Insanity via the Iranian "threat".

Given the facts, you'd think that by now people would be over the ludicrous idea of the Iranian "THREAT". Given the truth that the "news" is mostly lies & distortions (propaganda), you'd think that people wouldn't listen to the Iran issue just for that reason. Given the reality that the Iranian revolution, that incident involving the US Embassy (that was filled with CIA agents trying to control their government) is their 4th of July from US, you'd think that people would actually feel guilt and remorse for being the tyrants we once rebelled from.

But we have a long way to go in the quest for being a sensible and rational people.

To get down to sanity, lets go over the reality of the situation:

1. The US military spends as much on child care as Iran does on their entire military budget.

2. Even if Iran managed a nuke, or dozens, Israel has 200-300 warheads and the US has thousands, many of which are attached to ICBM's.

3. The US has bases surrounding their borders.


4. US has invaded Iran's neighbors on each side (the most strategic ones who wouldn't allow US bases willingly):

Think about it:


5. Iran has never attacked their neighbors, nor any other nation militarily. The US has attacked or subverted most of the globe, with a striking death toll:
America's death toll on the world: 27,000,000++

6. Iran hasn't tried to overthrow the US government. The US has overthrown the Iranian government in the past (Operation AJAX), and is trying to currently.

7. Iran wasn't connected to the 9/11 attackers: Al Qaeda. The US helped invent Islamic Terrorism including Al Qaeda, used Al Qaeda in the Balkins conflict all during the 1990's while Bin Laden was supposedly our enemy, and is using Al Qaeda terrorists to attack Iran.

See here: Al Qaeda: "The CI-A Team"

8. Even if Iran did explicitly threaten the US or Israel (which is in FACT debatable), the US threatened Iran first no later than 9/11 (plus the history of having actually attacked Iran). The truth is the 'foundational quote by the Iranian president, the one about "wiping Israel off the map", was a distorted play on words by the imperialist Media.

9. Iran doesn't have any aircraft carriers. The US has 11+ SUPERcarriers, a class which no other nation has even one.

10. Iran's potential for economic warfare against the "West" in on par with being an annoyance. Economic warfare on part of the US alone can devastate any nation.

11. Iran isn't capable of electronic warfare with the mainland US, nor Israel in any great capacity. The US is capable is disrupting every communications signal in Iran.

12. Iran isn't a hegemonic empire. The US is a hegemonic empire:
766 US Military bases in foreign lands
US Forces in 159 of 193 Nations Worldwide

Lets not all drive ourselves mad people. No foreign nation can destroy the U.S. without destroying themselves. Focus on the real threats, like those domestic.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Sure they are. Any country that defies the USA, Israel or central bankers is a threat to them, no matter if its peaceful.

Any country that seeks to protect itself without the help of the USA is a threat. Any country that wants to be independent from Wall street is a threat.

Most of all, any country that is Muslim is a threat.

You didn't get the memo?

reply to post by VendettaBeretta


Ah. You must be one of those kooky nutter nutjob mental patients believing that lunacy! You must be crazy not losing sleep over the greatest threat to the US since Guatemala!

Any rational person (like yourself) can see what's in front of them and see exactly to what extent Iran can be considered a threat. But that isn't the point, the 'threat propaganda' is merely a tool used to gain support for another war as has been used previously. A war for profit.

The US military industrial complex is a wild bull on the run.

"We were deeply alarmed to learn from the families today of their physical and emotional state of health. We fear their well-being will suffer even more unless their case is resolved without delay," Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said in statement."



whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com...

[edit on 23-4-2010 by freetree64]

reply to post by serbsta


Roger.

Here goes the Iran "THREAT" segment from my full length film "Neocon Wars":


In it you can see the exact parallels in Bush's pro-war rhetoric between Iraq & Iran, and much more.

**Please dont derail the thread talking about audio leveling**

reply to post by freetree64


I'm not sure where you're going with that...

Such nice art work, a logical arguement if one assumes the premises to be valid, however it does miss the point. Iran as a nation, is not stable enough, mature enough, trusted enough, to be allowed to have nuclear weapons. Their ties to terrorist organizations alone puts shivers down most of the free world, Secretly most of the middle east, arab nations, are very fearful of a nuclear Iran.
but above all this alone at the top is the simple truth,

NO ONE TRUST THEM NOT TO USE THEM.

reply to post by Phedreus


Well... who are 'we' to tell anyone what they can or cant have?

Ever heard of the term 'sovereignty' before?

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
reply to post by Phedreus

 

Well... who are 'we' to tell anyone what they can or cant have?

Ever heard of the term 'sovereignty' before?

Iran DO have a right to desire or posses Nuclear weapons.

But just as the saying goes, if you live by the gun, then be prepared to die by the gun. Similarly so Nukes. Nukes came into this world at a time of imminent danger to the free world by Hitler and Martial Japan. US, the only last land mass and society not invaded in the world, rushed to prepare a doomsday weapon to stop the madness created by Hitler, who were also close to developing Nukes on their own.

US won, and Nukes became something that cannot be 'un-made'. China, Russia rushed to create them. France, England, sweated to protect themselves with it. India and Pakistan, knowing the full effects of Nuke fallout, went hellbent to create on their own.

All these nations are aware of the risks they pose to their own innocent men women and child citizens. Nuke stikes are not simple affairs of lobbing one pathetic bomb, then sit down, have a cup of tea and negotiate.

We are talking about MASS LAUNCH. A single button that will trigger every nuke in store to wipe out an entire landmass in one single moment.

Think of how many innocent millions will be dead.

None of these leaders, none at all, had even mentioned one phrase of threat to use it on another nation except in defense. Only the Iranian leadership had threaten to wipeout an entire people, and at a time when they don't even own nukes.

Is this the club innocent men, women and children of Iran wants to join? By all means, if they want to accept such risks. Keep the bomb. Live by it. BUT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

However, such a decision can only be taken by the entire population. Had it been such? Nope. The current Iranian despots rigged elections. They have no mandate to rule. The leadership is acting on their own whims and not at the wishes of the Iranian People.

And on behalf of the innocent Iranian men, women and children, the world had come together to counsel the illegal govt of Iran to re-consider such a course of action that will put the lives of Iranians at great risks.

Soveriegnity can only be upheld if there is a clear mandate by the PEOPLE, and not by some 'magical' force, because it is the People who have to daily live or die with the decisions made by the mandated ruler. The despots, nut heads and brainwashed military in Iran has no mandate to rule.

Please help to avert a great tragedy comming soon to innocent Iranian men, women and children as well as others in the world.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
We are talking about MASS LAUNCH. A single button that will trigger every nuke in store to wipe out an entire landmass in one single moment.

Think of how many innocent millions will be dead.

Pardon me, I had missed a certain overtone in your post last night.

Please help me understand how you're jumping from the narrative is human-nuke history straight into the "Doomsday Machine" in context herein?

None of these leaders, none at all, had even mentioned one phrase of threat to use it on another nation except in defense. Only the Iranian leadership had threaten to wipeout an entire people, and at a time when they don't even own nukes.

The burden of Proof on you to prove that they did such a thing. I've already linked in showing the falseness of the claim about 'wiping people off the map'.

However, such a decision can only be taken by the entire population. Had it been such? Nope. The current Iranian despots rigged elections. They have no mandate to rule. The leadership is acting on their own whims and not at the wishes of the Iranian People.

That sounds an awful lot like most of the other governments the U.S. is allies with across the globe.

Soveriegnity can only be upheld if there is a clear mandate by the PEOPLE, and not by some 'magical' force, because it is the People who have to daily live or die with the decisions made by the mandated ruler. The despots, nut heads and brainwashed military in Iran has no mandate to rule.

Then by that logic the international community needs to get together and take down the tyrants running the United States, as well as the E.U. The problem with that idea is most of the rest of the world are ruled by illegitimate dictatorships, and if our government needs to be rebooted based on the founding documents then that is our business, not nobody elses.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

I'm not so sure about the Iran "has never attacked anyone" line... there was the Russo-Persian Wars in the 19th century.. which ceeded the places like Georgia from Persia to Russia.. Persia was an Empire at this time, and you don't get to be an Emipre by cuddling your neigbour.

Anyway, the Treaty of Gulistan could be deemed the modern start point of the Great Game we still see being played out today.

Ignoring the Great Game that has been played out in the ME for the last 200 years is as big a mistake as placing the burden of guilt on one power i.e the US..

"he who controls the ME controls the world" works just as well for Russia, as it does the USA and China. each are manipulating the situation in their favour, Just as Britian, France and all the other major players have for the last 200 years.

I am not trying to say that US is moral, just equally immoral as the rest of the major players that want to be the one to control the ME or want the twart the others plans at domination and control.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


That sounds an awful lot like a straw man, but I'll play along.

I do think the issue here is whether or not the nation-state known as Iran has attacked her neighbors. It has not.

I'm scratching my head as to why you're referencing the last Turk dynasty that ruled Persia... lifetimes ago?

I do find that the best counter-argument so far admits its all about hegemonic control of the region.

Furthermore, the referncing the Treaty of Gulistan only establishes that Imperial Russia has had border wars with Persia in the past.

While we're at it, I forgot to point out that all roads lead to the U.S. having attacked Iran militiarily via proxy via Iraq.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


The reason I am refering to the Persian Empire and that treaty was that it became final expansion of the Russian Empire into the region (aside from the failed attempt in Afghanistan) and could be defined as the start of the Great Game..

With Persian's failed link up with France, Britain steps in on the Persian side, for selfless reasons (not) to block Russian Empire Building.

I feel, this is the point in which the region becomes a greater focal point of the Empire builders.. at the time it was to protect British interests in India, while now it is all about oil.. The bottom line is Resource and Wealth..

With oil, the addage, "He who controls the ME control the world" take on a very serious and deadly meaning, especially with dwindling new oil resources.. or at least new resources that can be cheaply stolen from mother nature as they can in places like Iran.

But as in the Great Game, all the big boys want control, so I find it hard to single out and blame one of those big boys when they are all at it.. As far as I am concerned they are all equally responsible. (tho some more responsible than others )

On the war side it is also the last point (Prior to the revolution) that Persia/Iran has enough control of their own nation to wage war in their own right, and not as a puppet or proxy.. and I feel that is important to mention since for the best part of the last 200 years Persia/Iran has sat under British and then the US thumb..

It is and will always be about Empire building, either building your own Empire or blocking your opponents Empire, the sad part are those that are caught in the middle, and if this kicks off, then it will be a sad day for humanity.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


I dig.

Can't disapprove of discussing the history of imperialism.

Now if only we could get some more people in here to debate this idea of attacking etc Iran...

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


I am the current big guy on the block, and as a stable, nation, based upon peaceful ideals, and as a force for good in the world, as a nation that has seen firsthand the consequences of nuclear weapons, and their use, as a leader of the free world, it is my responsibility, my moral imperative, to see that a country such as Iran, is not allowed to posess such weapons at this time.

With freedom comes responsibility, we have spent the last 30 yrs. trying desperately to forget that.

Originally posted by Phedreus
reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

 

I am the current big guy on the block, and as a stable, nation, based upon peaceful ideals, and as a force for good in the world, as a nation that has seen firsthand the consequences of nuclear weapons, and their use, as a leader of the free world, it is my responsibility, my moral imperative, to see that a country such as Iran, is not allowed to posess such weapons at this time.

With freedom comes responsibility, we have spent the last 30 yrs. trying desperately to forget that.

Have you ever tallied up the death total from the US's efforts to expand its influence and defend capitalism on every continent, their hat is at best dark brown not the dazzling white they'd have us believe. It's easy to play the nice guy when you have the vast preponderance of assets to bribe folk with.

OP, that's the best most accurate assessment of the Iran issue I've seen here recently clearly exposing the deathly hypocrisy of the West UK/USA in particular.

Originally posted by Thepreye
Have you ever tallied up the death total from the US's efforts to expand its influence and defend capitalism on every continent,

I tried to a couple years ago:

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
5. Iran has never attacked their neighbors, nor any other nation militarily. The US has attacked or subverted most of the globe, with a striking death toll:
America's death toll on the world: 27,000,000++

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
not losing sleep over the greatest threat to the US since Guatemala!

That just sums up the world, the anglo american empire vs guatemala.

How about bigger mismatch the americans vs innocent individuals that have nothing to do with them, they just want to live, but the anglo american empire goes round just trying to destroy and murder anyone they can, just as long as they are easily the biggest imaginable bully in the world.

Talk about easy targets.

Iran is not going near anyone, but oh no, here comes the anglo american empire comes again, and watch out iran, with no history of doing anything against these people, the americans want to bomb them.

Amazing, and its amazing how these tv shows in america see individuals that have nothing to do with america as a threat.

No one is doing anything to america, and they just make this stuff up, and quick theres a bogey man.

[edit on 4/25/2010 by andy1033]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


What is your problem?

Which nation had never been to war before and fought in combat?

Why villify US or UK just to make Iran look good when right now, in this current state of affairs, the illegitimate govt of Iran is clearly pushing for Nukes without the mandate of its people, threatening its neighbours, supporting terrorists that kills innocent men, women and children, basically lying through its teeth to the international community to stall time while it builds up its nuke capability?

Aren't you just ignoring what will happen to the innocent iranian men, women and children as well as others in the world if the Iranian leadership continues its destructive path?

Why allow hatred to blind you to facts?