All Roads Lead to Rome

Originally posted by Epiphron
reply to post by Josephus23

 

No link exists because the letter doesn't exist. Apparently it was a hoax.

To be honest with you... I had a feeling as to such, thus the request for the link.

No offense to Isaacland, but right now is not the time to make unsubstantiated accounts or post quotes with no links.
Something like that could be technically construed as plagiarism, and we can have none of that.
And if a comment concerns an unsubstantiated account, then it makes us all look bad based upon association.

The only playbook that I know of concerning TPTB, which has any social validity, is the Bible.

And it doesn't really speak of wars particularly in the "end times" revelation, but it metaphorically describes what could be seen by some as wars.

The funny thing about this prophecy that is "years old" is that the entire Christian eschatological diatribe is essentially a product of the Scofield Bible.
Mr. Scofield was a Zionist Jew/Christian convert who created the doctrine of dispensationalism, which is the current model that was later adopted by biblical scholars.

Thanks for the follow up Epiphron.

Originally posted by Isaacland
reply to post by Josephus23

 

It was also proven the '9/11 inside job theory' was a Hoax, apparently Ossama Ben Laden have exceptional Supernatural intellectual capacities. Organizations like bohemian grove, Bilderberg , Rome, tptb etc does not exist also, all world events happen randomly, so please close your eyes and go back to sleep now.

Shalom

I am not really sure what your intent was with this post.

I am not questioning you... Well actually, yes I am, and that should not offend you. If you make statements then they need to be substantiated/referenced in some way.

If this is some bizarre ad hominem attack, then I suppose that I offended you, and if I did then I am sorry that you became offended.
My goal is to keep this academic. We obviously have people who are looking for any reason to close this thread.
My goal of protecting the thread should be a group goal, and if you do not understand that, then you do not understand the basic premise of this thread.

Originally posted by Epiphron
reply to post by Josephus23

 

No link exists because the letter doesn't exist. Apparently it was a hoax.

I am not entirely sure if the Pike letter was a hoax, in part because it seems to be absent many of the underlying factors that compell someone to Hoax.

It's not aimed at a specific religous group, race or nation. Rather instead at a shadowy group many doubt and dispute even existed.

Nor is there any great money to be made like pawning off a fake Divinci or Hitler Diary.

Nor was there any fame to be had, as the discoverer of the letter.

More thought provoking is that the three world war theory makes sense, and once again we see how it's based on people thinking (or at least the author) that events will be made to appear like Biblical Prophecy.

Even if it is a hoax, it's a sound concept, but since the original letter is alleged to have dissapeared from the London Museum, a letter that the Museum disputes it ever had, it's one of those things that finding the total truth about is impossible since the alleged author is long dead, as is the recipient, the currators who supposedly later obtained it etc.

The amazing thing about some lies, is they are often lies when originally put out there but later become the truth when events transpire either purposefully that transform the lie into the truth or accidentally.

Hoax or not I consider the premise of the alleged Pike letter to be a very sound one.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I too see the common theme of three world wars and I have heard of the rumor of the letter, but I was really hoping to see it.
I was sincerely hoping for a link.
Albert Pike was as enigmatic of a man as his Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite.

I honestly can not wrap my head around the idea of battling one minute with the people of your country.
Literal war. Actual dead people... lost limbs.... dead soldiers.... and then...

He is writing the "new" 33 rites to the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite for the people of the entire country.
His brothers in the Northern District, who were always his brothers, will no longer be someone that must be killed on the battlefield.

Sorry to trip out on that thought....

Any thoughts on the Scofield Reference Bible Proto?

reply to post by Josephus23


There should be a link to a supposed transcipt of the letter in my opening piece, where I briefly touched upon it.

You might want to check it out.

Thanks my friend.

I can't see any other conclusion than was reached by Terry Melanson, based on his research and evidence presented, than to conclude the Pike-Mazzini letter was entirely fabricated by "Leo Taxil" and the waters further muddied by William Guy Carr with the "three world wars" claim.
The "letter" can't be traced as it never existed.
Another reason to follow the historical method: produce the primary documents to back up your claim. These were never produced, for obvious reasons.

reply to post by Josephus23
This is a short biographical sketch revealing little known facts about the celebrated dispensationalist saint Cyrus Ingerson Scofield, author of the Scofield Reference Bible. We are grateful to Joseph Canfield for his book The Incredible Scofield and his Book and to Dave MacPherson for providing a good portion of the documentation.
poweredbychrist.homestead.com...

Scofields bible is not his invention ...It basically boils down to the KJV with foot notes and references that help perpetuate dispensalisim or futurism a Jesuit invention to take the heat of of Rome as being the anti-Christ ...the counter thought was preterism that took the heat off of Rome and put the anti-Christ in the past within the Greeks ,also a creation of the Jesuits ...

Professor Veith gives a fairly good lecture on the different manuscripts used to create what we call today the bibles ...Although we have many versions there is some major differences ... amazingdiscoveries.tv...

Back to Scofield ...I kind of fell for the dispensation hook and when I researched it I was bothered to the point as wanting to throw that bible into the trash ....But like many tools of lies there is a truth underlying them if sought after can be discerned........

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I would like to know how long the supposed fake letter to Mazzini was touched upon by authors and conspiracy theorists. How far back can we go to find people referencing the letter? If it is indeed all the way back to 1925 then you have to wonder how the predictions in the letter are so accurate.

Supposedly Cardinal Caro y Rodriguez of Santiago, Chile, who wrote The Mystery of Freemasonry Unveiled had cataloged the letter in the British Museum Library in 1925. To date the Library says it never had such a letter, ever. So what in the world happened and when did references to it begin to appear?

We need only look to recent events to see how accurate the letter is. There is a storm brewing that was foretold in the Bible and Pike's letter. Zionism and the Muslim faith are supposed to collide in a horrific blood bath. Pike's letter says neither side wins. The Bible says the faithful win.

I heard it said that hind sight is twenty twenty. After these horrific events will we look back and say that we knew it was going to happen like that and we should have done something like....Will we be kicking ourselves in the rear wondering why we sat on this information?

Everyone wants a look into the future. Here we have it. A diabolical scheme to cull the population and foster a one world government. The players are thoroughly brainwashed and ripe for the execution of the plan. We need only look at a few of the war mongering statements right here at ATS. The hatred is coming to a boil.

The thing is, is that it has been so well planned and executed thus far, that I'm not sure how to open the eyes of the the cannon fodder. The faithful are promised victory if they are faithful to the end and on the other end of the spectrum we have the very same thing. The faithful on the other side are promised victory if they remain faithful. It is insidious.

We all need to realize why we have been given this glimpse into the future.

Tell Me More About Albert Pike
Albert Pike's Background


Jump to Albert Pike & Three World Wars

Very few outsiders know about the intimate plans of Albert Pike and the architects of the New World Order. In the 19th Century Albert Pike established a framework for bringing about the One World Order. Based on a vision revealed to him, Albert Pike wrote a blueprint of events that would play themselves out in the 20th century, with even more of these events yet to come. It is this blueprint which we believe unseen leaders are following today, knowingly or not, to engineer the planned Third and Final World War.

www.threeworldwars.com...

Here is the information that Proto posted in his opening for your perusal.

reply to post by Aquarius1


Thanks for digging that our of there Aquarius1. I was certain I put some kind of external reference to the letter in the opening piece.

I am pretty darn sure I put a great recipe for Chicken Caciatore in there too!

If you could find that for me, I sure would appreciate it!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/60b35af0dba0.jpg[/atsimg]


The Associated Press
Updated: Tue Feb. 22 2011 10:59:53 AM


CAIRO — Two Iranian naval vessels traveled through the Suez Canal on Tuesday en route to Syria, officials said, the first time in three decades that Tehran has sent military ships through the strategic waterway.

Canal officials said the ships -- a frigate and a supply vessel -- had reached the Mediterranean Sea by about 4 p.m. local time.

Israel saw the passage as a provocation. Israeli officials refused to comment Tuesday, though earlier this week Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he viewed the move "with gravity."

The canal linking the Red Sea and the Mediterranean enables ships to avoid a lengthy sail around Africa. The Iranian ships are headed for a training mission in Syria, a close ally of Iran's hard-line Islamic rulers and an arch foe of Israel. In Syria, officials at the Iranian embassy said it would mark the first time in years that Iranian naval vessels dock in a Syrian port.

The ships paid about $300,000 in fees for the passage, according to a Maritime agent. The officials all spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to speak publicly about the matter.

Iran's request to send the warships through the Suez Canal came at a particularly difficult time for Egypt as the nation's new military rulers try to focus on pressing domestic issues, including restoring security after the uprising that ousted longtime leader Hosni Mubarak.

The military rulers apparently had no choice but to grant the ships passage because an international convention regulating shipping says the canal must be open "to every vessel of commerce or of war." Egypt also cannot search naval ships passing through the waterway.

Iranian warships have not passed through the Suez Canal since the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

Egyptian-Iranian ties broke down following the Islamic Revolution and the signing of the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty the same year. Later, the relationship improved slightly, with contacts currently channeled through interest sections in the two capitals.

If someone can find an original copy of the so-called letter from Pike to Mazzini it will be a genuine a coup. It won't be found as it doesn't exist.
Epiphron included this link earlier but I think it worthwhile including it again as its important to have myths exposed and to see how historical investigation should be conducted:

Albert Pike to Mazzini, August 15, 1871: Three World Wars?

Or, how Michael Haupt said, that William Guy Carr said, that Cardinal Caro y Rodriguez of Santiago, Chile said, that The Cause of World Unrest said, that the confessed hoaxer Gabriel Jogand-Pagès aka Dr. Bataille aka Leo Taxil said about Albert Pike and Giuseppe Mazzini in Le diable au XIXe siècle, v. II, 1894, p. 605 (but actually pp. 594-606). Got it?

I don’t derive any satisfaction from a debunking. I really don’t. Discovering the truth is a reward in itself.

Having a knack for getting to the bottom of a thing also helps with maintaining credibility. Historiography is among other things concerned with source criticism. And while I’m not an academically trained historian, I am quite aware that one should strive to consult the primary source as opposed to relying on the word of secondary or even tertiary accounts.

The matter at hand deals with an alleged “three world war” prediction from famed Mason, Scottish Rite Sovereign Grand Commander Albert Pike. William Guy Carr was the key purveyor of the tale which, to me, was suspicious at the least.

Off and on I’ve been working at it. And I’ve finally cracked the case.

Anyone who is interested in fiding the truth of the matter should read Terry's above article in full, and follow the copious links and references for further investigation. Placing faith in Carr's "sexing up" of Taxil's hoax is erroneous.

reply to post by Aquarius1


One of the things Pike's plans didn't envision is something many conspiracy theorists and progressive thinkers are concerned about today and that's a mock alien invasion staged by the Powers that Be to drive the world into a One World Government.

Rome's recent interest in studying the Stars and recent Vatican Statements declaring that if Alien Life exists on other planets it certainly doesn't preclude Christian notions of God, God just made them too!

So I published another new thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

That thanks to Aquarius1 sports a superb cartoon video humurously depicting why the Powers that Be might opt for such an elaborate ploy.

I look forward to seeing what kind of serious discussion comes out of that, in light of recent attempts here on ATS to minimize concerns regarding Project Blue Beam and HAARP with an outdated official view of the Space Based Defense Initiative.

I wonder who all has swallowed that bait, and who hasn't.

Hope to see you all there.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Aquarius1

 

I am pretty darn sure I put a great recipe for Chicken Caciatore in there too!

If you could find that for me, I sure would appreciate it!

Your welcome, couldn't find the recipe for Chicken Caciatore but did fine the one for Veal Scallopini, thanks, one of my favs..

Maybe Pike's letter was moved to the ( forbidden zone informations ) Trash Can Bin...

Proto please tell me, when they transfered your thread in the Trash Can Bin last week, did you saw Pike's Letter in it, if you did, could you get it for us and take also the Denver International Airport secret files please...

reply to post by mick1423


It's actually in the U.S. Government Warehouse where Indiana Jone's Lost Ark of the Covenant was stacked away.

Reference to it is in the President's Book of Secrets and that's what the President wanted to know about that was on Page 28 that Ben Gates couldn't tell Riley about in National Treasure II.

So yeah plenty of solid evidence that the letter is real.

Taxton seems to be well read on the subject and by and large correct in that the letter if it ever existed has dissapeared.

Though as I said before if it's a hoax it's a clever hoax, and about the only motive I can think of, would be similiar to using two famous and somewhat sinister people of great note as a conduit for one man's fears and observations much like some people say "God told me to invade Iraq while I was walking in the Rose Garden."

Something along the lines of a celebrity pitchman.

The plan in the letter seems a plausible one and realistic enough one, so I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater on this one.

Whether it was someone just goofing, somone trying to frighten others, someone with some inside information, someone with a theory, or Pike and Manzinni themselves communicating, if one person thought it, other's likely have too.

Considering the validity of the plan, I would say yeah, definately others have thought it too.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I am pretty darn sure I put a great recipe for Chicken Caciatore in there too!

No recipe for Chicken Caciatore but I know a great recipe for Moussaka or in Arabic: مسقعة‎

(It is one of my favorite recipe - good with ground venison)

reply to post by Extant Taxon


Extant Taxon, it was actually in one of your threads that I originally came across that link to the article debunking the letter, and luckily I was able to find it again when the topic was brought up earlier today. So thanks for your past research on the Pike letter, as well as the additional information you just provided.

The concept of the Three World Wars is indeed sound and seems to fit in well with the facts we do know. After reading the article, however, we should just keep the concept and drop the attribution to Pike. The book that mentions the letter cites a certain book from 1871 as the source and that certain book does have a letter by Pike, but there’s nothing about 3 world wars.

If we want to look at motives for creating this hoax, the person we need to look at is William Guy Carr. He cited a book by the cardinal of chile, but that book had no mention of three world wars. According to wikipedia, William Guy Carr was a conspiracy theorist, a former naval officer, and a leader of the National Federation of Christian Laymen of Toronto, which is an anti-communist organization.

As someone who made his money by selling conspiracies about the illuminati, the most obvious motive for the fabrication would be just that, to make money.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


hoax or not It's indeed very interesting, i'll check your link about it ( tks Aquarius1) and surf around to see what i can find. Discrediting informations and hiding it in the Trash Can Bin, could be a strategy use by TPTB to defend the forbidden zone and derail threatening investigations.

Now about the Iranian warships, they passed the suez canal and israel is furious. here is an interesting video on it by euronews and some others found on youtube, the islamic crisis could really distabilize the middle east region and Iran provocations could spark wars.

Why the united nation don't do anything to calm down this crisis.

www.euronews.net...

reply to post by Epiphron


I'm far from convinced that the "three world wars" concept is sound. Carr already had the benefit of hindsight with the first two wars to retrofit his theory (from his book intro dated 1958) and then construct speculation on a third. It doesn't look so prophetic when it's seen that the event he actually sought to prophecy hasn't actually occurred yet. And we shouldn't hope for it either. Let's hope that the Arab world and the state of Israel don't go toe-to-toe. Events are indeed looking extremely tense in the well named "arc of crisis" from North Africa to Southern Asia right now but it remains to be seen whether this will result in a catastrophic third world war. If this really were to happen I can't see anyone being able to challenge Israel in any case, whose nuclear capabilities are above and beyond anything in the rest of the Middle East. In fact they are the only nuclear power in the region. Right now. So I can't see any way they would let themselves be annihilated if it got to that stage. Iran, even if they were actually enriching uranium for the purposes of weaponization are a decade away from being able to have enough material to develop a single warhead by some estimates.
The world has been pulled back from the brink previously and one must hope that this will be so again as the consequences of even a limited thermonuclear conflict (though one-sided) are dire.
If it was just a conventional conflict the odds are still with Israel, owners of one of the most advanced conventional weapons arsenals on the planet.