U.S. States Consider Starting Their Own Banks

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by hawkiye
State run/owned banks are not the answer. As long as government has control of the money whether state or federal it is the same thing we have now greed and corruption will prevail. The answer is a free market in currency. It is nobodies business what anyone uses for currency but those who are participating in the transaction period!

No free market so that we do not end up with this same exact mess in say, 50 years. No private control over our coin period anymore is the way forward.

Govt will takeover the printing and issuance of currency so no private azzhats can take it over again.

This is the much needed nationalization of our coin.

edit on 27-3-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

You have no clue what your talking about if you think free markets caused the mess we are in today. Giving the state a monopoly on the money is no different then giving the feds a monopoly on the moneyl THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE TODAY. All fiat money systems have failed in history and lasted only about forty years. Government intervention has only served to enforce thier monopoly and regulate any free market out of existence which is why we haven;t had a free market in over 50 years. AND THAT IS WHY WE ARE IN THIS MESS TODAY! If you transfer this nonsense to the states you will have the same mess in a few years as we have today.

Please educate yourselves Central control of the money supply is a recipe for disaster and always has been. it has failed every time in history and allowed banksters and politicians to rob the wealth of the people and nations. It is truly sad to see the ignorance on this subject and people wanting to be free who will in thier ignorance willingly put themselves right back into the same financial slavery and bondage they wish to be free from.

Sound money and personal responsibility are the only things needed. Why do you persist in thinking others should control your money and issue it? Why would you trust others not to inflate that money and steal your wealth when it has happened every single time in history, and is happening right before your eyes as we speak? Why do you think a state would do anything different then the fed if given control over the money? If that is what one wish to do then they deserve to be robbed as we all are today and State owned/run banks will do the same thing as the feds have done.

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

That is apart of the long range plan, implement in one state then after 2014 timeframe alot of other states to start their own as well . . .

Can you post a link for this plan?

None is online but have faith in this as if it was online it would be easy to circumvent.

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by hawkiye
State run/owned banks are not the answer. As long as government has control of the money whether state or federal it is the same thing we have now greed and corruption will prevail. The answer is a free market in currency. It is nobodies business what anyone uses for currency but those who are participating in the transaction period!

No free market so that we do not end up with this same exact mess in say, 50 years. No private control over our coin period anymore is the way forward.

Govt will takeover the printing and issuance of currency so no private azzhats can take it over again.

This is the much needed nationalization of our coin.

edit on 27-3-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

You have no clue what your talking about if you think free markets caused the mess we are in today. Giving the state a monopoly on the money is no different then giving the feds a monopoly on the moneyl THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE TODAY. All fiat money systems have failed in history and lasted only about forty years. Government intervention has only served to enforce thier monopoly and regulate any free market out of existence which is why we haven;t had a free market in over 50 years. AND THAT IS WHY WE ARE IN THIS MESS TODAY! If you transfer this nonsense to the states you will have the same mess in a few years as we have today.

Please educate yourselves Central control of the money supply is a recipe for disaster and always has been. it has failed every time in history and allowed banksters and politicians to rob the wealth of the people and nations. It is truly sad to see the ignorance on this subject and people wanting to be free who will in thier ignorance willingly put themselves right back into the same financial slavery and bondage they wish to be free from.

Sound money and personal responsibility are the only things needed. Why do you persist in thinking others should control your money and issue it? Why would you trust others not to inflate that money and steal your wealth when it has happened every single time in history, and is happening right before your eyes as we speak? Why do you think a state would do anything different then the fed if given control over the money? If that is what one wish to do then they deserve to be robbed as we all are today and State owned/run banks will do the same thing as the feds have done.

Foreign control over our central bank now has caused the mess, capitalism is not the answer here, nationalization only.

I am saying and calling for the US Federal Government takes over the central bank as that is the plan.

People like you want to privatize everything just so that it would be that much easier to destroy our system from the inside out.

I don't know about you but I'd rather trust Government to control our money then have some foreigner with an agenda.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
I don't know about you but I'd rather trust Government to control our money then have some foreigner with an agenda.

I agree the government should control our money - as in we the people. Right now our government is not run by the people, but getting control of our money will enable us to take over.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1




First: THERE IS NO MORE CAPITALISM!

Bankers hate socialism as it takes the power away from them and transfers it to the people. They love capitalism because they can use it to exploit every single weakness we have for their own financial gain.

I am sure you are wrong due to extensive research. That is why I said it was a typical banker deception. It is part of the divide and conquer one of the strategies the Bankers use.

Capitalism is the social system based on individual rights. Collectivism, the opposite of Capitalism, is all about the rights of the GROUP having superiority over that of the individual. The bankers through their money strings make sure THEY control the activist groups. That is one reason they love socialism.

I ran head on into this a couple of years ago when trying to fight the "Food Safety" Modernization Act. All the activists groups were suborned by their funding into supporting that Ag Cartel monstrosity. I did the research and that is when my eyes were opened to the machiavellian games of the Banksters.

The bankers through their money can easily control a group and that is why they are all for collectivism and against individualism (aka Capitalism.) Also socialism/Humanitarianism is a great sheepskin to hide the raping of the poor and the controlling of competition.

If the bankers and corporations with their big buck endowments HATE capitalism then how come socialism/progressivism is so popular especially among college professors??

The bankers have been in control of the US media since 1917. So how come most of the news media leans towards progressivism?

Despite the fact we have been trying to "FIX" the US education system since the 1960's how come it is now so bad it ranks BELOW most of the rest of the world!

"For 10 years, William Schmidt, a statistics professor at Michigan State University, has looked at how U.S. students stack up against students in other countries in math and science. "In fourth-grade, we start out pretty well, near the top of the distribution among countries; by eighth-grade, we're around average, and by 12th-grade, we're at the bottom of the heap, outperforming only two countries, Cyprus and South Africa."
:Source

No teacher, but every textbook, left behind
...More generally, the quality of the twelve most popular science textbooks for middle-schoolers is so low, Hubisz concluded, that none had an acceptable level of accuracy....

An exasperated William Bennetta explained why so many teachers accept inferior textbooks from these publishers, "[T]he major schoolbook companies… have long recognized that the teacher corps in America includes some desperate dumbbells, and the companies have learned to produce books that the dumbbells will like....

This all traces back to John Dewey who was a founding member of the US Fabian Society AND the father of Modern "Education".

...Dewey's philosophy had evolved from Hegelian idealism to socialist materialism, and the purpose of the school was to show how education could be changed to produce little socialists and collectivists instead of little capitalists and individualists. It was expected that these little socialists, when they became voting adults, would dutifully change the American economic system into a socialist one.

In order to do so he analyzed the traditional curriculum that sustained the capitalist, individualistic system and found what he believed was the sustaining linchpin -- that is, the key element that held the entire system together: high literacy. To Dewey, the greatest obstacle to socialism was the private mind that seeks knowledge in order to exercise its own private judgment and intellectual authority. High literacy gave the individual the means to seek knowledge independently. It gave individuals the means to stand on their own two feet and think for themselves. This was detrimental to the "social spirit" needed to bring about a collectivist society. Dewey wrote in Democracy and Education, published in 1916:

When knowledge is regarded as originating and developing within an individual, the ties which bind the mental life of one to that of his fellows are ignored and denied.

www.ordination.org...

And there is the REAL reason our education system SUCKS!

If you follow the Rockefeller, Morgan, Carnegie money strings you find they have funded many of our universities.


There are clear connections between the Rothschilds, Cecil Rhodes, the Rockefellers and the Fabian Society. www.rense.com...

The Fabian Society, stained-glass Fabian Window designed by George Bernard Shaw, now resides in the London School of Economics founded by the Fabians.

Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar and ratified the WTO that has lead to starvation around the world. The Fabian window shows Shaw and Webb smashing the world to rebuild it Then we can remold it nearer to the heart’s desire.”

THAT is what we are seeing happening today and it has NOTHING to do with capitalism.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

Foreign control over our central bank now has caused the mess, capitalism is not the answer here, nationalization only.

I am saying and calling for the US Federal Government takes over the central bank as that is the plan.

Amazing! So you think the same people (feds) who gave control of the money to these foreign interests in the first place will somehow be better the stewards of the money themselves... Sigh!

People like you want to privatize everything just so that it would be that much easier to destroy our system from the inside out.

And how is that possible if I have control over what I chose to use as currency? How is it anyone's business but mine how I chose to conduct trade and transactions as long as I am not harming anyone? This would minimize corruption as people would be free to take thier business elsewhere if someone was corrupt instead of being forced to use an already corrupt monopoly.

I don't know about you but I'd rather trust Government to control our money then have some foreigner with an agenda.

Unbelievable! So the corrupt government that has already sold us out to foreign interests is more trustworthy... Sigh I am speechless...

Also you have no clue what capitalism is. What you call capitalism is actually socialism/fascism however the media has blamed everything on so called capitalism when we haven't had that in over half a century.

Free market capitalism works and it is proven in history. I find it amazing people here who live in a highly regulated society with all its corruptions plagued by government intervention in the name of protecting the people when in fact it is to protect the markets of thier politically connected cronies ( Hello... to big to fail?) think the answer is too look to those same people who namely government who have brought us to the brink of economic disaster and want more government control and regulation... Sigh!

The definition of free market capitalism is free markets where people have a choice and government does not intervene to give anyone an unfair advantage under the guise of protecting the consumer. Markets regulate themselves by the quality and service they provide. If quality and service suck or are corrupt people take thier business elsewhere. The only way you can stay in business is to provide a quality product or service as opposed to the socialist government eliminating your competition through regulation and allowing you to stay in business when you should have failed. Like the Big financial institutions they bailed out. Compare this to trusting government in light of what we have today and the choice is obvious!

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

Foreign control over our central bank now has caused the mess, capitalism is not the answer here, nationalization only.

I am saying and calling for the US Federal Government takes over the central bank as that is the plan.

Amazing! So you think the same people (feds) who gave control of the money to these foreign interests in the first place will somehow be better the stewards of the money themselves... Sigh! - Private interests conencted to both The Rothschilds control our system now, the plan that is being drafted right now ELIMININATES FOREIGN CONTROL OVER OUR COIN AND RETURN IT TO THE US FEDERAL GOVT.

People like you want to privatize everything just so that it would be that much easier to destroy our system from the inside out.

And how is that possible if I have control over what I chose to use as currency? How is it anyone's business but mine how I chose to conduct trade and transactions as long as I am not harming anyone? This would minimize corruption as people would be free to take thier business elsewhere if someone was corrupt instead of being forced to use an already corrupt monopoly. - The monopoly over our currency currently is coming to an end.

I don't know about you but I'd rather trust Government to control our money then have some foreigner with an agenda.

Unbelievable! So the corrupt government that has already sold us out to foreign interests is more trustworthy... Sigh I am speechless...

Also you have no clue what capitalism is. What you call capitalism is actually socialism/fascism however the media has blamed everything on so called capitalism when we haven't had that in over half a century.

Free market capitalism works and it is proven in history. I find it amazing people here who live in a highly regulated society with all its corruptions plagued by government intervention in the name of protecting the people when in fact it is to protect the markets of thier politically connected cronies ( Hello... to big to fail?) think the answer is too look to those same people who namely government who have brought us to the brink of economic disaster and want more government control and regulation... Sigh!

The definition of free market capitalism is free markets where people have a choice and government does not intervene to give anyone an unfair advantage under the guise of protecting the consumer. Markets regulate themselves by the quality and service they provide. If quality and service suck or are corrupt people take thier business elsewhere. The only way you can stay in business is to provide a quality product or service as opposed to the socialist government eliminating your competition through regulation and allowing you to stay in business when you should have failed. Like the Big financial institutions they bailed out. Compare this to trusting government in light of what we have today and the choice is obvious! - Government's lack of intervention allows private interest time and time again to do whatever the hell it wants to unchequed.

edit on 27-3-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

You have some serious issues if you cannot understand that our coin since 1913 has been under the control of private interests :

Proof :
www.youtube.com...

Watch this before you try to come back at me by lying and saying that The US Federal Govt controls our coin as it hasn't since 1913 and will again after about 2013-2014.

STOP MAKING THIS APART OF THE "LEFT-V-RIGHT" PARADIGM AS A CLEARCUT 75 - 80% OF ALL AMERICANS ARE DEMANDING THIS AND WHEN MORE THEN 2*3 OF THE ELECTORATE DEMANDS GOVERNMENT INTERVEINES GUESS WHAT, THE ELECTORATE WILL GET IT!

This is The New America and if you do not like it I really do not give a toss what you or anyone thinks about this as the era of outsiders controlling our nation is over and done.

Evidently you are a GOP'r and fail to realize that capitalism in this case became the problem and a direct threat to this nation's sovereignty, democracy and freedom. Freedom to be free from outside influence in domestic matters.

THIS IS NOT SOCIALISM AND TO SAY IT IS MAKES YOU LIABLE AND RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY FALLOUT. IN YOUR LOGIC WE DO NOTHING AND LOSE THIS NATION ALTOGETHER. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?

I am all for making as much money as possible and will always support capitalism but when it threatens our nation it is a problem.

I'm gonna give you an example :

Say you come to me seeking a loan, and before I give it to you I demand that you must swear your total allegiance to me and if you don't and try to challenge me I collapse the nation.

Watch this to :
www.youtube.com...
This is a Congressional meeting sometime late 08 when the Congress grilled Bernake and he said and I quote :
"My concern about the legislation is that if the GAO is auditing not only the operational aspects of the programs and the details of the programs but making judgments about our policy decisions would effectively be a takeover of policy by the Congress and a repudiation of the Federal Reserve would be highly destructive to the stability of the financial system, the Dollar and our national economic situation." - Is this the capitalism you want?

So it's ok for anyone to threaten the US directly and because it interferes with capitalism it must be ignored? Not a flipping chance. This is the new way, either get with the program or get out of the way. Simple as that.

The only reason why you are irked is because your masters can no longer do whatever the flip they want to our great nation.

Why do you think the nation is not allowed to have a sucess story and almost killed the auto industry?

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


It does not mater WHO controls the money as long as two things happen:

#1. There is NO increase in the money supply - FREEZE IT or tie it to gold and silver.

#2. NO Fractional Reserve Banking. Make banks adhere to the SAME rules of contract that the rest of us have to.

In a real contract there must be "consideration" or value from BOTH sides or the contract is null and void.

most if not ALL banking contracts - mortgages, business loans and ;1/2 of the Federal debt are technically NULL and VOID by the laws of this country.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


You need reading comprehension lessons. i did not say private interests do not control the money. However congress gave them that control in 1913 and are still in collusion with these same money powers. Now you are saying we should look to the same group of crooks known as congress to fix the problem. It's never going to happen, they bailed out these banksters and now you expect them to take away thier meal ticket LOL. You have a complete disconnect from reality if you think Congress will now turn on thier benefactors.

I know the this topic far better then you. You don't even understand how the current monetary system works and you certainly know nothing about me and how I think which accounts for you ridiculous comments about what you think my positions are. You need to read what amounts to the essential hawkiye on ATS if you think you want to debate me on this topic.

Here are some threads that could be considered part of the essential hawkiye:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And here is an overview of how the system really works and will show why your plan will not work and how you do not even understand what the problem really is. The site will walk you through it on video but it seems few have the desire to educate themselves on it.

The top 10 flaws of

neoclassical economics

pastedGraphic

1. Money monopoly = free market

Neoclassical economics calls our current system under a private monetary monopoly a free market. Of course nothing could be further from the truth. The monetary system is an overlay on top of the economic system. Economic systems create value through market activity, but the monetary system on top of them determine who captures that value. Neoclassical economics completely ignores the overlay and the fact that it is controlled by an entrenched private monopoly.

2. Ignores that money comes from nothing but debt

Economics does not address the fact that all money comes from debt. It assumes that base currency (M0, core money) is just a free-flowing medium of exchange that apparently comes from the US Treasury. It does not. It comes from the Federal Reserve backed by debt.


3. Ignores the artificial scarcity condition

Economics ignores how a debt-based monetary system imposes scarcity on countries and populations. There is never enough money to pay back all the debt, so everyone is forced to jump on the hamster wheel, scrambling to find more money to pay back debt. This dynamic is perpetual. It never stops until the system crashes. It need not be this way.


4. Equates net worth with value creation

Economics ignores how the financial class and others serving the upper end of the capital structure capture more money simply because they have entrenched power. They extract value. They do not create it. Economics is correct that participants in the economic system create value, but it misses the fact that the monetary system on top of the economic system determines who captures that value.


5. Assumes free, rational, economic actors by ignoring power differential of debt

The power differential caused by the monetary system is ignored by economics. This is the only reason the system is erroneously called a “free market.” The monetary system is entirely centripetal, sucking all power to the center, the top tiered financiers. People are in servitude in a very controlling market, not a free market.


6. Ignores the instability of having a pure debt-based monetary system

Economists ignore that the economic system is guaranteed to boom, bust, and eventually end because the monetary system on top of it is completely unstable and fundamentally flawed. It depends upon increasing debt. It cannot increase forever, and it can collapse to zero since people have no sovereign money.


7. Ignores the wealth illusion

By not addressing the issue of debt-based money, economics fools people into believing the digits in their bank accounts represent wealth. The fact is they represent a conditional liability, i.e. somebody else’s debt. This becomes obvious during deflation. The illusion is reinforced during inflationary periods.


8. Ignores perpetual exponential growth

Economists inconceivably ignore the most severe flaw of the monetary system that drives our economic system—it requires exponential growth. This guarantees eventual failure, but neoclassical economics conveniently assumes that problem away.


9. Ignores perpetual increasing scale

As a result of perpetual exponential growth, institutions in the system continually get bigger and bigger. We saw this as the economic system made towns, counties, and states irrelevant through the last century, and we are now seeing it as mega banks and corporations are now making national governments irrelevant. People are now living as tiny cogs in a machine of incomprehensible scale. Everything in life has been monetized, so things that don’t generate bank credit get devalued (spirituality, psychology, rest, joy, play, etc).


10. Ignores perpetual increasing velocity

Another problem from exponential growth is perpetually increasing velocity. The system has to chug faster and harder as it continues to grow. This means human life has to chug faster and harder. The most obvious manifestation of this is the endless, hectic commutes every morning to jobs we despise. We feel frustration, sometimes rage, toward our fellow commuters. That is just one small example of how systemic velocity affects the human spirit
csper.org...

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

It does not mater WHO controls the money as long as two things happen:

#1. There is NO increase in the money supply - FREEZE IT or tie it to gold and silver.

#2. NO Fractional Reserve Banking. Make banks adhere to the SAME rules of contract that the rest of us have to.

In a real contract there must be "consideration" or value from BOTH sides or the contract is null and void.

most if not ALL banking contracts - mortgages, business loans and ;1/2 of the Federal debt are technically NULL and VOID by the laws of this country.

I agree except for one thing. It does matter who controls the money because every time in history central control was given to government or private banksters it has ended in disaster. They will always inflate the currency because they can and they get to spend the new money into circulation before prices rise and it allows them to steal wealth. History and our current monetary system has proven there should be no central control or monopoly on the currency period. This is the very means for corruption and inflation hence devaluing of the currency. Let the market decide what currency the people choose they they will choose sound money and gravitate to it.

Out of the nations 235 yr history we were not under a central bank for about 95 of those years and guess what, it worked beautifully.

The WHO does not control nor dictate monetary policy so recheque your facts on that,

This is a confirmed deal to erase private control and people have problems? Evidently no one cares about their rights or freedoms enough to care and will use any oppourtunity to continually trash this great nation.

The nations greatest financial minds without an agenda are working on this plan.

The end of privitazation of our coin is over and done.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Out of the nations 235 yr history we were not under a central bank for about 95 of those years and guess what, it worked beautifully.

The WHO does not control nor dictate monetary policy so recheque your facts on that,

This is a confirmed deal to erase private control and people have problems? Evidently no one cares about their rights or freedoms enough to care and will use any oppourtunity to continually trash this great nation.

The nations greatest financial minds without an agenda are working on this plan.

The end of privitazation of our coin is over and done.

edit on 27-3-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

There is nothing wrong with private money as long as there is no a government enforced monopoly on the currency. The problem lies in the fact that government enforces a monopoly of the private interests, in our case the Federal Reserve. You are talking about taking it out the hands of the Federal reserve and into the hands government, state or federal it doesn't matter they will do the same thing the Federal reserve is doing and print and use credit expansion to blow up another bubble period. It's the same hooker with a different dress on and different color lipstick.

You claim the plan is to decentralize, ok great I agree but how do "you" propose to do it? The only way to decentralize money is to end the monopoly of it by banks and or governments period!

And who are these so called greatest financial minds, and where have they been while the Austrian school of economics with people like Mises, Rothbard, Ron Paul, etc have been predicting every recession and depression to a tee and been preaching the solution for decades?

And what is your supposed plan? Oh that's right you can't tell us we must have faith.... Sigh. Dude you have no credibility and it is obvious from your posts you do not understand the current monetary system and what it would take to return to sound money.

reply to post by Mary Rose


A Yahoo Finance article about North Dakota confirms what Ellen Brown has been saying about North Dakota as a model for public banking: "Why North Dakota May Be the Best State in the Country to Live In"

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Out of the nations 235 yr history we were not under a central bank for about 95 of those years and guess what, it worked beautifully.

The WHO does not control nor dictate monetary policy so recheque your facts on that,

This is a confirmed deal to erase private control and people have problems? Evidently no one cares about their rights or freedoms enough to care and will use any oppourtunity to continually trash this great nation.

The nations greatest financial minds without an agenda are working on this plan.

The end of privitazation of our coin is over and done.

edit on 27-3-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

There is nothing wrong with private money as long as there is no a government enforced monopoly on the currency. The problem lies in the fact that government enforces a monopoly of the private interests, in our case the Federal Reserve. You are talking about taking it out the hands of the Federal reserve and into the hands government, state or federal it doesn't matter they will do the same thing the Federal reserve is doing and print and use credit expansion to blow up another bubble period. It's the same hooker with a different dress on and different color lipstick.

You claim the plan is to decentralize, ok great I agree but how do "you" propose to do it? The only way to decentralize money is to end the monopoly of it by banks and or governments period!

And who are these so called greatest financial minds, and where have they been while the Austrian school of economics with people like Mises, Rothbard, Ron Paul, etc have been predicting every recession and depression to a tee and been preaching the solution for decades?

And what is your supposed plan? Oh that's right you can't tell us we must have faith.... Sigh. Dude you have no credibility and it is obvious from your posts you do not understand the current monetary system and what it would take to return to sound money.

edit on 27-3-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

This plan is not mine but a plan that's been getting drawn up for nearly 30 years now. I understand our monetary system better then most. It is you who want to privatize every aspect of our nation.

Every market crisis dating to 1933 has been caused by private control over our coin and to keep on allowing private interest over our coin further errodes freedom, democracy and has us time and time again answering to outsiders. They have been manipulating the market every time they get a bug up their tail. Privitization in this case has failed our nation. Privately control over our banks is the problem.

Watch every video contained in the following link as that explains it all :
www.youtube.com...

Total freedom from these people will only come once we end private control over our coin. They can no longer manipulate one nation against another to further their agenda, they can no longer tank the market when they get a power trip, they will no longer be able to make money while the nation and the world suffers, they are the sole and exclusive reason that this nation is in a freefall, they are the sole reason why unemployment is 10% nationally, they are the cause for a clearcut majority of this nations problems, they can no longer print money "out of thin air" with no real collateral behind it.

Get rid of them and watch this nation come back better, stronger, and more powerful.

How about we privatize the US Dept Of Defense and allow a private cabal to have a nuclear device at the ready? If we do they can use the nuke as leverage to further their cause.

This will be the way forward and quite frankly do not care who likes it or who does not as this is an American issue above all else.

By defending them makes you an instant enemy of The United States Of America and all free people and makes you apart of the problem and not apart of the soulution.

In yours and everyone who is like you's grand plan is to erase Govt out of the equation altogether by erroding and destroying this nation.

When business and capitalism threatens Government that is a dictatorship and when Govt threatens business and capitalism it is democracy, what I specifically mean by that is that when private interest who are only looking out for themselves only it is a dictatorship.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

This plan is not mine but a plan that's been getting drawn up for nearly 30 years now. I understand our monetary system better then most. It is you who want to privatize every aspect of our nation.

Prove there is a plan. No you don't understand the monetary system. History has proven the private sector is more efficient less corrupt and careful then government in every way, and that is the way our country operated for the first 150 years with a few exceptions like the civil war.

Every market crisis dating to 1933 has been caused by private control over our coin and to keep on allowing private interest over our coin further errodes freedom, democracy and has us time and time again answering to outsiders. They have been manipulating the market every time they get a bug up their tail. Privitization in this case has failed our nation. Privately control over our banks is the problem.

Once again you display your complete ignorance. Market crisis's have little to do with who controls the coin it is mostly inherent in fiat currency and their need for inflation to perpetuate. Government forced monopoly of a private banking cartel is what has failed not simple free market privatization. The supposed market crisis's you speak of up to 1933 are laughable and totally insignificant in comparison to the 1933 depression and subsequent recessions every 10 years or so since then. They were regional and local and not national and yes due to private banks issuing fiat money unscrupulously. However there was a free market then and guess what? Those banks went out of business like they were supposed to and there was no such thing as too big to fail and government did not enforce a monopoly on using them as they do today with the Federal reserve so customers took their business elsewhere and the entire nation was not effected as it has been since 1933. We remained a prosperous nation until then. However the few times there was a national crisis is when government intervened like in the revolutionary war and the civil war it was only then and the issuing of fiat currency that caused national crisis and recession and both times the government was issuing the currency.

What part of; the federal government sanctions and perpetuates the Federal Reserve Banking cartel do you not understand? Yet you claim the so called plan that can't be revealed will bring back control to the "federal government". Why in the world would we want those crooks in charge? And how does this plan proposes to get them to cut their benefactors the federal reserve out all of sudden? The people will not vote them out (there's democracy for you) So even if this were true it is unworkable right there. There is a reason democracy is not mentioned in the constitution.

they can no longer print money "out of thin air" with no real collateral behind it.

Study some history dude. The American government has printed money also "out of thin air". the people cannot control the so called government. The power to control money needs to be taken away from not only the banksters but the government also. Getting rid of the banksters requires a complete replacement of government because they are in collusion. The Rothschilds banking dynasty owns the Federal government.

By defending them makes you an instant enemy of The United States Of America and all free people and makes you apart of the problem and not apart of the soulution.

Apparently you have not read a thing I wrote or you are severely mentally challenged... Sigh! I am not defending the banskters.

When business and capitalism threatens Government that is a dictatorship and when Govt threatens business and capitalism it is democracy, what I specifically mean by that is that when private interest who are only looking out for themselves only it is a dictatorship.

No when government threatens private business that is marxism. When Business and government collude to have unfair advantages in the market place you have fascism. In other words government forces a monopoly so certain politically connected businesses can take over the market and oppress the masses because they have not real competition.

Your a friggen marxist... Sigh! Governments only purpose is for mutual defense and to protect free trade not to force citizens into some marxist utopian BS at the point of a gun. Government intervention has already destroyed this nation and idiots want more of it and claim that is the fix. Unbelievable! I'd tell you to read the constitution but you are to mentally challenged to understand it.

This will be the way forward and quite frankly do not care who likes it or who does not as this is an American issue above all else.

Ah yes and the marxist doesn't care about anyone else and wants to bring government force to bear to implement his ridiculous and convoluted ideas... Big sigh! Good luck with that dude because people like you who push this garbage will cause a civil war in America if you persist.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

This plan is not mine but a plan that's been getting drawn up for nearly 30 years now. I understand our monetary system better then most. It is you who want to privatize every aspect of our nation.

Prove there is a plan. No you don't understand the monetary system. History has proven the private sector is more efficient less corrupt and careful then government in every way, and that is the way our country operated for the first 150 years with a few exceptions like the civil war. - No, it will not be revealed as it's being kept offline so that it cannot be circumvented.

Every market crisis dating to 1933 has been caused by private control over our coin and to keep on allowing private interest over our coin further errodes freedom, democracy and has us time and time again answering to outsiders. They have been manipulating the market every time they get a bug up their tail. Privitization in this case has failed our nation. Privately control over our banks is the problem.

Once again you display your complete ignorance. Market crisis's have little to do with who controls the coin it is mostly inherent in fiat currency and their need for inflation to perpetuate. Government forced monopoly of a private banking cartel is what has failed not simple free market privatization. The supposed market crisis's you speak of up to 1933 are laughable and totally insignificant in comparison to the 1933 depression and subsequent recessions every 10 years or so since then. They were regional and local and not national and yes due to private banks issuing fiat money unscrupulously. However there was a free market then and guess what? Those banks went out of business like they were supposed to and there was no such thing as too big to fail and government did not enforce a monopoly on using them as they do today with the Federal reserve so customers took their business elsewhere and the entire nation was not effected as it has been since 1933. We remained a prosperous nation until then. However the few times there was a national crisis is when government intervened like in the revolutionary war and the civil war it was only then and the issuing of fiat currency that caused national crisis and recession and both times the government was issuing the currency.

What part of; the federal government sanctions and perpetuates the Federal Reserve Banking cartel do you not understand? Yet you claim the so called plan that can't be revealed will bring back control to the "federal government". Why in the world would we want those crooks in charge? And how does this plan proposes to get them to cut their benefactors the federal reserve out all of sudden? The people will not vote them out (there's democracy for you) So even if this were true it is unworkable right there. There is a reason democracy is not mentioned in the constitution.

they can no longer print money "out of thin air" with no real collateral behind it.

Study some history dude. The American government has printed money also "out of thin air". the people cannot control the so called government. The power to control money needs to be taken away from not only the banksters but the government also. Getting rid of the banksters requires a complete replacement of government because they are in collusion. The Rothschilds banking dynasty owns the Federal government.
-The Rothschilds own and control The Federal Reserve and that is how the own the US Federal Govt, you just admitted to me the one thing you claim does not exist.

By defending them makes you an instant enemy of The United States Of America and all free people and makes you apart of the problem and not apart of the soulution.

Apparently you have not read a thing I wrote or you are severely mentally challenged... Sigh! I am not defending the banskters.

When business and capitalism threatens Government that is a dictatorship and when Govt threatens business and capitalism it is democracy, what I specifically mean by that is that when private interest who are only looking out for themselves only it is a dictatorship.

No when government threatens private business that is marxism. When Business and government collude to have unfair advantages in the market place you have fascism. In other words government forces a monopoly so certain politically connected businesses can take over the market and oppress the masses because they have not real competition.

Your a friggen marxist... Sigh! Governments only purpose is for mutual defense and to protect free trade not to force citizens into some marxist utopian BS at the point of a gun. Government intervention has already destroyed this nation and idiots want more of it and claim that is the fix. Unbelievable! I'd tell you to read the constitution but you are to mentally challenged to understand it.

--OK, let's privatize FEMA, DOD, NSA, and every aspect of Govt and leave the people powerless.

This will be the way forward and quite frankly do not care who likes it or who does not as this is an American issue above all else.

Ah yes and the marxist doesn't care about anyone else and wants to bring government force to bear to implement his ridiculous and convoluted ideas... Big sigh! Good luck with that dude because people like you who push this garbage will cause a civil war in America if you persist.

edit on 28-3-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

It is you who is misinformed and want to erase and destroy everything this nation stands for. When this nation was founded there was no central bank.

Example is that if you come to me for money I can dictate any damn thing I want and you must accept every term because if you try to go elsewhere anyone who does will get destroyed. This is the kind of games they've bene playing for centuries,

Really, get off of this site you Anti American swine! Those who are blind to the lies and con of The Federal Reserve deserve every little thing you got coming to you as you are the problem, privitazation is the problem.

43 tried to privatize Social Security as early as 2004 and if he got his way everyone's SS would've been wiped out in the 2008 financial crash. That is a fact.

What you post is defending to the death the illegal cartel known as The Federal Reserve and will fall like how they will fall soon. Their end is soon.

Let's not stop there and privatize The US Secert Service and The US State Dept and make it that much easier for someone to look the other way and risk the security of our leaders. Why stop there, how about we sell The White House, Capitol Hill, The Pentagon, Air Force One, Marine One, The Beast while we are at it, leave every single security apparatus open and vulnerable to intrusion. There was an attempt recently to privatize the US Postal Service and that plan failed.

PRIVATIZATION IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ERROSION OF MORE FREEDOMS THEN ANY TERRORIST GROUP COMBINED.

Do not reply to me until you gain knowledge and grow a brain.

My iq makes me a Top 25%'r and am running circles around you on this thread and you are quick to call me a marxist my, my how far have we fallen!

HOOK, LINE, SINKER, SUNK!

TROLL ALERT, TROLL ALERT, TROLL ALERT, TROLL ALERT. DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Dude your in your own little world aren't you. You don't even argue with what I say, you just make crap up and then argue against it... Your like the homeless guy on the corner talking to himself. I guess it is pointless to continue to argue with ignorance and mental incapacity...

Hmmm maybe this guys is a sock puppet. No coherent argument that relates to anything just a bunch of babbling and insults. Maybe i am the sucker here.

reply to post by hawkiye

It does matter who controls the money because every time in history central control was given to government or private banksters it has ended in disaster.

I was talking about "control" in terms of weights and measures.

It used to be, once a gold or silver coin became worn so it no longer was the correct weight, the government would take it out of circulation, smelt it down and replace it. That is the type of "control" I am talking about. It is also why I said NO FRACTIONAL RESERVE!

It keeps us from all having to have calibrated scales on hand to do trading.

I was commenting from the point of view of Mises on "SOUND MONEY"

CHANGES IN THE MONEY SUPPLY

We now come to another crucial aspect of Mises's theory of money. Indeed, it is a uniquely distinguishing feature of his monetary theory, one that is not shared by other modern schools of economic thought. Because money is not capital, he concluded that an increase of the money supply confers no identifiable social value.

"An increase in the quantity of money can no more increase the welfare of the members of a community, than a diminution of it can decrease their welfare."

... Production goods derive their value from that of their products. Not so money; for no increase in the welfare of the members of a society can result from the availability of an additional quantity of money. The laws which govern the value of money are different from those which govern the value of production goods and from those which govern the value of consumption goods (p. 84).

www.econlib.org...

NO NEW MONEY IS REQUIRED!

On the very next page of Human Action, Mises discussed the free market's use of whatever quantity of money is presently in presently circulation. "As the operation of the market tends to determine the final state of money's purchasing power at the height at which the supply of and the demand for money coincide, there can never be an excess or deficiency of money. Each individual and all individuals together always enjoy fully the advantages which they can derive from indirect exchange and the use of money, no matter whether the total quantity of money is great or small." The conclusion is obvious, and he makes it: "The quantity of money available in the whole economy is always sufficient to secure for everybody all that money does and can do" (p. 421).

I emphasize this because there are economic commentators and analysts who claim to represent Mises's position on monetary theory, but who are proponents of the expansion of money by the State or by the fractional reserve banking system. They argue that society can and does benefit from such an expansion of money. Make no mistake about this: anyone who argues that a change in the money supply conveys either net social benefits or net social costs has repudiated Mises's explicit statement to the contrary in his earlier writings, and has repudiated Mises's denial in his later writings regarding anyone's ability to make such a scientific judgment. He who defends, in the name of Mises, government or central bank policies that deliberately promote either monetary inflation or monetary deflation has two obligations: (1) to show why his recommended policy is really consistent with Mises's economic theory; (2) to suggest reasons that led Mises to make such a serious mistake about the implications of his own theory.

Mises was in favor of free markets. He did not recommend civil laws against voluntary exchange. Therefore, he did not oppose gold mining. He did not recommend that the State prohibit miners from adding to the quantity of money. But he readily acknowledged that any increase of the money supply from gold mining will inflict losses on some participants in the economy — participants who were not parties in the original transaction of selling new gold into the economy. In this sense, changes in the money cannot be neutral. There will inevitably be winners and losers.

Mises stressed the following fact in his theory of money: new money enters an economy at specific points, i.e., through specific voluntary exchanges. New money does not appear magically in equal percentages in all people's bank accounts or under their mattresses. Money spreads unevenly, and this process has varying effects on individuals, depending on whether they receive early or late access to the new money. This was one of Mises's original contributions to monetary theory, one that is ignored by all other schools of economic analysis..... Mises on Money

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression of what I meant.

I'm from North Dakota

Riding the economy out like a Boss.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

Dude your in your own little world aren't you. You don't even argue with what I say, you just make crap up and then argue against it... Your like the homeless guy on the corner talking to himself. I guess it is pointless to continue to argue with ignorance and mental incapacity...

Hmmm maybe this guys is a sock puppet. No coherent argument that relates to anything just a bunch of babbling and insults. Maybe i am the sucker here.

edit on 28-3-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

Who does your allegiance lie? The ConserviBaggers or The United States or The Federal Reserve?

Are you a plant hired by The Federal Reserve to attempt to divert and deflect? How much blood money did they pay you? If you are, it will only be a matter of time before you get tossed under the bus. That's it, you are a plant courtesy of The Federal Reserve-Rotschilds-TPTB to stir up trouble because before your continued futile attempt to disrupt this thread by hijacking it to discredit and derail this otherwise peaceful and civil thread, You have no other purpose here.

My argument is very proficient and eloquent it is you who clearly has the dellusion that privitization is the exatensial solution to everything.

My mental capacity far exceeds that of you as based on my iq alone is indicitive that what I say is fact.

I had the unique oppourtunity to uncover alot of truth over the last decade or so meeting and conversing with certain, namelss indiviuduals that most would only dream of. I've met a literate who's who of The American TPTB and can assure you and each and every person here that the era of the massive grab for power is over by this group.

During a work order sometime between 04 - 06 I remember knocking 6 of them out cold and denying them an ambulance just to prove how serious not only the people but the nation truly is.

Wait until sometime late next year for some info to be released and that will back up just about everything I am talking about today.

The marching orders to The Bilderberg Group is that they are to leave this alone during it's annual meeting this year and next.

Keep on pushing and playing into the Two Party Oligarchy and watch how far it gets you!

In seriousness, I am not here to fight with you or anyone here because when we fight amongst ourselves TPTB and The terrorists win. I forever will be open to new ideas and will embrace new ideaology if new information comes along that is firmly grounded and based in reality, logic and common sense as well as any agenda that moves forth not only the National objectives but the human objective as well.

My war is declared against TPTB and not regular American citizens as when we target one another we waste resouces and it leads to descent and chaos.