Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

reply to post by seabhac-rua

Why would you be geting angry my freind, I am not one of theses people who just beleive such unfounded conspiracys as you are stateing. I only look for facts an trust nothing less as do you i would guess. I im not one who is usally inclined to post responses to arguments with no purpose. It is not practical to the task i have in hand and the task that so little few contribute to. Some get heated an i have seen it many times they think there op is soley wright because of one side possessing a inflated iq ego were they think they hold all the facts but so do the other side hold facts an if you cant debate an you get so angerd then you lose sight and are hindering your self from learning an seeing truth i am not a crazy or any other thing you might respond with just a man who thinks what this kid is doing has truth to it and i am not advocating any reason on why they faked it that is a diffrent thread and i would contrabute to that but i still remain undecided so please people dont get lost in stupid arguments or ever asume you are write once quoted by Einstein (Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge in the field of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.) i think it fiting here

Well looks like our beloved NASA is trying to hide it's little secret here.




NASA's attempt at hiding it's secret?


what do you say?

According to the Toledo Blade July 19, 1969:

news.google.com...,4863591&dq=moon+rocks&hl=en

The Apollo 11 launch was attended by, get this, 500 special guests, including ex-pres LBJ and sitting VP Agnew; 69 foreign ambassadors, 40 mayors, 19 governors, 275 US business leaders. Wow, that's a lot of VIP's. But...

Hey, wait a minute! Somebody seems to be missing. The President! Apparently, Nixon had a germ.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/252bac34c3d6.jpg[/atsimg]

So history shows that the astros enjoyed a nice VIP dinner party attended by a cornucopia of potential germ carriers one night before the launch. But NIXON has a germ and cannot even make it to Florida or Texas for the launch.

What was Nixon doing? Does anybody know?

reply to post by vikki_nnd


Could be as a veiled threat from the DoD: "Don't get too close to our Moon or we will shoot you down with our space lazers."

reply to post by FoosM


Foos, i answered your questions, so at least have the decency to answer mine. Its only fair.

Why is your default position that the higher-res photos are fake?
What evidence would you require to accept that the moon landings were real?

PS: you arent a skeptic, a skeptic doesnt dismiss new data without at least a reasonable basis or some cursory investigation. A skeptic certainly wouldnt wave the new higher-res images away without a second thought.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter

So history shows that the astros enjoyed a nice VIP dinner party attended by a cornucopia of potential germ carriers one night before the launch. But NIXON has a germ and cannot even make it to Florida or Texas for the launch.

What was Nixon doing? Does anybody know?

edit on 9/9/2011 by SayonaraJupiter because: (no reason given)

What!? Is that right? I thought they had to be quarantined before launch?
Again, what did they eat? Anything they wanted to?

reply to post by FoosM


I don't know! I'm not an Apollogist! I was just checking on some of those newspapers you posted and got way off track. But here's something cool for the Apollo history buffs. Some info about that Westinghouse camera that cost US $250,000.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/051de2df7fa6.jpg[/atsimg]

anybody know how to make a scroll bar for large size pic?


Found the quarantine here www.boeing.com...

And the breakfast : 4:15 a.m., Apollo 11 astronauts Neil Armstrong, Michael Collins, and Edwin E. (Buzz) Aldrin, Jr., are awakened. After a breakfast of orange juice, steak, scrambled eggs, toast and coffee, they begin suiting up. At 6:27 a.m., they leave in an air-conditioned van for the launch pad eight miles away.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter

Found the quarantine here www.boeing.com...

"One thing we have not simulated that will probably be a problem is the traffic pattern," said Dr. Kurt Debus, Kennedy Space Center director and boss of the 22,000-man launch team.

After a rigorous training schedule, the astronauts held a unique televised press conference while in quarantine at KSC, some 15 miles away from their questioners. "We're willing and ready to achieve our national goal," Apollo 11 commander Neil Armstrong told the press. When asked if they were afraid, there was a long pause while each waited for the other to answer. Armstrong finally said, "I wouldn't say fear is an unknown emotion to us. There is knowledge that there may be something you haven't thought of...or can't cope with. But as a crew ... we have no fear of launching out on this expedition," he said. Buzz Aldrin added, "Anticipation characterizes my feelings." Mike Collins complained: "I have no TV (in the mother ship) ... I'm one of the few Americans who won't be able to see the EVA (moonwalk)."

Yet the CM did get and relay the tv signals on the ground right?

And what kind of quarantine was that, then?

Originally posted by zvezdar
reply to post by FoosM

 

Foos, i answered your questions, so at least have the decency to answer mine. Its only fair.

Why is your default position that the higher-res photos are fake?
What evidence would you require to accept that the moon landings were real?

Ill know it when I see it, but till then, this is as good as a start as any:

You Go Girl!

Apollo 11 Feat Called Hoax

link

reply to post by FoosM

How am I going to find a dutch newspaper from 1969?

If Kaysing were telling the truth, he would have been able to produce it for you. After all, as a skeptic, you realize that the onus of proving a claim falls on the one making it, right? This Dutch newspaper article should be one of the sacred texts of the Moon Hoax movement. If this movement were really growing as quickly as aWe seems to think it is, certainly a Dutch believer would have found it by now. This suggests either that there are few Dutch Moon Hoaxers or that Kaysing's claim was false. Either way, as a skeptic, you must assume that this statement is a lie. After all, you assume that unless NASA can provide independent confirmation, everything it says is a lie.

And no, it doesn't mean its a lie.

Really? I thought you were a skeptic. Let's review Kaysing's claims again:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

First, he claims to have talked to many experts who doubt the Moon landing. This is the word of one man. You insist that, as a skeptic, you cannot trust the testimony of the astronauts because there is no independent verification of their story. Where is the independent verification of Kaysing's story? Are there transcripts of these conversations? Tape recordings? Has anyone come forward to verify that they spoke to him? They could do so anonymously, so there is no need to fabricate an excuse. Since there is no independent verification of Kaysings claim, you need to treat it exactly the same as you do the astronauts'. If you think the astronauts are lying, you must think Bill Kaysing was lying... but wait! The astronauts' testimony is backed up by millions of witnesses! How many people witnessed Kaysing talking to experts who doubt the landings?

He claims that the Russians never intended to land men on the Moon. How does he know this? Why did he state this as fact? We now know for a fact, based on Russian documents recently made public, that the Soviets were working very hard at landing men on the Moon. He did not say "In my opinion..." or "The Russians probably..." Stating an opinion as fact is intellectually dishonest; what's worse, he used his opinion as though it were evidence! As a skeptic, how would you evaluate Kaysing's honesty? Does a skeptic accept stating an opinion as fact?

He claims he knows someone at Goldstone who thinks the landings were a hoax. As a skeptic, I assume you require independent confirmation of this claim or you assume it is a lie. The same goes for the "Seattle geologist" and all the other alleged experts.

He claims that Christa McAuliffe was murdered because she refused to lie about seeing stars in space. What is his source for this information? It is extremely specific. He did not say "It is possible she posed a risk of some kind...." No, he specifically said that she refused to say that you couldn't see stars. Was he present at that conversation? Are there other witnesses? Why does he state this as fact, rather than speculation? As a skeptic, how do you feel about people stating speculation as fact? I call it "intellectual dishonesty." What do you call it?

He claims that one of his friends went to the Smithsonian and measured the hatch on the LM. Really? How? Did he hop over the rail, climb the ladder and measure it with a tape measure as the guards smiled benignly on? Really? You believe that? Where is your independent verification for that story? You would think it would merit at least a small item in the Washington Post: "Man Arrested At Smithsonian." As a skeptic, you must agree that this story is, at best, "fishy." Not that it matters, because you yourself have posted photos showing Aldrin in the hatch. You busted Kaysing, good work!

Then there is the KOME napalm incident. KOME was one of the most popular radio stations in one of the most populous areas of the country in those days. Surely you can find one witness who can confirm Kaysing's story that it was off the air for three days. As a skeptic, I'm inclined to believe he was lying until someone can prove otherwise. As a skeptic, where do you stand?

Quarantine

Quarantine as usual

The seven members of Atlantis's STS-125 crew are due to enter quarantine in less than a week to avoid catching any kind of sickness before their flight. This precaution is taken just before every mission, since the consequences of an astronaut getting sick are serious.

"Even a common cold can have a mission impact if a crewmember is not able to clear their ears due to congestion, especially with the changes in pressure that are required for a spacewalk," Jeffs told SPACE.com.

Astronauts usually undergo a physical exam called the "L-10" 10 days before launch. This exam includes swabs and other lab tests to make sure they're not already infected. After this time, NASA limits astronaut contact with other people, and formal quarantine starts at about seven days before launch.

Once the crew arrives at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral, Fla., where shuttles lift off, the quarantine is strict, and the crew surgeon is isolated with the crew. The astronauts undergo a second exam two days prior to launch, and are given a brief medical check just before they suit up on launch day. Anyone on the ground who is sick or exhibits any signs of illness is prohibited from working with the crew.

Not foolproof

Even with such vigilance, astronauts have gotten sick during past missions. Wally Schirra came down with a cold in the middle of the 1968 Apollo 7 mission. Though nothing too serious resulted, Schirra did reportedly get irritable with Mission Control's requests and felt tired during the mission.

During 1968's Apollo 8 — the first manned mission to fly around the moon — astronaut Frank Borman suffered what may have been a bad reaction to a sleeping tablet. He discovered that vomit and diarrhea are not easy to clean up in the weightlessness of space.

In retrospect, some experts think Borman simply had space adaptation syndrome, or space sickness, which affects about a third of astronauts as their bodies try to adjust to microgravity.

www.space.com...

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

What was Nixon doing? Does anybody know?

Kicking back watching movies of the Gulf of Tonkin incident! (BTW, the article does not mention that the astronauts were present at the VIP dinner.)

reply to post by FoosM


thats not an answer, its a link to someone elses work. And you didnt answer why your default position is that the pictures are fake.

So i'll try again:

Why is your default position that the higher-res images are fake?
What evidence do YOU require (not someone else) for you to believe that the landings actually happened.

Saying that you'll know it when you see it isnt an answer, its just another way of dodging the question.

Originally posted by zvezdar
reply to post by FoosM

 

thats not an answer, its a link to someone elses work. And you didnt answer why your default position is that the pictures are fake.

So i'll try again:

Why is your default position that the higher-res images are fake?

Because I dont believe USA landed men on the moon during the Apollo program.
I dont understand how you dont get that.
You believe in the photos because you believe they landed men on the moon.
Yet, you yourself cant say that the photos are not fake-able.
They offer nothing new to the older photos or film footage from Apollo.
Well then thats not conclusive proof is it?
I've repeated this countless times in the thread.
Answered similar question many times. Look it up.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM

 

How am I going to find a dutch newspaper from 1969?

If Kaysing were telling the truth, he would have been able to produce it for you. After all, as a skeptic, you realize that the onus of proving a claim falls on the one making it, right? This Dutch newspaper article should be one of the sacred texts of the Moon Hoax movement. If this movement were really growing as quickly as aWe seems to think it is, certainly a Dutch believer would have found it by now. This suggests either that there are few Dutch Moon Hoaxers or that Kaysing's claim was false. Either way, as a skeptic, you must assume that this statement is a lie. After all, you assume that unless NASA can provide independent confirmation, everything it says is a lie.

And no, it doesn't mean its a lie.

Really? I thought you were a skeptic. Let's review Kaysing's claims again:

You are being disingenuous DJ.
This is why I cant take you seriously.
I already wrote in my response

Doesn't help his argument,

But you call the man a liar, and I asked what he lied about.
You haven't shown him to be any more of a liar than the average person.
Now if you said that he didn't back up some of his claims with witnesses and experts, I would agree with you.
But you had to go and call the man a LIAR. Thats a strong accusation to use willy nilly.
I hate that sort of crap.

Conclusive proof for me would be a multi-year, multi-rover project that visits upon all the Apollo artifacts, including Soviet landers, rovers and crash sites. If NASA can do 2 rovers on Mars for 6 or 7 years then the proof of concept is there for a lunar rover project with say, 4 little robots.

But we know how much NASA (& the DoD probably) likes to crash stuff on the moon... I'm looking at you GRAIL :LOL:

reply to post by FoosM

But you call the man a liar, and I asked what he lied about.
You haven't shown him to be any more of a liar than the average person.
Now if you said that he didn't back up some of his claims with witnesses and experts, I would agree with you.
But you had to go and call the man a LIAR. Thats a strong accusation to use willy nilly.
I hate that sort of crap.

And yet you accuse NASA of lying in every post. You accuse the astronauts of lying. You accuse the Russians of lying. You accuse JAXA of lying. I guess you consider lying to be normal

Now consider this: Kaysing admits that he worked for Raytheon! Raytheon has been accused of war crimes! Kaysing confessed to working with war criminals.

www.indymedia.ie...

Originally posted by WWu777


Hi all,
You won't believe this. This is no joke. I'm speechless as I write this.

The whole Moon Hoax Debate, which I thought had died off long ago, has been revived by this young genius from Australia who has been kicking butt against astronomers appointed by NASA to debate the moon hoaxers such as Phil Plait of www.badastronomy.com, Jay Windley, the Mythbusters program, and other "NASA Propagandists" as he calls them.

This kid is something you have to see to believe. He calls himself Jarrah White. He looks only about 25 or so, yet he's the best debater I've ever seen. His arguments and reasoning are so thorough and scholarly. Everything he says is sourced and documented. He has documents on everything, even stuff from the 60's. He even performs scientific experiments, when he can, to back up and illustrate his argument, showing and explaining each step to the viewer. Therefore, he doesn't just make arguments, he SHOWS you the scientific facts and results through experiments right in front of you, either by him, or by others.

In doing so, he has unmasked critical errors and omissions of Phil Plait, the Mythbusters, and others. It's absolutely brilliant. I'm astounded by it. I've never seen a young guy who was so thorough and logical. His videos all look very professionally produced and his presentation is very professional as well. It's something you have to see to believe.

Here is his YouTube Channel. He has like over 300 videos now. His video series is called MoonFaker.

www.youtube.com...

Check out this 3 part segment where he shows an untouched flag waving on the moon, where there is no air. Then he cites the Lunar Journal's 6 speculative explanations for the moving flag and debunks them all, with simple experiments, precendents and deduction.

MoonFaker: The Flags are Alive
www.youtube.com...

And here he shows you EXACTLY WHY the Lunar Module on the moon must have had a blast crater under it, contrary to NASA defenders' explanations to the contrary. All the math, science and documented experiments by NASA and other organizations is shown to you in full detail, in a five part video series.

MoonFaker - No Crater
www.youtube.com...

In this one, he gets to the bottom of the debate about whether the "C" rock in a moon photo right next to the "C" on the ground, is an original or the same photo with the "C" airbrushed out is, and whether it is a piece of hair or a marker. By simple research and deduction, Jarrah White shows that the NASA defenders are wrong and supporting an obvious cover up.

MoonFaker - Rocks and Crocks
www.youtube.com...

In this funny one, he explains how in theory the astronauts should have been able to jump 14 feet in the air, according to NASA's calculations, yet the Apollo astronauts usually only jumped 20 inches off the ground, and why NASA's defenders' explanations for this do not fit.

MoonFaker - One Giant Leap
www.youtube.com...

Here's another thoroughly researched one. Here he takes some famous photographs with lighting oddities and performs tedious experiments to see if NASA defenders' explanations hold up. In it, he even exposes deceit and factual errors by the Mythbusters program.

MoonFaker - Reflect on this
www.youtube.com...

There's more at his channel, including many videos dissecting and scrutinizing the recent LRO aerial photos of the moon, which seem to be far less accurate than even Google Earth is.

LRO Series
www.youtube.com...

The only folks who won't like these videos are the establishment defenders who mistakenly believe that "authority = truth" and worship "status quo and orthodoxy" as their Lord and God, and believe that "critical thinking" can never be used against establishment or orthodoxy, only against those who would challenge it.

Remember folks, a true skeptic is willing to challenge authority and orthodoxy, and apply his critical thinking and skepticism in that direction. Those who absolutely cannot are not skeptics, they are establishment defenders. Randi, Shermer, CSICOP, the BadAstronomy.com folks, the Mythbusters, Penn and Teller, and the skeptics on my SCEPCOP forum are establishment defenders, not true skeptics.

These establishment defenders were taught in high school that "authority = truth" and therefore is never to be questioned, and that doing and believing what you're told leads to reward, while the opposite leads to punishment. They are unable to free themselves of their programming and conditioning, so in that sense, they are not "freethinkers".

Here is the Flag Waving Section :

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM

 

But you call the man a liar, and I asked what he lied about.
You haven't shown him to be any more of a liar than the average person.
Now if you said that he didn't back up some of his claims with witnesses and experts, I would agree with you.
But you had to go and call the man a LIAR. Thats a strong accusation to use willy nilly.
I hate that sort of crap.

And yet you accuse NASA of lying in every post. You accuse the astronauts of lying. You accuse the Russians of lying. You accuse JAXA of lying. I guess you consider lying to be normal

Now consider this: Kaysing admits that he worked for Raytheon! Raytheon has been accused of war crimes! Kaysing confessed to working with war criminals.

www.indymedia.ie...

edit on 9-9-2011 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)

Others on this thread have not only accused NASA and the Apollo astronauts of lying they have accused NASA of murder. Calling Kaysing a liar is unacceptable to you Foosm, but accusations of murder don't seem to bother you?