Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling

reply to post by endisnighe

No offense, but my suggestion is to go to a school for the CDL. You may be the best driver on the road, but those regulations are thorough and detailed. There is no more outlaw trucking.

You can see them yourself at the FMCSA website, but there is nothing like having a pro give it to you. And the fines are high enough, one ticket can cost more than the driving course.

Especially on Hazmat...

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


The ability to produce on demand 45 ml of urine minimum at all times.

Other than that, pretty much it.

There are 3 sides to a story each side of the parties involved and the truth. Is there any evidence that this guy wasn't mouthing off to the cop and the cop took him down to the station to really screw with his day? Not saying that makes it right, but we don't know the whole story all we know is what the truck driver was telling us. For all we know this truck driver could have been given the cop a hard time about handing over his information to begin with and the cop had reason to suspect he was illegal because of the way the driver was acting.

Tough luck crap happens deal with it.

reply to post by TheRedneck


And I will second that suggestion as they can teach you the tips and tricks on how to pass the moving tests as well as give you plenty of practice. And as a side note, although the testing is legit and done onsite, the testing officers are a little more lenient testing at a driving school versus at a state scheduled testing location.

It is part of the relationship of the school with the testing officer. The school doesn't want to waste the officer's time with students that they feel are not ready for the test. The officer knows this and builds that trust that the driver will be able to drive and can account for nervousness.

However, they can and will fail you. And there is no refund of the testing fee that day. You have to wait one week before testing that part again and pay for that part of the test. And retake that part of the test. So failing the reverse serpentine means doing all the maneuverability tests again.

Testing is three parts (in Ohio--other states have different tests) Pre-trip which is doing all 109 point checks of a DOT pre-trip inspection. Then is the maneuverability tests. Backing into various docks, a turn, the reverse serpentine. Finally the road test. Fail any part and the test is over then and there.

A solid motto I live by is "It is only profiling if you guess wrong"

Carrying around documentation is a necessary sacrifice to improve the well being of our country. And if i fail to prove I'm a citizen (which i wont), I would be proud that my country took it seriously enough to arrest me.

Way to go Arizona!

RFID chip implants in everyone would have prevented this right?

Nah, they would have accused him of having a stolen implant and handcuffed him anyway.

Obama could fly down to Arizona, but it could get interesting if they made him produce his birth certificate.

hmmm.


Article 4 Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

Since the U.S. isn't protecting Arizona against an invasion [Immigrants killing AZ ranchers on their border farms] what is Arizona is supposed to do ?

10th Amendment

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Az could argue their case as state sovereignty. In fact they could withdraw from a broken compact with the other states.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Wait a minute.... something isn't quite right here...

Abdon was told he did not have enough paperwork on him when he pulled into a weigh station to have his commercial truck checked.

Source: www.azfamily.com...

Now, any USDOT certified officer, and that normally includes any state officer and certainly those involved in the check stations, has the right to pull over any commercial vehicle and inspect it on the spot. Period. I also know that there is a national database of trucks authorized for operation in the United States; I saw it at a Colorado weigh station once right outside of Denver. All they have to do is type in the DOT number and everything any cop ever wanted to know about that truck pops up on the screen: previous OOS orders, tickets issued, accidents, authorization, fuel tax history... everything! So why couldn't the truck be checked?

Every truck is required to carry the base tag registration, fuel tax license, proof of insurance, and authority certification. All of these list either the VIN number or the USDOT number, either of which would have allowed for the truck registration and authority to be checked, and even if he did not have those, the VIN number is stamped on it just like in a car. Did he not have a permit book? Was the VIN number legible? Were the officers USDOT certified? If not, why was anyone interested in a birth certificate?

Something is starting to smell a little fishy here....

TheRedneck

I suspect his logbook may have been incomplete.

I just say that because it has happened to me.



[edit on 4/23/2010 by Lemon.Fresh]

Look like this birth certificate thing is not going to be only Obama’s problem after all.

Humm, I wonder how he’ll tackle the incident the if this is only part of the bigger NOW plan?

Always funny to watch posters on here running in circle, beating about the bush, acting all surprised about something they should’ve foreseen from MILES away.

O.K. So what it if boils down to one state deciding to start its own little ethnic cleanse? It’s not like humans have never done that before. But hat’s what you’re gonna get really with a breaking of the union; each state will have its own “relatively” rogues laws depending on that state’s demography. The people will just prove that they are no better then the government when it comes to the law of the jungle.

Originally posted by TheRedneck Ambassador Bridge.

The guard took the paperwork and demanded "Identification". I pulled out my CDL (Commercial Drivers License) from my shirt pocket and handed it to him. He looked at it and got a puzzled look on his face. "What's this?"

I replied "It's my CDL... you wanted my ID."

He shook his head. "This isn't good enough. Passport, VISA, or birth certificate." I asked "What's wrong?"

He told me the weight wasn't included on one of the pages. So I took out my pen and filled in the number, in front of the guard, and handed it back.

That seemed to satisfy him.

Why he wanted me to do it I have no idea.

. By the time I rolled forward to pay (yes, PAY to get back into my own country!) the customs fee, I swear I had scars on my tongue from biting it... because what I wanted to say was:


His final words were, and I quote, "I'm going to give you a break this time, but don't ever try to drive through here without proper identification again!"

First of all the Ambassador Bridge is privately owned. So they can charge what ever they want. As for the paperwork- you lucked out- there are certain things that MUST be on it for crossing back into the US- going into Canada is a breeze getting back not so much. He could have detained you- just remember that. They changed all the crossing requirements because of 9-11-- so a Passport or Birth Cert or FAST Card is required.

In my last months over the road (just last month) I crossed the border several times a week at the Ambassador Bridge. Mainly carried HazMat and Autoparts.

Originally posted by Common Good
I read the article, and I really dont see why they are bitching.
The guy got pulled over, was asked for information on who he was(normal)and he didnt have it. They arrested him for not providing his identity.
And doesnt he know, that AZ is cracking down on illegal immigration like crazy right now?

Um... he had a commercial drivers license and provided his social security number. He provided his identity. And was arrested anyway. What are you talking about?
Papers please!!

This is simple.

If the person is a citizen ( naturalized ) and has an accent when speaking English, just because you say you are a citizen you are not going to be believed. Now, they can run his driver license and it would come back to his status. They will have to let him go.

If the person is not a citizen, it's up to the agent to let him go, fine him or take him into custody because the person is required to carry with him his Immigrant or non-immigrant documents at all time.

Maybe ( and I don't like this ) the agent was having a bad day and gave this guy a hard time. Or maybe, the driver was having an attitude with the agent and the agent made it difficult for him.

I have an accent in English. I am a citizen. I work for the Federal Government. When I get pulled over by the Border Patrol just because I say that I'm a citizen they don't have to believe me, of course there are various ways to prove that by asking me simple questions. You would be surprise how many illegal Immigrants that don't have an accent in English, because they've been here since they were little and never updated their status and they even went to school here, get arrested on a daily basis. You'd be even more surprise to find out that some of them are criminals.

Still here in California, it's not a crime to cross the border illegally. It's just a misdemeanor. If your are wanted by the local police or the federal police, then you will go to jail.

[edit on 4/4/2010 by thegrayone]

From watching the video, the guy has an accent and not responding the questions correctly or properly ( maybe because he was nervous) make the officers suspicious about his status.

Also, and trust me about this, all those documents can be fake almost to perfection.
That's why this guys go to the academy for months and have to take a test every moth after the academy for 1 year or so, to make sure they know what they are doing, as part of post academy training.

Originally posted by Common Good
I read the article, and I really dont see why they are bitching.

Because they asked for his birth certificate?

The guy got pulled over, was asked for information on who he was(normal)and he didnt have it.

I hope they ask you for a blood drawn DNA sample as proof of identification a long with a full set of finger and toe prints. And an anal cavity search next time you're asked for identification.

After all, it's just identification by your logic.

They arrested him for not providing his identity.

Now it feels like you're trolling. And obviously lying about reading the article. Because he showed several valid forms of identification. They just wanted more, then he would provide, then they would ask for more, and he provided it. then they asked for more than he had.

AND AH HAH HE MUST BE AN ILLEGAL! HE COULDN'T PROVIDE HIS LIFES RECORDS IN ID ON THE SPOT!

I see your troll logic now.

And doesnt he know, that AZ is cracking down on illegal immigration like crazy right now?

You mean cracking down on constitutional rights? I guess it's okay then.

Originally posted by Oaktree
Off topic a bit but.... I happen to know a bit about profiling first hand.
I'm a white male, I was 28-30 at the time.
I lived in Chicago, and worked late hours in a restaurant.

The fastest way home from work was through a high crime area, and the sellers were always on the corners.

In 2 years, I was pulled over 5 times, always for some trumped up reason, and always by undercover cops who should have had better stuff to do than traffic stops.

The conversation went something like this..

Officer: Do you know why I pulled you over this evening?
Me: No, did I do something wrong?
Officer: Yes, you didn't fully stop at that stop sign. (In Chicago? C'mon man!)
Officer, again: What are you doing in this neighborhood at this time of night?
Me: On my way home from work.

After a license check, and his flashlight all through my car, I was always let go, no ticket.

However, the simple fact that a white male was in a drug infested neighborhood late at night apparently screamed out that I must be lookin to score.

Profiling works both ways.

yeah, but minorities always get it worse. If you were black or mexican they would probably searched your car or worse sent you to jail for the hell of it. you see they always say minorities always cause trouble. But then you look at the Caucasians and they always seem to form groups that cause trouble like the KKK, Bohemian Grove, Democrats (pre-MLK jr), etc.

People think I am racist, but quite frankly I am tired of racist folk. They are making me racist.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by dragnet53]

reply to post by Ahabstar

It really depends on the state as to how they handle the actual tests. I got my CDL in Florida, from an independent school who had a state-authorized tester on staff (actually one of the school's owners). In Alabama, such a school is not allowed; state-authorized testers are only allowed in conjunction with state-recognized education facilities.

If you get your CDL out of state, be aware that you are required by law to change it back to the state you reside in when you return. I actually had to 'officially' change my address to Florida and then back to Alabama. Not really a problem, but it was some red tape.

Also, trucking companies will out a new driver through a period of on-the-job training, which, if you can get an older, experienced trainer (like I did), is priceless... I learned more from Butch in the first week than I have during the rest of the 8 years. Just like any industry, there are certain things that are considered 'wrong', if not illegal.

And whatever you do, don't call someone "good buddy" on the CB! The meaning of that term has changed since the 70s...


reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

A log book violation normally involves a ticket and an out-of-service order. If he had an incomplete or falsified log book, a birth certificate would be the least of his worries...

TheRedneck

reply to post by Common Good


Are you serious? He provided a commercial drivers license and a social security card!
Do you carry your birth certificate with you? Maybe in Arizona they issue laminated wallet sized birth certificates. Have you ever been pulled over and asked to provide more than a drivers license and prop of insurance? He was born in the United States! A United States Citizen having to prove that they are not an illegal immigrant. If that is not racial profiling, I don’t know what is.

I don't know of any Official Weigh Station at the 202 and Val Vista.

OK, before you have a fit, No, I didn't read every reply.
Now if this was a ADOT portable type and the driver was carrying Hazmat, Yup, in Arizona it is recommended you carry a copy of your B/C with your Health card. And for GODS Sake have your log book up to date and your bill of laden in order and if your really smart, A copy from a CAT Certified weigh station.

Yup, I drove OTR right after I retired for 5 yrs.

OK I've been arguing in another thread supporting the AZ immigraation deal, but that's BS if they have to show they're BC. They should just have to have a drivers license like the rest of us, and that should be good enough to handle the rest.

EDIT: I wasn't aware that the law actually went in effect yet...

[edit on 25-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

This is nonsense!! This is not racial profiling. I hate it when anything goes wrong for a person of ethnic origin, its because they were black, brown, yellow whatever. This is gettin old and boring now. If it happened to Mr Joe Blogg who was caucasian and straight, it would be a case of TOUGH S**T!! Howver because he can pull the 'R' Card its some how this has become a problem. If he cant prove who he is - detain him until he can, Simple!