I care not who makes these laws...

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


Well I am glad that jimmy has decided to help out us people that are Libertarian minded.

Sorry to say though, Libertarians created a great country once along with the greatest Libertarian Political Document ever created.

This country that was created by the very ideals you so flippantly tell us exists in Estonia or Dubai is not some backasswards country.

The document gave certain steps to take in case tyranny prevailed. It laid out the steps to take in order to address the problems that inevitably be created by fear mongers and power hungry sociopaths.

The first steps have been taken. The grievances have been laid on the table. The redress has not been given. The next steps are now being implemented by the government, further implementation of tyrannical endeavors.

It is almost as if history is repeating itself.

What happened the last time? That repeat of history will be the same.

And this is what I fear.


I have no desire to build a nation.

Im not a founder.
Im a father, and someone that loves my choice, no matter what it may be.


The only law I see that matters, is simple. Do no harm to no one. Period. Method matter not. Harm is harm. Do no harm.


If you cant follow this to a T, I have no need for you to be around me and mine.

An island... Hmmmmmmm. Ive spent the better part of my life living on islands. This is the first time in my life I havent lived on one.
The Keys, P. Rico, etc, etc....

This could work as theres many islands with little to no population right off our own shores in Florida. Only issue I see is others knowing this too and going there.

To make it like this you have to go where others are not, or can not.

I dont need to live in a house or a castle in the trees.

Give me a small bag with some key items and Ill be good.

I took 'classes' in the military on how to 'make it' in the wild.




I just have no desire to take part in the further destruction of this nation.

You may not agree, you may agree. Either way, I hope you know We the People have been now deemed the enemy of the state.

Good luck, God speed...

&

God Save the Repvblic...

Here's what eventually happens with your own island:

On 15 June 1972, the following Tongan government gazette was published:

PROCLAMATION
His Majesty King Taufaʻahau Tupou IV in Council DOES HEREBY PROCLAIM:-

WHEREAS the Reefs known as North Minerva Reef and South Minerva Reef have long served as fishing grounds for the Tongan people and have long been regarded as belonging to the Kingdom of Tonga has now created on these Reefs islands known as Teleki Tokelau and Teleki Tonga; AND WHEREAS it is expedient that we should now confirm the rights of the Kingdom of Tonga to these islands; THEREFORE we do hereby AFFIRM and PROCLAIM that the islands, rocks, reefs, foreshores and waters lying within a radius of twelve miles [19.31 km] thereof are part of our Kingdom of Tonga.

Landing on Minerva, years after the confrontation.
More people walking on Minerva.

A Tongan expedition was sent to enforce the claim. The Republic of Minerva flag was lowered. Tonga’s claim was recognized by the South Pacific Forum in September 1972. Meanwhile, Provisional President Davis was fired by founder Michael Oliver and the project collapsed in confusion. Nevertheless, Minerva was referred to in O. T. Nelson's post-apocalyptic children's novel The Girl Who Owned a City, published in 1975, as an example of an invented utopia that the book's protagonists could try to emulate.

In 1982, a group of Americans led again by Morris C. “Bud” Davis tried to occupy the reefs, but were forced off by Tongan troops after three weeks. In recent years several groups have allegedly sought to re-establish Minerva. No claimant group has to date made any attempt to take possession of the Minerva Reefs territory.

Republic of Minerva

Cant do it for long. The moment somebody discovers you, even if you're living on a garbage heap, they'll come to take it away and impose their rule.

I wouldn't doubt it if somebody went to live off of that great garbage heap in the Pacific sooner or later California would come buy and tax you for your "property" then charge you clean-up fees.

The only way in this day and age to gain any measure of independence at all is to become so rich and so powerful as to raise your own army and wipe everyone else out. Nobody will ever leave you alone. So, get rid of them all.

The only reason Dick Preoneke was successful is because somebody else was paying the taxes. If nobody was paying the taxes the gov would have swept in to toss him in jail. Weaver wanted to be left alone and they killed his family.

Wanting to be left alone is a sure fire way to get tossed in prison or killed.

You could lean some logs against a rock for shelter and make a suit of squirrel skins in the middle of Yellowstone Park and live there unnoticed for years not harming a thing and making no waste. But the moment somebody sees you it's black helicopters and National Guard combing the hills for the crazy man so they can charge with several dozen made-up crimes and lock you up.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

Well I am glad that jimmy has decided to help out us people that are Libertarian minded.

Sorry to say though, Libertarians created a great country once along with the greatest Libertarian Political Document ever created.

This country that was created by the very ideals you so flippantly tell us exists in Estonia or Dubai is not some backasswards country.

The document gave certain steps to take in case tyranny prevailed. It laid out the steps to take in order to address the problems that inevitably be created by fear mongers and power hungry sociopaths.

The first steps have been taken. The grievances have been laid on the table. The redress has not been given. The next steps are now being implemented by the government, further implementation of tyrannical endeavors.

It is almost as if history is repeating itself.

What happened the last time? That repeat of history will be the same.

I've got no problem helping you guys actually. I believe, fully, in the self-determining nature of groups. If there is a will strong enough, and enough people can be convinced to join in, there's no reason ideologically that you should not be able to build a nation somewhere.

I'm not about to leave my country and come join you in your endeavor, I personally do not agree with Libertarianism, but I'll give my two pence on how to do it and pass along any information that may help you.

So long as things are done ethically and without violence, I've got no problem with it from a moral standpoint.

As for not wanting to be the founder of a nation, as a few have stated over time on this board, I'm rather sure that most founders never thought that would be their lot in life. I would wager that Washington, Jefferson and the rest in the founding of the United States didn't tell their school teachers that they wanted to found a country when they were children.

I still believe the key in all of this involves a relatively industrialized nation with as small a population as possible. It would be far easier to ferment the seeds of massive political change in a country where the native population is open to change and can be mobilized en-masse by a small group of charismatic thinkers. The United States I believe is too large and ideologically diverse for this change.

In the case of international economics, which I do believe truly trumps all other variables in relations with other nations, a Libertarian country can compete actively which in turn will gain you many more friends than enemies.

I think this can be done, the key is finding a suitable location.

If the potential founders of a Libertarian nation would elect not to act through an existing nation or micronation, here's an interesting article from Wikipedia about unclaimed land, the laws involving it and where there is still some in the world today:
en.wikipedia.org...