What would an appropriate penalty be for BP's destruction of an entire ecosystem?

Wow, so many of you have these righteous, and over-reactive responses to this spill.

Should BP pay for the spill cleanup? Yes, because they've already said they will as part of their agreement in LEASING the TransOcean rig.

Should they be fined for negligence or some vague kind of intentional harm? Sure, ONLY after the entire event has been investigated and it's been determined that BP employee's was DIRECTLY responsible for the events leading to the rig collapse. Things can fail for a lot of reasons, intentional negligence is just one in thousands of possibilities. That burden may fall on Trans Ocean, BP, maybe Hyundai Heavy Industries if it was a failure that cropped up from something when they constructed it. It could be equipment failure caused by American machinery installed, or electronics from halfway around the world. There will likely not be one single party involved with this catastrophe. It's oh so easy to point the finger at the biggest one though.

Some of your "suggested" fines are beyond ludicrous. "They shouldn't be allowed to make profit for 10 years!" Are you serious? You're an idiot. I'm 100% behind them being investigated and fined as needed, but not only is something that extreme not going to resolve anything, it's going to force a company that employs over 80,000 people to close. That has huge ramifications in and of its self.

"This spill has killed millions of sealife!" Really? Care to name them? Can you even name a dozen of the types of life killed thus far? I'm not saying there isn't an impact. Hell no, I've lived in Alaska 99% of my life, I've seen what an oil spill can do. However the impact people are randomly spouting off have no basis in reality. They are just angry-reactive numbers being plucked from thin air.

I'm sure I'm offending a lot of you and making it seem like I back big oil, but all I'm actually doing is saying before you can establish a fine, or any legal action, you need to know all the facts, and the actual impact. Until you know that, you opinion on it is heavily biased and holds little weight.

reply to post by SlickOil


You got a point there. However their profits won't stop while paying.
They probably make a long term deal out of it keeping oil prices for the public higher for infinity.

Well... they could do that anyway.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Well they would have to get every other oil company to agree and then when they did that would be considered price fixing which would just get them in more trouble.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Hi,

I spent most of my formative years in Cordova, AK. This little town is on Prince William Sound. As you may remember, this is where the Exxon-Valdez ran aground in 1989. Cordova's coasties and fishing fleet provided the initial operations and volunteers to try to contain and clean up the spill.

I have not met a single one of these people who does not suffer from ailments caused by "just some oil" - degenerated spines, blindness, scales on their skin, cancers of all varieties, you name freaky disease, and people from Cordova to Whittier have it growing in 'em.

This is without taking into account the affects on the Sound itself and the wildlife - and thus the livelihood of all the people.

The cleanup itself was toxic and hazardous because of Exxon's playing fast and loose with regulations and people's lives. Quick question, if a company is having people spray crude-covered beaches with pressure washers and chemical solvents, do you think safety gear should be provided? It wasn't - unless you count latex gloves and hard hats.

"Just some oil" destroyed an entire fishery for five years, thereby rendering three towns destitute. This is compounded by the massive medical issues suffered by the people of these towns as a result of the incident, and the expenses of litigation.

That's three towns, three little plane-hopping towns in Alaska. Twenty years later, and the whole area is still trying to recover, and may not succeed - when i left cordova in 2006, the place was steadily falling apart.

This spill isn't in the armpit of Alaska. it's off the coast of one of the most populated areas of the southern US. New orleans, Bilouxi, Mobile, Fairhope, Pensacola.

"Just some oil" is what happens when your car leaks in your driveway.

This is a disaster, and if not contained, can quickly become apocalyptic for the Gulf Coast.

reply to post by UnmitigatedDisaster


I get the irony of your post, UnmitigatedDisaster.

Despite some good points, I think you are underestimating the sheer scale of this disaster. This is not over yet. The oil flow from the leak has not slowed down and the question is, will it ever be stemmed? The leak is at something like 5000ft which, as you may know, not readily reachable. How are they going to do it? Currently it is estimated 2 million gallons are flowing into the Gulf...Per day... It is going to be very, very bad indeed and the impact is going to be much greater and wider than originally anticipated. I can guarantee it.

reply to post by SlickOil


I see your point, but such a deal is made with governments isn't
I don't see any obstacle what can not be avoided if it's a gevernment call.

Time will learn I guess.

As for what BP should pay?

All of it.

Fines and penalties
All expenses of repair and sealing
All expenses for cleaning the mess.
All expenses for environmental restoration
All expenses for damage to Gulf coast industries; fishing, shipping, shrimping, etc
All medical expenses for people involved in the cleanup and others who can prove harm done to them by the spill.

And they should keep paying, until every single one of these costs is made up in full.

Billions and billions and billions. it could take BP under, but that's not a big worry for me; this disaster will take the Gulf Coast under.

BP Steps Up Shoreline Protection Plans on US Gulf Coast

BP has indeed stated they will pay for the dammage.

could they use HAARP to clean the oil splill?

Would a monetary fine actually harm the company ?

They would just put their prices up to cover it and it's us the end users of the products they make that will pay.

Jail terms for those responsible and fired at the very least and or fines against them personally, not the company.







[edit on 2-5-2010 by bigyin]

reply to post by bigyin


Thankfully BP doesn't hold a monopoly. Go to a Chevron station. or exxon, if you prefer the lesser of two evils.

the entire takeover of BP by the citizens of great britiian and america. profits will be used to build wind and solar farms on land and sea, for both the US and the UK. the power will go to lower income households with a graduated subsidy for middle income people. this will free up money that will be spent by these very people in these households to buy goods that they normally would not be able to buy, which in turn would stimulate production of said products, enabling businesses to grow and a create more jobs along with more profits for the shareholders of those companies.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by jimmyx]

reply to post by galloways


Pah

Originally posted by SlickOil
reply to post by galloways

 

Yeah well I was dreaming to think that tight old bat is going to unclinch a dime from her death grip on money.

However, you are saying that the US could send over a company and wreck your environment and the only thing we would be liable for is the value of the company. I might have just found a new way to fight a war if that is the case.

You never quit with your silly childish replys you really are anti british or anti uk what ever you wanna call us typical american all war hungry -

Originally posted by misteRee
reply to post by galloways

 

Pah

i was thinking the same to your reply

I believe the appropriate thing would be for them to foot the entire bill for the cleanup, compensate the fisherman whose livelihood depends on the seasonal fishing, be directly involved with any current and future efforts to correct this catastrophe such as the clean up of the spill, the protection of the animals in harms way, and the continued effort to help get the ecosystem affected by this back to how it should be. No matter how much it costs, no matter how much time it takes.

You make the mess, you clean it up.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

"Just some oil" is what happens when your car leaks in your driveway.

This is a disaster, and if not contained, can quickly become apocalyptic for the Gulf Coast.

It is just an oil spill either.

A spill happens when a definitive amount of oil starts leaking from it's container or a pipe somehow develops a leak but can be stopped easily by using the valves that will "turn off" the flow (I won't even pretend to know the proper technical terms for what I'm saying but you know what I mean).

What we have here is this toxic substance coming from equipment that is tapped directly into a seemingly endless supply of this stuff and no one and nothing, so far, can get down there to stop it. The very idea should make everyone sick with worry if you value nature and the life of animals as well as humans.

No...this isn't an oil spill at all, by any means.

It's still pumping out the oil as we speak and has been for well over a week now. Try to wrap your head around that. Then try to imagine what it means once it all starts coming to shore.

Originally posted by UnmitigatedDisaster


Some of your "suggested" fines are beyond ludicrous. "They shouldn't be allowed to make profit for 10 years!" Are you serious? You're an idiot. I'm 100% behind them being investigated and fined as needed, but not only is something that extreme not going to resolve anything, it's going to force a company that employs over 80,000 people to close. That has huge ramifications in and of its self.

Be careful who you're calling idiot friend.

If a company isn't allowed to make a PROFIT, how will this affect the employees or day to day running of BP? They will operate as normal, pay their salaries, expand and grow, just not be allowed to pay dividends on their shares or have a reserve of billions of dollars, 'people in glass houses shouldn't throw....'

I won't finish it off, I'll let you Google it....

reply to post by kiwifoot


It would be easy to not make a profit on the books so you didnt have to pay any taxes for 10 years. If you know you are going to loose all profits and your shareholders are clear on that as well then you can just invest tons in R&D, buy other companies that have a future but have huge losses, etc..

reply to post by kiwifoot




The problem with placing rules of punishment on the company that it will only effects its workers and customers.

However, I believe some prison time for those responsible is not a bad idea.