All Roads Lead to Rome

reply to post by Josephus23

...Labor is being liquidated and our wealth is being debased, but we don't think so because inflation makes us think that we have more!!...

"our wealth is being debased, but we don't think so because inflation"

If you are not already aware of them, here are some easy proofs of that:

In 1976 A typical American CEO earned 36 times as much as the average worker. By 2008 the average CEO pay increased to 369 times that of the average worker. timelinesdb.com...

The Great American Disaster: How Much Gold Remains In Fort Knox?

The US dollar of August, 1971 is as of 2009 worth just over 18 cents,

according to the Inflation Calculator. Thus, in purchasing power, the dollar has lost over 80% in the past 39 years.

Only foreigners were legally able to turn in their US dollars and get gold from the US Government from 1934 to 1971. August 15 of that year closed off that last power of convertibility.


...The peak amount of gold held in Fort Knox reached 701 million ounces of gold. This was in 1949. This amount equaled 69.9% of all the gold in the world...

From then until 1972, at least 75% of official US gold left the nation in exchange for paper dollars which can be printed at will....

The only audit that has ever been done of the gold inside Ft Knox was done days after Dwight Eisenhower became President in January of 1953...

The central problem was that it wasn't much of an audit.

If the audit was accurate, the fact remains that almost 80% of it went overseas in the coming years. If the audit was not accurate, the amount of gold lost could have been even more.

The shocking admission Ft Knox holds very little good delivery gold was made to Mr. Durell by the chief official of the General Accounting Office (GAO). This happened a few months after the September 1974 tour.

www.lewrockwell.com...

WHO owns what gold is still left in Ft Knox??? Seems 66% of Germany's gold (3,400 tons???) resides in Fort Knox!

Jim Rickards lays out a plan to commandeer Germany’s and all foreign depositors of sovereign gold at the New York Fed as currency wars heat up... maxkeiser.com...

For those thinking "gold has no value as money" China has built its own "Fort Knox" and is amassing gold:

The Wall Street Journal reports Friday that gold prices are soaring to record highs as a new powerful factor has emerged as a driver of that rally — China.
 
According to the Journal, China is now buying huge amounts of gold ...
key data released by China’s state-run Xinhua news agency showing that China imported 209.7 metric tons of gold in the first 10 months of this year. That’s a five hundred percent increase compared to the same period in 2009... www.moneynews.com...

Jun 18, 2010 ... As the world's largest producer of the metal, China often buys gold from its own mines and doesn't report those sales publicly... www.businessinsider.com...

The People's Bank of China(PBOC) recommended yesterday that 1 billion Chinese consider buying gold as a hedge against inflation ; blogs.forbes.com...

China is also "amassing" another very important resource - ENERGY!

China is now building two power plants every week, says the UK's top climate change envoy: news.bbc.co.uk...

China is building 500 coal plants over the next ten years: windfarms.wordpress.com...

China to build 60 nuclear reactors over next decade
China plans to build six nuclear power plants a year over the next decade, increasing its nuclear power capacity to more than 70 gigawatts by 2020, according to a top official of a nuclear power company. www.asahi.com...

The MSM (owned by the bankers) is busy blowing the Japanese disaster all out of proportion to reinstill fear of nuclear. This plus more inflation/no gold pretty much means the "west" will be left in the dust by China.

I had hoped that Thorium nuclear might give us a bit of a chance but it seems they SLAMMED that door in our faces. Some of the fear mongers on ATS are even suggesting we evacuate Japan!

Makes me almost believe HAARP can cause Earthquakes...

This is some on-site comments from a couple of guys in Japan living close to the reactors. It shows the reality is a heck of a lot different than what is reported: www.abovetopsecret.com...

As John Tofflemire who lives in Tokyo says:

....This is the kind of behavior, if it goes on much longer, threatens to create a massive, unnecessary humanitarian crisis, behavior spawned and fanned by the irresponsible western press. I can tell you that Japanese people aware of the fear mongering over the Fukushima nuclear plants in the western media are very angry at this coverage.

SOURCE

WUWT has some good discussions by scientific types here:
wattsupwiththat.com...

An earlier thread with some great discussion by nuclear professionals: wattsupwiththat.com...

References:
truenorthist.wordpress.com...
www.world-nuclear.org...
mitnse.com...
ansnuclearcafe.org...


www.lenntech.com...


A Chronology of Nuclear History

Reintroducing Thorium: Chem & Eng News

thorium-nuclear-energys-clean-little-secret

The Basics
.... This thorium fuel cycle carries with it a number of important natural properties some of which contrast sharply with the uranium fuel cycle:

-At no point in the thorium cycle – from mining to waste – can fuel or waste products be used as bomb material in any way;

-The thorium fuel cycle is inherently incapable of causing a meltdown according to the laws of physics; in nuclear reactor parlance, the fuel is said to contain passive safety features;

-Thorium-based fuels do not require conversion or enrichment – two essential phases of the uranium fuel cycle that are exceedingly expensive, and create proliferation risk;

-Thorium fuel cycle waste material consists mostly of 233-uranium, which can be recycled as fuel (with minor actinide content decreased 90-100%, and with plutonium content eliminated entirely);
-Thorium-based fuels are significantly energy efficient;

-Thorium fuel cycle waste material is radiotoxic for tens of years, as opposed to the thousands of years with today’s standard radioactive waste;

-Thorium fuel designs exist today that can be used in all existing nuclear reactors;

-Thorium exists in greater abundance and higher concentrations than uranium making it much less expensive and environmentally-unobtrusive to mine;


These facts have many serious implications for the efficiency and security of energy delivery in the United States, and the world. SOURCE

reply to post by Josephus23

It is disturbing how those workers are being railroaded.....

I just hope they are not being "Railroaded" in to protests =>RIOTS => Violence => Martial law.

We already know TPTB has set-up all the "laws" and EO's for a mass Civil Disobedience Scenario.

Agent Provocateur Cops Caught Red Handed Attempting To Incite Violence


We also know of the ACORN-Union ties. and I sure do not trust ACORN, see: epionline.org...

I had to do a bit of looking but here is what I found:

ACORN Rising Internationally
John McCusker, The Times-Picayune archiveWade Rathke

March 26, 2011 - ACORN is defunct, but ACORN International, a separate organization, is thriving, according to a message to supporters from Wade Rathke, founder of ACORN and chief organizer for ACORN International....

I then went for the good stuff, WHO is funding/funded ACORN because that is who actually calls the tune. It is some VERY interesting reading:
Remember the Fabian Society/Carnegie/Rockefeller/Morgan/Ford connections:

The Tides Foundation is the "mixer" used so we do not know who donated to what.

Carnegie Corporation of New York
Tides Foundation & Tides Center ...................$3,088,667.00 - 1992 – 2005
ACORN................................................................ $50,000.00 - 1996 – 1996

Rockefeller Brothers Fund
Tides Foundation & Tides Center ....................$2,879,900.00 - 1993 – 2005
Friends of the Constitution ...................................$15,000.00 - 2000 – 2000
ACORN .................................................................$10,000.00 - 2002 – 2002

Rockefeller Family Fund
Tides Foundation & Tides Center .....................$1,225,000.00 - 1991 – 2004
ACORN ..................................................... ............$25,000.00 - 1998 – 1998
Friends of the Constitution ....................................$15,000.00 - 2001 – 2001

Rockefeller Foundation
Tides Foundation & Tides Center .............. .......$4,543,775.00 - 1993 – 2005

Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors
Tides Foundation & Tides Center .........................$819,300.00 - 1997 – 2004

J. P. Morgan Charitable Trust
ACORN ..................................................................$302,500.00 - 1998 – 1998
Tides Foundation & Tides Center $...........................60,000.00 - 1993 – 1996

Ford Foundation
Tides Foundation & Tides Center .....................$71,316,439.00 - 1989 – 2006
ACORN ..................................................................$200,000.00 - 2003 – 2003

Pew Charitable Trusts - [Sun Oil Co.)
Tides Foundation & Tides Center ....................$140,465,400.00 - 1990 – 2005
ACORN ....................................................................$45,000.00 - 1988 – 1988

Turner Foundation
Tides Foundation & Tides Center .......................$1,925,308.00 - 1994 – 2002
.
Joyce Foundation
Tides Foundation & Tides Center....................... $2,772,260.00 - 1988 – 2003

Mary Reynolds Babcock Foundation
ACORN ..................................................................$168,750.00 - 1998 – 2002
Tides Foundation & Tides Center ............................$35,000.00 - 1991 – 1991

Bank of America Foundation
Tides Foundation & Tides Center ...........................$132,172.00 - 1996 – 2005

Chase Manhattan Foundation - Only listing
Tides Foundation & Tides Center ............................$12,500.00 - 1998 – 1998

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
Tides Foundation & Tides Center ........................$3,262,095.00 - 1993 – 2001

U.S. Department of the Interior
Tides Foundation & Tides Center ..............................$44,500.00 - 1998 – 1999
Source: activistcash.com...

WHAT THE HECK is the departments of the US Gov. doing giving to a "mixer" foundation?????



Then we come to the good stuff. I selected some interesting "groups" the Tides Foundation gives to as well. One of the biggest grantees is Catalist???

If you are wondering who “Catalist” is And note they are one of the few groups WITHOUT an website listed in the actual pdf...

Helping Non-Profits maximize precious resources, mobilize supporters and influence policy debates...

Giving organizations the tools and data to reach voters, build advocacy campaigns and creatively reach new supporters....

Serving the Progressive Community

Clean and current data for 265 million individuals
Cutting-edge software tools that enable you to query, analyze, visualize and export lists
Data-mining and analytics products to pinpoint the individuals that you need to reach
Expert staff from diverse technical, civic and political backgrounds

NO WONDER Tides Foundation gives them so much money and hides who they are!!!!

Tides Foundation 2006 Grantee List: www.tides.org...

Center for Third World Organizing www.ctwo.org....................$17,000.00
Center for Community Change www.communitychange.org....$483,000.00
Catalist...................................................................................$1,025,000.00

ACORN Institute.......................................................................$412,250.00
Acorn Internatational.................................................................$20,000.00
ACORN Living Wage Resource Center.......................................$20,000.00
Missouri ACORN........................................................................$40,000.00
Massachusetts ACORN................................................................$2,500.00
Florida ACORN..........................................................................$42,500.00
Arizona ACORN.........................................................................$12,500.00

Miami Workers' Center..............................................................$30,000.00
Georgia Living Wage Coalition.................................................$20,000.00
Mississippi Workers' Center for Human Rights...........................$5,000.00

New Orleans Worker Justice Coalition........................................$5,000.00
New York Jobs with Justice........................................................$15,000.00
New Alliance Organizing Project..............................................$26,000.00
National Organizers Alliance......................................................$6,000.00
National Lawyers Guild...............................................................$2,500.00
National Immigration Project of the Nat'l Lawyers Guild.........$2,000.00
National Employment Law Project............................................$21,730.00
National Accountability Group...................................................$30,753.00
National Housing Law Project......................................................$1,000.00

National Asso. for the Advancement of Colored People.............$26,581.80
NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund............................ $50,350.00
NAACP National Voter Fund.......................................................$22,000.00
Mississippi State Conference NAACP...........................................$18,550.00
Equal Justice America....................................................................$1,000.00
Equal Rights Advocates.............................................................$165,000.00
Equality Now.............................................................................$112,020.00
American Institute for Social Justice.........................................$450,000.00

Center for Constitutional Rights................................................$62,818.20
Missouri Progressive Vote Coalition...........................................$80,000.00
League of Conservation Voters Education Fund......................$371,000.00
League of Conservation Voters.................................................$131,000.00
Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights........................$142,500.00
Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington..................$50,000.00
Center for Policy Alternatives.......................................................$21,947.00
Center for Progressive Leadership................................................$40,000.00
Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.........................................$77,867.00
Arms Control Association www.armscontrol.org........................$83,626.00

Center for Independent Media...www.newjournalist.org/about.html..$1,000.00
Center for Investigative Reporting..www.muckraker.org.....................$1,500.00
Center for Justice and Accountability..www.cja.org...........................$15,000.000
Center for Media and Democracy..www.prwatch.org..........................$10,000.00


The Jewish Community Center in Manhattan...............................$300,000.00
Congregation B'nai Jeshurun...............................................................$60,000.00
Iraqi Society for Change..........................................................................$4,000.00
Foundation for Christ Consciousness................................................$20,000.00
Feminist Majority Foundation............................................................$24,491.00


Grist Magazine............................................................................................$5000.00
Foundation for Nat'l Progress...www.motherjones.com..............$10,000.00
Democracy: A Journal of Ideas..www.democracyjournal.org.....$25,000.00
Demos..................www.demos.org.........................................................$15,000.00

NOTE the external text is taken from the websites listed and re-formated for this post

reply to post by crimvelvet

-At no point in the thorium cycle – from mining to waste – can fuel or waste products be used as bomb material in any way;

I appreciate the amount of effort you put into your posts but there is some misinformation in there.

-Thorium fuel cycle waste material consists mostly of 233-uranium, which can be recycled as fuel (with minor actinide content decreased 90-100%, and with plutonium content eliminated entirely)

Thorium's main waste isotope is not much different than standard fuel used, and the suggestion is they keep making more isotopes out of the spent fuel. So there is not much difference there.

The United States first tested U-233 as part of a bomb core in Operation Teapot in 1955.[2] Uranium-233 compares roughly to plutonium-239: its radioactivity is only one seventh (159,200 years half-life versus 24,100 years)

Also, India and China have the highest reserves of Thorium if I remember correctly. Canada (and the USA) has the highest reserves of Uranium. Hence the propensity to use Uranium as opposed to Thorium in the West.

reply to post by boncho

I appreciate the amount of effort you put into your posts but there is some misinformation in there.

Thanks for the info. It is sometimes hard to sift the dross and misinfo out.

Thorium is an interesting element and has uses other than as a nuclear fuel by the way.

From some of my very recent reading from better sources:

World Nuclear Assoc: www.world-nuclear.org...

* Thorium is much more abundant in nature than uranium.
* Thorium can also be used as a nuclear fuel through breeding to fissile uranium-233.

Thorium continues to be a tanatalising possibility for use in nuclear power reactors, though for many years India has been the only sponsor of major research efforts to use it. Other endeavours include the development of the Radkowsky Thorium Reactor concept being carried out by US company Thorium Power (now Lightbridge Corporation) with Russian collaboration.

In mid-2009, AECL signed agreements with three Chinese entities to develop and demonstrate the use of thorium fuel in the Candu reactors at Qinshan in China. Another mid-2009 agreement, between Areva and Lightbridge Corporation, was for assessing the use of thorium fuel in Areva's EPR, drawing upon earlier research. Thorium can also be used in Generation IV and other advanced nuclear fuel cycle systems...

Thorium is a naturally-occurring, slightly radioactive metal discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. Soil commonly contains an average of around 6 parts per million (ppm) of thorium.

Thorium-232 (Th-232) decays very slowly (its half-life is about three times the age of the Earth) but other thorium isotopes occur in its and in uranium's decay chains. Most of these are short-lived and hence much more radioactive than Th-232, though on a mass basis they are negligible....

When heated in air, thorium metal turnings ignite and burn brilliantly with a white light. Because of these properties, thorium has found applications in light bulb elements, lantern mantles, arc-light lamps, welding electrodes and heat-resistant ceramics. Glass containing thorium oxide has a high refractive index and dispersion and is used in high quality lenses for cameras and scientific instruments.

Thorite (ThSiO4) is another common mineral. A large vein deposit of thorium and rare earth metals is in Idaho.

Estimated world thorium resources1

(Reasonably assured and inferred resources recoverable at up to $80/kg Th)

Country...............Tonnes............% of total
Australia ...............489,000...............19%
USA ......................400,000...............15%
Turkey ...................344,000...............13%
India.......................319,000...............12%
Venezuela................300,000...............12%
Brazil......................302,000...............12%
Norway...................132,000...............5%
Egypt......................100,000...............4%
Russia.......................75,000...............3%
Greenland.................54,000...............2%
Canada......................44,000...............2%
South Africa..............18,000...............1%
Other countries.........33,000...............1%
World total...............2,610,000 [/align]

The article then goes on to explain how Thorium is used as a fuel

Thorium as a nuclear fuel

Thorium, as well as uranium, can be used as a nuclear fuel. Although not fissile itself, Th-232 will absorb slow neutrons to produce uranium-233 (U-233)a, which is fissile (and long-lived). The irradiated fuel can then be unloaded from the reactor, the U-233 separated from the thorium, and fed back into another reactor as part of a closed fuel cycle. Alternatively, U-233 can be bred from thorium in a blanket, the U-233 separated, and then fed into the core.

In one significant respect U-233 is better than uranium-235 and plutonium-239, because of its higher neutron yield per neutron absorbed. Given a start with some other fissile material (U-233, U-235 or Pu-239) as a driver, a breeding cycle similar to but more efficient than that with U-238 and plutonium (in normal, slow neutron reactors) can be set up. (The driver fuels provide all the neutrons initially, but are progressively supplemented by U-233 as it forms from the thorium.) However, there are also features of the neutron economy which counter this advantage. In particular the intermediate product protactinium-233 (Pa-233) is a neutron absorber which diminishes U-233 yield.

Over the last 40 years there has been interest in utilising thorium as a nuclear fuel since it is more abundant in the Earth's crust than uranium. Also, all of the mined thorium is potentially useable in a reactor, compared with the 0.7% of natural uranium in today's reactorsb, so some 40 times the amount of energy per unit mass might theoretically be available (without recourse to fast neutron reactors). But this relative advantage vanishes if fast neutron reactors are used for uranium....
[long discussion left out]

Developing a thorium-based fuel cycle

Despite the thorium fuel cycle having a number of attractive features, development has always run into difficulties.

The main attractive features are:

* The possibility of utilising a very abundant resource which has hitherto been of so little interest that it has never been quantified properly.
* The production of power with few long-lived transuranic elements in the waste.
* Reduced radioactive wastes generally.
[problems listed]
.....
* Some concern over weapons proliferation risk of U-233 (if it could be separated on its own), although many designs such as the Radkowsky Thorium Reactor address this concern.

* The technical problems (not yet satisfactorily solved) in reprocessing solid fuels. However, with some designs, in particular the molten salt reactor (MSR), these problems are likely to largely disappear.

Much development work is still required before the thorium fuel cycle can be commercialised, and the effort required seems unlikely while (or where) abundant uranium is available. In this respect, recent international moves to bring India into the ambit of international trade might result in the country ceasing to persist with the thorium cycle, as it now has ready access to traded uranium and conventional reactor designs.

Nevertheless, the thorium fuel cycle, with its potential for breeding fuel without the need for fast neutron reactors, holds considerable potential in the long-term. It is a significant factor in the long-term sustainability of nuclear energy....

Further Information

a. Neutron absorption by Th-232 produces Th-233, which has a half-life of about 22 minutes. This undergoes beta decay to form Pa-233 (half-life 27 days), most of which forms U-233 by further beta decay. Around 11% of the U-233 is converted by further neutron absorption to U-235, which is the fissile isotope of uranium used in conventional nuclear reactors. [Back]

b. For utilization of uranium in a typical light water reactor, see section on Material balance in the nuclear fuel cycle in the information page on The Nuclear Fuel Cycle. [Back]

c. Development of the pebble bed modular reactor (PBMR) by the South Africa's Pebble Bed Modular Reactor (Pty) Limited was curtailed in 2010 due to a lack of funding. [Back]

d. Thorium Power (now Lightbridge Corporation, www.ltbridge.com) was formed in 1992 to develop Radkowsky's nuclear fuel designs, which would not produce weapons suitable plutonium in nuclear waste. In April 2007, the company formed an alliance with Red Star nuclear design bureau in Russia to take forward the programme to demonstrate the technology in lead-test fuel assemblies in full-sized commercial reactors. In December 2008, Thorium Power became the first US company to sign an agreement with an Indian company (engineering firm Punj Lloyd) following the finalization of the US-India nuclear trade agreement. The company changed its name to Lightbridge Corporation in September 2009. [Back]

Going on to Lightbridge Corporation: [LARGE GRAIN OF SALT????]

...
About Thorium

* Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive metal, and it has been considered as an alternative nuclear fuel to uranium.

* Unlike uranium, thorium is non-proliferative: The key advantage of the thorium fuel cycle is that it does NOT produce
plutonium and is non-proliferative for that reason.

* The energy contained in one kilogram of thorium equals that of four thousand tons of coal.

* The energy stored in the earth's thorium reserves is thought to be greater than that available from all other conventional (fossil) and nuclear fuels combined.

* Thorium is cheaper and more abundant than uranium (approx three times more abundant in the Earth's crust than all
forms of uranium combined).

* The thorium fuel cycle produces less radioactive waste than uranium (1,000 to 10,000 times less than in conventional
reactors).

* Unlike natural uranium where only the 0.7% sliver of isotope 235 is fissionable, thorium is fully used in the fuel cycle.

* Unlike uranium, thorium can burn plutonium waste from traditional nuclear reactors with additional energy output.

* Unlike uranium, thorium is not suitable for the production of weapons-grade materials.

* Global reserves of thorium (India, Australia, Norway and the U.S. possess the largest reserves) could cover the world’s energy needs for thousands of years.
investorshub.advfn.com...#

AND following that sites suggestions:

Key Attributes of Lightbridge’s Thorium-Based Advanced Nuclear Fuel Designs:

* Once-through fuel cycle based on patented seed and blanket fuel assembly design that efficiently utilizes thorium – no reprocessing of used fuel needed to take advantage of thorium (fissile isotope U-233 bred from thorium is burned in situ providing up to one-third of total reactor power output)
* Full compatibility with existing light water reactor designs (no major reactor modifications required)
* Enhanced proliferation resistance of the used fuel (no weapons-suitable material in used fuel and increased fraction of even Pu isotopes)
* Reduced natural uranium requirements (up to 10% natural uranium savings)
* Reduced volume (up to 40% reduction) and long-term radio-toxicity (up to 90% reduction) of used fuel
* Improved fuel cycle economics (cost competitive on the front-end with significant cost savings expected on the back-end)

Lightbridge’s Thorium-Based Seed-And-Blanket Fuel Designs Lightbridge's patented seed-and-blanket fuel assembly consists of two sections: (1) the central region called the seed that is surrounded by (2) fuel rods in the outer region called the blanket.

The seed incorporates proprietary all-metal fuel rods which differ from conventional fuel rods and offer certain reactor safety and cost benefits. The seed rods are comprised of a zirconium-based alloy produced using a co-extrusion fabrication process.

The blanket is comprised of thorium-uranium oxide pelletized fuel rods similar to that of conventional fuel rods presently used in commercial light water reactors. The main difference between the blanket fuel rods and conventional fuel rods is the material contained in the pellets: thorium-uranium oxide (Th,U)O2 mixture in the blanket rods vs. uranium oxide (UO2) in conventional uranium fuel rods.

Within the thorium-based fuel product family, we currently have three types, or variants, of thorium-based fuel designs in various stages of development. The first is designed to provide reactor owners/operators with a proliferation resistant fuel technology that will not generate weapons-usable plutonium in the spent fuel. The second is designed to dispose of reactor-grade plutonium that has been extracted from spent fuel from commercial reactors. The third is designed to dispose of weapons-grade plutonium that is stockpiled in Russia and the United States.

Uranium-Zirconium Metal Seed and Thorium-Uranium Oxide Blanket Fuel Design
Lightbridge’s primary thorium-based fuel design incorporates δ-phase uranium-zirconium metal fuel rods in the seed region and thorium-uranium oxide fuel rods in the blanket region. This fuel design offers enhanced proliferation resistance, a significant reduction in used fuel volume and weight (up to 40% and 70%, respectively) and reduced long-term radio-toxicity (90% reduction) of used fuel. The fuel design also provides improved fuel cycle economics, particularly on the back-end. In some earlier technical publications, this fuel design has also been referred to as Radkowsky Thorium Fuel or RTF.... www.ltbridge.com...

reply to post by crimvelvet


Thanks for clearing up some of my issues with the other post.

Although the Lightbridge page was not worth posting

reply to post by boncho

Although the Lightbridge page was not worth posting

YEAH - they are trying to get as much as they can for their stock

Even if they did have good info they are NOT going to post it for corporate spies to steal....


I have hopes they may actually come up with something fairly safe and usable within my life time. Civilization runs on ENERGY and I would really rather not go back to horse and oxen.

I can drive single, pair, and four in hand teams of horses but not as a living thank you very much... I can also drive a semi

reply to post by boncho


You bring up some good points, but make sure you give a source link.
I would really like to read the sources. Fa real.

That was good information though.

And crimvelvet as well, but crim always puts a lot of thought and content into every post.

reply to post by Josephus23


Yep, I missed that. First source was off one of the other posters links here. And the other was just a quick wiki of Uranium233

My post was really just off the top of my head. In the first post I read that there was no proliferation risk, which knocked me back because I know 233 comes out of Thorium. And there are also fuel cycle that use plutonium with thorium. (TMK)



Then Crim posted more info, which sets it out better. They are saying that they want to use the Radkowsky Thorium Reactor. There is a paper on it here.

The articles sourced in this thread it seems are more talking about what it will be like to use Thorium in the future which I maybe misinterpreted. The reactor they are speaking of limits the risk of the Uranium getting out. (their words)

* Some concern over weapons proliferation risk of U-233 (if it could be separated on its own), although many designs such as the Radkowsky Thorium Reactor address this concern.

And the other comment I made about India with Thorium reserves, I hadn't noticed that there were equal reserves in the US. Probably because it has gotten more press regarding India. A blunder on my part.

I also don't think the US looked at Thorium as viable or needed until recently.

reply to post by boncho

Yep, I missed that.....

Yes there is a lot of conflicting info out there. I got stuff off ACS (American Chemical Society) and Physics.org originally plus some popular articles but the World Nuclear Assoc: www.world-nuclear.org... seems a lot more accurate.

The ACS article is here:pubs.acs.org...
So far it seems "Lightbridge scientists are developing thorium-based fuels for today's commercial reactors.... scheduled to insert three test fuel-rod assemblies into commercial light-water reactors in Russia in the 2012–13 time frame."

With luck The US government will now pursue this technology.

...A key source of interest in LFTR is the design's inherent safety features. David LeBlanc, a staff physicist at Carleton University, in Ottawa, and a nuclear reactor specialist, points out several safety-related differences between LFTRs and today's commercial reactors. To begin with, LFTRs would operate at low pressure. Furthermore, an increase in the temperature of LFTR fuel (a molten salt) would reduce the medium's density and thereby lower its nuclear reactivity. In addition, if the reactor leaked or was drained of its fuel, the molten salt would solidify. In the event of reactor malfunction, those features would terminate nuclear reactions and prevent the spread of radioactive material without the need for plant-operator intervention.

Despite considerable enthusiasm for the LFTR concept among thorium advocates, several attendees at the Washington conference acknowledged that an enormous investment of time, effort, and money would be required before any new type of nuclear reactor could be licensed for commercial operation.... pubs.acs.org...

I figure if we have to have an abundant energy supply it is not going to be wind or solar, the physics just isn't there. Hydro is probably the best but that has limits. As a chemist I am horrified at burning such useful stuff as oil so that leaves treadmills or nuclear and if I have to have nuclear I want Thorium not uranium (U238)

I say this since I can look out the window at the nuclear plant. You might say I have a vested interest in seeing it fueled with Thorium.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Josephus23

 

Speaking of sad...

Was the Bible forged? Author claims some New Testament books were written by 'people pretending to be apostles'

Parts of the Bible were written by people who lied about their identity, an author has claimed.
Bart D Ehrman claims many books of the New Testament were forged by people pretending to be the apostles Peter, Paul or James.
Writing in the Huffington Post, Professor Ehrman, best selling author of 'Misquoting Jesus' and 'Jesus, Interrupted', said religious scholars were well aware of the 'lies' of the Bible.


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

Now here is a real shocker, evidently at least three of the contributing authors of the Holy Roman Bible were not who they said they were.

Amazing huh?

The author goes on to insist that most relgious scholars are well aware of this but turn a blind eye to machinations.

The author does not seem to raise the million dollar question(s) as to whether Roman Authorities were aware that these books were being brought forth by conmen, though he believes religious scholars were aware at the time.

Or if Rome published what were known forgeries simply because they added something particuarly useful to the religion such as the mysoginist traditions of patriarchal Rome, casting women as patently inferior and men as their moral superiors.

Of course with New World Order precursor actions taking place at a steady clip throughout the world is this mainstream media disclosure part of a campaign to be begin discrediting the Earth's most popular religions?

some interesting theories exist about WHO wrote the New Testament and WHY.


reuchlina.tripod.com...

www.angelfire.com...

ROME NEEDED CHRISTIANITY (08/28/99)

One of the main reasons that people have not realized that Rome actually needed Christianity
is because; (1) The Romans won their war with the Jews, and (2) as such were the writers and
recorders of public history, and (3) they deliberately hid the fact that this war was actually one
long ongoing all-out war that lasted for over one hundred years! (4) They make much of saying
that they (the Romans) do not 'like', want, or understand Christianity. While, nevertheless, and
in fact, 'advertising' it and pronouncing its 'virtues'. (5) As well as these things, they also make
it appear that Christians were persecuted, thrown to the lions and martyred.

But in fact, all of these can be explained away and shown to be total fabrications. The truth of
the matter is that Christianity was indeed "manufactured" to fit Rome like a custom-made
glove. The Romans needed Christianity for a number of reasons; but most of all, if it were to
be effective and seen as 'true' it could NOT be found to be linked to the Roman leadership itself.
So, officially, it HAD to appear that Christianity was NOT WANTED by the Roman leadership -
so that THEY would never be suspected as actually having had created it! ......

ROMAN PISO FAMILY WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT, INVENTED "JESUS"

"We Jews and Church Leaders have known since the beginning of Christianity that it was
synthesized by the Roman Piso family for the purpose of maintaining control over the masses and to
placate slaves. And, this is why we Jews are the "Chosen People" and why we have endured so
much for so many years; we are witnesses to the lie. Our ancestors wrote what they could about
this in our texts."

FROM CHAPTER I (The True Authorship of the New Testament)

"The New Testament, the Church, and Christianity, were all the creation of the Calpurnius Piso
(pronounced Peso w/ long "E") family (a), who were Roman aristocrats. The New Testament and
all the characters in it--Jesus, all the Josephs, all the Marys, all the disciples, apostles, Paul, and
John the Baptist--are all fictional."

"The Pisos created the story and the characters; they tied the story into a specific time and place in
history; and they connected it with some peripheral actual people, such as the Herods, Gamaliel, the
Roman procurators, etc. But Jesus and everyone involved with him were created (that is, fictional!)
characters." ..........

I have also posted thoughts in the past. I think the Roman "historian" Josephus Flavius may have been involved, along with His successors and possibly His predecessors (i.e. - the Hebrew Scholors of the Roman times).

many theories are about TPTB in ancient times (2500+ years ago) writing the Old Testament stories over hundreds of years.

TPTB in ancient times were the elite merchant - banker class possibly guised as what became the "Phoenicians".

article with pictures

Could lead codices prove ‘the major discovery of Christian history’?

news.yahoo.com...

The codices turned up five years ago in a remote cave in eastern Jordan—a region where early Christian believers may have fled after the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 CE. The codices are made up of wirebound individual pages, each roughly the size of a credit card. They contain a number of images and textual allusions to the Messiah, as well as some possible references to the crucifixion and resurrection. Some of the codices were sealed, prompting yet more breathless speculation that they could include the sealed book, shown only to the Messiah, mentioned in the Book of Revelation. One of the few sentences translated thus far from the texts, according to the BBC, reads,

"I shall walk uprightly"--a phrase that also appears in Revelation. "While it could be simply a sentiment common in Judaism," BBC writer Robert Pigott notes, "it could here be designed to refer to the resurrection."

Initial metallurgical research indicates that the codices are about 2,000 years old--based on the manner of corrosion they have undergone, which, as Macrae writes, "experts believe would be impossible to achieve artificially."

Meanwhile, biblical scholars who have examined the codices point to significant textual evidence suggesting their early Christian origin. Philip Davies, emeritus professor of Old Testament Studies at Sheffield University, told Pigott he was "dumbstruck" at the sight of plates representing a picture map of ancient Jerusalem. "There is a cross in the foreground, and behind it is what has to be the tomb [of Jesus], a small building with an opening, and behind that the walls of the city," Davies explained. "There are walls depicted on other pages of these books, too, and they almost certainly refer to Jerusalem."

David Elkington, an ancient religion scholar who heads the British research team investigating the find, has likewise pronounced this nothing less than "the major discovery of Christian history." Elkington told the Daily Mail that "it is a breathtaking thought that we have held these objects that might have been held by the early saints of the Church."

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c0ec2f5dffbf.jpg[/atsimg]


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ffbaf5f0bfb0.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


That's outstanding they found some early Ink Blot Test Cards.

And what's this one look like, and this one? Now this one.

[[[snip]]]

reply to post by xuenchen

I have also posted thoughts in the past.....

In reading your post about the true authors of the New Testament, I could not help but notice the striking similarity to today.

The Banking/Elite/Fabian or whatever you wish to call them, financed and supported the Bolshevik Revolution. In the USA they selected twenty PhD candidates in US history to rewrite history to show the values of socialism. Of course all the while they are having their propaganda outlets, the MSM condemning "Greedy Capitalists" right and left for everything that happens, never mind that Capitalism has been dead for over 100 yrs! www.freedomforceinternational.org...

NO WONDER the true story of Thanksgiving got rewritten!
The Great Thanksgiving Hoax


Try telling a brainwashed "Socialist" or "Progressive" or "Communist" or "Marxist" that the Banksters are NOT capitalists but are promoting and FINANCING collectivism and they think you are NUTS!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

That's outstanding they found some early Ink Blot Test Cards....

You are not the only one having a bit of a problem with this find.

Lead Codices Silliness
Posted: March 30, 2011 by rogueclassicist

One of my ongoing irritants is when an otherwise-respectable news source — such as the BBC — gives its journalistic imprimatur to ‘news’ which is clearly questionable without even thinking too hard or (worse) as a precursor to a documentary which will be appearing later on some television station, such as, well, the BBC. A few months ago I participated in an official discussion about the BBC’s coverage of science stories and pointed out that they don’t seem to appreciate their responsibility in reporting ALL news responsibly because — especially in the area of ‘archaeological discovery’ — they are considered a worthy source for other news agencies to pick up. In other words, if the BBC says it, it must be true (Ipse dixit!). Unfortunately, the BBC has just ‘done it again’ and have given legitimacy to a story which a twelve-year-old might be able to pick apart.

The story seems to have originated in the Jewish Chronicle at the beginning of March 2011 … here’s the incipit of their version:

Robert Feather is out to prove the sceptics wrong. A metallurgist with a passion for archaeology, he has been asked to help authenticate what he believes could be one of the most exciting religious discoveries since the Dead Sea Scrolls....

Okay … let’s stop there and just note some things: we have 20 codices (that’s a rather large number, but not suspicious in itself), made from cast lead (whiskey tango foxtrot … first alarms should be going off), then we get phrases like “Kabbalah-related” and “magical incantation style of writiing” (second set of alarms go off). Alarms might also go off for some with the mention of Robert Feather’s involvement (he has ‘interesting’ interpretations of the Copper Scroll and assorted other things).
Then the article goes on to give some expert opinions:

The Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA), however, has dismissed the idea that the books are of any value. Experts who examined some of them, it said, “absolutely doubted their authenticity”. According to the IAA, the books are a “mixture of incompatible periods and styles…without any connection or logic. Such forged motifs can be found in their thousands in the antiquities markets of Jordan and elsewhere in the Middle East.”

Professor Andre Lemaire, an expert in ancient inscriptions from the Sorbonne, was also dubious, saying the writing on some of the codices he had seen made no sense and it was “a question apparently of sophisticated fakes”.

… which are some pretty weighty opinions and should be enough to be ‘end of story’. Of course, it wouldn’t be for a metallurgist dabbling in a field he seems to have no real credentials in, and once again we are presented with the ‘outsider taking on the establishment’, which the press seems to love so very much...

I will leave you to read the rest.

reply to post by crimvelvet



and in this link we see a major propaganda effort to "convince" and "assume" using ancient Roman historians to "prove" that Jesus existed!

F.F. Bruce, Rylands Professor of Biblical criticism at the University of Manchester has said...

"Some writers may toy with the fancy of a 'Christ-myth', but they do not do so on the ground of historical evidence. The historicity of Christ is as axiomatic for the unbiased historian as the historicity of Julius Caesar. It is not historians who propagate the 'Christ-myth' theories." (F.F. Bruce: 'The New Testament documents: Are they reliable?')
In other words, good historians know that the evidence for a real Jesus is reliable. What is this evidence?

Obviously most of what we know about Jesus comes from the New Testament, but not everything. Who or what are these other sources of information about Jesus? .......

www.introducingjesus.org...


in truth, all those Roman historians may very well be "ghost writers" and fabricated characters. we don't see much true evidence that they really existed!


and of course we have William Tyndale who "translated and wrote" an English version of the Bible c1526!


He was the first to use the phrase "The Powers That Be" in the Bible !!!!!

OriginThe phrase first appeared in Tyndale's 1526 translation of the New Testament, with the meaning "the established political powers": "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: The powers that be are ordained of God" (Romans 13:1). It was incorporated into the King James Version, from where it eventually passed into popular language.

en.wikipedia.org...(phrase)


He invented and coined many other "new" [English] words and phrases as well.


en.wikipedia.org...

In 1535, Tyndale was arrested by church authorities and jailed in the castle of Vilvoorde outside Brussels for over a year. He was tried for heresy, strangled and burnt at the stake in 1536. The Tyndale Bible, as it was known, continued to play a key role in spreading Reformation ideas across Europe. The fifty-four independent scholars who created the King James Version of the bible in 1611 drew significantly on Tyndale's translations. One estimation suggests the New Testament in the King James Version is 83% Tyndale's, and the Old Testament 76%............

What did HE do wrong anyway ???.....

Since they are still being studied, those that want to believe will, and those that don't want to believe wont,

but here is a close up,

regardless what you want to believe to be true, it is fascination.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/13199cf2468d.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d29877cdbcdf.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Yes it's an old book, but the problem is old books from Roman times that depict crucifixtions a very commonly used method of execution really is not evidence that it was Jesus that was being referred to, or that it was Christians who made a small book of pictograms.

That would be akin to saying a book dating to the period of the French Revolution with a picture of a guillotine must be about Louis the IVIII or Marie Antoinette even though it could be one of countless of thousands common criminals executed with the same device, or just a book on the practice and history of the guillotine.

Some scholars have been very critical and questioning of this find, and it would seem to me based on the limited pictoral evidence it's a stretch of the imagination to say the least, that it substantiates the claims being made in the exerpts of the article you posted.

Rome crucified countless people over centuries, and no doubt countless references, works of arts, scrolls, tablets etc were made by the letitious Romans to catalog this practice.

Crucifiction was not invented simply to execute the historical Jesus, it existed well before and well after as a method of execution, one that many Jews rebelling against Rome were subjected to.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Very clear images

news.bbc.co.uk...

the picture of the fruited palm symbol to the heir of the house of David.

Eight pointed star indicating the messiah

www.scribd.com...

Not unusual, there were curse tablets inscribed on lead in Corinth

katadesmoi
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dee1e85222b4.jpg[/atsimg]

and here is another leaf from the codices

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0611d6bd617c.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yes it's an old book, but the problem is old books from Roman times that depict crucifixtions a very commonly used method of execution really is not evidence that it was Jesus that was being referred to, or that it was Christians who made a small book of pictograms.

There is also the problem of various "prophets" running around spouting their interpretation of God. Muhammad talking of visiting a hell filled with women and a heaven filled with men comes immediately to mind. (Sure is a good way to excuse abusing your wife)

Heck I lived near Hill Cumorah (Palmyra/Victor area) in New York. (Mormons)


And then there is good old L. Ron Hubbard (Scientology)

L. Ron Hubbard is widely rumored to have said "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion." There are also variant rumors. For some reason, this is often mentioned on Usenet. Evidence is discussed below, but the short answer is that it's almost certainly true.... www.don-lindsay-archive.org...

Jean Berman a Science Fiction fan, supposedly said "I knew L. Ron when he was just a small time crook"

The whole L. Ron Hubbard/Scientology situation is something of a joke among SF addicts.

The clincher for me is how Christianity tells you how to be a good little slave and to expect your reward, not on earth but in heaven.

Given the "eye for an eye" philosophy of the Jews I can see where those in power would much prefer Christianity. No wonder missionaries were sent in first to "Convert" the heathens before the soldiers came to slaughter them!