Our Children almost lost their Innocence

When my kids asked age-appropriate questions, I answered them directly and without a long explanation. When they asked about things they were too young to know I told them that some knowledge is too heavy to carry.

Just like backpacks that are weighted down, some knowledge is too heavy for small children and that adults carry that knowledge until the kids are old enough to carry it themselves.

My kids all seemed to accept that. Even after they grew up and left the house, they were still asking questions on some stuff. I wanted them to know they could always confide in me, without judgment or ridicule.

There have been times I'm glad they asked while we were on the phone because then they didn't have to see my jaw hit the floor but once I regained my composure, I'd answer the question.

Small children DO NOT need to be exposed to this sensitive information, especially in the impersonal and frequently hostile environment of school.

My parents were oh-so-subtle and left a book lying about for me to read: Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Sex But Were Afraid To Ask.

Great book, btw. I'm in favor of letting the parents do the job of parents and letting the teachers do the job of teachers. I won't tell them how to do their job or usurp their authority if they'll extend the same courtesy to me.

Our children have lost their innocence.

Look at the society that they are embedded into.

Want to have fun? Get drunk

Want to be cool? Have sex.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
reply to post by AccessDenied

 

I disagree with your first part. A kindergarten kid can recall what the color blue "means". They may not use that knowledge for days, weeks, months, but they still will be able to recall blue when they see blue.

Yes, a color is simple, something they can easily identify.

"Oh look, mommy has a blue skirt on, just like my teacher."

When we're talking about the human body, and it's changes, this is a parents responsibility.

Not school, nor Government, nor any other adult.

There are avenues where it is taught by an adult with parental consent.

As long as the parents have consented, knowingly, but this is a slippery slope.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
What's so wrong with telling them this is a penis, this is a vagina? (not to mention the OP says body parts, including the correct terms for the genitalia, which leads me to believe it includes more then just the genitals.)

Do I really need to point out all of the idiotic teachers taking advantage of children?

Sexually.

There's no way I ever want a teacher near my child like that.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
Fair enough that you want to teach your kids this stuff, but what happens to that kid with the parent that refuses to even discuss something like this? My mom never did. My sex ed from her was "if you have sex while living in my house and I find out, you are dead" that was it. If that was all I got, I would have been screwed.

Obviously, your mother had a bad, and I mean bad means of teaching responsibly.

A parent must be comfortable speaking with their children.

If they are not, because of a hang-up, they honestly should never have had children.

I am not attacking you, nor your mother, but our responsibility as adults is to our children, and when we slough it off, Government steps in.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
Again I'll ask, has any lesson break down been put out so we can REALLY decide if this is such a bad thing?

By the time this happens it is far too late and parents see it as one less thing they need to teach, sloughing off responsibility, and then wonder why their children no longer speak to them, because Government has taught them how to think as pre-programmed robots.

While AccessDenied has expressed her point of view, and I do understand yours as well, iamsupermanv2, we as a society cannot allow Government, any Government, of any nation, tell us how to raise our children.

Nor can we allow them direct and or indirect access to information in which we are socially responsible, because it is reprehensible, because it gives way too much control over how our children are educated towards control of their bodies and minds, and we have to make it our foundations.

Not our Government's.

Our foundations in which our children are strengthened, no one else.

Otherwise, we get where we are today, when everything is about taking away freedoms.

Instead of keeping them.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
reply to post by AccessDenied

 

I disagree with your first part. A kindergarten kid can recall what the color blue "means". They may not use that knowledge for days, weeks, months, but they still will be able to recall blue when they see blue.

What's so wrong with telling them this is a penis, this is a vagina? (not to mention the OP says body parts, including the correct terms for the genitalia, which leads me to believe it includes more then just the genitals.)

Fair enough that you want to teach your kids this stuff, but what happens to that kid with the parent that refuses to even discuss something like this? My mom never did. My sex ed from her was "if you have sex while living in my house and I find out, you are dead" that was it. If that was all I got, I would have been screwed.

Again I'll ask, has any lesson break down been put out so we can REALLY decide if this is such a bad thing?

Then you missed the second point of my post entirely- what the lessons lead to after they are taught, and the consequences after the fact.
You will have these children trying to act out the adult situations they are being taught.
"Oh! so that's what I have a penis/vagina are for!"
Like I said..it could EASILY lead to a situation where their curiosity causes the molestation of another child. It could cause inappropriate questions or actions in the presence of other adults.
Quite simply, when you teach children how to do something, what is the first thing they do?
They run and tell their friends..and they TRY TO DO IT.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by AccessDenied]

reply to post by AccessDenied

"Grade 1 — Body parts, including correct terminology for genitalia

Grade 2 — Stages of human development

Grade 3 — Healthy relationships, differences and how they make humans unique (discussion could include sexual orientation, physical abilities, cultural values)

Grade 4 — Puberty and physical/social impact (currently taught in Gr. 5)

Grade 5 — Reproductive system, menstruation, spermatogenesis, emotional stresses of puberty"

Notice how it doesn't talk about the reproductive system until what? 5th grade? They didnt put it at First grade for a reason. They know that 6-7 year old children would take that differently.

At first grade, they just tell you what it is, not what it does. At that point, they do know all that they need to...that's how you pee.

It has been a while but..one is around 12 years old in 5th grade? Is that REALLY too young to learn about the reproductive system? Notice it does not say "how to have sex" just the reproductive system. In a purely biological sense, all that would be involved in the reproductive system is how it works. Not how to do "it".

Again, do you have access to what the individual lessons?

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
reply to post by AccessDenied

 

"Grade 1 — Body parts, including correct terminology for genitalia

Grade 2 — Stages of human development

Grade 3 — Healthy relationships, differences and how they make humans unique (discussion could include sexual orientation, physical abilities, cultural values)

Grade 4 — Puberty and physical/social impact (currently taught in Gr. 5)

Grade 5 — Reproductive system, menstruation, spermatogenesis, emotional stresses of puberty"

Notice how it doesn't talk about the reproductive system until what? 5th grade? They didnt put it at First grade for a reason. They know that 6-7 year old children would take that differently.

At first grade, they just tell you what it is, not what it does. At that point, they do know all that they need to...that's how you pee.

It has been a while but..one is around 12 years old in 5th grade? Is that REALLY too young to learn about the reproductive system? Notice it does not say "how to have sex" just the reproductive system. In a purely biological sense, all that would be involved in the reproductive system is how it works. Not how to do "it".

Again, do you have access to what the individual lessons?

Access to the individual lesson..did you read the OP at all, or skim it?
The proposed curriculum WAS WITHDRAWN after public outcry. This isn't my stance alone.
I'm surprised you still think it ok for 10-11 year olds to talk about sex.
And again, you missed my points of the OTHER situations it could lead to.
This isn't a cut and dried case of, teach them what they need to know to be healthy adults...not by a long shot.

reply to post by AccessDenied


I'll say it again:

The proposed plan that you put forth in your OP never said a thing about SEX until 5th grade. I really dont think it is wrong to learn anatomy at a young age. It would get rid of all of those nasty words we came up with for our organs out of ignorance or shame to say the correct word. Not to mention overall make us more comfortable with our bodies.

I also have more faith in humanity that we would not turn into a bunch of sex fiends just because we know what's going on. I understand kids should be treated with "kid gloves" but I feel what was proposed was very sensitive.

And yes, I do read through the posts before I reply. My point on asking what the actual lessons were was all this hullabaloo for what?

I understand we will probably never agree on this, hence my idea for the compromise that you allow the parents to decide via a permission slip, because lets be honest, not all parents teach their children.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Sir, I will say first that you present a very well put together argument, I have noticed it since my first day here and I respect you immensely.

Because of the way you present things, I have very little room to debate, because you do make a very strong argument, mainly about government take over pretty much.

I AGREE!

It is a slippery slope. But maybe this happening will wake some of us up ya know?

But, because I come from one of those households where I wasn't told what's what in my "special area" (by the way, zero offense taken) I think the more you can teach a kid the better, while keeping age appropriate. (the definition of age appropriate is proably the big difference here)

Like I said to AD, we probably won't agree, and I'm ok with that, I'm just sharing my POV. I also understand I am very liberal on this stance, but hey, we are all different.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Sir, I will say first that you present a very well put together argument, I have noticed it since my first day here and I respect you immensely.

Thank you.

Know I respect you as well.

I had to learn to not only fight with my fists but with my words.

And fighting with my words turned into Office Politics through knowledge.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
Because of the way you present things, I have very little room to debate, because you do make a very strong argument, mainly about government take over pretty much.

I AGREE!

Well, we debate based upon our life experiences, or our knowledge levels.

I do leave room to disagree and or debate or else I might be seen as a dictator.

Trust me, I had to learn to leave room, and remember others have valid opinions.

Even if I disagree.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
It is a slippery slope. But maybe this happening will wake some of us up ya know?

I agree, it will wake people up, but just how quickly or slowly?

The problem is, as people awake, they miss that others "sleep".

And when children come into the picture, we have to maintain awareness.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
But, because I come from one of those households where I wasn't told what's what in my "special area" (by the way, zero offense taken) I think the more you can teach a kid the better, while keeping age appropriate. (the definition of age appropriate is proably the big difference here)

I do agree with you.

My parents never had that discussion with me either.

When I was pulled out of Public School and home schooled, for High School, my mother placed a note in my Science book, in regards to biology.

The note mentioned if I had questions to ask her and that was the extent of our discussion.

I never asked her question 1 since I knew far more than that book at that time.

I was an avid reader, much as I am now, and I always read on diverse topics.

I learned however from my parents mistakes.

Just like you have learned from your mothers.

Which has lead you to disagree but understand where AccessDenied is coming from.

I can see you're at a mid-point with her thoughts and you do share ideals with her.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
Like I said to AD, we probably won't agree, and I'm ok with that, I'm just sharing my POV. I also understand I am very liberal on this stance, but hey, we are all different.

There is far too much at stake here in our world when it comes to our children.

And we have to be the person who they can discuss all things maturely.

Not every parent will be like yours or mine, or even AccessDenied.

Personally, I am grateful for loving parents, but I learned more about sex on the School Bus from promiscuous and non-Christian's than School or my parents taught me, and that's something I know I regret.

I did not end up having sex until I was 20/21 because of my beliefs.

It had nothing to do with learning about sex at a specific time.

Trust that you have found a new friend and as well you have shared your ideas.

As well, trust that AccessDenied is a mother who is strongly concerned.

While I am not a parent, yet, I do understand her level of concern.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Here's the deal - from my point of view at least.

My 7yr old son (that would be 1st grade) was taught about his private areas at school this past week. He was taught about "good touch, bad touch". I do understand that children his age should know these things for future knowledge as well as their own safety. BUT I had no knowledge of this being taught. Which is outrageous to me. Secondly, my son already knew about it because *I* had taught him at a younger age. Now, this isn't so bad because yes they do need to know.

I do NOT believe this belongs in schools though.

I do NOT believe that it's their place. They may teach my kids english, writing, reading, math, science, history, art, music etc etc.

Children learn and develop at different ages. What's that saying? "What's right for one, isn't right for some"?

For example; My oldest daughter is 12. I had 'the talk' with her about 2 or 3 years ago. She was young but because of how her mind works and her maturity, it was time for her. Now, on the other hand my son is 7. He is no where near ready to be learning about sex past what would be right and wrong touches. When he is ready I, as his mother, should be able to make that decision. Not some random teachers that he spends some time with during the day. I promise they don't know my children anywhere near as well as I do.

I don't want to use the old, "you don't have kids so you wouldn't know" line. So, please don't take it that way completely. I just think that when you have kids, it changes your outlook on A LOT of issues.

I for one want to keep them 'innocent' as long as possible. Once it's gone, it's gone forever. These days it's earlier and earlier. They are not minature adults. They function on a whole different level. I wish someone had held onto my innocence for me a little while more. So, I will do my best to accomplish that for each of them. You don't have to be completely ignorant of sexual education to keep it. But there is a very fine line as they grow.

~Tragic~

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
reply to post by AccessDenied

 

I'll say it again:

The proposed plan that you put forth in your OP never said a thing about SEX until 5th grade. I really dont think it is wrong to learn anatomy at a young age. It would get rid of all of those nasty words we came up with for our organs out of ignorance or shame to say the correct word. Not to mention overall make us more comfortable with our bodies.

I also have more faith in humanity that we would not turn into a bunch of sex fiends just because we know what's going on. I understand kids should be treated with "kid gloves" but I feel what was proposed was very sensitive.

And yes, I do read through the posts before I reply. My point on asking what the actual lessons were was all this hullabaloo for what?

I understand we will probably never agree on this, hence my idea for the compromise that you allow the parents to decide via a permission slip, because lets be honest, not all parents teach their children.

and you are still missing the point I made numerous times...I won't repeat it again.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
You have your view, I have mine.

I do not see why these proposed changes to the curriculum are bad. We underestimate how much our children know about sex. There are probably very very few people that never walked in on mommy and daddy.

And honestly, I know this might shock some as I have found is mostly the case when I share this, but I hit puberty at 7 or 8. 8!!!! I had my first period in the summer between grade 2 and 3. Believe me, I would have LOVED to have know that the F was going on. Instead I had no clue and hid it from my parents for almost 5 months. I honestly thought I was dying. Or that there was something seriously wrong with me.

Puberty does not happen at the same age for all people.

Being sexually active without the facts is just plain crazy, yet not having the facts will not stop kids, yes kids, from having sex. They do not need to be told about it to know what it is. But they do need to be made aware of the dangers, responsibilities and choices that come with it.

The sooner, the better IMO.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by worlds_away]