I was a believer....now Im not sure....

I have a very vivid "memory" (and I use this loosely as it could have arisen from anything) from my childhood that compelled me to believe in E.T's, UFO's etc but recently I've been doubting my belief.

While I still believe that there are most likely 1000's if not millions of solar systems out there with life, and many with advanced beings with sentience, I find myself finding it very hard to believe we are being "visited" now, this second by anything other than over inflated imaginations, and bloated egos seeking attention.

Ive come to this conclusion from a number of observations, common sense reasoning, and plain old facts....

1. 95% of UFO's can be explained away, some anomalies in the atmosphere, magnetic field disruption, satelittes, junk in space re-entering and burning up, meteor showers, ball lightning, balloons, military test flights, and dare I say it, swamp gas!! The list is endless.

That still leaves 5%, but just because we cant explain it, due to missing information, tricks of the eye etc, it doesnt mean its alien being come to say hello.

2. Hoaxers and immature attention seeking bastards! Im sorry for the harsh words, but these IDIOTS, need to grow up and get a damn life. Ufology is interesting enough even when you take aliens out of the equation, its stimulating and even satisfying if/when you finally work out what the "hell was that?" and in the process you might even learn something that you didnt know before about swamp gas!

3. This day in age, everyone has got a camera/video phone, many not so great quality, others excellent and a whole lot inbetween....thus, why is its that theres not ONE, a single ONE video or photo that provides credible evidence that I have seen of aliens, craft or anything else of that manner.

How is it that people that frequent air shows, can get pretty good videos of fighter jets flying around at god knows what speed with moderate camera phones, yet when it comes to these supposed "alien craft" the camera operators suddenly contract the inability to focus, except on lamp posts, and develop a heavy dose of Parkinsons disease (I mean no disrespect to sufferers of this awful disease btw!)


Im having a rant, but is anyone else on the same wavelength around here?

congratulations on using your head.

don't discredit UFOs entirely, but you're now in a prime position to wade through the ocean of crap in search of the exceedingly rare puzzling cases that make you think.

you're obviously thinking critically - just analyze the evidence with extreme scrutiny and make up your own mind now. id also recommend not wasting your time with any purely anecdotal "evidence".

heh Ive already waded through that ocean of crap and got tired of swimming frantically with little reward

Im now partial to sitting in front of my warm fire and await thier knock on my front door....im done swimming.

I see a fine point here, i have seen weird things in the sky and thats no bull but it is a unidentified flying object not an et.

my motto, believe it when I see it

I really don't know why some people hoaxers waste their precious time editing and pasting lol

Hey there,

You must have been reading a lot of ufo threads lately where some particular ATS members have been on a great campaign debunking ufos as of lately. Yes, while you are correct that many sightings can be explained away, but 5% is still a very very large number to consider.

There are also many videos out there showing clear, unedited sightings but once left to the professional debunker, you begin to second guess yourself. This is their angle. Not actually disproving the UFO but rather imprinting in your mind that it COULD be something mundane. Then you get bored, disenfranchised, and move on.

They are here, I've seen them and my experience defies ALL and I mean all mundane answers to explain it away.

reply to post by FlySolo


it's called critical thinking, not "debunking". and the 5%? a completely arbitrary number used to express how the vast majority of cases are, for lack of a better term, bull#. not to mention, you put too much trust in your own senses. I have seen a UFO too - in broad daylight at close range, no less - and I am not anywhere near naive enough to assume it could not be explained logically, nor jump to the conclusion it was extraterrestrial.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by JScytale]

Hey FlySolo,

I dont care about them being debunked....if something is posted, and someone makes an observation that makes sense, which suggests its NOT a UFO...thats all cool with me.

I make up my own mind in the end, and take on board any constructive argument or suggestion about its origin and identity and form my decision on what I think it is from that.

And your right 5% is a large number, but if 95% have been rightly explained, then that surely must mean that some of that 5% are also explainable should all or better information be available?

I like everyone else on earth has seen one or more weird things in the sky that cant be explained, but that doesnt mean you should make a poster and stand on a sky scraper Independence Day style

My main gripe is the lack of real evidence, when we are at a point where the ability to capture anything like tangible video, photo or even sound is everywhere.

Crunch the numbers....there are 3 BILLION cameras on earth, and apparently aliens are visiting all the time....yet not ONE has captured a photo thats clear proof which the debunkers can not debunk?

reply to post by JScytale


I wouldn't call it critical thinking. I've seen many many countless "critical thinking" overlook common sense. They'll spew out answers that are ridiculas. IE: advertising balloons in the dead of winter over a spot light that no one can see. Just because balloons are a more plausible answer

[edit on 23-4-2010 by FlySolo]

Originally posted by FlySolo
Just because balloons are a more plausible answer

Exactly.

Originally posted by fuserleer

Crunch the numbers....there are 3 BILLION cameras on earth, and apparently aliens are visiting all the time....yet not ONE has captured a photo thats clear proof which the debunkers can not debunk?

That's not the problem. People HAVE captured clear photos but when they are too clear, the skeptics yell from their balconies FAKE! too clear! and when they're blurry, same answer visa versa.

reply to post by JScytale


Exactly? Exactly my point. Just because the shoe fits, doesn't mean it is your shoe. Where is the critical thinking in that?

what photos are these??

The only clear photos Ive seen are things like hub caps on a string hanging from a tree, or a crisp black disc in the sky with no detail.

If someone took a photo of a real honest "alien craft" from 100-200 feet away, with all the detail that current phones/cameras can capture...then they might shout fake...but....you wouldnt be able to debunk it.

Think of all the detail that would be in that picture, you might get a heat haze, or some other disruption of the air/surroundings due to the propulsion system.

Weathering of the craft...just because they are aliens, elements are still suseptable to weathering and general wear and tear, or do they polish thier crafts before then come down?

Trees blowing nearby from it moving around, or water movements, it in our atmosphere, so no matter its propulsion it will still move air around, and that air will have an effect on other things.

Windows, lights, sounds, dents, shadows that dont look odd...I could go on all night.

Originally posted by fuserleer

And your right 5% is a large number, but if 95% have been rightly explained, then that surely must mean that some of that 5% are also explainable should all or better information be available?

Exactly. I'll take it one step further and say the hypothetical 5% is only evidence of our own ignorance.

reply to post by fuserleer


You are right to draw conclusions based on what "we" know about our own elements. However, this is also a typical contradiction among skeptics regarding a non-speculation-scientific-standardization.

What I mean is, science will never allow for speculation in deducing theories based on what we don't know. It is always compared to the like of things we can measure. When coming to debunking, this rule is thrown out the window on their own accord. We don't know anything about it, how it flys, wear and tear etc.. So therefore, how can we assume to compare it to things we know about?

Keep an open mind. I don't think anyone here has a total lock on all the possibilties within the universe. And in the famous words of
retired Army Sgt. Clifford Stone, who worked on several related UFO projects: "Absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence"

More "food for thought" here if you haven't read it already:

www.thewatcherfiles.com...

[edit on 23-4-2010 by manta78]

reply to post by fuserleer


fuserleer, I can appreciate your position, believe me I can. But I must point out that you are thinking in a third dimensional way, and are using linear thought. These guys use technology that allows them to travel multi-dimensionally, so you must use this kind of thought to process what you see, and remember, our eyes cannot see everything there is to see, we actually see only a small part of the true spectrum of visible light.

Once, about ten years or so ago, I got up at night to use the boys room, and when I went through the door to the living room, there was my son sleeping on the sofa. There were three small grays standing there looking at him, and it was then that I was able to see that a shield of some kind was emitting from his body, preventing them from taking him. The nearest one then noticed me, and they all turned, as if in sequence, and disappeared. They just turned a little bit and were gone.

A few days ago I was outside, it was almost dark. I looked up at the sky, as I am want to do at night, and saw a plane coming toward me. As it drew nearer, I observed a flashing light, which is normal for a plane. Only the light was only one color, white. What the hell, I thought, that plane has a strobe out, and right then it began to do acrobatics that defied what any plane could do, and I am familiar with aircraft. After a bit of this, it resumed normal flight. I saw this alone, and have no video or photo of it. But it was there, in the Ohio sky, as real as an be.

Please do not discount these things based on you not seeing them, they have a technology that is beyond normal human understanding.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by fuserleer

 

fuserleer, I can appreciate your position, believe me I can. But I must point out that you are thinking in a third dimensional way, and are using linear thought. These guys use technology that allows them to travel multi-dimensionally, so you must use this kind of thought to process what you see, and remember, our eyes cannot see everything there is to see, we actually see only a small part of the true spectrum of visible light.

Once, about ten years or so ago, I got up at night to use the boys room, and when I went through the door to the living room, there was my son sleeping on the sofa. There were three small grays standing there looking at him, and it was then that I was able to see that a shield of some kind was emitting from his body, preventing them from taking him. The nearest one then noticed me, and they all turned, as if in sequence, and disappeared. They just turned a little bit and were gone.

A few days ago I was outside, it was almost dark. I looked up at the sky, as I am want to do at night, and saw a plane coming toward me. As it drew nearer, I observed a flashing light, which is normal for a plane. Only the light was only one color, white. What the hell, I thought, that plane has a strobe out, and right then it began to do acrobatics that defied what any plane could do, and I am familiar with aircraft. After a bit of this, it resumed normal flight. I saw this alone, and have no video or photo of it. But it was there, in the Ohio sky, as real as an be.

Please do not discount these things based on you not seeing them, they have a technology that is beyond normal human understanding.

That's absolutely amazing!!! You caught them red handed? Outstanding, it must have redefined your world

I don't think there will ever be undeniable proof of alien visitation. The higher quality a photograph or video is, the more likely it will be simply written off as a hoax. Even if it was all over the MSM and the tube that an alien landed at the white house, there would still be plenty of people who could not accept it and call it a big hoax. With the track record of the news outlets I wouldn't really blame them either. You doubt even your own memories as a reliable source of information, so would anything short of a personal encounter allow you to change your mind?

I agree with you that alien visitation seems improbable. Evidence is polluted by attention seekers and fraudsters, but there is still evidence to support the idea. Eyewitness testimony by some people may be considered very solid evidence. While I can agree that most of the stories are probably bunk, it would be equally improbable that 100% of the stories and photos are false. Some people have very negative repercussions from telling their stories, would those people continue to do so for the sake of attention?

If you can take a UFO sighting and rule out everything you know as a possibility, such as atmospheric conditions, meteorites, etc. you still have the very real possibility of human creations that we are not publicly aware of. I think if I was flying a classified vehicle though I wouldn't be flashing its colored strobe lights while hanging around a populated area. I might do that if I was an alien trying to get a message to humanity, if the government wasn't allowing the message to be delivered directly.

My point is that it does make sense to be critical, to me it doesn't make sense to completely rule out the possibility quite yet. There's just too much of it out there to simply ignore.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by fuserleer

 

Once, about ten years or so ago, I got up at night to use the boys room, and when I went through the door to the living room, there was my son sleeping on the sofa. There were three small grays standing there looking at him, and it was then that I was able to see that a shield of some kind was emitting from his body, preventing them from taking him. The nearest one then noticed me, and they all turned, as if in sequence, and disappeared. They just turned a little bit and were gone.

And after that incident you have a camera at an arms reach 24/7 right?

ive seen things in my life time that fully prove ufos....weather from this planet or a next they exist.

There are clear pictures and videos on yotube and around teh internet, even HD ones but it seems the clearer the image the more people want to write it off as a hoax.

As for "aliens" , i do think there are other species of life out there...but what i dont get is why people find it so hard to believe. I mean look around you , look at the world and all thats in it . I wouldnt be suprised if "aliens" came down...

This place is too amazing