The Arizona Bill on ILLEGALS, Answer Me This?

Let's see working without paying taxes, free heath care, sucking the life out of Social Security, I might jump the border and then come back in illegally, so the tax payers can pay for me too. Illegal is illegal bottom line. Go AZ, about time someone decided to step up, in trying to stop an epidemic of breaking the law. For those south of the border coming into America the right way, Kudos, welcome to America.

Originally posted by Locutis
Let's see working without paying taxes, free heath care, sucking the life out of Social Security, I might jump the border and then come back in illegally, so the tax payers can pay for me too. Illegal is illegal bottom line. Go AZ, about time someone decided to step up, in trying to stop an epidemic of breaking the law. For those south of the border coming into America the right way, Kudos, welcome to America.

Please explain to me the details of how all that happens.

Where in Arizona do you live by the way.

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by Annee

 

I'm not sure about that I know the like of Atlanta and Chicago have BIG Latino populations, and are amongst the favored destinations for job seeking Mexicans

Migrants are in all areas of the US. Some are legal - some are not.

My friend tells me about the apple pickers in NW Oregon.

The biggest problem is we are forcing a black market. When we had the Migrant Worker program - - it was regulated - and migrant workers kind of worked on a circuit during season. Then went home off season.

Now its every man for himself - and farmers are paying cash under the table just to get their crops harvested.

Okay for one working under the table,which means not paying taxes, which in return does not pay into social security, meaning more going out not enough coming in to keep it afloat. Been to an ER lately, no one gets denied, guess who pays for the doctor visit. No not from AZ profile says OHIO.

I wasn't speaking about migrants I am speaking of illegals.

Ok first of all this is plain racism. Your concluding that just because one person happened to be a criminal, stealing identity, the whole hispanic race seems to follow the act. Greedy Americans want to send all illegals back to their original country because they think that us hispanics are causing nothing but trouble and ruining the country. Well the truth is hispanics have the same rights as any other American. California originated from Mexico and so did most of the southwest. Illegals pay taxes whether they want to or not. Any product in the store happens to have tax and many of the things available in life. So what im trying to get to is no one really has the right to acuse Illegals or hispanics of a crime or anything related to that matter. If i remember good, it was just 2 months ago where a white man stole my identity and purchased goods over the internet using my credit card. The guy was dumb enough to put his real information on the purchases and the bank tracked him down. Just because of that i cant blame the whole white race of being identity theifs. Illegals use fake identities for a reason; to stay out of trouble from racist immigration officers who think all latinos are illegal and live the dream life they always wanted. No american that has lived their whole life in the united states knows how tuff the Mexican life without money can be. They visit Mexico and the government has no problem with it. Many choose to stay and even cause problems. What would happen if a natural catastrophy occured and the entire US was in danger. Most of them would haul their lazy selves and go to Mexico and seeing what most of you are saying, Americans wouldnt even belong there themselves. Yet theyll stay without proper papers and rest while things get resolved. Its like the day after tomorrow where everyone crossed to the mexican border ilegally to help themselves. My main point is dont put your hate towards one race you think doesnt belong, because the truth is everyone is equal. Every race commites some kinds of crime individually not whole. You should all be putting your thoughts on something other than illegals because this country is on its ups and downs with the new changes from Obama.

reply to post by rcwj1975


I don't think anyone is going to argue this specific case. But as I have said before...if this law wors great and deports millions and millions of illegal immigrants...but during that time it also infringes on the rights of ANY American citizen...then it is wrong and unconstitutional.

You CAN'T sacrafice the rights of SOME just because it will make your job easier. You CAN'T sacrafice the rights of SOME just because you know you will catch illegals. You simply CAN'T throw out a subset of American citizens rights because of the color of their skin.

On the off chance...say this guy was lying to you...say he had the SS card because he sells them to illegals...but let's say he was in fact an American citizen. Do you think because of the color of his skin he should have to prove what no other American citizen has ever had to prove???

Mistakes will be made in Arizona...I'm sure you will agree with me on that. But the difference is that when a mistake is made with this law...it will be at the expense of the rights of a United States citizen.



One more point:

So I ask you folks...as a LEO KNOWING (100%) that this guy is not only a criminal...he IS an ILLEGAL alien from Mexico...should I and my State have the power to make sure he is deported back? Or should I do what we have been doing for years....call ICE and tell them what we have, only to be told they are not interested?

I am not 100% positive on this...and right now I don't have the time to check it. But I don't THINK that this new Arizona law gives them the authority to directly deport the illegal immigrants. I think it gives them the authority to attempt to check their legal status...so I'm pretty sure you are still going to have to go through ICE because I don't think the local LEOs will have the ability to do that. It may be that they can drag them down to ICE instead of just informing ICE...but I still think you have to go through ICE. So it very well may not do anything...ICE may still decide to say they are not interested. But...like I said...have not verified this.

I think everyone should be implanted with a microchip and without the chip your not a person. This is the only way the USA will be able to weed them out, Just think of it, A world of only approved people doing approved work that's the corporate way = Just kidding.

I support AZ and their new law, but I don't like where this is going, the USA is already a prison with so many laws that you break them everyday not even knowing it, we have more people in prison then the rest of the world if I'm not mistaken. what is the answer to this issue? take over Mexico? I feel for them because I've see their country and it's depressing, But working in construction I've see what they are doing here! taking jobs from Americans, and poor quality unskilled work they do, most of the illegals I've worked with are good people that just want to make money to live and they resent the work they have to do here and I think that is why the poor quality.

Just think about how to prevent this issue? A state or fed ID card to open a bank account and all paychecks direct deposited? Not far from a cashless country and a micro chip in the head.

The greedy business owners here in the USA are where we start first they hire illegals because they can make money off them.

1. No taxes
   
2. No health care
   
3. Less pay
   
4. No SSI
   
5. No lip
   

and if they hire someone with fake papers or with no papers? the employer should have to pay a BIG fine and all the taxes and SSI that the illegal would have made. And if the states go over business taxes correctly no one could get away with hiring an illegal.

People need to make up their minds either no big brother or full on chip in the head and NO SOUP FOR YOU if you gots no chips.

Originally posted by Locutis
I wasn't speaking about migrants I am speaking of illegals.

In my experience - - even other Mexicans don't know who is legal and who isn't.

Unless you are a very close family member or had something to do with acquiring fake papers - - ya don't know.

It is not something they talk about in first person.

reply to post by rcwj1975


I say get rid of illegals. I also hope that other states follow thru and do the same. If i were a cop, I would make up something to stop them and see if they are legal citizens. Then i would deport them back to where they came. The states laws in arizonq concerning this matter, i hope they racially profile and stop and deport. so what if they stop you, if you leagal ,you leagal. The states and the military will soon take care of this working with the law envorcement. The illegals will be sent to fema camps and shipped by train out of here in mass numbers. You know who you are, bye ,bye. The gov't already started, in chicago some military people are going to be working with the local law enforcement to get rid of them all. I hope they all go peacefully to the fema camps to be processed and shipped out on a train. I'm sure our military can handle the rioters. The whole fiasco will be in the news, you can bet your bottom dollar on that one. politicians will also have several words in this situation. Im sure other countries will have some laughs on this one, THE TERROR WITHIN. peace.

Sorry, haven't been up to date on this topic, we have been vacationing in guess where? Arizona

Your question is what is probable cause, correct? Can they speak English?

Language

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language. Applicants exempt from this requirement are those who on the date of filing:

*

have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for at least 15 years and are over 55 years of age;
*

have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for at least 20 years and are over 50 years of age; or
*

have a medically determinable physical or mental impairment, where the impairment affects the applicant’s ability to learn English.

www.us-immigration-attorney.com...

Since this is a prerequisite to becoming a "Legal Resident", then if the person can not speak English, I would consider it "Probable cause" to detain, determine, release, or arrest the person, regardless of race.

I had some great Hispanic friends in Arizona and most all of them understand the word "Illegal" and are completely against criminals stealing their way across the boarder.

God bless, and God help America.

Now, back to my previously programed vacation

We all know that police are ordered to release illegal aliens criminals wile detaining and imprisoning citizens for the same crimes.


If people really knew how many illegals caught committing crimes are released without charges they would freak out.

most of the time the crimes are never documented because the cops know they will be turned loose, so the cops wont even make the arrest.

Those folks who say that this law will be abused so this law must be racist needs to apply reality a bit more to there thinking.

Its abusive to citizens to have double standards for criminals based on citizenship, Im surprised there has not been out right war due to this neglect by the federal gov.

Arizona must act in the interest of the people it serves.

Give him a trial???? Good God! The person was here illegally. He stole someone's identity. He is most likely a dirtbag in his own country. WHY SHOULD U.S. CITIZENS TAKE CARE OF ANOTHER COUNTRY'S CRIMINAL??

They are not citizens!!!! Apply like the good immigrants did and earn your way into this country!

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Personally, I think that he should be given a trial.

If found guilty, he should have to pay his fine, do his time and then immediately be deported.

So let me get this straight, you want to PAY HIS COURT AND DETAINMENT COSTS? No, absolutely NOT. send them back and let their own country, be it Mexico, Canada, Bolivia, Saudi Arabi, ect..., pay to keep them in jail and their lawyer costs. I'm tired of having our tax money spent on other peoples problems. If they are CONFIRMED illegal, send their @$$ back to their own country of origin.

We are NOT responsible for taking care of other countries issues, but yet a majority of our population thinks we should. Why, you ask? Because they think their 'moral compass' is better than the blind justice of the 'legal compass'.

If I break the laws, my butt is paying a fine, sitting in jail, and getting hit hard later in life. THESE ILLEGALS DONT HAVE LONG TERM CONSEQUENCES. They'll just get a new FAKE S.S.N. and start hurtng more people as soon as they get out of jail, if we don't take the neccessary measures to ensure this is stopped. It will take some time, but it will get fixed if we stop worrying about the well being of convicted illegal alien criminals, and focus on the well being of the LEGAL AMERICAN POPULATION!

................
"This has been Peter Griffin with 'You know what grinds my gears!'"

I believe it's true of Arizona and many other states that there are plenty of "Laws" on the books forbidding the reporting of illegals. For example schools, hospitals aren't allowed to report an illegal when they show up. If the "Government" was sincere about the problem they would repeal "Laws" not fabricate new ones. What this law does is fool the public into thinking they are addressing the problem when they are using the problem to create further attempts at universal control.

Anyone who harbors an Illegal by any means is really involved in treason against their state. By the language of Mexico, they are harboring the enemy. Claims of entitlement to be in the uSA are a declaration of invaders and an act of war. The people who are actively supporting illegals should be treated as traitors and agents of a foreign power. They should really be stripped of state sovereignty and departed. If they have children the children should go with them with an option to return as adults.

A lot of these issues get caught up in misdirection. The real problem is not limited to the illegals but the traitors within the state that support them.

reply to post by rcwj1975


great thread S&F
i support that too
i dont see anything wrong with this law though stopping hispanics and asking for identification papers looks nazi-ish
it is a neccassary evil and the only way that we will get illegal immigrants out of here

in short the ends justify the means

reply to post by rcwj1975


You rock! Star and flag and thank you.

What did you do with the scum? Lock him up? Deport him? Kill him?

I think the issue is that immigration officials are unable to respond correctly, or are just unwilling. I think that police have enough on their plate to have to deal with immigration problems. Law enforcement should deal with just that, law enforcement. Illegal immigration is a problem for sure, but it should be dealt with by people with the proper training. If the response you get from them (INS) is that they are not interested in dealing with a known illegal immigrant then the issue lies with them, not with the powers granted to law enforcement officials.

reply to post by rcwj1975


If an illegal commits a crime, yes, send them back.

As for this new bill, it's a bit repulsive.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher
Name one law that doesnt have the possibility of discrimination or abuse? Because the possibility of abuse or profiling exists does not make a law bad. Take for example carding for beer. Every time a 21 yr old gets carded and a 40 yr old doesnt is age discrimination - profiling by appearance. Do we scream prejudice about the law?

"If a pathway to enforce a law exists that does not violate an individual's freedoms, then the law cannot be deamed unconstitutional based on discrimination alone. The presumption of innocence must be afforded to this country's law enforcement officials as well." Chief Justice Rehnquest