Religion, Science, And Metaphysics

My Formulated Opinion:

The purpose of religion is the same purpose that science serves in relation to human beings.

In the beginning of time, before science and observation through technology, humans created their own explanations about how the world worked, aka mythology, metaphors, and various allegorical stories.

This explaining of the world around them was a natural part of the humans intrinsic desire to attain knowledge. The knowledge I speak of is the knowledge of origin and reality. People created these ideas because with the knowledge laid before them we were able to advance and grow, holding onto these beliefs to give us a purpose and further understanding of who and what we are. Language also played a huge role in how we began to use thoughts with words to shape the way we viewed the world around us.

Over a period of time we began to explain the world around us using inferences made with the discoveries found through observation with technology. This philosophy of nature and the world around us was given the name "science." Over time we use the anomalies discovered within our current paradigms of the age to either expand and further explain our findings within the paradigm, shedding new light to our current beliefs, or through destroying the original paradigm and moving on to new systems of belief. When we break out of our current paradigms we experience what many have called throughout the centuries as "enlightenment." This process begins with the culmination of thought pertaining to the philosophy of reality. With the new scientific knowledge, and new paradigm to work in, the world as we view it entirely takes on a new form, and society evolves with it.

Back to Religion:

When all of this began to occur, there was a divide in the way of thinking leading some to embrace, maintain, and even prefer their original ideas of myth and legend to the new developments of science. The reason why people cling to these beliefs is simple: the eldest of the society have experienced a lifetime thinking in one way, and would rather die believing what they've always known (who wouldn't?) The generations younger than that who believe these ideas do so out of genetics, their own upbringing, and life experiences.

So essentially what we can conclude is that science and religion serve the same core value to all humans, as before science advanced our ways of thinking, most all society embraced the values of their respective cultures and schools of thought.

Let's shift this conversation now the modern day:

Our educational process is filled with subjective learning and knowledge. There is no learning about science, what it means, how it started, what its goals are. You simply learn what you're told are facts. Beginning with the Aristotelian/Ptolemaic school of thought we progressed through the Renaissance with the Copernican Revolution. Two hundred years later we enter the Newtonian Age of Science, to be followed again in two hundred years with the Einsteinian Age, which lasted all up through the forties, where the newest forms of science exist in the areas of wave mechanics, quantum physics, quark theory, and string theory. Every single time society enters a new age of science, it takes time for the philosophy of reality to emerge, but when it does people eventually spread these new ideas and ways of thinking. However, throughout history there have been two main enemies to this process. Our good old friends of science, government and religion. Now depending on specific religious beliefs, you might find that ancient ways of thinking connect with the newer forms of philosophy on reality, which had to do with chakra, energy, and waves. My point is that religion fears new scientific developments because there is always even more potential to damage or take away from its established "legitimacy." (ex. not believing humanity was the center of the universe)

--- BREAK

With government we see that monarchy didn't want a massive shift away from believing in the church because it would mean that people wouldn't believe in their "divine right" to rule through royal bloodlines, lineages, and dynasties. However, as observed government merely changed its titles, stayed in power, and tried to become somewhat secular of religious affiliation. Similarly it can be seen today that if everyone were to apply the new ideas of what we think reality is (in relation to the newest scientific paradigms) to their daily lives, we'd all be searching for what's out there in the wonderful metaphysical. Those who give up this quest by clinging to an ideology are never going to find the truth. The truth is simple. Nothing is true, at least, perceivably so. We don't know everything about our own reality, everything we do "know" only applies within the paradigms of that time, and there is never a guaruntee that our newest developments are any closer than the old. Hitting back home to the original point I'm making, governments in the eyes of the people, lose more and more legitimacy, the closer we get to figuring out our reality.

So what does it really mean to know something? What are the purposes of this quest some of us are stuck on? I believe firmly that questions are better than answers, and the only way to figure out what we are, is to keep furthering our own exploration and observation, to the best of our abilities at all given points in time. Maintain an objective mind, but know that even objectivity has its limitations. Understand that when operating objectively you are basing your testing on whatever current paradigm you do follow, in relation to determining the legitimacy of your newly established evidence.

Descartes believed that the human soul manifested itself through our pineal gland and sent the first signals to our brains causing us to act. It wasn't for years and years later that science determined that our conscious thought to do something occurs after the signals are fired. Was he on to something? Or was he merely coming to a logical conclusion based on speculative thought. Either way the best thing about it is that we can gather more questions, not answers. Questions such as: Is it one human soul, per person, pulling these strings? Is this even plausible? Or perhaps maybe, we're all actually one entity or soul pulling everyones strings from a higher level. Only perceiving the individual experience of each body (sensor.)

Anyway, hello ATS. This is my first thread. This is just something that's been on my mind lately. Feel free to move it to the appropriate board, as I feel there are reasons I could put it in a multitude of different boards, but that is irrelevant to me, as long as people can read it.

"The truth is simple. Nothing is true,"

Hello there BladeDraven that is a great piece of writing for your first post ...welcome to the forum
This line that you wrote above jumped out of the page as one of the truest of all statements

When stripping away our beliefs the great truth is revealed ...
In the great book of truth there is one truth and that truth being ..is that

"all truth is a lie"

To believe in something is like wearing a blind fold, it stops you from seeing beyond the reflection
In essence all that is known blinds and restricts our access to see beyond our self

I am the seeker and the finder
one and the same

And I cannot see it when I am being it ...I "self" can only see it ..when I am not being it

Peeling back the layers of beliefs is where a person needs to start ..when searching for the ultimate truth

And the best teacher to help you along the way is someone who can "unlearn" you .....

"In essence all that is known blinds and restricts our access to see beyond our self

And I cannot see it when I am being it ...I "self" can only see it ..when I am not being it

you bring an interesting point of substancial being, you cant see beyond if you are not being something, the comparaison is the objective perspective as positive truth

from what you can perceive objective as the same substancially but much more existing then you, is what make you recognize objective before yourself, which is the truth of self being to know after being, you would understand the sense of freedom as the evolution of conceptualisations on how being work

free life is about moving forward meaning objective is positive more and then backwards meaning freedom in concepts life, that is how you can become someone free out of truth that is never one, as it means always absolute positive value justifications life as always

you can see in observing the issue of the world being what rare are who move forward alone, now of course everyone fear to take a step alone from our conditions being in survival mode surrounding by threats of deep lost, but still even in calculating risks very few tend to mean the step forward and that is the major point for positive rights to be

moving positively is knowing the law of sameness that realize the living true reality of positive result objectively from that sense of life you are giving to objective positive right as a living yourself

reply to post by imans


like in swiming you must move your legs while seeing the water driven you at the surface to float above your head

or flying you must realize entirely the whole flight right alone with your mind to come back down safely

reply to post by imans



hi there Imans
yes ...It is the truth that sets us free
Because the unknowable truth is realized by the experience of no self to be with out reflection ...
This experience is then tried to be made sense of by ones own intellect ...
Where the intellect struggles to find reflection so it can make sense of it's "self dissolving" experience
In the end it is forced to give up ..to surrender
And this becomes know as the knowledge of knowing nothing
Kind of like the body knows what it is yet the intellect cannot grasp hold of the experience of it's self disappearing
Yet still being ...(to be dead and yet still alive)

When this state has been experienced the self knows it has nowhere else to go except ..
To turn around and bring this knowledge through itself and out into reality
The self has understood that yes it can die and.... still be (here)
This understanding kills all the fear of death and breaks the mirrors of self illusion and atachment to the world
It opens up the truth of our being and also the truth of life, love and death and thats when our journey really begins >>>

spiritual teachers point towards this experince and use meditation to hopefully make the experince happen
yet who knows for sure how this expereince ..comes about ?

reply to post by xsheep


hi Xsheep,

here is another point that a lot of spiritual mean but i have another perspective of nothing about it

in nothing all is of absolute positive and there is no struggle in negative or surrender obligations, there is no move to make unless for positive more that could be in truth reference of course
but when it is in lies of appearence and pretentions people are being all true by being of the positive flaws in the whole reality, only who step out to abuse or deny all reality are wrong and called evil wills
so people are not guilty by meaning their positive reality

it is all a mascarad made by god to use his powers for masking any recognition of his full guilt for all waht reality is based on evil systems life
so it is asking the people to refuse reality and surrender to the will of god to correct it, it is complete nonsense how it is calling a repentent who is doing the whole job that he cannot do anything of, instead of giving a medal to anyone who can step back of reality meaning it being wrong, they are asking those people to get on their knees and thank god for enlightening them about it

it is god and nature that realized those souls bodies life in egos pretenses expressions of fake perspective conditions and emotionnal animal complex but heavy superficial senses of lies too, keeping justifying the lie as being for truth is not doing anything but lies life justifications

i can defend my position in meaning existentialism in truth, you must exist first to care or recognize anything even if it is nothing, and to exist you must be clear in meaning something positively more then you
it is not by being nothing that you become something, you dont get a reply of nothing you get a reply of the positive reality you mean in nothing secretly, nothing dont do anything it is the positive move in nothing that mean freedom life absolutely
any negative happening only say that the whole existence is wrong, you cant be learning anything of that when it means that your existence is wrong of what the whole reality is evil lie
it cannot mean that god then is right he must proove how he is right especially when he is that existence life

at the base in nothing there is a reality of truth absolute realisations that randomly is called love, it says how at a certain level all is positive necessarly, because of certainty fact, what is certain always would deny its fact if it was really nothing or negative, and certainty is confirmed by positive life or the concept of positive more meaning the source being certainty

it is the principle that say how another present make you more present wether you react to or you mean something else from same thing share to proove, i understand from where that principle could come, from what a whole is always from two extremes being joint, so the void justification is that equality of what is essentially completly else, so the reaction is always conditionned in sameness end and the means are substantially condition to realize absolute samness equality as positive present first

i understand how you could perceive nothing as positive in such negative reality of all, but nothing is not positive truth, it is the certainty concept of void justification that is the source of nothing perception as freedom life

you must realize a positive move to mean positive value end that would then for sure as positive more would never kill you
and you would never sense even a push on your arm

it is simply that initiating a true move alone is like making moving the whole void to live of that slight more, that say the value of free move being on vertical axe superior to absolute positive life of the whole same certainty existence sense