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All Roads Lead to Rome
page: 90share:
reply to post by Aquarius1
What it actually boils down at this point with a couple posters is akin to this, a couple of children that you take out to dinner and they go, I don't want Pizza, I want Cous, Cous, pout, stomp feet, I don't want spaghetti I want Falafels, stomps feet. I don’t want Lasagna I want bagels and lox, pouts stomps feet.
The thread is about Rome, if you can’t even point to where a star gate is, where an extra terrestrial base is, where someone worshipping Enki and Renki and Spanki is, where someone worshipping Isis or Ra is, and how they make the laws and control the banking system, and have a military empire under them, and how Rome is partnered with them then no, it’s not only got nothing to do with this conspiracy, it’s not even topical.
The backwards logic some are using is akin to this, if a Deer Hunter goes out and bags a stag and puts its head and antlers over his fire place, he not only worships deer, but serves deer, and deer are secretly running the world and control all hunters and those hunters control all humanity on behalf of the deer!
He didn’t conquer the deer; the deer conquered him by evidence of the trophy and him displaying it prominently!
The fire place he put it over isn’t to keep him warm, it’s to give burnt offerings to the deer that secretly rule that world!
The mantle over the fire that displays other precious nick knacks and bric-a-brac are further offerings and homage to the deer that secretly rule the world!
It really is just people who have had months now to do research and present a valid argument on how the deer are ruling the world.
The present power structure at 2:13 am, on the 30th of August 2010 is run by Rome. The banking system is run by Rome. Roman religion divides the world and drives most wars. Monarchs and nations who owe their title and founding to Rome and pay homage to it in endless ways extol the people to fight those wars. They further tax the people to do so depriving them of those means to better enjoy a quality of life from an abundance of resources that Rome hordes.
The topic of the thread is Rome. If you can’t really display how it ties into Rome don’t ask me to do it for you, because the truth of the matter is years of research of everything that’s known to man and then some was woven into what may be the longest opening piece ever on ATS.
If it’s not in there, it’s because it wasn’t relevant, if you can’t prove it’s relevant, it’s not relevant.
Won’t matter how much someone complains about that.
In fact some people still fail to see that the thread is about hope and a positive message, we can end all this and create a better world, by recognizing the world we really do live in, and who runs it and to what end and how.
To stop empowering them, to stop cooperating with them, to stop being subservient and dependent upon them.
Weaving a bunch of unrelated additional elements into that have no tangible evidence and play no direct role is only going to serve what is very believable and makes sense to many people now, to become entirely unbelievable and make no sense then.
So are these posters really upset because the theories they can’t prove in any remote way shape or form aren’t included?
Or are they upset that this theory makes sense to a whole lot of people?
The topic is Rome, how it runs the world today with banking, law, military might, technology, science, medicine and religion.
What it actually boils down at this point with a couple posters is akin to this, a couple of children that you take out to dinner and they go, I don't want Pizza, I want Cous, Cous, pout, stomp feet, I don't want spaghetti I want Falafels, stomps feet. I don’t want Lasagna I want bagels and lox, pouts stomps feet.
The thread is about Rome, if you can’t even point to where a star gate is, where an extra terrestrial base is, where someone worshipping Enki and Renki and Spanki is, where someone worshipping Isis or Ra is, and how they make the laws and control the banking system, and have a military empire under them, and how Rome is partnered with them then no, it’s not only got nothing to do with this conspiracy, it’s not even topical.
The backwards logic some are using is akin to this, if a Deer Hunter goes out and bags a stag and puts its head and antlers over his fire place, he not only worships deer, but serves deer, and deer are secretly running the world and control all hunters and those hunters control all humanity on behalf of the deer!
He didn’t conquer the deer; the deer conquered him by evidence of the trophy and him displaying it prominently!
The fire place he put it over isn’t to keep him warm, it’s to give burnt offerings to the deer that secretly rule that world!
The mantle over the fire that displays other precious nick knacks and bric-a-brac are further offerings and homage to the deer that secretly rule the world!
It really is just people who have had months now to do research and present a valid argument on how the deer are ruling the world.
The present power structure at 2:13 am, on the 30th of August 2010 is run by Rome. The banking system is run by Rome. Roman religion divides the world and drives most wars. Monarchs and nations who owe their title and founding to Rome and pay homage to it in endless ways extol the people to fight those wars. They further tax the people to do so depriving them of those means to better enjoy a quality of life from an abundance of resources that Rome hordes.
The topic of the thread is Rome. If you can’t really display how it ties into Rome don’t ask me to do it for you, because the truth of the matter is years of research of everything that’s known to man and then some was woven into what may be the longest opening piece ever on ATS.
If it’s not in there, it’s because it wasn’t relevant, if you can’t prove it’s relevant, it’s not relevant.
Won’t matter how much someone complains about that.
In fact some people still fail to see that the thread is about hope and a positive message, we can end all this and create a better world, by recognizing the world we really do live in, and who runs it and to what end and how.
To stop empowering them, to stop cooperating with them, to stop being subservient and dependent upon them.
Weaving a bunch of unrelated additional elements into that have no tangible evidence and play no direct role is only going to serve what is very believable and makes sense to many people now, to become entirely unbelievable and make no sense then.
So are these posters really upset because the theories they can’t prove in any remote way shape or form aren’t included?
Or are they upset that this theory makes sense to a whole lot of people?
The topic is Rome, how it runs the world today with banking, law, military might, technology, science, medicine and religion.
reply to post by serbsta
You and these other posters have had months to display these alleged holes, and to fill in the blanks, to date none of you have displayed the holes, and none of you have displayed where any of the stargates, space aliens, Babylon or Egypt do.
Besides some references to these places in the Bible, and some people imagining vaguely worded riddles in the Bible point to such things as stargates and UFO's no one has displayed their significance except to a book full of riddles and vague passages written by Rome to confuse and manipulate the masses and set up the divine right of kings still being used to this day and the prophecies that will encourage believers in these books to roll over and submit as Rome installs a one world government.
The thread is not about religion or religious theory, or religious mysteries.
It's about Rome.
It's a TOPICAL Discussion about Rome.
It's not a baby sitting service.
So since you admit you are basically only here to 'complain' in support of two other posters who still after months can't actually display how these things have a direct tie in to this conspiracy and just come into the thread to post off topic and 'complain' I will make it simple for you, and them and place you on ignore too.
This does not prevent any of you from participating in the discussion, it just prohibits the three of you from discussing it with me.
Thanks.
[edit on 30/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]
Yes, I see your theory is laid out page after page, no one is pretending it isn't there. It seems to me that you are the one who needs to realise just how incomplete this all is and simply ignoring other issues by scrubbing them to the side won't make them go away, no matter how much you want them to.
Note; I'm not bringing anything new into this topic with these posts, merely supporting other members who are doing this and are being shut down for no obvious reason other than non compliance with this 'theory'. You know what they say about those who immediately shout: "AGENDA! AGENDA!"?
You and these other posters have had months to display these alleged holes, and to fill in the blanks, to date none of you have displayed the holes, and none of you have displayed where any of the stargates, space aliens, Babylon or Egypt do.
Besides some references to these places in the Bible, and some people imagining vaguely worded riddles in the Bible point to such things as stargates and UFO's no one has displayed their significance except to a book full of riddles and vague passages written by Rome to confuse and manipulate the masses and set up the divine right of kings still being used to this day and the prophecies that will encourage believers in these books to roll over and submit as Rome installs a one world government.
The thread is not about religion or religious theory, or religious mysteries.
It's about Rome.
It's a TOPICAL Discussion about Rome.
It's not a baby sitting service.
So since you admit you are basically only here to 'complain' in support of two other posters who still after months can't actually display how these things have a direct tie in to this conspiracy and just come into the thread to post off topic and 'complain' I will make it simple for you, and them and place you on ignore too.
This does not prevent any of you from participating in the discussion, it just prohibits the three of you from discussing it with me.
Thanks.
[edit on 30/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]
What about China?
It's current as well as historical (they claim 5000 known years of history, I'd say it's safely over 4000,) it's not mythical, it's not other-dimensional, and it's got over a billion people as of right now, as well as a large balance of US government bonds and contracts and relationships with many sources of commodities around the world.
It's current as well as historical (they claim 5000 known years of history, I'd say it's safely over 4000,) it's not mythical, it's not other-dimensional, and it's got over a billion people as of right now, as well as a large balance of US government bonds and contracts and relationships with many sources of commodities around the world.
reply to post by oniongrass
It's a big land mass in Asia!
Chairman Mao was born 5,000 years ago? The present Communist System of Government dates back to post World War II and the actual system of government being employed today is less than that about 10 years old.
People might want to keep in mind that all regions of the earth are equal in age. Most of them have been populated for much longer that 10,000 years with human life. Age and supporting a human population is age and supporting a human population.
Really have you got a dragon?
Could you post a picture of a 5,000 year old Chinese Dragon at a G-20 meeting with the world's leading bankers and industrialists?
Good then the picture of the dragon should not be a problem!
Sounds very over crowded the rest of the world has over 5 billion people.
Sounds completely Romanized and Americanized!
Now does Washington D.C. the District of London, or Vatican City have a bunch of Chinese bonds?
No because China uses a Papal Rothschild Central Bank.
Is China loaning the U.S., Chinese currency? No, because Chinese currency doesn't drive the world economy and is not the world's reserve currency.
Now do the Chinese own most of Chinese Industry or do American, European and Patrician Oligarchs?
No the Chinese don't it's American, European and British investments, in their manufacturing infrastructure that is also dependent on America, European and British markets and others to make that manufacturing base profitible in U.S. Dollars.
Does China control the Middle East Oil fields?
No, they lack the vital resources to actually independently run the nation.
Does China have a deep water navy that can use World Wide Gunboat Diplomacy. Can they even transport enought troops across the Tawainese Straight to invade and reaquire a traditional part of China they have wanted since the Communist take over of the main land.
No.
Is there territory growing, with an empire?
No.
Is international law based on Chinese Law?
No.
Does China abide by International law based on Roman Laws of War, Laws of the Sea and Contract Law?
Yes.
Has China influenced the Abrahamic Religions that are used to drive world events and divide the masses and set up the divine rights of kings?
No.
As we discussed in a previous exchange China is not in a dominant position which is why it has to loan the U.S. back the very same money it earns from manufacturing cheap goods for Western/Roman markets.
Proving that the fact it is a communist nation with a diffferent idealogy means absolutely nothing.
With a Rothschild controlled central bank.
An infrastructure that is largely owned by International Patricians, no deep water Navy, no dominant position in the U.N. World Body, no ability to even make a grab for the Island nation it covets 50 miles away, China is a paper tiger, and a nation full of cheap virtual slave labor, developing a hybrid form of government tha the Elites may use in other nations, like they wanted to use Facism in other nations back in the 1930's.
It doesn't drive world events and never has, the Opium Wars prove that.
Japan a much smaller nation militarily was able to walk all over it.
Since I have answered these questions specifically for you before, you might want to try to formulate a argument if you can as to why you think China has been driving the world for 2,000 years when clearly it hasn't, or that China is a banking force when clearly it isn't, it is simply being stripped of it's wealth as it loans it to finance the Military Conquest of Resources by a Military Industrial complex it does not own, and it's own is vastly inferior too.
All the while the Papal Banking system making profit off of the transactions and controlling the transactions.
Did the Chinese liberate themselves to set up the communist nation or did the allied Roman powers that won World War II?
They would still be speaking Japanese today!
There is a price to be paid for such courtesies.
Or can you explain at the very least how China manipulates 2/3rds of the world population through Chinese religion in the absence of no gun boat diplomacy, no control of the world's resources, and no control over it's own money.
You might also want to read the thread as China has come up again and again so you can better formulate those arguments.
I see no evidence China is dominating Rome or anything other than it's very tightly controlled mass of people. A tightly controlled mass of people who work in crowded dangerous conditions for slave wages to manufacture things for Rome. Cheap things, to go on your fire place mantle under the deer.
Thanks.
[edit on 30/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]
What about China?
It's a big land mass in Asia!
It's current as well as historical (they claim 5000 known years of history, I'd say it's safely over 4000
Chairman Mao was born 5,000 years ago? The present Communist System of Government dates back to post World War II and the actual system of government being employed today is less than that about 10 years old.
People might want to keep in mind that all regions of the earth are equal in age. Most of them have been populated for much longer that 10,000 years with human life. Age and supporting a human population is age and supporting a human population.
it's not mythical
Really have you got a dragon?
Could you post a picture of a 5,000 year old Chinese Dragon at a G-20 meeting with the world's leading bankers and industrialists?
it's not other-dimensional
Good then the picture of the dragon should not be a problem!
and it's got over a billion people as of right now
Sounds very over crowded the rest of the world has over 5 billion people.
as well as a large balance of US government bonds and contracts and relationships with many sources of commodities around the world
Sounds completely Romanized and Americanized!
Now does Washington D.C. the District of London, or Vatican City have a bunch of Chinese bonds?
No because China uses a Papal Rothschild Central Bank.
Is China loaning the U.S., Chinese currency? No, because Chinese currency doesn't drive the world economy and is not the world's reserve currency.
Now do the Chinese own most of Chinese Industry or do American, European and Patrician Oligarchs?
No the Chinese don't it's American, European and British investments, in their manufacturing infrastructure that is also dependent on America, European and British markets and others to make that manufacturing base profitible in U.S. Dollars.
Does China control the Middle East Oil fields?
No, they lack the vital resources to actually independently run the nation.
Does China have a deep water navy that can use World Wide Gunboat Diplomacy. Can they even transport enought troops across the Tawainese Straight to invade and reaquire a traditional part of China they have wanted since the Communist take over of the main land.
No.
Is there territory growing, with an empire?
No.
Is international law based on Chinese Law?
No.
Does China abide by International law based on Roman Laws of War, Laws of the Sea and Contract Law?
Yes.
Has China influenced the Abrahamic Religions that are used to drive world events and divide the masses and set up the divine rights of kings?
No.
As we discussed in a previous exchange China is not in a dominant position which is why it has to loan the U.S. back the very same money it earns from manufacturing cheap goods for Western/Roman markets.
Proving that the fact it is a communist nation with a diffferent idealogy means absolutely nothing.
With a Rothschild controlled central bank.
An infrastructure that is largely owned by International Patricians, no deep water Navy, no dominant position in the U.N. World Body, no ability to even make a grab for the Island nation it covets 50 miles away, China is a paper tiger, and a nation full of cheap virtual slave labor, developing a hybrid form of government tha the Elites may use in other nations, like they wanted to use Facism in other nations back in the 1930's.
It doesn't drive world events and never has, the Opium Wars prove that.
Japan a much smaller nation militarily was able to walk all over it.
Since I have answered these questions specifically for you before, you might want to try to formulate a argument if you can as to why you think China has been driving the world for 2,000 years when clearly it hasn't, or that China is a banking force when clearly it isn't, it is simply being stripped of it's wealth as it loans it to finance the Military Conquest of Resources by a Military Industrial complex it does not own, and it's own is vastly inferior too.
All the while the Papal Banking system making profit off of the transactions and controlling the transactions.
Did the Chinese liberate themselves to set up the communist nation or did the allied Roman powers that won World War II?
They would still be speaking Japanese today!
There is a price to be paid for such courtesies.
Or can you explain at the very least how China manipulates 2/3rds of the world population through Chinese religion in the absence of no gun boat diplomacy, no control of the world's resources, and no control over it's own money.
You might also want to read the thread as China has come up again and again so you can better formulate those arguments.
I see no evidence China is dominating Rome or anything other than it's very tightly controlled mass of people. A tightly controlled mass of people who work in crowded dangerous conditions for slave wages to manufacture things for Rome. Cheap things, to go on your fire place mantle under the deer.
Thanks.
[edit on 30/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Stormdancer777
It's this simple Stormdancer, we can save humanity when we heal humanity, and unfortunately if you ever read Proto's Astrological Chart, born on the same day as one Julius Caesar, that task of healing humanity seems to have fallen on me.
Now I did not ask for the job, and the pay sucks!
But if you really read this thread, I have touched on a lot of very powerful things on how we can begin to heal humanity and change the course of the world.
A few people though, would much rather prefer, to touch upon these religious notions that something bigger than ourselves has to do these things, that we are incapable of it ourselves, that we can't so lets argue about that other thing and those notions bitterly.
This is in fact why we are scarred, and need healing storm dancer, because we have been hurting one and other and our selves for a very long time.
In fact we have become so dysfuntcional few of us believe in ourselves enough to even think we can become the Masters of our own destiny and universe and deserve to even live in it.
That's badly wounded.
It's about forgiveness, another virtue of Christ and Apollo and Caesar himself, so people can begin to stop hating, and mistrusting, and fighting over vanities, and prides, and jealousies, and heal and move forward.
Proto has a a job to do, a big one!
So why not try to help Proto out since it's a worthy cause.
I am not asking for your money, I am asking for your love, and to love everyone, and to forgive everyone, by first forgiving yourself, and everyone to take off their mask, admit what is really going on, and stop playing the game, that is going to destroy us.
Now on the spiritual level that is what Proto is up too, and the Universe would not have given Proto this task, if they thought Proto uncapable of carrying it out!
Thanks.
With this in mind again, how is it you hope to accomplish this?
Legend tells us a young rabbinical Hebrew Rebel named Jesus Christ was at the same time Caesar was planning to revolutionize the world, was also engaged in the same process, only spiritually.
So was, there or was there was not a Hebrew rebel?
The seeds were slowly being planted for the world’s greatest conspiracy ever, a conspiracy still taking place today. A conspiracy perhaps destined to finally succeed after millennia in the making in our lifetime.
The religion that would give birth to Jesus Christ, a figure to metaphorically patterned off of Julius Caesar was being born through Josephus’s popular accounts. "
www.abovetopsecret.com...
So you are patterning yourself as Jesus Christ?
here?
So what is all boils down to is love?
Ok so with this in mind and you being the born again Julius Caesar/Jesus Christ, what is all boils down to is love will heal the planet, and this love will come from you?
Who's message is love, I was wondering how you are going to impart that love to everyone else,
Someone came before you that already taught that message.
How is your message of love any different the Christ message of love, that you claim is myth?
And do you think that in your on line persona and off line persona you are reflecting the light of love that will heal the planet?
Love thy enemies, For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye?
reply to post by serbsta
First of all, I have no desire to be cast into a role here. I don't feel I need to take a side, or whatever, I see there has been some back and forth for a while, I'm sure you guys can figure it out.
Regarding religion, I actually consider it one of my "specialties", and so I don't consider myself completely ignorant of it's "significance", as you put it, even though I am not religious myself. I hope that doesn't make me sound like a hypocrite, I don't feel that is the case. I simply try and look at religion the way our Masters do, and then allow "significance" more definition, based on "their" perspective. Which is more important than mine, or yours.
The few times I felt the need to post was when I saw religion was becoming relevant to what was being discussed, or, as in the recent case, it appeared to me that "hints" were being dropped by someone who was about to launch into an "agenda". I may have been wrong about that, but in this particular case, I felt that my inclusion of Baha'i was in fact relevant to the thread, since it is the ONLY world religion currently promoted by the United Nations. By that virtue, it would tie into Rome, given the theory being discussed.
And by the way, Proto made his suggestion that I start a thread on it, so I see he must not be playing favorites, since he has said that over and over to lots of people, even when things were perhaps relevant. It can come down to simply "where" best to get into details. Obviously his "grand" theory thread is not the place for minutia, and I have no problem with that, why would I?
Now, back to my "religionizing" comment. My intention is certainly not to minimize it's relevance, or importance. But look how it's been going so far. Page, after page, with (mostly) Christians, whining, being silly, at one point even asserting that Proto might be the Antichrist...
Sheesh. Sorry folks, that's the kind of thing I can't see as productive, in any sense. Do I agree with Proto about this issue? Of course, and so should anyone, who has been continually distracted by what looks like mostly religious people, who don't "get" that the things they bring up, are supposed to tie in to the topic. If they don't, and they just want to say something about Jesus, or Mohammed, etc., then there are other threads where they can do that.
And they can stomp their feet of course, but I agree that they should still be shown the door, IMO.
JR
"Religionize" it?
Have we read the same OP or are you reading a different thread?
If we're reading the same thread then I'm not sure that you're grasping the significance of religion in this theory. Ignoring pre-Roman history and the religious developments that preceded any institutionalized acts makes no sense and only pushes one into an area with no proper historical foundation for building up any theory at all.
First of all, I have no desire to be cast into a role here. I don't feel I need to take a side, or whatever, I see there has been some back and forth for a while, I'm sure you guys can figure it out.
Regarding religion, I actually consider it one of my "specialties", and so I don't consider myself completely ignorant of it's "significance", as you put it, even though I am not religious myself. I hope that doesn't make me sound like a hypocrite, I don't feel that is the case. I simply try and look at religion the way our Masters do, and then allow "significance" more definition, based on "their" perspective. Which is more important than mine, or yours.
The few times I felt the need to post was when I saw religion was becoming relevant to what was being discussed, or, as in the recent case, it appeared to me that "hints" were being dropped by someone who was about to launch into an "agenda". I may have been wrong about that, but in this particular case, I felt that my inclusion of Baha'i was in fact relevant to the thread, since it is the ONLY world religion currently promoted by the United Nations. By that virtue, it would tie into Rome, given the theory being discussed.
And by the way, Proto made his suggestion that I start a thread on it, so I see he must not be playing favorites, since he has said that over and over to lots of people, even when things were perhaps relevant. It can come down to simply "where" best to get into details. Obviously his "grand" theory thread is not the place for minutia, and I have no problem with that, why would I?
Now, back to my "religionizing" comment. My intention is certainly not to minimize it's relevance, or importance. But look how it's been going so far. Page, after page, with (mostly) Christians, whining, being silly, at one point even asserting that Proto might be the Antichrist...
Sheesh. Sorry folks, that's the kind of thing I can't see as productive, in any sense. Do I agree with Proto about this issue? Of course, and so should anyone, who has been continually distracted by what looks like mostly religious people, who don't "get" that the things they bring up, are supposed to tie in to the topic. If they don't, and they just want to say something about Jesus, or Mohammed, etc., then there are other threads where they can do that.
And they can stomp their feet of course, but I agree that they should still be shown the door, IMO.
JR
So now that it can be irrefutably established as fact rather than just theory, and since your objective is to present hope and positive change, I
would really like to see this thread take a turn in discussing the unraveling of the tie that binds or making the power of Rome truly work for the
benefit of the world it owns.
Which will it be?
And yes, the pieces fall together perfectly, Proto. We are dissecting the facts that Rome does rule the world, not only through it's internal established "plants" of a gigantic network of societies, but also outright ownership through Commonwealth nations and protectorates, and even non governmental groups. It is such a veinous network and is far reaching.
Rome certainly has the organizational skills. Could there actually be a benevolent plan underneath all of this? Can a leopard change its spots?
[edit on 30-8-2010 by Alethea]
Which will it be?
And yes, the pieces fall together perfectly, Proto. We are dissecting the facts that Rome does rule the world, not only through it's internal established "plants" of a gigantic network of societies, but also outright ownership through Commonwealth nations and protectorates, and even non governmental groups. It is such a veinous network and is far reaching.
Rome certainly has the organizational skills. Could there actually be a benevolent plan underneath all of this? Can a leopard change its spots?
[edit on 30-8-2010 by Alethea]
reply to post by oniongrass
So you better might understand China’s relationship to the New World Order and Rome’s plans it helps to understand that what might threaten you as an American is not necessarily a threat to Rome and Roman Power.
To Roman plans.
What threatens you as an American typically is always going to be something that makes the elite stronger.
One of the reasons I have strongly discourage topical drift is it’s a sweeping conspiracy. That does have a lot of elements to it, that all play an important part, if one follows along through a thread that is now longer than Tolstoy’s Anna Katrina and War and Peace combined.
In part that length is due to a lot of topical drift.
As an American China does represent a threat to you, it has had a huge number of American Jobs and wealth transferred to it.
China did not propel that, Americans propelled that. Americans propelled that in two ways.
The first was the corporate oligarchs looking to hide inflation in the currency by finding a substitute source of cheaper labor, and cheaper raw materials.
The second was Americans themselves willing to buy these things and transfer their jobs and wealth to China.
So who has grown China, you have, with 9.99 cents shirts, 15.99 cookware, 29.99 coffee tables, and 100.00 dollar CD Palyers and Stereos that you bought transferring your own wealth to China.
Now there are two other reasons besides profit why the Patricians decided to start transferring wealth and jobs out of America to places like China and India.
Because the world is actually united under common currencies, and shared banking system, and shared international laws, it makes no difference to Rome how an individual nation is presently ruled.
What does matter to Rome that it maintains order within its nation.
The difference between a mob, and an productive mass of people is its government. Government has to be able to provide some form of job and opportunity through work or trade to people to keep them productive, willing to follow a governments rule, and maintain an orderly society. A productive orderly society, without jobs and opportunities to sustain themselves, the people do turn to mob rule, and that mob can in fact do away with the common Roman systems of banking, commerce and international law. This does hurt Rome, so keeping nations productive and up to a certain standard of living, especially large and heavily populated nations are in Rome’s interests always.
China and India both desperately needed jobs, with out them, they did have the potential to turn into mobs, mobs that would no longer participate in the Roman system, and mobs that would no longer contribute anything of any value to the greater empire.
When this kind of breakdown happens you have something like Somalia and a few other African nations teetering towards a similar fate that don’t have the local resources to cheaply put people to work.
Then it requires charity to keep these nations going, usually just enough to let them starve slowly, since they have no resources locally that Rome and the empire needs or could use this doesn’t much matter to Rome.
Allowing a nation to degrade into a ungoverned mob that has resources of value to Rome is something Rome has an interest in preventing.
So the first part of the equation was transferring wealth away from America and jobs away from America to keep places like China and India stable and contributing and participating in the International system.
Now what the Patricians have learned over time about governing is two things.
If you have too many people in total poverty they will rebel.
If you have too large of an affluent middle class they will rebel.
What America discovered as far as it’s own governance in the late 60’s and early 70’s is that there was too large a middle class, that was affluent enough to where it could afford to dabble in grass roots politics and take up causes that were contrary to Government policy.
The civil rights movement, aided mostly by young affluent white people, the anti-war movement comprised of mostly young people from affluent families that had both money and time to be a vocal and visible and threatening presence to how the nation was being run.
The million hippies camped out for days at a time on the Washington Mall could have stormed the White House Fence and the Capitol building at any time.
That scared the heck out of the Government and the Nixon administration.
They were there for two reasons, they did not like how the government was working and the policies that it was formulating and they had enough money and leisure time to be able to congregate into a threatening mass of people that could have torn down the government establishment.
So there were two solutions, allow the people to set the agenda, and make them happy in that way, or start eliminating the middle class so no one would have the money and time to congregate and form a mob that could overthrow government or force it to change course.
This is where China and India came in, and our Roman controlled politicians who sold the idea of a global economy and America being a service society instead of a manufacturing society.
Once manufacturing was well under way being transferred to China, then the service jobs themselves were transferred to India.
The trick for Rome is balancing the affluence of populations so they are neither too poor, nor too affluent to where they would rebel against local rule, and the larger Roman system that binds it all together.
China did not cause this to happen, and India did not cause this to happen.
The Oligarchs caused this to happen as part of their own system of governance of the world, which they have their resources and investments spread throughout and need the entire population of the planet to more or less go along with that system.
Now yes this has all impacted American life but the truth is that without Americans buying Chinese and other foreign goods, and then seeking service for them through yet more foreign nations then the Oligarchs could have never gotten away with this, and China would have never benefited from it.
Part of what this thread is about is helping people learn that you yourself are aiding in the very things you now fear and have become a detriment to you.
People did this in part because they believed their politicians, in part because they wanted to save a dollar, especially when it wasn’t at their expense but some one else’s locally in the nation.
It didn’t matter to them if Stan in Wisconsin lost his job to Chang in China, just that they could save .39 cents on a doo-dad that once upon a time not only did American companies make better, but any American could have made.
Half the wealth China has earned from America could have stayed here by you buying a sewing machine and some basic woodworking tools and choosing to be self sufficient.
All of it could have stayed here if you refused to buy Chinese goods.
Understand that what is now a threat to your way of life as you perceive it on a national level is not really a threat to Rome that is orchestrating it all, and profiting off of it all, and controlling it all.
That’s the real what about China that has been discussed a few different times in the threat.
I am happy to answer anyone’s questions, and consider their theories, but it is time consuming, and takes me away from things I need to do to sustain myself in the world.
It is also frustrating when I know I have laid it out multiple times in the thread and I know that people are either not bothering to read the thread as a result or simply trying to take the thread off topic.
In short China can be defeated, the same way Rome can be defeated, and that only requires you not doing the things that aide it.
Who made China so strong, you made China so strong if you buy their goods.
The fact that all that money comes right back to America in the form of loans, displays it really is about keeping some people employed in other parts of the world, and more people poorer here.
In part by creating more debt than ever in your name through borrowing that money, and most of that money goes to the military to secure the resources for the Patricians and maintain International Order and Law under the Roman system, with another sizable portion going to welfare and charity programs to sustain the now increasingly poorer Americans as Rome continues it’s war on our Middle Class to make us more pliable, and controllable.
Having a greater understanding of these things is truly important, the thread is truly important, and that’s why it’s important to keep it on topic, keep the drama out of it, and focus not on symptoms or fears, but root causes and solutions.
Thanks.
[edit on 30/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]
So you better might understand China’s relationship to the New World Order and Rome’s plans it helps to understand that what might threaten you as an American is not necessarily a threat to Rome and Roman Power.
To Roman plans.
What threatens you as an American typically is always going to be something that makes the elite stronger.
One of the reasons I have strongly discourage topical drift is it’s a sweeping conspiracy. That does have a lot of elements to it, that all play an important part, if one follows along through a thread that is now longer than Tolstoy’s Anna Katrina and War and Peace combined.
In part that length is due to a lot of topical drift.
As an American China does represent a threat to you, it has had a huge number of American Jobs and wealth transferred to it.
China did not propel that, Americans propelled that. Americans propelled that in two ways.
The first was the corporate oligarchs looking to hide inflation in the currency by finding a substitute source of cheaper labor, and cheaper raw materials.
The second was Americans themselves willing to buy these things and transfer their jobs and wealth to China.
So who has grown China, you have, with 9.99 cents shirts, 15.99 cookware, 29.99 coffee tables, and 100.00 dollar CD Palyers and Stereos that you bought transferring your own wealth to China.
Now there are two other reasons besides profit why the Patricians decided to start transferring wealth and jobs out of America to places like China and India.
Because the world is actually united under common currencies, and shared banking system, and shared international laws, it makes no difference to Rome how an individual nation is presently ruled.
What does matter to Rome that it maintains order within its nation.
The difference between a mob, and an productive mass of people is its government. Government has to be able to provide some form of job and opportunity through work or trade to people to keep them productive, willing to follow a governments rule, and maintain an orderly society. A productive orderly society, without jobs and opportunities to sustain themselves, the people do turn to mob rule, and that mob can in fact do away with the common Roman systems of banking, commerce and international law. This does hurt Rome, so keeping nations productive and up to a certain standard of living, especially large and heavily populated nations are in Rome’s interests always.
China and India both desperately needed jobs, with out them, they did have the potential to turn into mobs, mobs that would no longer participate in the Roman system, and mobs that would no longer contribute anything of any value to the greater empire.
When this kind of breakdown happens you have something like Somalia and a few other African nations teetering towards a similar fate that don’t have the local resources to cheaply put people to work.
Then it requires charity to keep these nations going, usually just enough to let them starve slowly, since they have no resources locally that Rome and the empire needs or could use this doesn’t much matter to Rome.
Allowing a nation to degrade into a ungoverned mob that has resources of value to Rome is something Rome has an interest in preventing.
So the first part of the equation was transferring wealth away from America and jobs away from America to keep places like China and India stable and contributing and participating in the International system.
Now what the Patricians have learned over time about governing is two things.
If you have too many people in total poverty they will rebel.
If you have too large of an affluent middle class they will rebel.
What America discovered as far as it’s own governance in the late 60’s and early 70’s is that there was too large a middle class, that was affluent enough to where it could afford to dabble in grass roots politics and take up causes that were contrary to Government policy.
The civil rights movement, aided mostly by young affluent white people, the anti-war movement comprised of mostly young people from affluent families that had both money and time to be a vocal and visible and threatening presence to how the nation was being run.
The million hippies camped out for days at a time on the Washington Mall could have stormed the White House Fence and the Capitol building at any time.
That scared the heck out of the Government and the Nixon administration.
They were there for two reasons, they did not like how the government was working and the policies that it was formulating and they had enough money and leisure time to be able to congregate into a threatening mass of people that could have torn down the government establishment.
So there were two solutions, allow the people to set the agenda, and make them happy in that way, or start eliminating the middle class so no one would have the money and time to congregate and form a mob that could overthrow government or force it to change course.
This is where China and India came in, and our Roman controlled politicians who sold the idea of a global economy and America being a service society instead of a manufacturing society.
Once manufacturing was well under way being transferred to China, then the service jobs themselves were transferred to India.
The trick for Rome is balancing the affluence of populations so they are neither too poor, nor too affluent to where they would rebel against local rule, and the larger Roman system that binds it all together.
China did not cause this to happen, and India did not cause this to happen.
The Oligarchs caused this to happen as part of their own system of governance of the world, which they have their resources and investments spread throughout and need the entire population of the planet to more or less go along with that system.
Now yes this has all impacted American life but the truth is that without Americans buying Chinese and other foreign goods, and then seeking service for them through yet more foreign nations then the Oligarchs could have never gotten away with this, and China would have never benefited from it.
Part of what this thread is about is helping people learn that you yourself are aiding in the very things you now fear and have become a detriment to you.
People did this in part because they believed their politicians, in part because they wanted to save a dollar, especially when it wasn’t at their expense but some one else’s locally in the nation.
It didn’t matter to them if Stan in Wisconsin lost his job to Chang in China, just that they could save .39 cents on a doo-dad that once upon a time not only did American companies make better, but any American could have made.
Half the wealth China has earned from America could have stayed here by you buying a sewing machine and some basic woodworking tools and choosing to be self sufficient.
All of it could have stayed here if you refused to buy Chinese goods.
Understand that what is now a threat to your way of life as you perceive it on a national level is not really a threat to Rome that is orchestrating it all, and profiting off of it all, and controlling it all.
That’s the real what about China that has been discussed a few different times in the threat.
I am happy to answer anyone’s questions, and consider their theories, but it is time consuming, and takes me away from things I need to do to sustain myself in the world.
It is also frustrating when I know I have laid it out multiple times in the thread and I know that people are either not bothering to read the thread as a result or simply trying to take the thread off topic.
In short China can be defeated, the same way Rome can be defeated, and that only requires you not doing the things that aide it.
Who made China so strong, you made China so strong if you buy their goods.
The fact that all that money comes right back to America in the form of loans, displays it really is about keeping some people employed in other parts of the world, and more people poorer here.
In part by creating more debt than ever in your name through borrowing that money, and most of that money goes to the military to secure the resources for the Patricians and maintain International Order and Law under the Roman system, with another sizable portion going to welfare and charity programs to sustain the now increasingly poorer Americans as Rome continues it’s war on our Middle Class to make us more pliable, and controllable.
Having a greater understanding of these things is truly important, the thread is truly important, and that’s why it’s important to keep it on topic, keep the drama out of it, and focus not on symptoms or fears, but root causes and solutions.
Thanks.
[edit on 30/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]
reply to post by JR MacBeth
Things that tie in are topical, as long as the conversation on the micro don't then end up obscuring the macro.
Testimonies to faith are totally worthless to the topical discussion as are superstitious fears and petty religious rivalries.
If the poster can't produce the Gods in question, no they have no rellevance.
People simply use Gods as a means to justify actions, the Gods themselves if they exist certainly are not entering the fray, and well who could blame them for wanting to avoid such petty and convoluted bickering as goes on between the religious in regards to their doctrines.
The minute someone can display a lightening bolt cast by Zues tthat destroyed some icon, person, or edifice near and dear to them, I will be very interested and any other PROVABLE action by any other SUPPOSED Deity.
Where religion is topical to this thread is how it is used as a manipulation not the theocracy and superstitions woven into them.
Those belong in a dedicated religious discussion.
People protesting the thread and trying to derail it with religious discussion are in fact only displaying how valuable religion is as a tool of divide and conquer warfare and frankly I don't think we need any more evidence of that in this thread, it's been well established.
I would love to hear more about this religion in a topical discussion where it is the macro and fine attention can be paid to the micro.
As I have looked at every spin off thread that resulted from this thread.
However it's important to note, that not only are the few 'poison apple posters' not taking the time to present cognizant theories and tie in's here they aren't taking the time to try to present them elsewhere on ATS either by doing a thread.
The most incomplete of these theories the Stargate one that started all this Proto is a mean dictatorial Censor amongst a few posters who are tight nit friends, didn't even garner the support of that group of tight nit friends.
It quickly petered out and died.
So it really is largely about personal and religious politics that is still causing some people to just not appreciate what topical is.
This thread has been running for 127 days now with an everage of 14 replies a day.
It averages 3 flags a day.
Clearly it's not a half baked theory, clearly it's a note worthy thread, clearly I have tried my best to keep up with that ongoing demand, and as the author no one really understands the theory better than I do.
No one knows what I considered to be a factor and what I eliminated as a factor better than I do.
Anyone who has a real alternative theory post my name in the Title of your thread, post the name of the Thread in the title of your thread.
Declare the purpose is to create a discussion to debunk this thread, present the alternative theory that fills in those holes is someone really believes they are there, that better defines our true state of the world.
Have the courage, and focus, and dedication to do what I have done, and let's see.
Let's see it where it belongs though, lets see what ATS thinks of it, as a stand alone vehicle of enlightment and knowledge instead of nothing but petty and childish complaints.
I remain here to continute to answer all topical questions, discuss new information, and consider alternative theories, and have been throughout.
If I don't see how they fit, because someone could not make a valid rational logical and informative argument for them, well that really is on them not me.
Lets face it half the people who publish threads to ATS publish the opening piece and then never post in it again.
I haven't done that, I have been here throughout to engage anyone who can do it politely and topically and respectfully.
That is what really seems to be upsetting a few posters, yet delighting far more.
Just because these posters can't explain their theories and are afraid to try, doesn't mean I can't explain mine, and am afraid to try.
Thanks for not taking sides, and appreciating that the thread has a purpose and meaning.
I truly appreciate it. I know a lot of other posters who would like to see a drama free topical discussion continue do to.
[edit on 30/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]
The few times I felt the need to post was when I saw religion was becoming relevant to what was being discussed, or, as in the recent case, it appeared to me that "hints" were being dropped by someone who was about to launch into an "agenda". I may have been wrong about that, but in this particular case, I felt that my inclusion of Baha'i was in fact relevant to the thread, since it is the ONLY world religion currently promoted by the United Nations. By that virtue, it would tie into Rome, given the theory being discussed.
Things that tie in are topical, as long as the conversation on the micro don't then end up obscuring the macro.
Testimonies to faith are totally worthless to the topical discussion as are superstitious fears and petty religious rivalries.
If the poster can't produce the Gods in question, no they have no rellevance.
People simply use Gods as a means to justify actions, the Gods themselves if they exist certainly are not entering the fray, and well who could blame them for wanting to avoid such petty and convoluted bickering as goes on between the religious in regards to their doctrines.
The minute someone can display a lightening bolt cast by Zues tthat destroyed some icon, person, or edifice near and dear to them, I will be very interested and any other PROVABLE action by any other SUPPOSED Deity.
Where religion is topical to this thread is how it is used as a manipulation not the theocracy and superstitions woven into them.
Those belong in a dedicated religious discussion.
People protesting the thread and trying to derail it with religious discussion are in fact only displaying how valuable religion is as a tool of divide and conquer warfare and frankly I don't think we need any more evidence of that in this thread, it's been well established.
And by the way, Proto made his suggestion that I start a thread on it, so I see he must not be playing favorites, since he has said that over and over to lots of people, even when things were perhaps relevant. It can come down to simply "where" best to get into details. Obviously his "grand" theory thread is not the place for minutia, and I have no problem with that, why would I?
I would love to hear more about this religion in a topical discussion where it is the macro and fine attention can be paid to the micro.
As I have looked at every spin off thread that resulted from this thread.
However it's important to note, that not only are the few 'poison apple posters' not taking the time to present cognizant theories and tie in's here they aren't taking the time to try to present them elsewhere on ATS either by doing a thread.
The most incomplete of these theories the Stargate one that started all this Proto is a mean dictatorial Censor amongst a few posters who are tight nit friends, didn't even garner the support of that group of tight nit friends.
It quickly petered out and died.
So it really is largely about personal and religious politics that is still causing some people to just not appreciate what topical is.
This thread has been running for 127 days now with an everage of 14 replies a day.
It averages 3 flags a day.
Clearly it's not a half baked theory, clearly it's a note worthy thread, clearly I have tried my best to keep up with that ongoing demand, and as the author no one really understands the theory better than I do.
No one knows what I considered to be a factor and what I eliminated as a factor better than I do.
Anyone who has a real alternative theory post my name in the Title of your thread, post the name of the Thread in the title of your thread.
Declare the purpose is to create a discussion to debunk this thread, present the alternative theory that fills in those holes is someone really believes they are there, that better defines our true state of the world.
Have the courage, and focus, and dedication to do what I have done, and let's see.
Let's see it where it belongs though, lets see what ATS thinks of it, as a stand alone vehicle of enlightment and knowledge instead of nothing but petty and childish complaints.
I remain here to continute to answer all topical questions, discuss new information, and consider alternative theories, and have been throughout.
If I don't see how they fit, because someone could not make a valid rational logical and informative argument for them, well that really is on them not me.
Lets face it half the people who publish threads to ATS publish the opening piece and then never post in it again.
I haven't done that, I have been here throughout to engage anyone who can do it politely and topically and respectfully.
That is what really seems to be upsetting a few posters, yet delighting far more.
Just because these posters can't explain their theories and are afraid to try, doesn't mean I can't explain mine, and am afraid to try.
Thanks for not taking sides, and appreciating that the thread has a purpose and meaning.
I truly appreciate it. I know a lot of other posters who would like to see a drama free topical discussion continue do to.
[edit on 30/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]
Proto
I appreciate the thread and I think there is a lot of merit to it .
In fact this is the type of thread that makes ATS even better .
I appreciate the thread and I think there is a lot of merit to it .
In fact this is the type of thread that makes ATS even better .
Originally posted by 23432
Proto
I appreciate the thread and I think there is a lot of merit to it .
In fact this is the type of thread that makes ATS even better .
Thanks friend, I agree what makes ATS special is the conspiracies being discussed.
The discussion on News Topics and current and politcal events is great, but goes on anywhere.
It's the conspiracies that make ATS different and stand out in my humble opinion.
This is the mother of all conspiracies in my opinion, and a real passion.
It's nice to know so many people have enjoyed it.
Thanks for sharing.
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Hi Proto,
I found your thread incredibly interesting.
In fact, I found it on a number of other sites too.
I am sure you are aware of this.
I found this copy of your thread, totally word for word as well as all the same imagery etc on this website.
revelations-2012.com...
They even went to the trouble of creating a directory for each section.
What I noticed most was that they claimed copywrite for this material on the bottom of their page.
revelations-2012.com...
This site generates advertising revenue from what I can gather, and it seems that they are using your material to do that with.
I thought that I would alert you to this fact in order for you to take this issue up with those who are using your thread, word for word, as well as images, that may not belong to them.
Cheers.
Hi Proto,
I found your thread incredibly interesting.
In fact, I found it on a number of other sites too.
I am sure you are aware of this.
I found this copy of your thread, totally word for word as well as all the same imagery etc on this website.
revelations-2012.com...
They even went to the trouble of creating a directory for each section.
What I noticed most was that they claimed copywrite for this material on the bottom of their page.
Copyright © 2008, 2009, 2010 Revelations-2012.com. All rights reserved. Click here for permission to republish or make other authorized use of this material. Contact the Online editor to report any problems with the site or to send your comments and suggestions.
revelations-2012.com...
This site generates advertising revenue from what I can gather, and it seems that they are using your material to do that with.
I thought that I would alert you to this fact in order for you to take this issue up with those who are using your thread, word for word, as well as images, that may not belong to them.
Cheers.
reply to post by atlasastro
On the very last page on the Revelations-2012 Site you will find this
Revelations-2012 Vatican
The copywrite information you are referring to is at the bottom of their standard page form.
I have been in touch with this site owner numerous times not just about the placement of the credit but also because he mixed him some information from another ATS Poster who has posted to this thread and others regarding Rome and especially the Vatican and that member is JackFlap.
He also lifted some graphics posted by Mick1234 and included those too.
I have asked him to credit the other ATS Members who he lifted things from and incorporated into his version but has basically said its too much work for him to do the edit, and to determine which information he lifted from other members here, and to cite them as well too.
They feel that just that brief mention at the very end of the article they have split into 8 parts is adequate.
I would very much like to see the other members who contributed in part without their knowledge to the Revelations-2012 site be properly credited.
I am happy that the Opening Piece has been republished by a number of sites throughout the world as it really is a very important thing to have out there and people to consider.
My Rome thread, my Tax Day thread, and my Skull and Bones Health Care thread have all been widely republished on the Internet sometimes they give me credit and sometimes they don't.
I have found sites through Google in Japanese that detail this thread, sites in Sweedish that detail the thread, it sure has gotten around even being republished in different languages and prompting lively discussions in other parts of the world.
It truly displays the power of ATS as a broadcast platform.
I appreciate you bringing it to my attention, and your interest in the subject.
Thanks.
On the very last page on the Revelations-2012 Site you will find this
All Credit for this short history of Rome must go to ProtoplasmicTraveler@ Abovetopsecret.com
Many Thanks
Revelations-2012 Vatican
The copywrite information you are referring to is at the bottom of their standard page form.
I have been in touch with this site owner numerous times not just about the placement of the credit but also because he mixed him some information from another ATS Poster who has posted to this thread and others regarding Rome and especially the Vatican and that member is JackFlap.
He also lifted some graphics posted by Mick1234 and included those too.
I have asked him to credit the other ATS Members who he lifted things from and incorporated into his version but has basically said its too much work for him to do the edit, and to determine which information he lifted from other members here, and to cite them as well too.
They feel that just that brief mention at the very end of the article they have split into 8 parts is adequate.
I would very much like to see the other members who contributed in part without their knowledge to the Revelations-2012 site be properly credited.
I am happy that the Opening Piece has been republished by a number of sites throughout the world as it really is a very important thing to have out there and people to consider.
My Rome thread, my Tax Day thread, and my Skull and Bones Health Care thread have all been widely republished on the Internet sometimes they give me credit and sometimes they don't.
I have found sites through Google in Japanese that detail this thread, sites in Sweedish that detail the thread, it sure has gotten around even being republished in different languages and prompting lively discussions in other parts of the world.
It truly displays the power of ATS as a broadcast platform.
I appreciate you bringing it to my attention, and your interest in the subject.
Thanks.
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
No problem.
I read your thread a while ago and was surprised stumbled on this site whilst researching some other topics that are also posted to the Revelations site.
I have seen people lift work from ATS before, but they usually give credit. I have seen this done with threads or blogs and forums but they usually credit the author.
I actually tried to find some archived stuff to double check, sorry to sound like I was checking on you.
It was the claim of copywrite that made me bring this up and the fact the site has ads on it, seemed a bit rich using other work.
Atleast i got to re-read a lot of this great material again. Thanks for the reply. I also mailed the site contact.
No problem.
I read your thread a while ago and was surprised stumbled on this site whilst researching some other topics that are also posted to the Revelations site.
I have seen people lift work from ATS before, but they usually give credit. I have seen this done with threads or blogs and forums but they usually credit the author.
I actually tried to find some archived stuff to double check, sorry to sound like I was checking on you.
It was the claim of copywrite that made me bring this up and the fact the site has ads on it, seemed a bit rich using other work.
Atleast i got to re-read a lot of this great material again. Thanks for the reply. I also mailed the site contact.
reply to post by atlasastro
Thanks again, and I do appreciate your interest and you contacting the Revelations-2012 site.
I have vigorously tried to see that ATS for it's sake is properly credited for the source of this Original Piece and myself to a lesser extent too.
Not so much because I desire the lime light or recognition but because I don't want the message distorted by people mixing or weaving other elements into it like the 2012 site has, or those site owners editorializing it in a way like it is their own, and drawing a different conclusion for the sake of their own agenda.
I was amused and frankly both flattered and disgusted when a Texas Man with a PHD and a website and a radio show, lifted my Skull and Bones Health Care Thread to use as a pitch for his own alternative medicine sales.
People distorting what I write about and share for the sake of profit or some other agenda is my number one motivation in pursuing these people.
There is a reason I don't write things to sell them, or to sell something, and that's because you are no longer doing humanity any honest form of favor if you are trying to profit off it in any way shape or form.
So I do very much appreciate it when people bring these sites to my attention.
ATS is pretty good about helping to pursue them, in part because once you publish something on ATS you have effectively given them artistic license and copy right priveleges through the terms of service agreement.
Springer has been very attentive and helpful in pursuing some of these other sites and ATS means business, both in regards to any ATS member that steals other authors works and doesn't attribute and credit that author, they will absolutely ban you in a heartbeat for doing that, and making sure people who author original works on ATS get credit for them when they are lifted by other sites.
What I have personally found shocking though is some of the sites out there that steal these kinds of Original Pieces who are supposedly dedicated to helping people attain awareness and helping the world to evolve far to often respond with 'too bad go screw yourself' when you first contact them to inquire why they aren't crediting ATS and the original Author.
It makes you wonder whether they are really interested in saving the world and making it a better place, or just saving themselves and enriching their own life by pretending to wanting to do the former.
It's such people that have positively convinced me, the best thing for me to do is publish my work for free, right here on a reputable and well run site like ATS.
Thanks again.
Thanks again, and I do appreciate your interest and you contacting the Revelations-2012 site.
I have vigorously tried to see that ATS for it's sake is properly credited for the source of this Original Piece and myself to a lesser extent too.
Not so much because I desire the lime light or recognition but because I don't want the message distorted by people mixing or weaving other elements into it like the 2012 site has, or those site owners editorializing it in a way like it is their own, and drawing a different conclusion for the sake of their own agenda.
I was amused and frankly both flattered and disgusted when a Texas Man with a PHD and a website and a radio show, lifted my Skull and Bones Health Care Thread to use as a pitch for his own alternative medicine sales.
People distorting what I write about and share for the sake of profit or some other agenda is my number one motivation in pursuing these people.
There is a reason I don't write things to sell them, or to sell something, and that's because you are no longer doing humanity any honest form of favor if you are trying to profit off it in any way shape or form.
So I do very much appreciate it when people bring these sites to my attention.
ATS is pretty good about helping to pursue them, in part because once you publish something on ATS you have effectively given them artistic license and copy right priveleges through the terms of service agreement.
Springer has been very attentive and helpful in pursuing some of these other sites and ATS means business, both in regards to any ATS member that steals other authors works and doesn't attribute and credit that author, they will absolutely ban you in a heartbeat for doing that, and making sure people who author original works on ATS get credit for them when they are lifted by other sites.
What I have personally found shocking though is some of the sites out there that steal these kinds of Original Pieces who are supposedly dedicated to helping people attain awareness and helping the world to evolve far to often respond with 'too bad go screw yourself' when you first contact them to inquire why they aren't crediting ATS and the original Author.
It makes you wonder whether they are really interested in saving the world and making it a better place, or just saving themselves and enriching their own life by pretending to wanting to do the former.
It's such people that have positively convinced me, the best thing for me to do is publish my work for free, right here on a reputable and well run site like ATS.
Thanks again.
I'd like to appplaud you for a fascinating read. You've constructed a worthy conspiracy narrative here.
Saying that, I'd like to engage you on some points since you have presented this is a form of alternative history to consolidate your theory. I've only read your original posts on the first page of this massive thread so far so apologies if these questions have already been addressed
Why would any post-deluvian civilization start with Troy? You've already mentioned Babylonian myths regarding a flood and the beginnings of Babylonia/Sumer are antecedents by a margin of thousands of years to the known origin of Troy as modern archaeology presently knows. Sumer surely would have been the main repository of any possible leftover antedeluvian culture before all others I would have thought.
Again, why exactly Troy? The legends you speak of told by the Greeks of Atlantis were apparently given to them by Solon, Plato's ancestor, who communicated them to via his two famous dialogues where the legend of Atlantic was borne. These legends were allegedly given to Solon by Egyptian priests, so the fabric of the myth is much older than any Greek city-state.
This is quite a claim. Have you anything to back it up? References to works you have read that lead you to believe that Caesar survived? After all, this does seem to be a core component to your theory.
It seems that Constantine was born in Naissus, what is modern-day Niš, Serbia, nearly a thousand miles from where Troy would have been. The Trojans weren't his ancestors. Modern day Constantinople, Istanbul; is situated about 350 miles from where Troy would have been.
The Roman Emperor Augustus set up a city on the site of Troy that Constantinople, ironically as it regards your point, supplanted it and the city was abandoned.
Not to sound like a know it all, this paragraph's information I looked up on teh interwebs as I was sure initially that Constantine and Constantinople had nothing whatsoever to do with the Trojans or Troy.
Anyway, I hope that you don't take this as unconstructive criticism, I don't fully agree with what you are putting forward here, but the fact of the Roman system of law being the backbone of modern western civilization is a given.
A conspiracy stretching back to Troy I'm not so sure about though...
[edit on 4/9/10 by Extant Taxon]
Saying that, I'd like to engage you on some points since you have presented this is a form of alternative history to consolidate your theory. I've only read your original posts on the first page of this massive thread so far so apologies if these questions have already been addressed
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The Plan for a One World Government and New World Order.
Legend tells us that a great flood had swept the land. Different cultures and different religions tell of this great flood, from the Bible and Noah’s Ark, to the Babylonians and their Creation Stories, to the Maya and their hieroglyphs.
While we might never know what caused this flood, it is likely safe to assume this flood occurred, whether it was the poles reversing themselves because of a completion of the Galaxy’s orbit, as many believe will occur again on 2012, or and Ice Age melting and flooding the lands, or a displeased God unhappy with the people and their ways are all speculations. None of us were there, none of us can really know for sure, because none of us were there, but it’s likely based on so much archeological and scripture reference that at some point several thousand years ago humanity suffered this apocalypse and had to start all over again.
Where did it start, it started in Troy.
Why would any post-deluvian civilization start with Troy? You've already mentioned Babylonian myths regarding a flood and the beginnings of Babylonia/Sumer are antecedents by a margin of thousands of years to the known origin of Troy as modern archaeology presently knows. Sumer surely would have been the main repository of any possible leftover antedeluvian culture before all others I would have thought.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Its founders likely were survivors of the great flood, and knew of the wonders of the World before the flood. Legends of Atlantis, a mythical, ancient and advanced civilization spring to mind. Legends later told of by the Greeks, who would come to play a central role, in how events of the new civilizations would unfold.
Again, why exactly Troy? The legends you speak of told by the Greeks of Atlantis were apparently given to them by Solon, Plato's ancestor, who communicated them to via his two famous dialogues where the legend of Atlantic was borne. These legends were allegedly given to Solon by Egyptian priests, so the fabric of the myth is much older than any Greek city-state.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Eventually Caesars rivals would conspire to kill him, and on the 15th of March, they attempted to do just that.
As his Patrician attackers, not used to the mortal combat fled the Senate after stabbing him and slashing him numerous times, they failed to notice that Caesar had not died.
His trusted General and friend Mark Anthony who was left unscathed in the plot, with the help of Caesar’s nephew Octavian, destined to eventually become Augustus Caesar and Rome’s first life long dictator and Lepidus another General spirited Caesar away to safety out of the city, to the tiny Roman State of Seborga.
Seborga was a remote place, and Rome’s holiest place too. It’s hill recessed and hidden by the rugged coast was considered to be Mt. Olympus home to the Gods, priests and augers were it’s only inhabitants, and Caesar was Rome’s high priest. They would guard his presence carefully the rest of his life.
Back in Rome Anthony would stage a mock funeral of another man’s shrouded corpse, whipping the crowd into a frenzy of angry supporters of Caesar who had long loved his generosity.
To understand more, we must understand more about three important city-states, Troy, Athens and Sparta.
This is quite a claim. Have you anything to back it up? References to works you have read that lead you to believe that Caesar survived? After all, this does seem to be a core component to your theory.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Constantine was prepared to put the next portion of the plan into action, and would return to his people’s roots, back to Troy to begin formalizing it all. Constantine would build a new capitol where Troy once stood to celebrate the rule of God that his Trojan ancestors so favored.
It seems that Constantine was born in Naissus, what is modern-day Niš, Serbia, nearly a thousand miles from where Troy would have been. The Trojans weren't his ancestors. Modern day Constantinople, Istanbul; is situated about 350 miles from where Troy would have been.
The Roman Emperor Augustus set up a city on the site of Troy that Constantinople, ironically as it regards your point, supplanted it and the city was abandoned.
Not to sound like a know it all, this paragraph's information I looked up on teh interwebs as I was sure initially that Constantine and Constantinople had nothing whatsoever to do with the Trojans or Troy.
Anyway, I hope that you don't take this as unconstructive criticism, I don't fully agree with what you are putting forward here, but the fact of the Roman system of law being the backbone of modern western civilization is a given.
A conspiracy stretching back to Troy I'm not so sure about though...
[edit on 4/9/10 by Extant Taxon]
reply to post by Extant Taxon
Let’s postulate a moment and speculate on the following. A nation, religion, or race of individuals through some fault of its own, or negligence of its own triggers a world wide cataclysm that wipes out almost all human life on the planet save for a few isolated pockets.
Now if were a surviving member of that nation, religion, or race responsible for such a calamity would you want to politically accept the blame for it moving forward, or reassign the blame for it, or reason for it, to distance yourself from responsibility, culpability or negligence.
Our assumption is that lying and political propaganda is a relatively modern invention, but the truth is, it seems to be as old as the human population.
So when it comes to a few surviving accounts handed down from generation to generation often through Rome even though it may have dealt with Egypt, Babylon, Troy or Greece or Britannia can we really assume that these accounts were credible.
Could they have been works of political propaganda, a means to obscure what really happened, a means to deflect it onto another nation, religion or race, or pure unadulterated fiction?
When it comes to Atlantis and Lemuria most people consider these to be fictions.
We may never know if there ever was an Atlantis, or even if there ever was a great flood, or even where the oldest non-tribal civilization sprang up.
Ruins in Guatemala rainforests so thick as to be nearly impenetrable on the ground are still yielding massive ancient cities. What’s buried beneath shifting dessert sands and sunken below ever shifting coast lines is hard to really quantify, and qualify.
We do know in our own society that coastal building is prevalent, so what lies buried beneath the ocean floor off our coasts?
What we have to basically understanding the ancient world as is all a prelude politically speaking to the world wide imposition of a Roman system of law and Judean-Christian teachings.
It comes to us through very few accounts, and they come to us often through records and accounts that long ago fell into Roman hands.
So a good deal of the premise of the opening thread is that these accounts might not be valid.
Doesn’t matter how many books one man’s account is republished in, it’s still one man’s account.
When that account was passed down to us through the Greco-Roman, Judean-Christian system, that always seeks to validate and justify itself and perpetuate its rule, it becomes in my humble opinion the suspect account of one man published over and over again by various authors and researchers.
Much of our shared reality and understanding of the world, and indeed Rome’s power itself stems from people being taught to form a belief that these accounts are sacrosanct and absolute, and beyond reproach and infallible.
Who this does serve the most is Rome.
Yet my own personal investigation which has included interacting with people well placed and deep within the cabal points to Troy and the Trojan Gods as being the primary influence of the actual patrician elite.
It is important to consider that in the ancient world there were not just different gods associated with different aspects of life, but gods who often filled a niche need for certain classes of people.
A god for slaves might not be one the patricians or warriors would pay any homage to, a god for warriors might not be one that slaves or patricians paid any homage too.
My theories are largely based on the belief that we are in large part a planet of free range slaves. Naturally the patricians would choose a god, that was aimed at appeasing slaves even while it promoted the attributes of what would make a good slave, not by saying doing this, this and that will make you a good slave, but by doing this, this and that will make you a good person in general.
Since the Christ Cult basically was a slave’s religion when it entered Rome and stayed that way for a number of centuries I think we might have our answer right there.
Since the Judean God alleged to sire Christ laid out in his ten commandments rules for treating slaves, and rendering the first fruits back to the temples and god (taxation) and promised to drive their enemies before them so they could smite them and place them into slavery, then yes what we see despite how it is billed, is a Slave and War oriented God that wants the Temples (State) to be stocked with the finest and first of what the people can provide.
I believe much of the mythology in relation to Judean-Christianity is promoted as not mythology like every other now extinct religion is seen once Rome imposed this system to a state of absolute dominance, but instead is purported as fact that creates our shared reality.
One of slavery, one of war, one of taxation.
So I find all the surviving accounts suspect as a result, designed in part to promote, and preserve this fiction that sets up and justifies the Roman Power Structure, the divine right of kings of the absolute power of the state over the person.
So it’s really not that hard once you discard those very potential dogmas to then look towards other avenues.
Since Rome’s actual roots are Trojan and Troy was also a pre-Bronze Age civilization then yes it very much becomes a very viable and possible alternate especially for me based on information I have received through sources within the cabal I do consider credible.
We have discovered in the thread that a good bit of the Trojan pantheon of Gods still shows up in the modern world and indeed all throughout the ages, most notable the god Apollo, who is not just the God of Sheppard and flocks (A huge part of Christianity) but also the God of prophecy (a huge part of Christianity) also the god of muses and writers ( a huge part of the propaganda apparatus) and also a sun god a huge part of Christianity and other religions.
So yes there are a lot of tie-ins there that we explore in great depth throughout the thread.
Well worth the read in my humble opinion. Thanks for posting and asking.
Let’s postulate a moment and speculate on the following. A nation, religion, or race of individuals through some fault of its own, or negligence of its own triggers a world wide cataclysm that wipes out almost all human life on the planet save for a few isolated pockets.
Now if were a surviving member of that nation, religion, or race responsible for such a calamity would you want to politically accept the blame for it moving forward, or reassign the blame for it, or reason for it, to distance yourself from responsibility, culpability or negligence.
Our assumption is that lying and political propaganda is a relatively modern invention, but the truth is, it seems to be as old as the human population.
So when it comes to a few surviving accounts handed down from generation to generation often through Rome even though it may have dealt with Egypt, Babylon, Troy or Greece or Britannia can we really assume that these accounts were credible.
Could they have been works of political propaganda, a means to obscure what really happened, a means to deflect it onto another nation, religion or race, or pure unadulterated fiction?
When it comes to Atlantis and Lemuria most people consider these to be fictions.
We may never know if there ever was an Atlantis, or even if there ever was a great flood, or even where the oldest non-tribal civilization sprang up.
Ruins in Guatemala rainforests so thick as to be nearly impenetrable on the ground are still yielding massive ancient cities. What’s buried beneath shifting dessert sands and sunken below ever shifting coast lines is hard to really quantify, and qualify.
We do know in our own society that coastal building is prevalent, so what lies buried beneath the ocean floor off our coasts?
What we have to basically understanding the ancient world as is all a prelude politically speaking to the world wide imposition of a Roman system of law and Judean-Christian teachings.
It comes to us through very few accounts, and they come to us often through records and accounts that long ago fell into Roman hands.
So a good deal of the premise of the opening thread is that these accounts might not be valid.
Doesn’t matter how many books one man’s account is republished in, it’s still one man’s account.
When that account was passed down to us through the Greco-Roman, Judean-Christian system, that always seeks to validate and justify itself and perpetuate its rule, it becomes in my humble opinion the suspect account of one man published over and over again by various authors and researchers.
Much of our shared reality and understanding of the world, and indeed Rome’s power itself stems from people being taught to form a belief that these accounts are sacrosanct and absolute, and beyond reproach and infallible.
Who this does serve the most is Rome.
Yet my own personal investigation which has included interacting with people well placed and deep within the cabal points to Troy and the Trojan Gods as being the primary influence of the actual patrician elite.
It is important to consider that in the ancient world there were not just different gods associated with different aspects of life, but gods who often filled a niche need for certain classes of people.
A god for slaves might not be one the patricians or warriors would pay any homage to, a god for warriors might not be one that slaves or patricians paid any homage too.
My theories are largely based on the belief that we are in large part a planet of free range slaves. Naturally the patricians would choose a god, that was aimed at appeasing slaves even while it promoted the attributes of what would make a good slave, not by saying doing this, this and that will make you a good slave, but by doing this, this and that will make you a good person in general.
Since the Christ Cult basically was a slave’s religion when it entered Rome and stayed that way for a number of centuries I think we might have our answer right there.
Since the Judean God alleged to sire Christ laid out in his ten commandments rules for treating slaves, and rendering the first fruits back to the temples and god (taxation) and promised to drive their enemies before them so they could smite them and place them into slavery, then yes what we see despite how it is billed, is a Slave and War oriented God that wants the Temples (State) to be stocked with the finest and first of what the people can provide.
I believe much of the mythology in relation to Judean-Christianity is promoted as not mythology like every other now extinct religion is seen once Rome imposed this system to a state of absolute dominance, but instead is purported as fact that creates our shared reality.
One of slavery, one of war, one of taxation.
So I find all the surviving accounts suspect as a result, designed in part to promote, and preserve this fiction that sets up and justifies the Roman Power Structure, the divine right of kings of the absolute power of the state over the person.
So it’s really not that hard once you discard those very potential dogmas to then look towards other avenues.
Since Rome’s actual roots are Trojan and Troy was also a pre-Bronze Age civilization then yes it very much becomes a very viable and possible alternate especially for me based on information I have received through sources within the cabal I do consider credible.
We have discovered in the thread that a good bit of the Trojan pantheon of Gods still shows up in the modern world and indeed all throughout the ages, most notable the god Apollo, who is not just the God of Sheppard and flocks (A huge part of Christianity) but also the God of prophecy (a huge part of Christianity) also the god of muses and writers ( a huge part of the propaganda apparatus) and also a sun god a huge part of Christianity and other religions.
So yes there are a lot of tie-ins there that we explore in great depth throughout the thread.
Well worth the read in my humble opinion. Thanks for posting and asking.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Extant Taxon
When it comes to Atlantis and Lemuria most people consider these to be fictions.
We may never know if there ever was an Atlantis, or even if there ever was a great flood, or even where the oldest non-tribal civilization sprang up.
Many modern archaeologists lean toward the legend of the Atlantis and its destruction being of the parallel story of the Minoan civilization, which was destroyed by a tsunami. This would fit better with your Grecian origins of the NWO perhaps.
When people discuss the great flood it is often perceived to be a much wider, perhaps even global catastrophe, but if it was more localised then possibilities are opened.
The wave that destroyed Atlantis
Saying that this mysterius cabal you are allegedly in contact with assert the legitimacy of your Troy information leaves my question in limbo however. There's no way of progressing there.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Who this does serve the most is Rome.
I don't see Rome as the main player geopolitically any more.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
My theories are largely based on the belief that we are in large part a planet of free range slaves.
I can agree with this.
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Since Rome’s actual roots are Trojan and Troy was also a pre-Bronze Age civilization then yes it very much becomes a very viable and possible alternate especially for me based on information I have received through sources within the cabal I do consider credible.
Again, can't really go anywhere with this.
Anyway, interesting narrative here. I'll leave you to it.
reply to post by Extant Taxon
There is no basis whatsoever to the claims that G.J. Caesar survived the assassination and was moved to Seborga. In fact, googling the keywords 'caesar survived seborga' links this thread as the first hit. It would be an interesting theory if there was even a shred of evidence to support the story, but no, its just fiction, made up to fit the fantasy.
There is no basis whatsoever to the claims that G.J. Caesar survived the assassination and was moved to Seborga. In fact, googling the keywords 'caesar survived seborga' links this thread as the first hit. It would be an interesting theory if there was even a shred of evidence to support the story, but no, its just fiction, made up to fit the fantasy.
reply to post by serbsta
I'm also unaware of any supporting evidence that would point to such a thing, though I was hoping Protoplasmic Traveller would answer.
Anway, this is ATS. Conspiracy theory as mythology predominates. Nothing wrong with that as long as you take it as such.
I'm also unaware of any supporting evidence that would point to such a thing, though I was hoping Protoplasmic Traveller would answer.
Anway, this is ATS. Conspiracy theory as mythology predominates. Nothing wrong with that as long as you take it as such.
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