Project Prevention is here in the UK

I know about this project in the USA, but did not realize it has now been set up here in the UK also, I just saw it debated on a tv show, and after seeing this, I am appalled by this "targeting" vulnerable people.

www.independent.co.uk...

Reality is a Crack head would sell you their kidneys if they were desperate for their "hit". People do stop taking drugs/alcohol etc. and i'm worried about the long term effect that sterilization may have on ex-addicts who "took the cash" and now may regret it years down the line when they are in a stable, loving relationship and want to, but can't, have a family. I could see huge court cases in the future, as I don't think there is much worse than taking away a woman's natural ability to have children and keep the human race alive, especially when "tempted" by "cash" payouts! Vulnerable people are called vulnerable because they are easy to manipulate and take advantage of!

I know there are people who will say "what about the babies", but, from the great debate I have just seen, my view is this, Project Prevention are of the opinion that it's better not to be born at all, than to be born with "problems", well, nobody's perfect by far, and this statement makes me wonder whether they also think that disabled people should be dispatched also, as they too have big problems! This does not sit very well with me at all! It is a scheme where Addicts of one form or another are being exploited, and as it is now voluntary (perhaps a way of getting the main population learning to accept it, i.e. kids have been carrying ID cards for years now, so when they are young adults carrying i.d. cards won't be an issue!), is there a future agenda for compulsory sterilization of the society's "misfits, undesirables and people who won't tow the line". What next COMPULSORY STERILIZATION OF EVERYONE IN PRISON? I am appalled and don't want this in the UK, or in the planet for that matter!

Peoples lives and circumstances change daily, who is anyone to tell a VULNERABLE person to make a serious life changing decision for CASH, when "TOMORROW IS A NEW DAY!"

The junkies will go straight to their dealers, so that's where the money will go, why not do away with the cash and just offer the drugs/ alcohol, that way the dealers won't get any money, better still, just give the junkies LETHAL doses of drugs and be done away with them once and for all................ I'm joking, but I'm sure there are people who would agree with the above statement, unfortunately!

If we do sterilize anyone, perhaps we should start with MP's, as they are the biggest threat to society, lying bloody scumbags, I LOVE people, but I HATE liars!

Respect

Peace

This is a crime against humanity.

This "Charity" needs to be shut down and every single person involved needs to be locked up, or even executed, because they are dangerous.

# this world, # the government, # the police, # them all. They are all evil and do not deserve to be alive. We put our trust in them, we trust them to run the country on our behalf for our benefit, and look at what they have done in return.

reply to post by Myrddin Wyllt


Myrddin Wyllt.....

As with many things, this is not simply a "black & white" issue.

I can understand the motivation behind it.

However I think that on balance, it will do more harm than good in the long run.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

How is it any different to what hitler was trying to achieve? They think they have the right to decide who can and cant reproduce? That is evil. Its completely against the human instinct, its completely against the nature of life. Its bad enough neutering animals.

I can safely bet that some of the offspring of drug addicts have turned out to be decent people who have lived good lives. And I can guarantee some of the offspring of non-drug addicts have been a danger to our planet and humanity.

This needs to be stopped NOW. I am of the belief that anyone who wants to control or reduce the population of this planet must begin with sacrificing themselves.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Firefly_]

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by Myrddin Wyllt

 

Myrddin Wyllt.....

As with many things, this is not simply a "black & white" issue.

I can understand the motivation behind it.

However I think that on balance, it will do more harm than good in the long run.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

I agree this is not black and white issue, but I think the problem for me stems from the fact that all addicts are vulnerable when Cash incentives are offered for anything, let alone sterilization. Junkies will do anything for cash when they are strung out. It just seems like exploitation to me.

On a conspiracy note, and we love conspiracies...lol, I remember seeing a program about and "addictive gene", makes you wonder if there is not a worldwide agenda, starting voluntarily, for a total elimination of this gene from our species (eventually) by systematically sterilizing carriers, i.e. addicts....... who knows, theoretically possible....?

Come to think of it, there are always bloody junkies in my local chemist, getting prescription drugs, who knows, in the future addicts may have to be "voluntarily sterilized" in order to be prescribed these drugs!

I though the point of helping an addict is to rehabilitate that person into becoming a member of mainstream society, or, living a life without their addictions at the least. If a person who was sterilized for cash, was then later rehabilitated, normal life for them then becomes a life without children, which isn't the norm,

I too think this will cause much more harm than good in the long run.

Holy crap, just read this! This Barbara woman is comparing addicts to animals, dogs specifically


Wiki...

Controversy

Despite the fact that all patients are volunteers, the organization has at times provoked controversy. In part this stems from the way in which the organization promotes its activities, including allegedly targeting poor and minority neighborhoods for the placement of billboard advertising, and distributing flyers with slogans such as "DON'T Let a Pregnancy get in the way of your crack habit". In interviews Barbara Harris compared pregnant women to dogs that need to be neutered. This stance has invoked comparisons to the eugenics movement of the early 20th century.[2] Ms. Harris has repeatedly compared the women the program targets to animals, stating that "I’m not saying these women are dogs, but they’re not acting any more responsible than a dog in heat."[3] She has also stated: "[W]e don’t allow dogs to breed. We spay them. We neuter them. We try to keep them from having unwanted puppies, and yet these women are literally having litters of children."[4][5] In other contexts, she again compared women to animals, stating, "[t]hey’re having litters. They are literally having litters",[6] "[w]e campaign to neuter dogs and yet we allow women to have 10 or 12 kids that they can’t take care of"[7] and, "[w]e have campaigns to spay cats to prevent them from having unwanted kittens, yet we allow these women to have litters of 14 children."[8] On the television news program 60 Minutes II, Ms. Harris was asked about these comments, and given an opportunity to distance herself from them. Instead she reaffirmed them stating, "Well, you know my son that goes to Stanford said ‘[m]om, please don’t ever say that again,’ but it’s the truth, they don’t just have one and two babies, they have litters."[9]

I hate this woman already!

Peace

reply to post by Myrddin Wyllt


Myrddin Wyllt.....

I agree with your point about the addicts being vulnerable because they are desperate for the cash.

Based on the quotation your posted, I also agree that Harris is a bit out there.

Once again.....

I can understand the concern for unwanted & uncared for children & subsequently the thinking involved here.

But in the end, I agree with you that such an extreme approach will cause more harm than good.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

I just had another thought, if this is really about the babies, are addicts who have plenty of money and could afford to pay "other" people to look after their newborns, taken into account, the £300 incentive becomes irrelevant to that specific group of addicts. This must be about reducing the burden of cost of medical and social care which, in the UK, is free for all in need! This issue throws up more questions the more I think about it!

peace

Originally posted by Myrddin Wyllt
I know about this project in the USA, but did not realize it has now been set up here in the UK also, I just saw it debated on a tv show, and after seeing this, I am appalled by this "targeting" vulnerable people.

www.independent.co.uk...

Reality is a Crack head would sell you their kidneys if they were desperate for their "hit". People do stop taking drugs/alcohol etc. and i'm worried about the long term effect that sterilization may have on ex-addicts who "took the cash" and now may regret it years down the line when they are in a stable, loving relationship and want to, but can't, have a family. I could see huge court cases in the future, as I don't think there is much worse than taking away a woman's natural ability to have children and keep the human race alive, especially when "tempted" by "cash" payouts! Vulnerable people are called vulnerable because they are easy to manipulate and take advantage of!

I know there are people who will say "what about the babies", but, from the great debate I have just seen, my view is this, Project Prevention are of the opinion that it's better not to be born at all, than to be born with "problems", well, nobody's perfect by far, and this statement makes me wonder whether they also think that disabled people should be dispatched also, as they too have big problems! This does not sit very well with me at all! It is a scheme where Addicts of one form or another are being exploited, and as it is now voluntary (perhaps a way of getting the main population learning to accept it, i.e. kids have been carrying ID cards for years now, so when they are young adults carrying i.d. cards won't be an issue!), is there a future agenda for compulsory sterilization of the society's "misfits, undesirables and people who won't tow the line". What next COMPULSORY STERILIZATION OF EVERYONE IN PRISON? I am appalled and don't want this in the UK, or in the planet for that matter!

Peoples lives and circumstances change daily, who is anyone to tell a VULNERABLE person to make a serious life changing decision for CASH, when "TOMORROW IS A NEW DAY!"

The junkies will go straight to their dealers, so that's where the money will go, why not do away with the cash and just offer the drugs/ alcohol, that way the dealers won't get any money, better still, just give the junkies LETHAL doses of drugs and be done away with them once and for all................ I'm joking, but I'm sure there are people who would agree with the above statement, unfortunately!



Respect

Peace

I'm all for this. If you want to screw up you life with dope, dont bring a baby into the mix. Selfish is one thing, thats another.

Better to not be born at all than with problems? DO YOU want to see a baby that is crack addicted because of a waste of flesh parent? Do you want to see a kid living on the street doing whatever it takes to "make it".

Your bleeding heart is NOT helping these dirtbags. They made a choice. Choices have consequences. They want to do dope? fine. Turn in your parent card on the way out. While the dope head is at it, turn in your health rights too. I shouldnt have to pay for their ailments.

Let'em die.

BTW, My younger sister was hooked on all this crap. She lied, cheated, and stole. I didnt give her a damn bit of sympathy. Choices have consequences.

Oh Boy

Yet another inane american import. Guess what. The poor, the mentally handicaped and those simply down on their luck will get roped in. These people can be rehabilitated.

Everyone deserves a second chance or even a third>

How barbaric.

I'm all for this. If you want to screw up you life with dope, dont bring a baby into the mix. Selfish is one thing, thats another.

Better to not be born at all than with problems? DO YOU want to see a baby that is crack addicted because of a waste of flesh parent? Do you want to see a kid living on the street doing whatever it takes to "make it".

Your bleeding heart is NOT helping these dirtbags. They made a choice. Choices have consequences. They want to do dope? fine. Turn in your parent card on the way out. While the dope head is at it, turn in your health rights too. I shouldnt have to pay for their ailments.

Let'em die.

BTW, My younger sister was hooked on all this crap. She lied, cheated, and stole. I didnt give her a damn bit of sympathy. Choices have consequences.

Yhen you are a vile excuse for a human being. You have failed your own sister. I know if my sister was hooked on drugs, I wouldnt kick her while she was down. People like you make my blood boil, people like you are the reason people turn to drugs in the first place. People like you are the reason this world is so screwed up. Disgusting.

reply to post by Firefly_


Actually you can tell a lot about and civilisation by the manner in which it treats its vulnerable people. I believe that this is a barbaric charity

I'm all for this. If you want to screw up you life with dope, dont bring a baby into the mix. Selfish is one thing, thats another.

Better to not be born at all than with problems? DO YOU want to see a baby that is crack addicted because of a waste of flesh parent? Do you want to see a kid living on the street doing whatever it takes to "make it".

Your bleeding heart is NOT helping these dirtbags. They made a choice. Choices have consequences. They want to do dope? fine. Turn in your parent card on the way out. While the dope head is at it, turn in your health rights too. I shouldnt have to pay for their ailments.

Let'em die.

BTW, My younger sister was hooked on all this crap. She lied, cheated, and stole. I didnt give her a damn bit of sympathy. Choices have consequences.



These "dirtbags" as you call them are still human beings that need help, I am more concerned about real people who are here today than hypothetical babies that have yet to be born! Sort the drug problem out in society, then there would be no need for this shocking "solution"! Your compassion to help others is obviously directed at babies that have yet to be born. My bleeding heart, as you put it, obviously is in the real world, thinking of real people, you probably refer to these unfortunates as "DOGS" too. My sympathies do not extend, sorry, to babies that have yet to be born, THERE IS A LARGER AGENDA GOING ON HERE.


"BTW, My younger sister was hooked on all this crap. She lied, cheated, and stole. I didnt give her a damn bit of sympathy. Choices have consequences. "

If it's your daughter, then she would be giving away the right for you to have grandchildren. That's a whole different social group that are also affected, GRAND PARENTS!

"While the dope head is at it, turn in your health rights too. I shouldnt have to pay for their ailments. "

........and I shouldn't have to pay for a bullsh*it war in Afghanistan, but I got to....get used to it mr. compassionate one!


Peace

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Myrddin Wyllt]

reply to post by Myrddin Wyllt


Hang on a minute, aren't more and more kids now becoming medicated at school, therefore, aren't these kids going to grow into adults that require medication, that means that more drug addicts will enter society who are taking government prescribed drugs, instead of Crack! As far as I'm concerned medicating children in school is pretty shocking............ ahhh I see the agenda now, feed them drugs when their kids, class them as drug dependents (addicts), we can sterilize them automatically when they become adults, let's say 16, yeah that would sort this problem out!

If your rich it seems you can have as many crack addicted babies you want, as long as you continue to pay for their care, and not "BURDEN" the state with them! It's about money again............as everything seems to be today............money!

Peace

reply to post by Myrddin Wyllt


Myrddin Wyllt.....

I am having trouble understanding your posts because you appear not to be using the quotation parentheses when posting the commentary of other members.

In fact, I am confusing youw own commentary with the commentary of other members that appears diametrically opposed to your own.

If you use the quotation parentheses it will be much easier to follow your commentary.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Hi, I think something's up with my web browser possibly, when I put quotations or links in, then i preview my post, the said quotations and links appear and work, yet when I post the link/ quotes, they don't seem to work or appear. This happened to me in another post earlier today also.

I'm using Firefox web browser, if that is of any relevance?

Thanks for your points, I'll try to find out what's going on.....

Peace


[edit on 2-5-2010 by Myrddin Wyllt]

Originally posted by Myrddin Wyllt
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

 

Hi, I think something's up with my web browser possibly, when I put quotations or links in, then i preview my post, the said quotations and links appear and work, yet when I post the link/ quotes, they don't seem to work or appear. This happened to me in another post earlier today also.
I'm using Firefox web browser, if that is of any relevance?
Thanks for your points, I'll try to find out what's going on.....
Peace

Myrddin Wyllt.....

You might find this useful:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Back on topic now.....

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

I am shocked that this has not had more coverage ...

First they came for the drug addicts, but I wasn't a drug addict so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the retarded, but I wasn't retarded so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the lower IQs, but I didn't have a low IQ so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for me, and when they did, there was no-one left to speak up.

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by Firefly_

 

Actually you can tell a lot about and civilisation by the manner in which it treats its vulnerable people. I believe that this is a barbaric charity

that is spot on you only have to look at Bedlam through the ages to see the changes in society (treatment of the mentally vulnerable) some times for the good and some times for the bad... and this step is definatly one of the worse ones

In fact, many of our clients stopped using drugs because they became a parent."

This fact, and the fact that anyone is capable of being a heroine addict makes this policy reprehensible. Not merely morally, but also in any terms of Eugenics (a concept I'm personally open to) since many Heroin addicts, acturally (had) outgoing-adventurous personalities. These are normally good things, for their society, and our national, economy (unless of course they lead you to become, a heroin addict!!!).
But the facts, so many Heroin addicts, seemed more hopeful than average (even if many (more) are "working class") means this policy is actually robbing our nation of good genes (depending of course how well genes and personality are linked.

So I'd say it's truly evil from start to finish (at least in any society that has provisions for child adoption). But as even tribal societies, have adoption, I doubt there's a single people on earth where it can be justified.

I think the people behind this charity are Real Nazies, and so fully deserving of the "respect" that Nazies tend to get!!! They were clearly unlucky not to have been born in 1933, since sure Hitler would have made them, a good father-land?

Maybe the real issue is society and not drugs.

If your life consisted of bad parenting or an abusive child hood, or simply getting in with the wrong group of people (outcasts maybe from the competitive structure of schooling and institution) then maybe these people consider drugs to be an escape from the grim reality that surrounds them.

I agree, it's not pleasant, it's murky, seedy and gritty. It's hostile, desperate and ugly - but ultimately you and I are equally guilty of creating it.

For as long as we live in this pretentious, materialistic and capatilistic society. Then we are all guilty.

I bet all the people who are declaring their semi-nazi hate speeches about drug addicts, are the same curtain-twitchers that are same paranoid breed of people who try and ignore these problems and pretend they don't occur.

Only ever stepping outside to criticise and raise your nose at the people who actually need our help.

Sorry to burst your bubble people, but unless we ALL opt for change, then we will continue to have depression, drugs and despair.