that wealth.

At the expenses of the rest of us.

reply to post by marg6043


Well said Marg, those on here defending the Elite will sing a different tune when 'austerity' AKA slavery hits their door. Always easy to stand back and point fingers.

The Greek people need to work this out on their own. They should default on their debt to the Elite and go from there. Just like a personal bankruptcy you or I would go through here in the states. Their leadership is simply handcuffing themselves to an unpayable Debt and the people are justifiably outraged.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by yellowcard

 

Governments are very well equipped to provide for their citizens, is when government become corrupted and greedy that they forget about their own citizens and start taking care of those on he top.

Is happening in the US for decades, we just got something call the mighty dollar and a treasury department that have not problem printing lots of it.

No they aren't, even if the U.S. government cut all of it's programs aside from Medicare and Medicaid it would STILL be in debt, by ~2050 Medicare will take up 100% of the U.S. budget, everything else will be debt. The U.S. does have a license to spend and print though, because the dollar is the world reserve currency....that you are right about...but governments can't escape economics.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by yellowcard]