3 Million Mexican March to Mexico City? Y Not?

I was reading thread after thread, and article after article concerning the plight of the Illegal Mexican Immigrants.

I saw how much energy, emotion and passion is going into the battle against the US Citizens that are simply trying to get a hold of this aspect of our society, enforce the laws, and be assured that there are no special preferences for specific nationalities or racial groups.

I saw that these "Pro-Illegals" are willing to do almost anything to get their way.

It got me thinking:


If there are so many people in this country, pushing to help these illegal immigrants, I suggest they put all their energies and resources together, and go down to Mexico and try to fix the problem at the source!

Millions of Mexicans and Americans, worried about the plight of the Illegal Mexican Immigrant, can probably make a lot of change down there.

Why is that not happening?

Why do they believe it is a better course of action to force hundreds of millions of US citizens, who have no ties, or legal responsibility to accept their terms, rather than working with the people of their native county?

I bet they would get all the US public backing they could ever ask for...

Most may not believe this but, this is my opinion.

I think that ever since the Mexican-American war, when American troops marched on Mexico City; that Mexico has been a puppet of the US.

Many of the actions taken by both governments actually seem to back this theory up very well.

So why would they march on Mexico City? A mere regional HQ. When they could march on DC; the place that controls Mexico in the first place.

Look at the way the Mexican gov relies entirely on the US gov for just about everything. Supplies, Technology, Training, you name it.

That is just my opinion though. That Mexico has been a puppet gov of the US since 150years ago in the Mexican-American War.

Some History reading for anyone interested.
en.wikipedia.org...

DID YOU KNOW :

Included in the invading force were Robert E. Lee, George Meade, Ulysses S. Grant, and Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson.

They fought side by side just 30 years before the Civil War???

OK. Thanks for the info.

I am really going to try and keep an open mind in this thread. Because, I am really interested in why the focus is remaining here in the states, instead of in Mexico.

Here are my next questions:

1. Does anybody have an idea of how much money is spent by having this Illegal Immigrant presence in our country? I mean, in all areas. Crime, Health, Organization, Advocacy, Etc.

2. Does anybody have any idea how many different organizations are dedicated to aiding the Illegal Immigrant presence in our country? How much American "manpower" is being spent on helping these people here in OUR country?

3. If all of that money, and all that manpower, along with all of the political "muscle" that is involved, were to be directed at changing the "problems that be" in Mexico, instead of changing the USA for them, wouldn't that be a much more logical, and powerful direction to take?

[edit on 29-4-2010 by UruFist]

Strange.
I thought there would have been some thoughts on this.
But, I guess it seems that both sides would rather battle it out.
Okee dokee.

Originally posted by UruFist


3. If all of that money, and all that manpower, along with all of the political "muscle" that is involved, were to be directed at changing the "problems that be" in Mexico, instead of changing the USA for them, wouldn't that be a much more logical, and powerful direction to take?

I agree the solution is to fix Mexico.

I consider Mexico a failed state at this point. It has been drown in violence, corruption and crime.

If order can be established, and the drug trade eliminated; we can effectively remedy at least 50% of the illegal immigration issue imo.

We really are going to have to take a direct hand in solving Mexico's major issues before we EVER expect to solve this problem.

I know most Americans think "Mexico isn't my problem" , well it has BECOME our problem. And it was our fault too.

We are the ones who pay tons of $$$ for the drugs, and keep them illegal thus creating a massive underground criminal network with millions of people engaged in it.

Legalizing drugs would essentially bring the cartels crashing down. This is one major step towards a sustainable Mexican government.

We also need to get them farming again. Many of the farms left Mexico and moved north to the USA, and so the farmers went with them.

Let's get those farms back up and running down in Mexico, so they will have a job to go back home to.

Deny Ignorance

Well,I will start with this little know fact of the U.S. Constitution.

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion." Article IV Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution.

It does not say armed invasion, just invasion.

The fact of the matter as long as the majority of Americans don't see what the citizens of Arizona sees it does not effect them.

Particularly those that have safe secure jobs being employed by the Federal government and most State or County governments.

More people if they're here legally or not,just mean a bigger government.

L.A.County alone spends $500 million on services to people who shouldn't be here.

A half a Billion dollars of taxpayers money.

I have a theory, why the liberals and even the conservative politicians have turned a blind eye on this issue and won't do something about it.

It is not the country the illegals are coming from that is the issue.

It is the church the majority of them attend that is.

If they reproduce at the rate they do/are in 20 years the United States will be the largest Catholic/Socialist country in the world.

Deny Ignorance

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Oneolddude]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Oneolddude]

Originally posted by Oneolddude

Deny Ignorance

Well,I will start with this little know fact of the U.S. Constitution.

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion." Article IV Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution.

It does not say armed invasion, just invasion.

The fact of the matter as long as the majority of Americans don't see what the citizens of Arizona sees it does not effect them.

Particularly those that have safe secure jobs being employed by the Federal government and most State or County governments.

More people if they're here legally or not,just mean a bigger government.

L.A.County alone spends $500 million on services to people who shouldn't be here.

A half a Billion dollars of taxpayers money.

I have a theory, why the liberals and even the conservative politicians have turned a blind eye on this issue and won't do something about it.

It is not the country the illegals are coming from that is the issue.

It is the church the majority of them attend that is.

If they reproduce at the rate they do/are in 20 years the United States will be the largest Catholic/Socialist country in the world.

Deny Ignorance

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Oneolddude]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Oneolddude]

That's a pretty interesting take on the situation. After all, it is a Chess Game.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by UruFist

We also need to get them farming again. Many of the farms left Mexico and moved north to the USA, and so the farmers went with them.

Let's get those farms back up and running down in Mexico, so they will have a job to go back home to.

While I disagree with legalizing drugs (shudders, I use to think that was a GREAT idea) I do believe this point, about farming, IS a very good idea. I understand that Mexico is a very tough place to farm in, but if we spent money to start up farms; Building irrigation systems, pastures, and upstarting a transportation system for these farmers, then we could benifit from sending the illegal workers home, along with helping them by (I'm ready for the blowback from this already) providing these farmers with a few benifits in return for aiding their countrys reformation and lessening the burden on the American population at the same time.

Just one thought I had while reading what you had wrote.
----Edit for misquote----

[edit on 30-4-2010 by Seitler]

I only wish we had some illegal immigrants on the board, to chime in, and let us know what they thought of this.

Doppelgangers would be immediately identified.

But, I would love to hear if it would change the situation if Mexico repaired some of the issues at hand, with the aid of the US, of course.

I don't believe that our laws should just be ignored, and that the people of our country have no say in the situation, or that our resources be handed over to people that are blatantly breaking our laws.

BUT...

I do believe that there are other avenues we could follow, besides just shooting these people back to a country they are trying to get away from, and a lifestyle that is not allowing enough "life".

My thoughts are, that it is in our own interest to aid a nation that sits on our borders. For many, many reasons.

Well, they seem more than capable of violence.
So, let's arm them, and point them south.

Just a little food for thought:



I have seen figures estimating the number of Illegal Immigrants to be nearly 20 Million! I wanted to take a look at some of the less obvious, but frightening motivation for allowing the Illegal Immigrant population to remain in the USA.

1. Instant Citizenship- A decisive liberal/democratic push, turning these people into instant US Citizens would, overnight, upset the precarious balance of power that has been aiding our country with the "checks and balances" that have kept the pendulum from straying to one side for too long of a period.
It would mean a Christmas Gift of millions upon millions of votes, where, the day before, there had been none. It would not be a natural process of growth to the liberal side.

2. Periodic Amnesty- This is still a growth of millions at a time, if Bill Clinton is any example. Still an unnatural population boost to a specific ethnic group, where others are not allowed the same grace. And, to a lesser extent, still a slippery way to boost the liberal side of the see-saw.

3. From the Perspective of Legal Immigrants- Of course they want more Mexicans to materialize in the USA. Again, this is a boost to the power base of the specific ethnicity, where other ethnic groups are not allowed the same growth. If I moved to a country that was not Caucasian-based, of course I would want millions of Caucasians to move in! It increases their power base instantaneously. It's called "Taking Over".

4. The View from Mexico- If the USA keeps the illegal immigrants, that is 20 million jobs that do not have to be created in Mexico. Millions of potential criminals that do not have to be dealt with. God knows how much money that does not have to be spent taking care of these people. And, whether anybody wants to admit it or not, if ANY country is able to send 20 million of it's citizens into a neighboring country, that is usually called an invasion. At the very least, it unnaturally increases the Latino influence almost overnight. No matter what, it is a benefit for Mexico to get rid of these people.

5. Remaining as Non-Citizens- Also, now that we see the actions and gain an understanding of the goals of the illegal immigrant squatters, I think it is fairly obvious that even if they are allowed to remain without citizen status, their presence will be felt, and they will still be effecting life in the USA. They will apply pressure to their causes as a group unto themselves, or through the many advocates and advocacy groups that are stepping up lately.

I wanted to point out the possible effects of spontaneous growth of a specific ethnic group above all others.
If I have anything wrong here, or if any of you have anything to add, please feel free to post. I mostly threw these 5 points up here to focus on balance of power, as opposed to how it has been mostly crime, labor and health-care that his been focused upon lately.

Make no mistake people, there is much more to this situation that the financial burden aspect.
These decisions WILL decide the fate of the country.


[edit on 2-5-2010 by UruFist]

reply to post by UruFist


I'm actually glad you brought this up. You seem to have a better sense of understanding than a lot of people that post on this claiming 'this' and 'that'. Even I didn't look at from that point of view!

Yeah, imagine if the country suddenly did have an extra 20 million people supporting what ever president granted them amnesty. That said president, with the help of his persuasive tounge, would be able to make amendments to the constitution until it fit what he/she wanted it to be like.

Then, we WOULD lose a lot, if not ALL, of of freedoms, because people would unknowningly be voting on things they truly don't understand the consequenses to (I.E. National Health Insurance)

Again, thank you for puting that into perspective for us. Very well put, and very well thought out!

* from me!

Protest Fatigue in Mexico City, A Daily Mess of Demonstrations

MEXICO CITY -- On any given day, there are six or seven or eight demonstrations taking place in the Mexican capital. The city government keeps a running list of them on its Web site.

Protests do occur, they just seem ineffective.

Originally posted by links234
Protest Fatigue in Mexico City, A Daily Mess of Demonstrations

MEXICO CITY -- On any given day, there are six or seven or eight demonstrations taking place in the Mexican capital. The city government keeps a running list of them on its Web site.

Protests do occur, they just seem ineffective.

Maybe they just need 20 million more protesters and a bunch of support from their political and private citizen pals in the USA!

How about this guys...


We either do one of two things..


1: We say every American... That is every LEGAL American is going to just up and move to Mexico and exploit the hell out of it like they do here.

Maybe theyd go back, or at worst, wed all be sitting on a beach together.



2: We orginize a mass march to Mexico and get all the illegals to join in... Once they cross the border... Shut the gates and put up a wall. Guns everywhere, shoot to kill orders, no one gets through...

reply to post by UruFist


I wasn't entirely certain at first but now I'm more aware of your position on the topic. You want to fix Mexico so the Mexican immigrants stop coming here, right?

Originally posted by Goethe
How about this guys...

We either do one of two things..

1: We say every American... That is every LEGAL American is going to just up and move to Mexico and exploit the hell out of it like they do here.

Maybe theyd go back, or at worst, wed all be sitting on a beach together.

2: We orginize a mass march to Mexico and get all the illegals to join in... Once they cross the border... Shut the gates and put up a wall. Guns everywhere, shoot to kill orders, no one gets through...

OK...
1. Americans do exploit Mexico, to an extent. Everything from Hopping the border for booze or antibiotics to outsourcing clothing production for the cheap labor down there.

2. Welcome to East Germany. It's ok as long as it's happening to someone else, right?

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by UruFist

 

I wasn't entirely certain at first but now I'm more aware of your position on the topic. You want to fix Mexico so the Mexican immigrants stop coming here, right?

I think Mexico should be "fixed" for many reasons. The two most general, and important reasons being:
1. It would be best for Mexicans.
and
2. It would be best for Americans.

OK...
1. Americans do exploit Mexico, to an extent. Everything from Hopping the border for booze or antibiotics to outsourcing clothing production for the cheap labor down there.

Are you kidding me? This is what you came up with? I could come up with a better argument, and I am your opposition. This is why it is always wisest to remain silent when you are not in full understanding of the facts of an argument.
Anyway, you still didn't add anything to my point, or take anything away from it. You simply tried to continue vilifying the USA with your argument of booze, antibiotics, clothes and labor. You failed.

2. Welcome to East Germany. It's ok as long as it's happening to someone else, right?

Um, ok "add derogatory term here". Let's compare the USA to East Germany. Excellent!
If it's is so bad here, take a walk! And, bring your 20 million pals with you.
It's easy. You know the part, after they sneak into our country, and then stop, and stand on the nearest corner, (which natives of our small towns really love to see, by the way:@@, only instead of standing on that corner, just continue walking north! I'm sure our kind-hearted northern neighbors would love the company! Hehe.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by UruFist]

reply to post by UruFist


Are you suggesting Americans don't exploit other nations?

Look, we can have this 'debate' or we can recognize the absurdity of your proposition as it stands. "Let's all move to Mexico and exploit them!" Meaning what exactly? Use their healthcare system (a low-income American family can easily hop the border for antibiotics over the counter that you'd have to pay a doctor for a prescription and then pay additional for the antibiotics, same thing happens to Canadians) and do the sh*t jobs we won't even do in America, that's the biggest argument isn't it? Mexicans come here to mow lawns and do construction because real Americans don't want to work that hard for so little money.

If you really look at your first point from a policy standpoint you're advocating the overthrow and assimilation of Mexico with the addition of 31 new states. All so you can sit on the beach and keep brown people out of your hospital.

As for your second point how is a wall built with 'shoot to kill' orders not like the situation on the west/east border of Germany? The soviets built a wall with shoot to kill orders to keep East Germans from entering into West Germany. Could you not say the East German government was simply keeping the people out of West Germany as opposed to saying they were keeping them in East Germany?

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by UruFist

 

Are you suggesting Americans don't exploit other nations?

All nations exploit other nations. That kind of competition has been going on between groups of humans since the dawn of time. And, all other nations are able to protect themselves from that exploitation. Although, only the USA seems to come under fire for protecting itself from exploitation.
But, no, I was not saying that the US does not exploit. I'm saying that this has nothing to do with what is happening with the illegal immigrant problem, or my thread.
It was simply your attempt to be inflammatory. Unsuccessfully. Your comments about the USA exploiting Mexico for clothing, booze, labor and whatever else you brought up, has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Nor are they as serious as the issue at hand.
They were simply your way of taking shots at our country. Poorly.

Look, we can have this 'debate' or we can recognize the absurdity of your proposition as it stands. "Let's all move to Mexico and exploit them!" Meaning what exactly? Use their healthcare system (a low-income American family can easily hop the border for antibiotics over the counter that you'd have to pay a doctor for a prescription and then pay additional for the antibiotics, same thing happens to Canadians) and do the sh*t jobs we won't even do in America, that's the biggest argument isn't it? Mexicans come here to mow lawns and do construction because real Americans don't want to work that hard for so little money.

You aren't addressing my thread. I don't know what you mean with "Let's all go to Mexico and exploit them!". And, I am not even going to begin explaining the good changes that could come with removing the illegals from those terrible cheap jobs. You can do that on your own.
Nothing you have brought up is worth allowing 20 million people to have instant citizen status in our country just because they demand it. Or, just to take jobs that YOU think nobody would take.

If you really look at your first point from a policy standpoint you're advocating the overthrow and assimilation of Mexico with the addition of 31 new states. All so you can sit on the beach and keep brown people out of your hospital.

You are lying and spinning in the craziest of ways. Nobody said anything about overthrowing and assimilating Mexico. And, you obviously don't pay any attention to it, but those brown people, as YOU called them, are bankrupting hospitals across the country because of all the free health care they have been getting. Actually, "free" is not the correct word. Of course, the illegals are not paying for anything, but the hospitals are having to swallow all those unpaid bills. Which, they can't do, because we are now talking about 20 million deadbeats.
20 million people with no responsibility or loyalty to anything but themselves.
What a plague.
So, yeah, you are right, I don't think that should be allowed. And, thank you for pointing out another way that they are TAKING, and having a negative effect on our nation.

As for your second point how is a wall built with 'shoot to kill' orders not like the situation on the west/east border of Germany? The soviets built a wall with shoot to kill orders to keep East Germans from entering into West Germany. Could you not say the East German government was simply keeping the people out of West Germany as opposed to saying they were keeping them in East Germany?

Now you have proven that you didn't even read what I wrote, and you are only posting in this thread to break it down, derail it's goal, and create disruption. Much like illegal immigrants are doing in our country. Thank you again.
My proposal was for them to stop fighting the USA to change law and policy for them, even though they are not even citizens, and to return, with as much support as can be mustered, and fight their own country to give them what they need, and make the changes from within.
To go to another nation and demand that your desires are accommodated for, is beyond nuts! And, the more people fight for that very thing, I believe, the more US citizens are seeing what is going on.
You are not paying any attention to the thread, or it's focus.
You are simply ranting.

Mods, please take note.

[edit on 4-5-2010 by UruFist]

[edit on 4-5-2010 by UruFist]

yes mods, please take note - the very title of this thread violates T&C, "no shorthand or internet speak" - why is this thread even active or the title not edited?