Strange dream I had as a kid and something I saw on ATS

When I was younger I was able to have lucid dreams, when I would have a lucid dream it was because I could recognize when I was 'about to fall asleep' and then start imagining whatever I wanted as I fell into the dream world. I guess these were not "fully lucid" dreams because most of the time I could only control myself and I had no idea I was dreaming once fully asleep, but I could with almost 100% reliability choose how my dreams started. If I wanted to dream about flying around the world then my dream would start with my flying around the world, and then as the dream went on I'd forget I was dreaming and crazy stuff would start happening (sometimes nightmares) and it'd be completely out of my control.

I would lay in bed and just imagine whatever as I was going to sleep, it was effortless, and I would actually consciously control it as I drifted off to sleep. Usually the subject of the dream was happy and I didn't 'initiate' the process, I was just so relaxed my imagination would go wild and suddenly my imagination would be way more powerful than normal, as powerful as a dream and I'd be like "woah" and embrace it. I remember this process vividly because it was so awesome. I have been able to do it rarely as an adult, but nowhere near every night (and at some point in my life I apparently just stopped trying, but I don't remember when. )

Now onto the subject matter:
An interesting ATS thread from 2004

I'm not sure how I saw this thread but I think it was actually in the "recent posts" thing just a few minutes ago. I only read page one and two before making this thread.

In that thread I saw this:

I turned off the light and was falling asleep, but I was not quite out yet............
Suddenly the sound of wind rushing filled my ears....like the sound you hear if you stick your head out of a fast moving car...........and I just KNEW this person was IN THE ROOM with me and what was about to happen.....I got SO EXITED I thought it might hinder the prosess, so I was like "calm down, calm down dont be affraid!"

Emphasis in bold mine.

and this:

Upon meditation, you can ask, for help to escape the body at the crucial moment "in between" wakefulness and sleep. Maintain awareness to this moment and allow the body to relax until you do not feel "physical" anymore.

Anyway, many of my lucid dreams were not possibly reality (out of body experience) and even though I had a lot of control, scary # would happen, like giant spiders would start chasing me and I would decide to fly away from them at high speed or to find the same kinds of weapons that my action figures had (which shot lasers or missiles or what have you) and blast them away. I was a kid and I had a similar imagination to most kids I would guess.

But what I noticed should be obvious at this point, I was able to enter the lucid dream state by utilizing the 'in between' of consciousness and unconsciousness, that time period where you are 'drifting off to sleep'. I would recognize it because I would already be imagining things in my head and suddenly I would be able to imagine far more vividly than normal, that was always the signal. Many times the dream would not be lucid, but almost EVERY time I would be able to choose the subject that my dream started out as.

I would even be able to think to myself "I'm about to fall asleep, cool!" without disrupting the process.

So my questions are twofold. One for the skeptics:

Do you think this is what people seeking Out of Body Experiences do, and they just don't realize that they are setting themselves up for the illusion? I am assuming you guys at least believe that some of the people who claim to have this ability really believe that they have it? Would this be a reasonable explanation as to why they might think that? I was able to do just about anything I could imagine with this sort of thing, and in fact even dreamed something close to an 'out of body experience' after one of my dogs that grew up with me from birth until she died, I played fetch with her ghost (her favorite thing to do) in my front yard with a frisbee.

That one didn't feel intentional or like I made it happen but it did start when I was in the 'in between' state. I was VERY upset when she died and VERY angry at my parents for putting her to sleep, this dream really helped me cope. I do not really trust my memory of it, I am tempted to believe it was a real experience though (and did as a child, I absolutely believed it was 100% real after it was over, but obviously I had strong bias to do so since it helped me cope).

To those who do believe in Out of Body Experiences, is it possible that that was one of them or are they different things entirely? Is it possible to have an out of body experience and see your dog that died a few nights before, but not intentionally? Can involuntary OOBE occur? Keep in mind that while I say 'involuntary' I was not AGAINST it occurring and was very happy to see the 'ghost' of my dog and to play with her for what seemed like a whole day from what I remember right now writing this. It was definitely a helpful dream as far as coping with death went but I am very skeptical of supernatural ideas and have mostly concluded that it was just my brains way of helping me cope because I was so incredibly distraught. It wasn't even my first experience with death (a friend of mine had died of Cystic Fibrosis not too long before that, this probably catapulted why I was so emotional since it seemed like everyone I loved was dying at the time).

I'm very curious of the thoughts of both skeptics of Out of Body Experience and Believers.

Also, for reference to my believing playing fetch with my dog was true.

At age three or four I challenged my parents on the existence of the easter bunny on the way to church on the way to easter mass (catholic) and they didn't lie to me since I had outright questioned it. I was a little skeptic even as a child, I didn't believe in god even though it was my parents religion and since the easter bunny was fake I knew santa was too, etc.

So I wasn't used to believing in supernatural things or anything like that, in fact getting me to go to church and bible study generally led to an argument of "why do i have to go i don't believe in god?" Etc.

Originally posted by sremmos
.Many times the dream would not be lucid, but almost EVERY time I would be able to choose the subject that my dream started out as.

Dreams are a direct reflection of what you have your attention focused on. Whether that attention is focused on random thoughts or hypnogogic imagery, the dream will form around the last thing you were focused on. But sometime sleep comes on very suddenly, and the last thing a person was aware of was being in bed. So obviously the dream forms around that.

But I think the thing that confuses most people into thinking they've had an OBE is the acquisition of the dream body. True dreaming begins the moment you have a dream body. During the hypnogogic stage, you have no body, and are just an observer. The transition moment between hypnogogic hallucinations and true dreaming is that key moment when you acquire your dream body.

If you the last thing you were aware of was being in your room, and you suddenly fall asleep, then the additional dream body does feel like you are leaving your body. But it's just a dream, based on the last thing the person was aware of at the time.

I've felt myself "leaving my body" on many occasions. Sometimes quite suddenly, other times more gradually, first with the appearance of phantom limbs. The OBE lore does offer good advice on how to roll or rock out of your body when you begin to feel phantom limbs, but it's still just a dream.

reply to post by sremmos


Dreams can be really wild. I don't know a lot about lucid dreaming but I can appreciate any interaction between the waking world and the dream world.

I had just come off a 2 day 28 hour work shift while being awake for 36 hours. I fell asleep very quickly and was sleeping like a log. My sister-in-law came by with the kids and because I made the mistake of leaving my bedroom door open they came running into my room to see me. I could hear them, I could see them, but I could not for the life of me move an inch of my body. I tried to talk. I fought like crazy to just move my hand but I couldn't. I knew I was just asleep and I kept screaming at myself to wake up. WAKE UP! When the children realized I was asleep and not going to get up. I could hear them tell their mother that I was sleeping. She said that they could come back later and play Nintendo with me. I heard them leave and gave up the fight of trying to wake up.

When I got up and went into the kitchen, there was a note from my sister-in-law saying the kids had wanted to come by to play Nintendo and she thought that I was off today and it would be a surprise. Told me to call when I wanted her to bring the kids back for the Guitar Hero play off.

It was the wildest most frustrating feeling that I have had in a long time. I knew I was sleeping, yet a part of me was very awake but I had absolutely no control over my body, just of my mind.

I don't think this falls into the category of sleep paralysis. Just extreme. fatigue.

@The Cusp:

Do dreams only occur during REM sleep? As a kid is it easier to go into REM sleep immediately? What you are saying makes a lot of sense and tends to be in line with what I remember but I am unsure how I was able to go into REM sleep immediately (if REM is required for dreams) since from what I understand it is a mid way sleep stage that you incline into.

I honestly don't remember if I had a "dream body" or not but I will tell you that I am capable of (at this very moment) imagining myself walking around my room with a 'body', what I either can't do or just haven't tried hard enough to do is imagine myself walking around my room and touching things and 'feeling' it, which would definitely be different from a dream. Perhaps that is what you mean though, the feeling of complete disassociation from the real body, could you clarify? My imagination is certainly strong enough for me to envision myself walking around with a body, I could even imagine looking down and seeing my chest and arms and legs, and I am certainly still conscious.

What I assume you mean is you have changed states once you no longer have to actively work your imagination? I've never done serious meditation so I can't dispute your claim there and from my experience I would tend to agree with it. Once you are completely disassociated from your real body you are dreaming. When I would go into a lucid dream I would quickly 'forget' that I was previously going to bed (and therefore lose the knowledge that I was dreaming) at about the same pace that if I don't think about a dream when I wake up, I forget the dream.

That's certainly an interesting effect to me since it's so similar to waking up and forgetting your dream (though I usually don't forget that I had the dream, or if I do I wouldn't know it, lol).

@NightSkyeB4Dawn

That sounds like a really interesting experience frustrating as it must have been, I'd like to have an experience like that at least once in my life because it sounds so outrageous to me to be conscious but unable to move at all. It's too bad you didn't get to play Nintendo with your family but it was clear you needed the sleep so your body must have just been like "nope, not letting you get up!" Haha.

reply to post by sremmos


Thank you for bringing the thread you gave to my attention.

I have for years and years been wondering what the HEY!!! I have been experiencing.
The way it was described was like a light bulb for me.
The only issue is that whenever I experienced this, as I did not know what was occurring, I tried to get away from it. Terrified beyond belief of what was happening to me and the sounds and feelings I was getting.
I had the same feelings and more note worthy, what scared me into wanting out, was that feeling of someone else in the room! This affected me so much due to having experienced many times a being at the end of my bed, very dark but unmoving, so this, again, didn't help the situation at all, especially with regards to encouragement of exploring what was going on
Thank you again xxx

reply to post by The_Seeker


That does sound very frightening and I'm glad that my thread in some way helped you come a realization. Always believe in yourself and never assume that that dark figure at the end of your bed is more dangerous than you are.

Always remember the story of the Wizard of Oz, who was incredibly frightening behind the curtain with a great voice but he was really just a weak little man.

Things that are really dangerous don't have to "scare" you at all, if something were so much more powerful than you that it could subdue you or kill or harm you without any risk then it would have no reason to scare you.

If something or someone tries to scare you that means that it sees you as a potential threat which means you do have the ability to resist against it.

Shakespeare said it best through Lucio to Isabella (and he was not being sarcastic):
LUCIO:
Our doubts are traitors,
And make us lose the good we oft might win
By fearing to attempt.

(Measure for Measure Act 1 Scene 4)

Originally posted by sremmos
Do dreams only occur during REM sleep?

No, dreams are not limited to the REM stage. That's just a dated misconception from back in the days when scientists could only be sure people were dreaming by watching their eyes move.

REM dreams tend to be more exciting, more intense, action based. Non-REM dreams tend to be dull, boring, uneventful, and emotionally bland.

Originally posted by sremmos
I honestly don't remember if I had a "dream body" or not but I will tell you that I am capable of (at this very moment) imagining myself walking around my room with a 'body', what I either can't do or just haven't tried hard enough to do is imagine myself walking around my room and touching things and 'feeling' it, which would definitely be different from a dream. Perhaps that is what you mean though, the feeling of complete disassociation from the real body, could you clarify? My imagination is certainly strong enough for me to envision myself walking around with a body, I could even imagine looking down and seeing my chest and arms and legs, and I am certainly still conscious.

It's rare enough to be aware of your dream body at the same time as your real body. Like you mentioned, there is usually a period of disassociation from you physical body during the hypnogogic state before the dream body makes an appearance. It's a pretty subtle transition, most times you won't notice it unless you're still aware of you physical body, or purposely trying to manifest your dream body to speed up your entry into full fledged dreaming.

Have you ever been in bed and become aware of your hand tucked under your cheek, only to realize that your real arm is actually down by your waist? You can move that phantom limb around while still being aware of your real one. It actually pretty easy to consciously make this happen. The arms and legs are the easiest to "shake loose". But I find it very hard to to separate my dream body's head and torso from my real one. Swinging your phantom limbs and rolling out of your body can work though.

Originally posted by sremmos
What I assume you mean is you have changed states once you no longer have to actively work your imagination?Once you are completely disassociated from your real body you are dreaming.

Yes, that's one way of putting it. But to get technical on you that preliminary state is not usually a full fledged dream. It's what is know as Hypnogogic Imagery or hallucinations, the stage in between waking and sleep. Full dreaming doesn't occur until the moment you acquire your dream body.

Originally posted by The_Seeker
The only issue is that whenever I experienced this, as I did not know what was occurring, I tried to get away from it. Terrified beyond belief of what was happening to me and the sounds and feelings I was getting.
I had the same feelings and more note worthy, what scared me into wanting out, was that feeling of someone else in the room! This affected me so much due to having experienced many times a being at the end of my bed, very dark but unmoving, so this, again, didn't help the situation at all, especially with regards to encouragement of exploring what was going on

It's interesting to note that the description of the varied hallucinations experienced in the hypnogogic state between waking and sleep are identical to those experienced by schizophrenics in every way. Not saying you're schizo, but that everyone experiences what it's like to be schizophrenic on the edge of sleep.

And of course the feeling that someone is there with you is pretty common to schizophrenics. Personally I think schizophrenia is directly related the hypnogogic state, those people just get stuck in that twilight zone between waking and sleeping.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by The Cusp]