All Roads Lead to Rome

reply to post by infinite


I questioned some of that myself,by looking at it from a "logical" perspective.

I'm sure more precise documentation exists,I just didn't go as far as I could have in looking for them.

My apologies.

Indo-European Chronology (IV period)

I think it is important to look into the indo European roots
indoeuro.bizland.com...

2000-1000 BCE: Rome - Indo-European immigrants slowly inhabit Italy by way of the Alps. They bring the horse, the wheeled cart, and artistic knowledge of bronze work to the Italian peninsula. Two different groups, the Greeks and the Etruscans, occupy different regions of the peninsula during the eighth century.

753 BCE: Rome - Archeological research indicates that the founders of Rome itself are Italic people who occupy the area south of the Tiber River. By the sixth century BCE, Rome will have become the dominant power of most of its surrounding area. Their conservative government consists of a kingship, resembling the traditional values of the patriarchal family; an assembly, composed of male citizens of military age; and a Senate, comprised of elders who serve as the heads of different community sects.

600 BCE: Rome - The Etruscans, believed to be natives of Asia Minor, establish cities stretching from northern to central Italy. Their major contributions to the Romans are the arch and the vault, gladiatorial combat for entertainment and the study of animals to predict future events. The Greeks establish city-states along the southern coast of Italy and the island of Sicily. Their contributions to the Romans are the basis of the Roman alphabet, many religious concepts and artistic talent as well as mythology.

509 BCE: Rome - The Roman monarchy is overthrown and replaced with a republic. For more than two centuries following the establishment of the Roman Republic, Rome is constantly at war with the other inhabitants of Italy (the Etruscans and the Greeks).

494 BCE: Rome - The first victory of the plebeian class over the patricians results in agreement between the two classes to allow the plebeians to elect officers, tribunes, with the power to veto any unlawful acts of the magistrates.

450 BCE: Rome - The Law of the Twelve Tables is established allowing the plebeians to have knowledge of their relationship to the law. The plebeians are primarily farmers, craftsmen and tradesmen with foreign background. The patricians make up an aristocracy.

31 BCE: Rome - Antony and Cleopatra are defeated by Octavian, ensuring the prosperity of Greek ideals without threat from the eastern principles of despotism. His victory begins a new Roman era, called the Principate or Early Empire. The Senate and army bestow the name of Augustus and emperor ("victorious general") upon Octavian, and he is commonly referred to as Augustus. Having gained more land for Rome than any other ruler before him, Augustus dies in 14 CE with his rule having lasted 44 years.

1 CE: Rome - Though the exact year is not known, a sixth century monk attributes this time to the birth of Jesus of Nazareth in Judea. The first four books of the New Testament (written later) are the only surviving account of Jesus' career which consists of preaching love of God and one's neighbor, healing the sick, teaching humility by example and professing the end of the world and the establishment of heaven.

10 CE: Rome - The Apostle Paul, a Jew from the city of Tarsus in Asia Minor, follows Jesus and forms a Christian Theology. He declares CHRISTIANITY a universal religion and spreads the Gospel throughout the Mediterranean region. Paul fashions the foundations of personal salvation through Jesus Christ. He dies in 67 CE.

14 CE: Rome - With the exception of Claudius' rule (41-54 CE) and his conquest of Britain in 43 CE, the period between the death of Augustus and the rule of Nerva is a period without competent rulers. Caligula (37-41 CE) and Nero (54-68) are two brutal tyrants who contribute to the violence in Rome.
eawc.evansville.edu...
20-200 CE: Rome - For almost two centuries, philosophy, literature, architecture, art and engineering thrive in the Roman world. The most influential thought during the Principate is a form of STOICISM very different from the original Hellenistic thought. The Roman Stoics are interested in politics and ethics with a heavy emphasis on religious values, rather than physical theories. The three most important Stoics of the Roman world are Nero's advisor, Seneca (4 BCE-65 CE); a slave named Epictetus (60-120 CE); and the Emperor Marcus Aurelius (121-180 CE). The ultimate goal of Roman Stoicism is inner peace and an awareness that true happiness is found only in submission to the order of universe.

I skipped a lot, but posted to significant time lines.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


According to Roman mythology, Rome was founded by Troy. There is a thread, somewhere, on ATS that fully documents the myths and influence, of Troy, on the ancient world. It was the first human settlement after the great food and destruction of Atlantis.

I shall go and find it for you

en.wikipedia.org...

books.google.com... CWTMvLGpaLnAft8NC1CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Latium%20atlantis&f=false

Latium (Latin: Lătĭŭm) is the region of central western Italy in which the city of Rome was founded and grew to be the capital city of the Roman Empire. Latium was originally a small triangle of fertile, volcanic soil on which resided the tribe of the Latins.

Earliest known Latium was the country of the Latini, a tribe whose recognized center was a large, extinct volcano, Mons Albanus ("the Alban Mount", today's Colli Albani), 20 km (12 mi) to the southeast of Rome, 64 km (40 mi) in circumference. In its center is a crater lake, Lacus Albanus (Lago Albano), oval in shape, a few km long and wide. At the top of the second-highest peak (Monte Cavo) was a temple to Jupiter Latiaris, where the Latini held state functions before their subjection to Rome, and the Romans subsequently held religious and state ceremonies.

OK all decedents from Atlantis , mystery solved, time for a nap.

All roads lead to Atlantis?

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

According to Roman mythology, Rome was founded by Troy. There is a thread, somewhere, on ATS that fully documents the myths and influence, of Troy, on the ancient world. It was the first human settlement after the great food and destruction of Atlantis.

I shall go and find it for you

sure

reply to post by infinite

According to Roman mythology, Rome was founded by Troy.

That's the problem it is mythology that is unverifiable.

Originally posted by masqua
Tell me where Proto said that Rome (as in Emporers, etc) wrote the religious texts, and I'll debate him on that as well. It's a ridiculous statement.

Source

Yes I am saying everything has been fabricated, primarily through Josephos a Roman Jew, who gave us the first non-biblical historical accounts of the Hebrew Religion. Rome wrote the Bible

reply to post by SLAYER69


Except that Josephus is a historian and not an Emperor.

So are we really just going to pretend that substituting how I said Rome has controlled our history through a Historian such as Josephus is really an answer to Masqua's question?

Here is an idea how about trying to contribute something positive to the thread.

In the way of some on topic factual information that helps clarify things instead of trying to confuse it further.

Maybe you don't know who Josephus is? If not, reading the thread and the links would give you some excellent background to learning these things, instead of misrepresenting a well known ancient historian, as being a Emperor.

Thanks.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by masqua
Tell me where Proto said that Rome (as in Emporers, etc) wrote the religious texts, and I'll debate him on that as well. It's a ridiculous statement.

Source

Yes I am saying everything has been fabricated, primarily through Josephos a Roman Jew, who gave us the first non-biblical historical accounts of the Hebrew Religion. Rome wrote the Bible

Now lets look at what really was said.

Yes I am saying everything has been fabricated, primarily through Josephos a Roman Jew, who gave us the first non-biblical historical accounts of the Hebrew Religion.

Rome wrote the Bible, and while people love it, the truth is, it's like taking the letters of a mass murderer, at trial, and saying but...he says this in his letters, and he says that in his letters, therefore, this must be true.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

By dishonestly taking the quote out of context and altering the paragraph structure you have attempted to distort what was actually said.

How about honestly engaging in the debate and bringing something HONEST and positive towards it.

Further I imagine because you didn't know Josephus was an HISTORIAN and not an EMPEROR that you are also ignorant of the First and Second Councils of Nicea held by Rome to formulate the Bible, which it then published as the Holy ROMAN Bible, Roman being the key word there.

So please explain in your own words, how you feel this was answering Masqua's question?

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Hey Proto,

I was posting something on topic. He asked a question. I responded. I could be wrong in my interpretation of the question....

Tell me where Proto said that Rome (as in Emporers, etc) wrote the religious texts, and I'll debate him on that as well. It's a ridiculous statement.

Source

Yes I am saying everything has been fabricated, primarily through Josephos a Roman Jew, who gave us the first non-biblical historical accounts of the Hebrew Religion. Rome wrote the Bible

reply to post by SLAYER69


Actually his question was very specific and your use of a rearranged out of context quote to try to dishonestly answer it, is not actually attempting to answer the question.

It's an attempt at willful and dishonest misrepresentation unbeffiting to ATS and it's members.

It's simply trolling the thread to create controversy and derail it from it's topic.

Specifically how do you feel your taking an out of context quote rearranging the structure of it, bolding a snippette after rearranging it, answers Masqua's question of did Proto say an Emperpor wrote the Bible.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Tell me where Proto said that Rome (as in Emporers, etc) wrote the religious texts, and I'll debate him on that as well. It's a ridiculous statement.

Since you've used my quote, I feel I must clarify at least one of the words you've decided to bold... that being the 'etc'.

By that I meant to include Roman political authority as represented by the Senate, Ceasars and Emporers. The various sects, which prior to 300AD consisted of just about every cult and religion within the far reaches of the empire, were NOT involved in the polical fray other than the temporary prominence afforded through the beliefs held by the most powerful and rich (like emporers).

So... when I said "(as in Emporers, etc)", I meant the politicians and certainly not the learned Josephus.

I'm a little shocked that you did not know who he was:

"Flavius Josephus (c. A.D. 37-100) was born to an aristocratic Jewish family, served as a priest, and later became the commander of Jewish forces in Galilee following the revolt against Rome that began A.D. 66. Captured by the Romans, Josephus spent his later life in Rome under the patronage of the Roman emperors where he composed his history of the Jewish people and his account of the Jewish war that led to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in A.D. 70."

www.theistic-evolution.com...

You'd do well to read Chapter 3.

Rebellion of the Jews against Pontius Pilate. Concerning Christ, and what befell Paulina and the Jews at Rome.

I believe it contains the ONLY historically recorded account of a living, breathing Jesus Christ. (this is why I'm surprised)

Originally posted by masqua

I'm a little shocked that you did not know who he was:

I believe it contains the ONLY historically recorded account of a living, breathing Jesus Christ. (this is why I'm surprised)

Thanks Masqua.

I'm a little shocked people assumed I didn't know who he was. I never stated that I didn't.
I must have missed the part about Roman historian Carius Cornelius Tacitus .

Tacitus, in writing about accusations that Nero burned the city of Rome and blamed it on Christians, said the following:

". . .Nero procured others to be accused, and inflicted exquisite punishment upon those people, who were in abhorrence for their crimes, and were commonly known by the name of Christians. They had their denomination from Christus (Christ, dm.), who in the reign of Tibertius was put to death as a criminal by the procurator Pontius Pilate. . . .At first they were only apprehended who confessed themselves of that sect; afterwards a vast multitude discovered by them, all of which were condemned, not so much for the crime of burning the city, as for their enmity to mankind. . . ." (Tacitus, Annals, 15, 44).

Anyway it doesn't matter.

Thanks again.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Since we're now arguing the veracity of historians on the historical Jesus, which, in my humble opinion, has absolutely nada to do with Christianity being used as a tool for the pacification and decline of the Roman empire in the first instance and the general conspiratorial direction of the thread OP encapsulating the following ~1600 years of history, I'm afraid I must rebut your Tacitus quote as being of questionable authority.

A survey of the literature indicates that this citation by Tacitus has not been given enough regard, having often been overshadowed by the citations in Josephus (see next entry). Respected Christian scholar R. T. France, for example, does not believe that the Tacitus passage provides sufficient independent testimony for the existence of Jesus [Franc.EvJ, 23] and agrees with G. A. Wells that the citation is of little value.

www.tektonics.org...

reply to post by SLAYER69

I'm a little shocked people assumed I didn't know who he was. I never stated that I didn't.
I must have missed the part about Roman historian Carius Cornelius Tacitus .

Probably because you didn't say anything in the post beyond taking an out of context and then structurally altered quote to try to make it appear that you had provided an answer to the question.

The question being: show me where Proto said an emperor wrote the Bible.

So since you used nothing but Masqua’s words, and my words purposefully misrepresented, it sure did appear you were claiming Josephus was an emperor.

So once again, maybe if you actually focused in on the topic of the thread, and started by at least reading the opening piece, where I include a link to who Josephus was, and then attempted to make some lucid, structured, honest high quality posts, people wouldn’t have to assume.

See that’s the risk when you purposefully alter and misconstrue other people's words hoping people will assume you actually answered a question that you didn’t actually answer at all, just to try to get others to support a false contention and conduct a thinly veiled personal attack.

So once again for anyone confused, the topic of the thread is Rome how it uses religion, banking, media, science, medicine, and the military to build a one world empire.

No one needs to assume anything when people actually take the time to clarify what it is they are attempting to say.

Thanks.

Anyway it doesn't matter.

Actually it does, to people trying to focus in on topic and have an honest high quality discussion in the spirit of ATS.

That would actually focus in on the subject matter of the thread, and not focusing in on a question, posed to another member in response to them dishonestly misconstruing the same thing you attempted to do as a thinly veiled personal attack just as you decided to do too.

In a opening post alone that spans 45 pages in a word processor, isn't it strange that the only thing you find worthy to respond to is those kinds of posts?

I think so.

In my humble opinion, everyone who is trying to harm this thread, are doing so because they feel the popularity and quality of this thread, is a threat to their own perception of the world and theory they shown in their respective own ATS' threads . They aggressively try to attack you, beleiving it will make them feel better, more secured and make them look stronger but on the contrary it is quite the opposite.

I went to see each of their own theories in their threads and posts and beleive me...it is nothing compare to your research results. I guess all of those, who made big discoveries and made history, had to go by what you have to endure here.

reply to post by masqua


Thanks for the reply Masqua.

Your opinion on the topic is appreciated.

Good night.

PEACE

Slay

I don't post here to much because this site has become actually became a insignificant social site.

It is with that said,I must commend the O.P. for his diligence with this post.

Unfortunately he has gotten many things incorrect.

It is easy to say things about the Knights Templar because it has been 700 years since they exist as a organization.

To say they are controlled by the church today is even more laughable.

To even further that by saying the Masonic organization of today is affiliated with them is even more ignorant.

Does the O.P. even know that the Papacy forbids a Catholic from being a member of the Masonic Lodges?

The O.P. had plenty of opportunity to come to the logical conclusion that of the THREE organizations of Knights involved in the Crusades.

The BAVARIAN Illuminati were most possibly a direct descendant of the TEUTONIC order of knights.

The only order of Knights from that period that still exists is the Hospitalliers of Saint John.

They still do what they were set up to do.

They operate Catholic hospitals.

There are Saint John's Catholic hospitals worldwide.

The Knights Templar may have disappeared from the scene publicly but there is evidence that some of the order went to Portugal and most of their fleet of ships were used by the Portuguese to explore the world.

Many Templars went to Switzerland.There is a reason Switzerland is the European banking center and a historically neutral country.

There is also a reason why the Vatican is guarded by Swiss Guards.

One country in South American enjoys and has seemingly always been a economic and politically stable country.

Brazil was a Portuguese colony.

The Knights Templar and the Teutonic order had an alliance.

One must look at these 3 orders to understand the European situation today.

Even the reformation which began in Germany was began from descendants of Teutonic Knights.

The issues today we see taking place are direct results of Catholic intervention in their perceived loss of lands and constituents to the Teutonic order of Knights.

Even the political upheaval that we all know of today in the lands where Orthodox Christianity is the norm is directly related to interventionist practices of the Catholic church.

Now the O.P. should spend sometime researching why the "Shroud of Turin" is kept where it is.What family controlled that area parts of Europe(France)and even the Christian controlled areas of the Holy land during and before the period of the crusades began and why the Knights Templar may have had the "Shroud" in their possession at one time.

Whose burial shroud is it actually?

The experts say it is from the early 1100's and it is from the area around Jerusalem or Tyre.