Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

reply to post by FoosM




I guess FoosM prefers to play games, and "play dumb"??

Not going to work, everyone can see this ploy....unless he wants people to think that he really does not know how to tell the difference, in those videos??

Really? You want people to be certain you cannot tell the difference? Because, it will only serve to make you seem Foolish, and it's hard to understand why you'd wish for that impression. I'd think it'd be rather embarrassing, actually....


...but, if you wish for people to see that you cannot tell the difference between actual archival footage examples at original recorded frame rates, and documentaries that have been edited, and altered, for entertainment purposes, then I guess you've met your objective....

Originally posted by jra

Originally posted by FoosM
That all depends on who you believe regarding the intensity of radiation in the VABs.

I believe all the Countries and private companies that have satellites operating within the belts. If the information on the intensity of the belts had been falsified, you'd be seeing a lot of failing satellites.

Ok, according to the evidence given by these two videos, satellites generally dont fly within the belts.

"Killer electrons"?! Should you be hiding under a table?
Probably not. Killer electrons are what scientists call the electrons trapped in Earth's outer radiation belt that can damage or "kill" satellites. Many satellites that have flown through the Van Allen radiation belts have confirmed their existence and measured them. Killer electrons have been blamed for many spacecraft failures. Not surprisingly, understanding them has become one of NASA's top priorities.

Because they zip around at nearly light speed, these particles pack a lot of punch. Each killer electron particle may have close to a thousand times more energy than you receive in a dental X-ray! So you can see how a large increase in the number of them could result in serious harm to spacecraft. Killer electrons easily penetrate thick shielding and bury themselves in the insulation around sensitive satellite electronics. Electricity from these accumulating electrons builds up in the spacecraft, and a strong internal electrical discharge can occur - a miniature lightning strike.

Now why should you care? Since they damage satellites, killer electrons can cause problems with your telephone, cell phone, or television picture. Pager service and GPS interruptions also affect millions of people.

Since spacecraft systems can't be shielded from them, they have to be able to survive an "Attack of the Killer Electrons". To design this kind of tough system, engineers need to understand more about the radiation effects from these particle events than we do now. Scientists will be coordinating data from over a dozen current and future spacecraft in the magnetosphere. This will lead us to a better understanding of how killer electrons are accelerated, why the acceleration occurs when it does, and how the particles fade away after an event. There is a lot left to learn.
www.nasa.gov...

Would you like to change your position, or do you have evidence supporting your viewpoint?

Originally posted by FoosM


So where is your evidence?
You are asking me to find evidence for you that time was sped up to prove what exactly?

Eeeeeeh... to prove time was sped up?

I'll do you one better, I'll let you decide
Compare the video in question:

....

So, by your logic, if a single video shows evidence that time was sped up, every single video in existence will show this evidence if its sped up?

So whats your conclusion? What does it all mean and prove in your words?

That you are a delusional nut case that can't be convinced by reason.

[edit on 2-8-2010 by -PLB-]

Originally posted by -PLB-

Originally posted by FoosM

So where is your evidence?
You are asking me to find evidence for you that time was sped up to prove what exactly?

Eeeeeeh... to prove time was sped up?

I ask again, why would you want me to prove that for you?
Can you not prove it for yourself and share your evidence for it?

So, by your logic, if a single video shows evidence that time was sped up, every single video in existence will show this evidence if its sped up?

Is that my logic or is that yours?
I havent taken a position, I asked you to draw your own conclusions.
You can post your own videos and analysis if you like. Nobody is stopping you.

So whats your conclusion? What does it all mean and prove in your words?

That you are a delusional nut case that can't be convinced by reason.

What are you trying to convince me of? You haven't brought anything to the table.

reply to post by FoosM


I will take this as a "no I can't find any evidence the video was sped up because I am totally inept at analyzing videos". Anyway, that was the only point I wanted to make.

reply to post by FoosM


You post more "Moonfaker" videos as evidence? Have you paid no attention at all for the past 150 pages? There is a growing suspicion that JW is a paid propagandist for an unknown power. Until you can prove that he is not being paid by the same mysterious benefactors as Sibrel (et al?) you had better find a more reliable source.

Originally posted by FoosM
Ok, according to the evidence given by these two videos, satellites generally dont fly within the belts.

From your source, which I noticed you didn't put a link to, as usual

Killer Electrons

Killer electrons are found in the outer of the two belts. (Ions collect mostly in the inner belt and can also damage spacecraft.) The outer belt is highest above Earth at the equator, usually at an altitude of 13,000 to 19,000 km (8,000 to 12,000 miles), where many spacecraft are positioned. GPS (Global Positioning System) satellites are found there, for example. But intense solar activity can push it in much closer and impair even more satellites.

Emphasis mine.

Your own link shows that your claim is wrong. Oops.

Satellites might avoid the strongest regions of the VAB, but they still fly through areas of the belts themselves. Especially MEO and HEO satellites. link

Originally posted by -PLB-
reply to post by FoosM

 

I will take this as a "no I can't find any evidence the video was sped up because I am totally inept at analyzing videos". Anyway, that was the only point I wanted to make.

Well at least you are willing to admit your shortcomings

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM

 

There is a growing suspicion that JW is a paid propagandist for an unknown power. Until you can prove that he is not being paid by the same mysterious benefactors as Sibrel (et al?) you had better find a more reliable source.

Hahaha, you're great fun.

Even more so when I imagine your face as you type this stuff.




*Post proof that Jarrah is funded by an 'unknown power'.

If you don't know, then how do you know?

[edit on 3-8-2010 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM

 

You post more "Moonfaker" videos as evidence? Have you paid no attention at all for the past 150 pages? There is a growing suspicion that JW is a paid propagandist for an unknown power. Until you can prove that he is not being paid by the same mysterious benefactors as Sibrel (et al?) you had better find a more reliable source.

Hmmmm... the only thing I see growing are hay mounds to make straw men. Why are you asking me to do things you can do for yourself?
Ask JW about this issue you have with his financial sources.
I recall in one of his videos he mentioned his financial situation.

For the last few pages you have done much to not answer a simple question about JWs video. Its a fundamental question that relates to the validity of his series. Is he lying? You called him a liar, but you dont want to prove it, instead you are deflecting the issue to some conspiracy theory that JW is being bankrolled by some mysterious shadowy organization.

Who finances Phil Plait? Jay Windley? Or those people we dress up in Cosplay and travel to Game conventions?

So lets try this again, where in his video did Jarrah lie? Or are you willing to be a honorable person and admit you made a mistake or even purposely tried to tarnish JW's credibility? Are you man enough to do so?

Originally posted by Komodo

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Note how the PPK character has now deviated wildly from the videos showing the falling over now he's ideas have been proven wrong, ignored a request for he's credentials or relevant experience and is now reposting videos from before in a vague attempt to change the subject to something he is more familaiar with - watching moving pictures with sound.
I think it's clear that PPK is trolling, the only other alternative cannot be stated as it would breach board T&Cs.

for your info there pal.. we don't post 'credentials ' on ATS for obvious reason, we've gone over this a million times..

hence you've completely ignored his questions and refused to answer them in any logical way ..

it's really pretty easy actually .. CAN YOU RUPTURE THE SUIT~!!! derp derp..

yea.. speaking of trolling.. i dont' see you posting anything...'credible' YET.. just slam the character and move .. right.. hey .. but you got a star for it !!

Let me try using your own logic Komodo:
Can you rupture the suit, you ask.
Info on how the suits where constructed is easily availiable, but lets assume for the moment that, yes, you can.

So the astronaut has 2 options:
1) Don't fall
2) Don't rupture the Suit

Clearly some of them chose 1, and others chose 2.

So you too are one of those folks who just stop falling the minute they realise a particular fall might hurt you? I take it if you burn your breakfast toast, you just unburn it, yes?

Originally posted by FoosM
Well at least you are willing to admit your shortcomings

Or you seriously not capable to understand what I write or are your trying to be funny? I must admit it would not surprise me if the first were true.

Originally posted by DJW001
You have put your finger precisely on the point that causes people to think that the moon landings were a hoax.

Perhaps this ... the fake moon rock discovered by the dutch.

reply to post by ppk55


NOOOOOOO!!!!

Sorry, ppk55, you must have been on break when this was already covered!

The petrified wood "gift" was NEVER claimed to be a moon sample, except by the guy who just thought it was! Because, he was not all that bright, apparently!

That whole situation was an example of a comedy of misunderstanding....which is what this thread illustrates so brilliantly, as well...

Really....this is becomine outrageous, of you and the other "hoaxists". THIS STORY is easy enough to check online...just google the darn thing!!!



Or...keep it up, with the idiot "argument-by-YouTube" strategy. How's that workin out for ya, hmmm?

OMG PEOPLE - JUST LET IT STAY AS IT IS! It's okey when people don't believe we where on the moon. And it's okey if we think we where there. This is not religion! Nearly 160 Pages?! Comeon...

IGNORE IGNORANCE - Weakness is Power? Yes sometimes.
And now get a live people or I will start publish my own fakes! maybe pro argument fakes maybe con. Just to top (or stop) this insanity!

peace out!



LALALAHHH! CANT HEAR THEM LALALALA!

[edit on 3-8-2010 by cushycrux]

reply to post by FoosM

So lets try this again, where in his video did Jarrah lie? Or are you willing to be a honorable person and admit you made a mistake or even purposely tried to tarnish JW's credibility? Are you man enough to do so?

Pay attention, Foos, I have already addressed this issue.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Why are you so insistent that I find a lie in that particular video? After all, it's just one of many, and that video you keep linking to is not the original Moonfaker video, as you well know and I can prove. It was edited between it's original post in 2007 and now. In addition to the two specific examples I have already provided concerning his deceitfulness, perhaps you would like to hear it from his own mouth:

A few years ago, he was debating with some of the members of Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy board. Jarrah of course theorized that Apollo never left earth orbit. When the regulars there reminded him that the capsule would be the brightest object in the night sky, and very noticeable, Jarrah came up with his infamous "polar orbit" theory. For those who don't know, a polar orbit is one where an orbiting craft passes over both poles as it goes around the earth. Anyway, apparently Jarrah had read the term somewhere, but not the definition. Desperately trying to salvage his low earth orbit theory, he used this term. When forced to clarify, he said the Apollo spacecraft essentially "hovered" over the north pole in a tight circle formation, so as not to be visible to observers watching the night sky.

Now let me tell you what really happened. This occurred in July of 2006, not a few years ago, the Yahoo dbate happened in 2005, I guess vector didn't research his lie very well. (Edit for brevity, emphasis mine --DJW001)
Anyway, at around this time I had decided to make my MoonFaker series, originally it was going to be a written essay for download, and I had no intention of debating with individuals whose only goal was to muddy the argument ...(Edit for brevity--DJW001)

Anyway, with Van Allen's statement in mind, I thought I'd see how many pro-NASA propagandists would confirm the impossibility of getting there after being launched from Florida: so I invented a story about an Apollo capsule orbiting around the northern polar region. I never believed that, I knew to make an orbit you must orbit the whole planet: I just wanted to see if anyone would confirm the impossibility of doing what Van Allen suggest after being launched from the equator:

letsrollforums.com...

What do you call inventing a story you don't believe but want others to? This is a clear confession from JW that he lies. The only question is: which is the real lie? Did he really not know what a polar orbit is and then concoct a lie later to explain his supposed ignorance? Or did he lie to people to trick them into quotes he could then twist for his own ends as he later claims? Feel free to choose what sort of liar you think Jarrah White is.

Note: I apologize for linking to another BBS, but since FoosM has done it, I feel that Rubicon has been crossed.

Edit to note: Incomplete post. Will post later when BBS code is more co-operative.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by DJW001]

[edit on 3-8-2010 by DJW001]

reply to post by DJW001


Previous post, continued:

Jarrah White's reply:

Anyway, at around this time I had decided to make my MoonFaker series, originally it was going to be a written essay for download, and I had no intention of debating with individuals whose only goal was to muddy the argument (Edit for brevity --DJW001)


Anyway, with Van Allen's statement in mind, I thought I'd see how many pro-NASA propagandists would confirm the impossibility of getting there after being launched from Florida: so I invented a story about an Apollo capsule orbiting around the northern polar region. I never believed that, I knew to make an orbit you must orbit the whole planet: I just wanted to see if anyone would confirm the impossibility of doing what Van Allen suggest after being launched from the equator: I didn't have to wait long.

letsrollforums.com...

So, either Jarrah made a goof and covered it by inventing a story to explain it, or he deliberately invented a story he didn't believe (ie;lie) in order to trick his detractors into making a statement he can twist and use against them. Which type of liar do you think Jarrah White is?


[edit on 3-8-2010 by DJW001]

reply to post by DJW001


"Polar orbit"?

Oh, that's rich!

Shows how utterly incompetent Jarrah White actually is...goes directly to the rest of his "crediblity" (zero, it is...)

Very rarely are vehicles launched from the Kennedy Space Complex into a Polar orbit trajectory! Payload concerns are a lilmiitng factor.

AND, the Saturn V was far, far too massive and heavy to have acheived Polar orbit, from that location! (Probably not from any location, given the amount of thrust/weight ratio on that vehicle).

Those spacecraft (satellites...both weather observation and top secret surveillance types) that are desired in a Polar orbit are launched (if the U.S. is doing it) from Vandenberg, in California. Southwards, and slightly westward, over the Pacific ocean...so as the launching rockets stage, they have a safe place to fall to. Safe from hitting land, and people.

Drawback to this is the limiting of payload weights, because you don't have the Earth's rotation velocity to assist.

BUT, of course...in his vast ignoarance, Jarrah White would never be able to understand these basic concepts of space trajectories, and orbital mechanics physics.

His desperation is evident....and laughable, as his bufoonery grows....

...but, it is also vexing, and extremely harmful to those who fall prey to his claptrap.


Too bad for Jarrah....he doesn't do his homework, before spouting junk from his pie hole.

en.wikipedia.org...

Wonder what kind of grade his photography expert....ermmmm, no, we found out she was some sort of graphics arts teacher, NOT an "expert"...what kind of grade SHE gave him for this bupkis 'project'??

IF she gave him good marks, then perhaps her teaching credentials should come under review??

reply to post by FoosM

So lets try this again, where in his video did Jarrah lie? Or are you willing to be a honorable person and admit you made a mistake or even purposely tried to tarnish JW's credibility? Are you man enough to do so?

Are you man enough to admit that you keep referring to a re-edited version of the video that Jarrah lies in? This is what the original "Moonfaker" video looked like:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f4c3426ff3a4.jpg[/atsimg]

Frame grab courtesy of Jarrah White:
hoaxprize.ifastnet.com...

Unfortunately, the original, posted to the "International Moon Hoax Prize" web page is no longer active, so we have no way of knowing what Jarrah really said in it, do we? This is definitive proof the video has been doctored. As to the lie, well, "reasonable doubt" established?

I urge everyone to check out the International Moon Hoax Prize page, by the way. All you have to do is submit a video and:

Pay US$ 10 (ten dollars) to Paypal™ account [email protected]

hoaxprize.ifastnet.com...
There was to be a $2500.00 prize awarded in the first (2007) round. Who won, do you suppose? The site does not appear to have been updated in years. Maybe they just kept the prize money. And the entrance fee. At least we know it's on the level because they themselves say:

The Moon Hoax Prize is not a hoax, the $2500 amount will go to the prize-winner paid through the winning entrant’s Paypal™ account.

hoaxprize.ifastnet.com...
Edit to correct formatting.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by DJW001]

reply to post by Exuberant1

*Post proof that Jarrah is funded by an 'unknown power'.

If you don't know, then how do you know?

I've been dropping clues for pages now. Do what any good conspiracy theorist does and follow the money. Where did the $2500 prize money (never awarded) come from? Hint: think "Swiss Bank."