Do you know what is cynism ?

Originally posted by Abraham Virtue
Won't the struggle to maintain the Iraqi state be a contradiction to our ability to profit off of the war?????? The war itself will cost some 80 billion dollars, some say as high as 200 billion.

Um..... Now, did anyone here say that the US was the saint of the world? No. Which seems to be "our thought" that you're pointing to, as well as the fact that "we think" that US citizens who want this war don't understand the immense cost. Well guess what, mr. Virtue... Nothing comes without a cost. Are you against WWII? It lasted years longer than this little skirmish will..... and cost much more(relatively, our money is worth less than it used to be) than this will. And we destroyed the fool who was a danger. This what we will do here. We will protect our "allies"(I still don't trust people like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait) from this madman and we will spare the Iraqi people the torture of having Saddam as their ruler.

I seems to me that you draw all this to the US's "discomprehension" of this war. The only ones who have this discomprehension of the situation are you, Nans, and our "president", Bush.

Ce que je vous dis ici n'est pas seulement un personnel, mais bien le sentiment de tout un peuple, et mes des nation unies toutes entieres :
Nous avons �t�s surpris et bless� de la mani�re avec laquelles votre president actuel, Georges W BUSH, � rejeter nos tentatives pour garantir la paix et la souverainet� des �tats, membres permanents ou non de l'ONU.
Si nous sommes oppos�s, en majorit� en France, en Allemagne, en Belgique et en Europe en general � une deuxi�me guerre du golf, c'est que nous nous rendons bien compte que la premi�re guerre du golf a �t� un echec, un fiasco qui � plong� le monde entier dans la r�cession et la crise �conomique. Nous considerons GW-BUSH comme un "vas-en-guerre", quelqu'un qui n'ayant pas pu capturer les veritables responsables des attentats 11 septembre cherche par tous les moyen � justifier aupr�s de ces �l�cteurs une action et des resultats concrets et ce � n'importe quel prix.
Tous les experts en terrorisme international vous le dirons : Il n'y pas de lien entre AL-QAEDA et Saddam HUSSAIN. A maintes reprises, Ben LADEN � critiqu� SADDAM, notamment parceque SADDAM HUSSAIN a �t� �lu � la tete d'un partis socialiste progressite, et non islamiste.

Bush fils nous semble vouloir terminer ce que Bush pere n'a pas su conclure !

Ceci dis, et je peut comprendre que pour vous qui �tes de nationalit� americaine et resident sur le sol am�ricain cel� peut vous paraitre etrange, mais vous ne savez pas qu'au fond, L'anti-americanisme se nourrit de la sur-domination am�ricaine.

Pour nous qui sommes �tranger, l'am�rique � deux visages :
Celui qu'elle vous montre � travers les media, Hollywood et la television : Celui d'une amerique qui defend les vrais valeur, le patriotism et la libert�.
Mais pour nous qui vivons au dehors, nous n'y voyons qu'un geant, un titan et aussi un tyran, qui nous impose des modes de vies, de consommations etc ... Qui cherche � absorber nos cultures et toujours nous imposer sa volont� par la force, au m�pris de la souverainet� et souvent de la vie des peuples du monde.

Voil�, j'avoue que je regrette un peu d'avoir decouvert votre forum dans une periode aussi mauvaise. Ca fait maintenant plusieurs ann�es que j'enquete au sujet du nouvelle ordre mondial (Que j'appelais jusqu'ici "Planification de la soci�t�"), des soci�t�s secr�tes et des armes de nouvelles technologies (Notamment les armes psycho-electroniques).
Je sais que mon pays, qui est loin d'etre un pays parfait, fournis pas mal de materiel � votre nation, notamment des radar HF micro-ondes et des pulseurs VLF, par l'intermediaire de MATRA-DASSAULT-THALES (Ex-THOMSON) consortium, mais �a, ce sera pour une autre thread...

Hello Nans DESMICHELS,

Thanks for posting in French. Below is the French to English translation of your post provided by:


freetranslations.com...


Indeed,

This that I say you here is not only a personnel, but well the feeling of all a people, and my united nations completely: We were surprised and injured manner with which one your current president, Georges W BUSH, to reject our attempts to guarantee peace and the sovereignty of the states, permanent members or no of the Un. If we opposed, in majority in France, in Germany, in Belgium and in Europe in general to a second war of the golf, this is that we return well counts ourselves that the first war of the golf was an echec, a fiasco that to dived the entire world in the recession and the economical crisis. We considerons gw-bush as a "vas-en-guerre", someone that not having been able to have captured the responsible veritables of the attempts 11 September looks for by all the means to justify with these �l�cteurs an action and concrete resultats and this to any price. All the experts in international terrorism you will say it: It not there any link between al-qaeda and Saddam HUSSAIN. To many returns, Ben LADEN to criticized SADDAM, notably parceque SADDAM HUSSAIN was elected to the tete on a part socialist progressite, and Islamist no.

Bush sons seems for us to want to finish this that Bush pere did not know to conclude!

This says, and I can understand that for you that nationality �tes americaine and resident on the American ground cel� can you paraitre etrange, but you do not know that to the bottom, THE ANTI ANTI-L'anti-americanisme ANTI L'anti-americanisme nourishes itself of the on American domination.

For us that are foreigner, the america to two faces: the one that she shows you through the media, Hollywood and the television: the one of an amerique that defend the true values, the patriotism and liberty. But for us that let us live to the outside, we do not there see that a geant, a titan and also a tyran, that imposes us methods of lives, of consumptions etc... Who tries to absorb our cultures and always to impose us his will by the force, to the contempt of the sovereignty and often life of the peoples of the world.

Here, I had that I regret a little to have decouvert your forum in SUCH BAD periode. Ca does now several years that I investigation on the subject of the world-wide new order (That I called so far "Planning of the corporation"), corporations exude and weapons again technologies (Notably arm them psycho-electroniques). I know that my country, that far of etre a perfect country, furnished not poorly materiel to your nation, notably radar HF microphone waves and pulseurs VLF, by the intermediaire of MATRA-DASSAULT one-THALES (Former thomson) consortium, but that, this will be for another thread...




Vous pouvez continuer aussi poster dans Nans anglais. ..it marques de comme le beaucoup de sens.

deleted

If you are not racist then why is it that Nans has to defend her whole nation against your degrading and inflammatory speech; or exuse me blabber. If you can answer that one without fooling yourself than be my guest. Otherwise just learn to live with this moments' life lesson and probe into your POSSIBLE FAULT. I mean it's like you don't have any and Nans does because she's a pacifist and a thinker, not a sheep like you with no ambition of her own. I think you like to pick on the people you think you would be at ease to belittle, so to make your weak self look bigger than you really are. Kind of like how our government acts. If you and this country had any sense you wouldn't preach hate and war to the rest of the world. Not to mention degrade those who don't agree with your country's unfair war-mongering attitude.

You even went as far as mentioning that because I oppose this war, it is likely that I opposed WWII. That just shows how far your mind goes before it stops thinking. You sir are one who needs to grow up and respect other people and their views. Stop tryting to impose your will on others. Don't tell me you aren't because if you weren't you wouldn't even bother talking to Nans, much less making fun of her. I think if anyone should be kicked it is you for you constant harassment opon her and the country of France. Mind you this harassment comes in the form of Anti-ness towards anything that doesn't fully and blindly authorize leaglized murder and rape opon a starving and oppressed nation.

Originally posted by deleted

Hello Nans DESMICHELS,
Thanks for posting in French. Below is the French to English translation of your post provided by:
freetranslations.com...

"vas-en-guerre" : A person who think that war is the only solution to solve conflicts.

To many returns, Ben LADEN to criticized SADDAM, notably because SADDAM HUSSAIN was elected ahead of a socialist-progressit party.

Bush sons seems for us to want to finish this that Bush elder did not know to conclude!

This says, and I can understand that un-americanism is a sttange things, but it's a reality worldwide. Instead your governement try to hide it to you.

"Social Planing"),
corporations exude and weapons again technologies
(psychotronics weapons).

I know that my country is not a perfect country.
We sells weapons radar HF microwaves and EM/pulsors VLF, (MATRA-DASSAULT-THALES consortium),

but that, this will be for another thread...


Vous pouvez continuer aussi poster dans Nans anglais. ..it marques de comme le beaucoup de sens.
deleted

En effet !
Right !

3 Remark :

1) If echelon translate foreign language with the same algorythms, It dont work !

2) When U_P say that he is not rascist... I doubt
Could you tell me what is your politic apartenance so ?!

3) I got a big default : I think in french and I try to translate french in english. But there are a lot of idiomatics expressions that are simply UN-TRANSLATABLE.

Abraham Virtue, I'm not racist, but it's true, I don't like France and what France is doing just right now. And I don't think that I'm racist cuz I don't like what a country and his peoples are doing.

And for Nans, I can write her/him what I want. Because if I'm racist when I write that I don't agree with her/him, it means that she/he's racist too when he/she don't agree with me.

I'll agree with you on one point : " your constant harassment opon her/him and the country of France ".

But she/do the same over the USA and those who don't agree with her/him !

Oh yeah, one last thing. Go live in France and you'll understand my point of view. I did it, so I know them ( the french ), much better than you.

Nans, even when you write in french, it's hard to understand you and what you mean. You're not writing like an adult but like a teenager. How old are you ? 14 ? 16 ? Because if you are really an adult, you have to go back in school. My poor english is better than your so-called french.

You did 45 spelling errors in your so-called french text !!!!!!!!!!
And I will not say anything about your grammar, who's like your spelling : very poor !

Also, what you wrote is not true. The whole europe is NOT behind France and Germany. In fact, France and Germany are really alone in the EU.

Here, the good text without any errors :

Ce que je vous dis ici n'est pas seulement un sentiment personnel, mais bien le sentiment de tout un peuple, et m�me des nation unies toutes enti�res :
Nous avons �t�s surpris et bless�s de la mani�re avec laquelle votre pr�sident actuel, Georges W BUSH, � rejeter nos tentatives pour garantir la paix et la souverainet� des �tats, membres permanents ou non de l'ONU.
Si nous sommes oppos�s, en majorit� en France, en Allemagne, en Belgique et en Europe en g�n�ral � une deuxi�me guerre du golf, c'est que nous nous rendons bien compte que la premi�re guerre du golf a �t� un �chec, un fiasco qui � plong� le monde entier dans la r�cession et la crise �conomique. Nous consid�rons GW-BUSH comme un "va-t�en-guerre", quelqu'un qui n'ayant pas pu capturer les v�ritables responsables des attentats 11 septembre cherche par tous les moyen � justifier aupr�s de ces �lecteurs une action et des r�sultats concrets et ce � n'importe quel prix.
Tous les experts en terrorisme international vous le dirons : Il n'y pas de lien entre AL-QAIDA et Saddam HUSSEIN. A maintes reprises, Ben LADEN � critiqu� SADDAM, notamment parce que SADDAM HUSSEIN a �t� �lu � la t�te d'un partis socialiste progressiste, et non islamiste.

Bush fils nous semble vouloir terminer ce que Bush p�re n'a pas su conclure !

Ceci dis, et je peut comprendre que pour vous qui �tes de nationalit� am�ricaine et r�sident sur le sol am�ricain cela peut vous para�tre �trange, mais vous ne savez pas qu'au fond, L'anti-am�ricanisme se nourrit de la sur-domination am�ricaine.

Pour nous qui sommes �tranger, l'Am�rique � deux visages :
Celui qu'elle vous montre � travers les m�dia, Hollywood et la t�l�vision : Celui d'une Am�rique qui d�fend les vrais valeur, le patriotisme et la libert�.
Mais pour nous qui vivons au dehors, nous n'y voyons qu'un g�ant, un titan et aussi un tyran, qui nous impose des modes de vies, de consommations etc. ... Qui cherche � absorber nos cultures et toujours nous imposer sa volont� par la force, au m�pris de la souverainet� et souvent de la vie des peuples du monde.

Voil�, j'avoue que je regrette un peu d'avoir d�couvert votre forum dans une p�riode aussi mauvaise. Ca fait maintenant plusieurs ann�es que j'enqu�te au sujet du nouvelle ordre mondial (Que j'appelais jusqu'ici "Planification de la soci�t�"), des soci�t�s secr�tes et des armes de nouvelles technologies (Notamment les armes psychos-�lectroniques).
Je sais que mon pays, qui est loin d'�tre un pays parfait, fournis pas mal de mat�riel � votre nation, notamment des radar HF micro-ondes et des pulseurs VLF, par l'interm�diaire de MATRA-DASSAULT-THALES (Ex-THOMSON) consortium, mais �a, ce sera pour un autre topic.

I know your not racist. No you can't be racist if you dislike a nations stance, but if you are abusive towards that nation for any reason, you are more and more likely to become a potential racist. You See?????? What I am trying to preach here is that you and Nans WILL disagree, that's life, people have to disagree somhow or else they would be the same, right? Well maybe if we didn't try so hard to change others and tried to change ourselves, for ourselves and for others than we would actually start seeing a common ground. You See? Next time, if you don't understand Nans or even if she offends you, don't just protect yourself by countering her statement, but PROBE INTO her statement as well. Find out why she thinks that way and then you can begin to understand her better. So it's all about how you handle what is given to you that makes what you get back worth it. Does that make sense??? I wish to see us all in deep discussion about society and it's moral threshold. I personally think that is the issue which seperates you from Nans and I. So once again I'm sorry for my remarks, and I admit they were statigically placed for effect on your psyche. I wanted your attention and knew that would get it. That can be a cheap shot if you like but I call it a smart shot. Sorry for the bluntness, I can be painfully honest at times. What it comes down to is I know that you are not hateful but that you maybe hateful of hate itself, which is understood. The problem is hate is hate. So the only way around it is LOVE. You See?????????????

Originally posted by Abraham Virtue
I know your not racist. No you can't be racist if you dislike a nations stance, but if you are abusive towards that nation for any reason, you are more and more likely to become a potential racist. You See?????? What I am trying to preach here is that you and Nans WILL disagree, that's life, people have to disagree somhow or else they would be the same, right? Well maybe if we didn't try so hard to change others and tried to change ourselves, for ourselves and for others than we would actually start seeing a common ground. You See? Next time, if you don't understand Nans or even if she offends you, don't just protect yourself by countering her statement, but PROBE INTO her statement as well. Find out why she thinks that way and then you can begin to understand her better. So it's all about how you handle what is given to you that makes what you get back worth it. Does that make sense??? I wish to see us all in deep discussion about society and it's moral threshold. I personally think that is the issue which seperates you from Nans and I. So once again I'm sorry for my remarks, and I admit they were statigically placed for effect on your psyche. I wanted your attention and knew that would get it. That can be a cheap shot if you like but I call it a smart shot. Sorry for the bluntness, I can be painfully honest at times. What it comes down to is I know that you are not hateful but that you maybe hateful of hate itself, which is understood. The problem is hate is hate. So the only way around it is LOVE. You See?????????????

Yes, I understand you AV. But you have to know something. If many peoples don't like France it's for a good reason ( What' s a good reason " anyway ? ). France and frenchies are seeign themselves like the centre of the Universe. " We are " La France " ", " we have allways right ", etc...etc...

They are responsible for their behaviour.

Also, you don't know it, but in the beginning, I tryed to help Nans. We were communicating via u2u ( in french & english ), and I think that I tryed to have an adult behavior with Nans. Almost impossible, he/she was too much childish.

Check the forum, and you'll see why all these anti-France craps started. It's difficult to communicate with someone who's allways playing with your nerves in a childish way. I'm living near France ( fortunately, NOT in france ), and I have to deal with them all the saint journey ( radio, tv, newspaper, policy...). You know, they are really boring those frenchie and its not difficult to becomme a basic anti-french. I've many friends, from many different horizon ( Asia, Africa, Eastern europe ) and we share all the same opinion : WE DON'T LIKE FRANCE AND WE THINK THEY ARE NUTS ! When so many peoples from so many horizon don't like something or someone, sure, there is a good reason. I bet we will find that reason in France,especially in their frenchie " who know everything and have allways right " behaviors.

Go live in France and you'll understand my point of view. I did it, so I know them ( the french ), much better than you.

If you have the same attitude on a discussion forum and in everyday life, I understand why my compatriots was so unpleasants with you...
Heu... What is your AMERICA if France is center of the UNIVERSE ?! Central-America .?!

(Enfin l�, je suis pas sure que tu puisses comprendre)

Ha, Et pour les fautes d'Orthographes d�sol� mais on est sur l'internet hein :
Ha... X sure that OrthograFFX correxion is a usage on the 3-Web.

(sucker)

So, USA must leave UN, Muslims all are terrorists, Frenchs Germans and Europeans against the war (70% of europeans) stinks. And you ARE NOT as stupid as rascist ?!

[Edited on 9-3-2003 by Nans DESMICHELS]