What Does ATS's Motto "Deny Ignorance" Mean To You?

This thread is not about ATS, nor is it about myself, it is about you and what you believe.

What do you believe ATS's motto of "Deny Ignorance" means?

I see this as a meaning not easily defined by everyone the same exact way.

If we look at the definition of those two words, separately, they mean something specific.

Quote from : Dictionary.com : Deny

de·ny (dĭ-nī')
tr.v. de·nied , de·ny·ing , de·nies

To declare untrue; contradict.

To refuse to believe; reject.

To refuse to recognize or acknowledge; disavow.

To decline to grant or allow; refuse: deny the student's request; denied the prisoner food or water.

To give a refusal to; turn down or away: The protesters were determined not to be denied.

To restrain (oneself) especially from indulgence in pleasures.

...and...

Quote from : Dictionary.com : Ignorance

ig·no·rance (ĭg'nər-əns)
n. The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

From the About AboveTopSecret site we have this definition as seen by ATS Administration :

Quote from : About AboveTopSecret : The Motto : "Deny Ignorace"

The Motto: "Deny Ignorance"
More than a slogan and deeper than a mission statement, our members have embraced the motto of "Deny Ignorance" as our reson detre, demanding everyone who posts to aspire to a higher standard of participation. These simple two words have galvanized a broad membership base that spans the spectrum from highly speculative conspiracy writers to staunch skeptics. The result is a unique collaboration of diverse individuals rallying under this simple statement to learn from each other, discover new truths, and imagine new ideas that expand minds.

This motto has life. It has purpose. It demands ATS members to think.

It is a state of mind.

It is a sense of purpose.

It is a statement against the paradigm.

It is a rage against the mindless status-quo.

The idea of "deny ignorance" isn't a goal that ATS hopes to accomplish. Instead, it's a challenge. A call to all those who come here to aspire to a higher state of awareness through informed discussion and debate.

Deny ignorance is what we do.

It's how we think. It's how we talk. It's how we listen.

Ignorance is the social disease of history that has clouded our minds and dulled our brains. Is the evil that men do, the reason history repeats, and the cause of intolerance.

We deny it. it's not welcome here. Within these boundaries, it has no strength.

Here, ignorance is denied.

That is just it though, with the motto being Deny Ignorance, it is about not being ignorant, not showing ignorance, not supporting ignorace, nor spreading it.

At least in my opinion.

There is no specific meaning behind it, except to Deny Ignorance.

There is no "left-wing" nor "right-wing" if we're Deny'ing Ignorance.

If we're centered human beings, we neither subscribe to the left verses right mentality.

So, are you "Deny'ing Ignorance", or have you not found the ability to do so?

Deny Ignorance.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f1c03cfabff8.jpg[/atsimg]

Too many people on here I think think it means to deny that any ignorance exists, thus making it quite obvious that there is a lot of it that does exist. Even on here.

Personally though, I think it means to block ignorance. To enlighten people on the real issues and to not allow ignorance to exist.
To deny ignorance the right to exist...

[edit on 25-4-2010 by webpirate]

To me "Deny Ignorance" means "Know everything", because only in knowing everything can one have the knowledge necessary to know whether something is true or false.

My view leads me deeper however, for the only way to "know everything" is to "question everything". What may be plainly obvious to you may require more proof to someone else. What may be considered proof to you may not be proof to someone else.

Also, it is totally okay to disagree with someone. Or to come to an impasse. What isn't okay is to encourage BS in an argument, like because someone spells a word wrong they can't be an "enginear", or if someone's avatar shows a picture of a flying saucer, they must be a believer and there's no point in being skeptical around them because they will label you a skeptic who refuses to see the truth. Based on how I define "deny ignorance", I need to know about the BS as well. But can we all try and see the BS for what it is? Please. Let's get back on topic.

reply to post by webpirate


A very excellent answer.

To always examine, question, look into, and query what is told to us.

A means to look into ourselves and examine just how we want to believe.

And as well what we want to believe.

reply to post by danj3ris


Always remembering that other people have their views and are entitled to them.

Even if we disagree with them.

Especially if we disagree with them.

Because to be a diverse culture, we have to accept other people, and as well except to be accepted, and find common ground somewhere in the middle.

If we as human beings are to grow as a species we have to get past our differences.

And in the end, there is only one way to do that, one way indeed.

Deny Ignorance.

Hi SKL,

For me on ATS it means that I try to be a bit more thoughtful lately by looking deeper than the given sources and not to flag topics before I have read all the posts.

Recent example from 1 minute ago.

GM

In other words, "Deny Ignorance" means "Deny Dis-info" to me.

reply to post by Grey Magic


So, to you, it means dig deeper, and corroborate evidence?

Excellent points.

I do not arbitrarily believe something out of hand without investigating it.

I have even changed my opinion completely during a thread.

In the beginning of one thread I was semi-supportive of the original post.

By the time it got pages deep I was pulling out my waders.

And I had proven to myself that I no longer supported the original poster.

After doing thorough research I knew about the topic quite extensively.

That is not to state the original poster was wrong but that the evidence was unsubstantiated.

I did exactly what the ATS motto suggests.

Deny Ignorance.

To be not ignorant means to know the truth, but what is truth?

All of us are ignorant on loads of things, you cannot deny ignorance, as most of us are ignorant on many subjects.

Originally posted by sphinx551
In other words, "Deny Ignorance" means "Deny Dis-info" to me.

Yes, that would be a valid example, disinformation can cause caustic results.

In the Intelligence Communities, it is called blowback.

Meaning, do not allow something to falsley lead your beliefs, or you're mislead.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Blowback (Intelligence)

Blowback is the espionage term for the violent, unintended consequences of a covert operation that are suffered by the civil population of the aggressor government.

To the civilians suffering it, the blowback typically manifests itself as “random” acts of political violence without a discernible, direct cause; because the public—in whose name the intelligence agency acted—are ignorant of the effected secret attacks that provoked revenge (counter-attack) against them.

Specifically, blowback denotes the resultant, violent consequences—reported as news fact, by domestic and international mass communications media, when the actor intelligence agency hides its responsibility via media manipulation.

Generally, blowback loosely denotes every consequence of every aspect of a secret attack operation, thus, it is synonymous with consequence—the attacked victims’ revenge against the civil populace of the aggressor country, because the responsible politico-military leaders are invulnerable.

The BLOWBACK SYNDROME: Oil Wars and Overreach

Originally posted by andy1033
To be not ignorant means to know the truth, but what is truth?

All of us are ignorant on loads of things, you cannot deny ignorance, as most of us are ignorant on many subjects.

Truth is subjective to perspective based upon life experience.

Facts, are facts, but they can be twisted and or misrepresented.

I disagree with you though because I believe we can deny ignorance via learning.

Continually learning, continually exploring, and continually renewing our understanding.

Truth : The First Victim, The Last to Be Un-Buried, Never to Rest...

Deny Ignorance.

“Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.”

~ Dalai Lama ~
It seems the world around us is basically designed for those who are/ or who wish to be kept inside their own little bubble world. The simple things are made most important, even when the most important things ..could be so simple.
When I look around, I don't see an advanced civilization. I see one in deep decline, due to our own ignorant ways.We have forgotten who we are, why we are here, and what our purpose for the future of man and this planet as a whole is.
That is what "Deny Ignorance" means to me.
Deny that which keeps us, our spirits, our children, from being what we are all supposed to be.

I've never really understood the moto myself...because in my head "deny ignorance" means to be unwilling to admit that "ignorance" or a lack of knowledge exist.

To me...deny equals ignore...and I don't think we should ignore ignorance.

Defy is a much better word to describe what I think ATS is about...to challenge or combat ignorance...not ignore it.

So I usually, in my own head, think of it more as "Defy Ignorance" rather than "Deny Ignorance".

Just my opinion.

[edit on 25-4-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

It means nothing to me. in this I mean. We can't fake ignorance, either you are it or you are not. I always like the saying: Blessed are the ignorant, because obviously they are...

For me ignorance in the case of the conspiracyhype is not only projectable on the people tha don't care about conspiracy alien r whatever, it is also clearly projectable on people who just follow like sheep some theorists like "guru's". You just as ignorant only on the otherside of the festival called life.

I think that "deny ignorance" interperted as "ignornce does not exits" one of the most ignorant remarks one can make.

Truely I would love to be ignorant, but to many things keep me busy.. But still eey.... who cares I'm jus a dumbass, not pretending to e somethingelse for an egoboost

reply to post by AccessDenied


Well, I do see people as living in their own bubble, sometimes.

It comes through most when our own points of view clash due to a lack of understanding.

If two people are speaking about the J.F.K. assassination and neither knows the same information, it is like discussing something in two different languages.

Think of the example of a traffic accident and 10 witnesses describe it completely different.

All 10 people saw the same exact event, from 10 different spots, in 10 different frames of mind.

A great exampe of this is the movie Vantage Point.

Amazon Review :

Vantage Point, which aspires to be a cunningly twisted thriller, comes equipped with plenty of hurtling action, handheld camerawork, what-was-that? editing, and a plot that has multiple, contradictory agendas writhing like a nest of snakes.

It's all set a-boil within a few blocks of a town square in Spain where a U.S. President is targeted for assassination.

Although the movie lasts 90 minutes, the events it depicts are mostly over with in a quarter-hour or so--but seen, rewound, and reseen from half a dozen different (you guessed it) vantage points.

The first line in the credits reads "Original Film," apparently the name of the production company.

"Gimmick Movie" would be more accurate; the opening reel, effectively jolting, affords an initial overview of the events through the eyes, lenses, monitors, and dueling sensibilities of a TV news producer (Sigourney Weaver), her activist-minded reporter (Zoe Saldana) and crew.

Everybody’s in Salamanca (actually, Mexico City) for the start of an international conference to reaffirm Arab-Western commitment to the fight against terrorism. Terrorism, of course, sees this as an ideal moment to break out.

As gunshots and explosions reduce everything to chaos, the clock is reset to zero and we proceed to revisit the scene as experienced by several Secret Service agents (namely Dennis Quaid and Matthew Fox), an American tourist with camcorder (Forest Whitaker), sundry locals--including three who may be caught up in a love triangle or a conspiracy or both--and even the President himself (William Hurt).

For a while, this is mildly diverting: that guy, or that gesture, so sinister when glimpsed across the plaza in one run-through, now appears harmless in close-up--or vice versa.

But there's no real ambiguity (so stop with the careless comparisons to Kurosawa's Rashomon)--this is a shell game in which the peas aren't worth tracking.

Despite decent actors, the characters might as well be holograms (although poor Forest Whitaker is saddled with "motivation" of surpassing sappiness), and the casting telegraphs several twists: one redoubtable good guy practically gives a wink-wink, nudge-nudge that he's really bad, etc.

The movie declines to specify which nutjob philosophy the terrorists espouse, and their numbers are multi-ethnic.

There's also a laborious suggestion that they have bloodthirsty, reactionary counterparts among the President's inner circle, which perhaps qualifies as redeeming socio-political comment and prompts a meaningless declaration of deep meaning from the Prez.

The whole megilleh finally comes down to an extended car chase through impassably claustrophobic streets that would mark a lurch into unintentional self-parody--if only that point hadn't been passed a couple of rewinds earlier.

--Richard T. Jameson

VANTAGE POINT Trailer


Society is merely in a declne because we allow it.

I see it as necessary to make a difference despite what anyone else does.

Because here on ATS I live by the motto of this website.

Deny Ignorance.

To me, Deny Ignorance means SO many things! As regards ATS, it means:

- to be open-minded, yet skeptical.
- to post with the utmost integrity.
- to resist being drawn into the muck.
- to stay true to myself.
- to strive to see things from other people's views, even if I disagree with them.
- to contribute to, rather than diminish, the quality of ATS.
- to maintain personal responsibility and accountability in posting.
- to challenge myself to expand.

Denying Ignorance is a goal. It's never perfectly attained, but if I'm working toward it all the time, I can only get better.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Your answer explains it well enough.

To you, you believe it means the meaning you have explained, it has an abstract meaning.

Is this right or wrong?

I believe it means there is no right or wrong because everything is defined by our own beliefs, our own experiences, and our own knowledge levels based upon education.

Abstract ideas are something that needs a definition for some.

I remember the Hegelian Dialectic when I hear something abstract.

As well it should be showing that you are still here.

So, through the motto, whether you believed it or not, you denied ignorance.

Even if you chose to use a different set of words.

Defy Ignorance.

...or...

Deny Ignorance.

reply to post by Dumbass


One cannot fake ignorance.

But someone can fake and or feign stupidity.

It means exactly what it means to each of us independently.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
To me, Deny Ignorance means SO many things! As regards ATS, it means:

- to be open-minded, yet skeptical.
- to post with the utmost integrity.
- to resist being drawn into the muck.
- to stay true to myself.
- to strive to see things from other people's views, even if I disagree with them.
- to contribute to, rather than diminish, the quality of ATS.
- to maintain personal responsibility and accountability in posting.
- to challenge myself to expand.

Denying Ignorance is a goal. It's never perfectly attained, but if I'm working toward it all the time, I can only get better.

And our relationship is a great example of the motto, BH.

We both know we disagree on various topics.

Yet, we try and always disagree amicably, and love each other through friendship.

It makes me think of your recent thread as well.

Why do we "Hate" Those With Whom We Disagree?

My family motto is Nosce Te Ipsum.

Latin for Know Thyself.

If everyone chose to truly know themselves the world would be a far greater place.

Deny Ignorance.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

What Does ATS's Motto "Deny Ignorance" Mean To You?

First, it demands that I am not of a narrow, limited mind. Closed minds get lost in open spaces and ATS is by most any definition, a wide open space.

It also brings back so many nights in chat rooms and message boards before ATS, when flaming and trolling silenced those who did not bow to the local hierarchy. I will not attack anyone for any reason. I will not be an AOL troll.

Finally, ignorance is in itself nothing more than a lack of knowledge. By denying it, I must also learn and I am not now, now do I ever expect to be, so smart that I cannot learn something new.