Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by Tomblvd

Originally posted by FoosM

what a joke


www.newscientist.com...

And speaking of jokes, Foos has YET AGAIN found a source that contradicts him!

An example from the same article he quotes:

NASA has long recognised that protons and other particles spewed out by solar flares pose a threat to astronaut safety, but particles are relatively easy to block with layers of polyethylene.

So all that screaming about the VABs is thrown out the window (heh) with one sentence.

Yeah because they had that option for Apollo right? Why didn't I see that before

The team is examining new shielding materials that not only block and/or fragment more radiation than aluminum -- the material currently used to build most spacecraft structures -- but also are lighter than aluminum. Spacecraft designers have to be able to shape shielding materials to make various parts of the spacecraft. The material must protect the crew from radiation, and it must also deflect dangerous micrometeoroids. The shielding must be durable and long lasting -- able to stand up to the harsh space environment.

Polyethylene is a good shielding material because it has high hydrogen content, and hydrogen atoms are good at absorbing and dispersing radiation. In fact, researchers have been studying the use of polyethylene as a shielding material for some time

Nice job Foos.

Thanks!

And yet again you ignore the fact that your article is discussing something totally different from what you say. It is only discussing the danger to an unshieded astronaut, not one inside the protection of a spacecraft.

Why do you keep lying?

Originally posted by Tomblvd

Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by Tomblvd

Originally posted by FoosM

what a joke


www.newscientist.com...

And speaking of jokes, Foos has YET AGAIN found a source that contradicts him!

An example from the same article he quotes:

NASA has long recognised that protons and other particles spewed out by solar flares pose a threat to astronaut safety, but particles are relatively easy to block with layers of polyethylene.

So all that screaming about the VABs is thrown out the window (heh) with one sentence.

Yeah because they had that option for Apollo right? Why didn't I see that before

The team is examining new shielding materials that not only block and/or fragment more radiation than aluminum -- the material currently used to build most spacecraft structures -- but also are lighter than aluminum. Spacecraft designers have to be able to shape shielding materials to make various parts of the spacecraft. The material must protect the crew from radiation, and it must also deflect dangerous micrometeoroids. The shielding must be durable and long lasting -- able to stand up to the harsh space environment.

Polyethylene is a good shielding material because it has high hydrogen content, and hydrogen atoms are good at absorbing and dispersing radiation. In fact, researchers have been studying the use of polyethylene as a shielding material for some time

Nice job Foos.

Thanks!

And yet again you ignore the fact that your article is discussing something totally different from what you say. It is only discussing the danger to an unshieded astronaut, not one inside the protection of a spacecraft.

Why do you keep lying?

you make no sense Tom.

You brought up Polyethylene as shielding for spacecraft
And the article is discussing using Polyethylene as an alternative to Aluminum shielding for said spacecraft.



I suspect this is one of those techniques to move the thread from serious questions that have been brought to the table. But dont worry, we'll make summaries

reply to post by FoosM

I cant believe out of all the things that have been posted, you find this question to be pertinent or relevant for this thread. If you don't think these things are huge, well NASA has sure done a good number on you.

Fear mongering idiots like Jarrah White seem to have done a better number on you. Your terrifying Van Allen Belts only extend 1/6th of the way to the Moon. The Moon is just four days away. Practically our backyard. The sources you have been selectively, yet oddly blindly, quoting are from people concerned with planning for a mission to Mars. A trip to Mars can take, let's call it, 200 days for the outward leg of the journey alone. That's 50 times longer than a trip to the Moon. Your Van Allen Belts now become 1/300th of a danger. These people don't even worry about the Van Allen Belts any more. They worry about long term exposure to the space environment. Not days in the solar wind, months.

Here's the analogy: The Moon is in our backyard. To get there, you have to climb over a little chain link fence: the Van Allen Belts. To a small child, that fence looks formidable. It's hard to climb and you can cut yourself or even fall and get hurt. I gather you side with the child who considers prudence the better part of valor. That fence just plain scares you. Meanwhile, your older siblings have climbed over that fence several times and are setting their eyes on a new challenge. They're going to leave the backyard altogether. They're going to explore the whole neighborhood, maybe even go downtown! They're not worried about that fence anymore, they're worried about alleys strewn with broken glass with muggers waiting at the end. Much, much taller fences with barbed wire at the top, like Jupiter's. Random drive-by shootings by galactic cosmic rays. Yes, lots of new problems to solve. None of them have anything to do with that scary fence in the backyard. Get over it. And find sources that are relevant to the subject: playing in the backyard.

Originally posted by FoosM

you make no sense Tom.

You brought up Polyethylene as shielding for spacecraft
And the article is discussing using Polyethylene as an alternative to Aluminum shielding for said spacecraft.

I suspect this is one of those techniques to move the thread from serious questions that have been brought to the table. But dont worry, we'll make summaries

No Foos, you are the one that is trying to "move the thread". Why else would you post an article about future bases on the moon, when we are discussing Apollo?

We are discussing short term radiation exposure, you are trying to change the subject to long term exposure.

Those are two completely different issues.

Originally posted by Tomblvd

Originally posted by FoosM

you make no sense Tom.

You brought up Polyethylene as shielding for spacecraft
And the article is discussing using Polyethylene as an alternative to Aluminum shielding for said spacecraft.

I suspect this is one of those techniques to move the thread from serious questions that have been brought to the table. But dont worry, we'll make summaries

No Foos, you are the one that is trying to "move the thread". Why else would you post an article about future bases on the moon, when we are discussing Apollo?

We are discussing short term radiation exposure, you are trying to change the subject to long term exposure.

Those are two completely different issues.

Future bases



X-rays ARE short term, how many times must that be stated?
You think they didnt have major X-ray flares prior to the 21st century?
And If you want discuss amongst yourself certain topics, by all means do so, I dont have to partake, I can freely move on to new topics as I please.
What are you, the thread cop?

reply to post by FoosM

A 20% chance of dangerous xray exposure for 100 hours of EVA activity. That is not a very high probability.

The calculations used 0.1 Gray as a harmful level.

28 years ago I received 150 rads (1.5 Gray) of xrays on a daily basis (well, weekdays) for 6 weeks straight. A total of 45 Gray (4,500 rem). (Yes, my more vital organs were protected, somewhat).

Yes, in the long term that 20% chance might prove to be a problem. The Apollo astronauts were at a very low risk level.


[edit on 8/18/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM

 

I cant believe out of all the things that have been posted, you find this question to be pertinent or relevant for this thread. If you don't think these things are huge, well NASA has sure done a good number on you.

Fear mongering idiots like Jarrah White seem to have done a better number on you. Your terrifying Van Allen Belts only extend 1/6th of the way to the Moon. The Moon is just four days away. Practically our backyard. The sources you have been selectively, yet oddly blindly, quoting are from people concerned with planning for a mission to Mars. A trip to Mars can take, let's call it, 200 days for the outward leg of the journey alone. That's 50 times longer than a trip to the Moon. Your Van Allen Belts now become 1/300th of a danger. These people don't even worry about the Van Allen Belts any more. They worry about long term exposure to the space environment. Not days in the solar wind, months.

Here's the analogy: The Moon is in our backyard. To get there, you have to climb over a little chain link fence: the Van Allen Belts. To a small child, that fence looks formidable. It's hard to climb and you can cut yourself or even fall and get hurt. I gather you side with the child who considers prudence the better part of valor. That fence just plain scares you. Meanwhile, your older siblings have climbed over that fence several times and are setting their eyes on a new challenge. They're going to leave the backyard altogether. They're going to explore the whole neighborhood, maybe even go downtown! They're not worried about that fence anymore, they're worried about alleys strewn with broken glass with muggers waiting at the end. Much, much taller fences with barbed wire at the top, like Jupiter's. Random drive-by shootings by galactic cosmic rays. Yes, lots of new problems to solve. None of them have anything to do with that scary fence in the backyard. Get over it. And find sources that are relevant to the subject: playing in the backyard.

A better analogy:
The Van Allen belts is an electrified fence... of 10 million volts.
And the moon is ball that went over the fence and landed just six feet away. Solar flares are the three dobermans roaming around guarding the premises. An American kid wants to get to it, but doesn't think its worth risking his life for it.

Other kids who were playing, one Chinese and one Russian are also just standing there looking at the ball wondering how they are going to get it. The three kids occasionally throw rocks to see if they can hit it. Some do, some miss.

The American kid imagines himself climbing really fast over the electric fence, getting the ball before the dobermans appear. He tells this fantasy to the others that nine times he has been able to do so in the past.

One of the kids, the poor Russian, says he believes him, but thats because he wants to eat hamburger at the American kid's house. The Chinese kid rolls his eyes and says, yeah right. The three kids stare at the ball, wondering how they are going to get it.


the end.

Originally posted by FoosM

Future bases

Yes future bases. You know, bases that are being planned for the future.

Future lunar astronauts could be harmed by X-ray outbursts from the Sun that occur without warning and can deliver dangerous doses of radiation in just a few minutes, a new study says.

You see, you seem to miss the fact, even as it has been pointed out numerous times, that the article you posted is about future missions, not Apollo.

Are these a form of debate? Do you think it makes some sort of point?

X-rays ARE short term, how many times must that be stated?
You think they didnt have major X-ray flares prior to the 21st century?

This may be too esoteric a subject for you to understand, but short term and long term refer to the length of the mission. As the Apollo missions were very short, there was little worry about very rare x-ray events. It is something, however, that needs to be addressed on longer term (that means they'll be away from earth longer, get it?) missions.

And If you want discuss amongst yourself certain topics, by all means do so, I dont have to partake, I can freely move on to new topics as I please.
What are you, the thread cop?

Er, you were the one who first said this:

I suspect this is one of those techniques to move the thread from serious questions that have been brought to the table.

Perhaps you forgot about it among all those brilliant lols.

reply to post by FoosM

A better analogy:
The Van Allen belts is an electrified fence... of 10 million volts.

"10 million volts"??? srsly???

OK...seems to be prove solid that you do NOT read the replies that nice people take the time to write to your nonsense, and try to correct your misunderstandings....

Sad.

(hint: Go look up "amperage". Try it. Please.)

Originally posted by FoosM
The Van Allen belts is an electrified fence... of 10 million volts.

Oh dear Foos, it just gets better every day. Don't you understand the difference between electron volts and volts yet? I though we had a little chat about this where I showed you how electron volts translate into everyday things to try and help you get some sort of perspective on it all.
You think we're surrounded by some big fizzing ball of lightning? I expect you're one of the people that think the LHC is going to blow us all up when you hear them mention Tev collision energies. Dear oh dear

Originally posted by FoosM


A better analogy:
The Van Allen belts is an electrified fence... of 10 million volts.
And the moon is ball that went over the fence and landed just six feet away. Solar flares are the three dobermans roaming around guarding the premises. An American kid wants to get to it, but doesn't think its worth risking his life for it.

Other kids who were playing, one Chinese and one Russian are also just standing there looking at the ball wondering how they are going to get it. The three kids occasionally throw rocks to see if they can hit it. Some do, some miss.

The American kid imagines himself climbing really fast over the electric fence, getting the ball before the dobermans appear. He tells this fantasy to the others that nine times he has been able to do so in the past.

One of the kids, the poor Russian, says he believes him, but thats because he wants to eat hamburger at the American kid's house. The Chinese kid rolls his eyes and says, yeah right. The three kids stare at the ball, wondering how they are going to get it.

Oh dear, how did I miss this monument to Foos' unending brilliance?

10 million volts?!

Really?

Are you that ignorant of basic measurements that you don't understand there's a difference between a volt and an electron volt?

For God's sake do a little research.

the end.

For whatever was left of your already-tattered credibility? Oh yes.

There will now be a prolonged intermission as Foos emails his buddies for stuff he can post to get him out of this mess.

******cue "Jeopardy" music*****

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Tomblvd]

Foos?

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 18-8-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

Originally posted by Tomblvd

Originally posted by FoosM


A better analogy:
The Van Allen belts is an electrified fence... of 10 million volts.
And the moon is ball that went over the fence and landed just six feet away. Solar flares are the three dobermans roaming around guarding the premises. An American kid wants to get to it, but doesn't think its worth risking his life for it.

Other kids who were playing, one Chinese and one Russian are also just standing there looking at the ball wondering how they are going to get it. The three kids occasionally throw rocks to see if they can hit it. Some do, some miss.

The American kid imagines himself climbing really fast over the electric fence, getting the ball before the dobermans appear. He tells this fantasy to the others that nine times he has been able to do so in the past.

One of the kids, the poor Russian, says he believes him, but thats because he wants to eat hamburger at the American kid's house. The Chinese kid rolls his eyes and says, yeah right. The three kids stare at the ball, wondering how they are going to get it.

Oh dear, how did I miss this monument to Foos' unending brilliance?

10 million volts?!

Really?

Are you that ignorant of basic measurements that you don't understand there's a difference between a volt and an electron volt?

For God's sake do a little research.

the end.

For whatever was left of your already-tattered credibility? Oh yes.

Whats wrong, you guys really have a problem with a 10 million volt electric fence? Is that all you guys have, to argue about some fantasy story?



You guys got my side splitting

Originally posted by FoosM


Whats wrong, you guys really have a problem with a 10 million volt electric fence? Is that all you guys have, to argue about some fantasy story?

No, we have a problem with someone who doesn't know the difference between volts and electron volts. And someone who doesn't understand what "long term" and "short term" means.

You guys got my side splitting

Well, while you're sifting through your organs, look for your brain, it's missing.

reply to post by FoosM

What a sad, bleak, fear-filled world you must live in FoosM. Truly, misery must enjoy company because you're trying so desperately to spread your tidings of fear and powerlessness.

reply to post by FoosM


No Foos, we've got a problem with someone who keeps trying to argue about something when they don't even understand the fundamental principles. You should be listening and learning, but instead you try and prove you know better. Give up Foos, you don't.
It's not the first time you've referred to electron volts as 'volts' either, OK granted one of your sources had made the mistake - but you should have known there was a mistake and highlighted the fact. You didn't Foos, do you know why? Because you don't know what an Electron volt is.
You don't know the difference between Proton Flux and Electron Volts either, so as you actually keep proving you don't even understand the units of measurement your giving, how the hell do you have the nerve to think you can argue wherever or not they received excessives doses of radiation?
I know I'm arrogant Foos, but there's arrogance and then their complete and utter stupidity.

I think you would be better off in this thread Foos:

www.belowtopsecret.com...

It's probably at a more appropriate level for you to join in meaningfully.

Edit:

A little reminder to Foos where he's talked about the millions of volts:

Originally posted by FoosM
Ok, but does that mean Apollo would have skipped any area's greater than 10 million volts, or even greater than SAA's 10^3?

Originally posted by FoosM
Any craft to escape Earth will eventually have to pass through 10^5 million volts of energy!

[edit on 18-8-2010 by AgentSmith]

reply to post by FoosM


I guess all the other attempts haven't gotten through...I figured the "electron volts" thing was too esoteric, so I mentioned amperage. Apparently, THAT wasn't good enough.

How's about a very (hopefully) understandable, and more every-day thing to relate to??

Gee....TEN million volts, sure sounds like it's instantly lethal, huh?

(recalling, for a second, that we WERE talking electron-volts, initially...but, even when I mentioned amperage in relation to ten million "volts", it didn't seem to make a dent in somebody's understanding....).

How about HALF that? FIVE MeV!!! Still gonna be bad, right?? And, "instantly lethal"???

Let's watch...first, part of the description from the video, and then watch and see how close the people are to the thing:

The interior of an 18" x 18" x 1" piece of Plexiglas was charged to ~ 2.2 million volts (MV) by irradiating it with electrons from a 5 million electron volt (MeV) particle accelerator.

[edit on 18 August 2010 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by AgentSmith


No Foos, we've got a problem with someone who keeps trying to argue about something when they don't even understand the fundamental principles. You should be listening and learning, but instead you try and prove you know better. Give up Foos, you don't.
It's not the first time you've referred to electron volts as 'volts' either, OK granted one of your sources had made the mistake - but you should have known there was a mistake and highlighted the fact. You didn't Foos, do you know why? Because you don't know what an Electron volt is.
You don't know the difference between Proton Flux and Electron Volts either, so as you actually keep proving you don't even understand the units of measurement your giving, how the hell do you have the nerve to think you can argue wherever or not they received excessives doses of radiation?
I know I'm arrogant Foos, but there's arrogance and then their complete and utter stupidity.

Let's not forget his relativity-overturning statement:

"High energy protons travel at the speed of light...."

(I think that was pulled from one of his many, insightful sources, but anybody with the slightest bit of science knowledge knows that is a grossly incorrect statement.)

Nichirasu, time to cue the Jeopardy music again.