Why did people in the bible live so long?

So. A lick of fire, or a point of light on the move...Angels of Light.

Pokey,a small black orb...Angels Of Darkness! Symbolic only I think.Pokey can appear as light as well,but prefers to stay hidden.

So we come full circle.

stgeorge, I am sorry to say that your past few posts were completely incoherent. I do hope that you are doing ok, and I suggest you take it easy for a while, maybe seek some professional help. I don't mean that as an insult, but, honestly, those last few were real gibberish, and obviously had nothing to do with anything, and it can't be a good sign of health that you postsed them. I am actually rather uncomfortable discussing the thread subject with you, since you seem to be completely convinced of it and don't appear to be quite stable.

great discussion guys. big up to those who brought good points and backed them up with sensible arguments. earlier today i spend more than an hour reading the whole thread and now i can say i'm aware of some new stuff that i find not only interesting but rather important.

yo, i want to especially thank the guy who posted the link to that Michael Hayes site. i have math background and believe in the existence of infinite math patterns in nature. it was a great read.

keep up

Try to find professional medical help these days nygdan! They haven't found anything wrong with me yet!
And I am a professional at solving these riddles! People who hide the Truth are the sick ones,or so 2IC tells me.
"Lack of moral fibre mainly we would say."

[edit on 17-8-2004 by stgeorge]

Hi,

In biology, it has become known that the key to slow aging is to slow the degradation rate of telomeres in cells. From infoaging.org:

How are telomeres related to aging?

The process of cell division is called mitosis. Each time mitosis occurs, the telomeres of the dividing cells get just a bit shorter. Once a cell's telomeres have reached a critically short length, that cell can no longer divide. Its structure and function begins to fail. Some cells even die. In the laboratory, most human cells can only divide 30 to 50 times before they stop reproducing, reaching a stage called senescence. Cells taken from older persons and persons with premature aging syndromes undergo even fewer divisions before reaching senescence. (4) Scientists know senescence is related to telomere length because adding telomerase, an enzyme that lengthens telomeres, to cells allows them to reproduce indefinitely.

I believe that God set the body chemistry after Noah and the flood to be 120 years by increasing the rate of telomere degradation in cells to calibrate to that time period. It was God's grace to do this. Ultimately, those who do not accept God gift of grace through Jesus Christ's sacrifice will be judged under the law for what they have done in this life. To lessen their punishment in eternity, God shortened people's lives as a way to make less the punishment for those who would reject Him. He is Holy and Just and yet still caring about those to hate Him and reject Him.

Originally posted by managerie
Hi,

In biology, it has become known that the key to slow aging is to slow the degradation rate of telomeres in cells.

Theres quite a bit more to aging, but telomeres are thought to be involved yes.

I believe that God set the body chemistry after Noah and the flood to be 120 years by increasing the rate of telomere degradation in cells to calibrate to that time period.

Uhm, why do you beleive this? Why would god perform such an unecessary miracle? Why wouldn't he just make people live longer, or have their cells divide even if the telomeres are too short?

Ultimately, those who do not accept God gift of grace through Jesus Christ's sacrifice will be judged under the law for what they have done in this life. To lessen their punishment in eternity, God shortened people's lives as a way to make less the punishment for those who would reject Him.

Thats completely ridiculous. You actually beleive that? I applaud you, thats great. To clarify something tho, if one doesn't accept jesus but has been good, then its all good for them? What do you mean by lessening their punishment in eternity? You are saying there's not-so-bad-really portions of hell?

He is Holy and Just and yet still caring about those to hate Him and reject Him.

You said people who don't accept jesus are judged, not those who hate him. So people who have never heard about him are being punished.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by managerie
Hi,

In biology, it has become known that the key to slow aging is to slow the degradation rate of telomeres in cells.

Theres quite a bit more to aging, but telomeres are thought to be involved yes.

I believe that God set the body chemistry after Noah and the flood to be 120 years by increasing the rate of telomere degradation in cells to calibrate to that time period.

Uhm, why do you beleive this? Why would god perform such an unecessary miracle? Why wouldn't he just make people live longer, or have their cells divide even if the telomeres are too short?

Answer: I think, but am not completely sure, that God chose this mechanism, at least, to cause people to live shorter lives (max 120 years).
Recall that I mentioned the flood of Noah. God is Holy and Just and He Himself said that the cumulative sin of mankind got to the point where He decided to destroy all mankind except Noah and his family. Likewise, as a remedy for this cumulative sin being so great, He shortened man's lifespan so He would not be able to sin so grievously for so many years.

Ultimately, those who do not accept God gift of grace through Jesus Christ's sacrifice will be judged under the law for what they have done in this life. To lessen their punishment in eternity, God shortened people's lives as a way to make less the punishment for those who would reject Him.

Thats completely ridiculous. You actually beleive that? I applaud you, thats great. To clarify something tho, if one doesn't accept jesus but has been good, then its all good for them? What do you mean by lessening their punishment in eternity? You are saying there's not-so-bad-really portions of hell?

Answer: I know some will think what I have said is ridiculous. That's OK.
To think though that anyone in this world can be "good enough" is to drastically understate how Holy God really is. NONE of us are fit to be in His sight, to be near Him in our sin state. The new covenant (deal/contract) that God made with mankind was that man would ask for the grace of God that is given through Jesus Christ' sacrifice. The Old testament clearly says that God says that there would be no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood.

When Jesus came as a sinless man, He was the one-for-all sacrifice that would be credited to our accounts (as in accountable to God) to cover all of our sin and rebellion against God in this life) if we asked for that gift of God.

He is Holy and Just and yet still caring about those to hate Him and reject Him.

You said people who don't accept jesus are judged, not those who hate him. So people who have never heard about him are being punished.

Answer: All people who do not accept Jesus sacrifice for their sins and accept the Holy Spirit as a marker on their spirits will still be left in their sin
before God at the Great White Throne Judgement that occurs after Jesus 100 year reign on earth that is still in the future. Also, there is an age of accountability, children and babies younger than a certain age (I don't know that age) do go to heaven upon their death since they were too young to have any understanding of good/evil, right/wrong. Unfortunately, that means for some mothers in this world that they will see the child they aborted in this life who ask them why they were killed.
God says that He holds each person accountable for their exposure to God and their ability to understand the message of Jesus. Jesus' plan for His return isn't sooner than it is (I don't know the date) because He is waiting for the church to reach all of the tribes and nations in the world. He makes it clear that when He returns to judge as the One who can look into each person's soul, there will be NO ONE with an excuse for rejecting God.

There are actually different areas of hell. I don't recall this specifically in the Bible, but modern prophets who I know receive word from the Lord that has been verified by surrounding people have described different areas they received in horrifying visions. The best secular book that describes some of this is Dante's Inferno (probably not specifically accurate, but conceptually close).

The Bible is clear that no one is "good" or "good enough" on their own to meet the standards of perfection required by God Himself (Romans 3:23).
We are saved from the judgement only by our faith in Jesus sacrifice to pay our debts for our own sin.

Humanism as a belief system wants to believe that men are good inside.
Since to many of them, there is no good and no evil. If we all sit down and talk, we can understand and agree and war is NEVER necessary. The UN provides such a forum to discuss and resolve such issues, doesn't it?

The United Nations represented the best that humanistic philosophies about the goodness of people's hearts had to offer. The UN was supposed to present a forum for all countries to understand each other. If all men are good and there is no absolute evil, then simply talking it all out would be fine.

Except, we now find out that the UN's major players on the Security
Council were taking kickbacks in the BILLIONS!!! From Hussein and would
never have voted for war no matter what. The best that humanists had
to offer in discussion has been found to be hopelessly corrupt. Wishing people to be good at the core does not make that so.

There never has been a world organization that offers a utopian forum
to resolve such issues and there never will be.

I think that most people, including myself, daily underestimate what it means to be in the presence of the omnipotent God the Father. God told Moses that no man can look on Him and live.

Some will think all of this is ridiculous, of course. But, I am committed to writing what I have come to know and have experienced.

Answer to the original question: They didnt.

Generally its considered bad form to quote that much material and then respond in one large block like that.

Originally posted by managerie
Answer: All people who do not accept Jesus sacrifice for their sins and accept the Holy Spirit as a marker on their spirits

And how is that done, specifically?

will still be left in their sin

So, generally then, people living in parts of the world that haven't heard about jesus and all that are going to hell no? And people who only heard lies about jesus are going to hell to right?

Also, there is an age of accountability, children and babies younger than a certain age (I don't know that age) do go to heaven upon their death since they were too young to have any understanding of good/evil, right/wrong.

So kids still go to hell if they never learned about jesus tho right?

Unfortunately, that means for some mothers in this world that they will see the child they aborted in this life who ask them why they were killed.

why did god put souls into these kids just to let them get killed? If it was the mothers choice and not gods, why did he do this to miscarriages? Does god have to answer them when they ask 'Why did you make me but then rip me out of the placental conection and flush me away into human waste oh lord'? Or is that not cosidered proper? What does it matter if these children are aborted? WOuldn't it be much worse if they were allowed to live, sinned, didn't accept jesus, and spent eternity in hell?

He makes it clear that when He returns to judge as the One who can look into each person's soul, there will be NO ONE with an excuse for rejecting God.

Oh, so a person can make the decision right then and there?

There are actually different areas of hell. I don't recall this specifically in the Bible,

You probably won't find anything about hell in the bible. THe jews and I assume parts of the OT talk about 'sheol' or something like that, but its not really hell, though I'd suspect some translations mistakenly use 'hell'. Revelations doesn't talk about hell either, but rather an undifferentiated 'lake of fire', not actually like hell, outside of the mention of fire. I think Blake and Dante popularized the 'differentiated hell ' and whatnot, but are you saying the 'Inferno" and "Paradise Lost" are part of the bible?

but modern prophets who I know receive word from the Lord that has been verified by surrounding people have described different areas they received in horrifying visions.

Which visions were real and which were hallucinations? Which prophets are real nd which are frauds? This should be especially difficult to determine, since you are saying some of the true ones are talking about stuff thats not in the Bible.

The best secular book that describes some of this is Dante's Inferno

Ah, apparently you are using dante's inferno. What do you think of having people walking to hell and heaven and purgatory?

(probably not specifically accurate, but conceptually close).

According to who? You or the bible?

We are saved from the judgement only by our faith in Jesus sacrifice to pay our debts for our own sin.

So dante was wrong, and instead of being devoured by the devil, Judas is in heaven?

Humanism as a belief system wants to believe that men are good inside.
Since to many of them, there is no good and no evil. If we all sit down and talk, we can understand and agree and war is NEVER necessary. The UN provides such a forum to discuss and resolve such issues, doesn't it?

The efficacy of a particular beaurecracy is entirely irrelevant to the subject. What makes you qualified to talk about humanism? Are you a humanist?

. If all men are good and there is no absolute evil, then simply talking it all out would be fine.

And it isn't fine therefore humaism = wrong? But, if that logic applies, then the bible's no good either, because lots of people beleive in the bible but are at odds with each other. Heck the used to go to war with each other. They'll probably do so again.

Humans were designed to live forever. If a cell perfectly replicated itself and had no errors a human should be able to live forever, but the cells decay and copy with errors and then we die slowly.

Then there's the story of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were created to be in care over the planet along with their offspring. Death was the only punishment if they disobeyed the only restriction. If they would have never eaten the forbidden fruit they would have lived forever. Now imagine living in a world today, like it is, 900 years. It would be hell. Bad leaders would live long and dominate the world and so forth. Adam and Eve allowed themselves to see what its like to have their cells not obey their masters. The pre-flood generation lived longer because of the atmopheric differences of today. The water canopy and other unknown things probably added to their years. The planet was perfect for flesh before the flood. But since people were so wicked God had to break the planet so people wouldn't live so long.

Originally posted by lostinspace
Humans were designed to live forever. If a cell perfectly replicated itself and had no errors a human should be able to live forever, but the cells decay and copy with errors and then we die slowly.

Anything that never decayed would obviously never decay.

Then there's the story of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were created to be in care over the planet along with their offspring. Death was the only punishment if they disobeyed the only restriction. If they would have never eaten the forbidden fruit they would have lived forever. Now imagine living in a world today, like it is, 900 years. It would be hell. Bad leaders would live long and dominate the world and so forth. Adam and Eve allowed themselves to see what its like to have their cells not obey their masters.

The pre-flood generation lived longer because of the atmopheric differences of today. The water canopy and other unknown things probably added to their years.

There was no water canopy. Whats supposed to hold it up? Hows anything supposed to get thru it, like light? What affects on pressure do you think that much water would have? How much energy do you think would be released when enough water to cover every mountain falls out of the sky, continuously, for forty days?

The planet was perfect for flesh before the flood.

The bible doesn't say anythng like that, it says before the fall things were good. Not between the fall and the flood.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by lostinspace
The pre-flood generation lived longer because of the atmopheric differences of today. The water canopy and other unknown things probably added to their years.

There was no water canopy. Whats supposed to hold it up? Hows anything supposed to get thru it, like light? What affects on pressure do you think that much water would have? How much energy do you think would be released when enough water to cover every mountain falls out of the sky, continuously, for forty days

What keeps the gases up on the gas giant planets Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune?

When a puddle evaporates in the hot sun, the water vapor is practically invisible when it leaves the source. Stack invisible on top of invisible and you'll get some sun filtering and no rainbow effect.

The earth's crust is thinner at the bottom of the oceans and so the weight of the extra water pushed down on the mantel. The pressure on the mantel forced magma in opposite directions and the mountain ranges of the continents were born.

The energy from that amount of downpour was released into massive electrical storms which would have produced tornados, hurricanes, water spouts, and much more on a global scale.

That amount of water did not have to reach to the tops of the mountains of today because the continents were pushed out of the water. The Sea level was at a lower level before the flood.


The planet's environment was better than the present because the long life spans are dominate in the pre-flood world. That's how it was originally designed for flesh.


[edit on 15-10-2004 by lostinspace]

[edit on 15-10-2004 by lostinspace]

[edit on 15-10-2004 by lostinspace]

After the flood, the mantle was gone (the mantle was part of the water God used in the flood, the rest came from underground resevoirs) and its protection lost. Man began to live shorter and shorter lifespans.



Well, there were aliens at the time, and our DNA comes from the aliens,

Then, the classic calendar was not effective at this time, so a year was not really 365 days

I could give you many links about it....I would have to search and I'm too tired tonite!

Ameliaxxxxxxxxx

Originally posted by lostinspace
Humans were designed to live forever. If a cell perfectly replicated itself and had no errors a human should be able to live forever, but the cells decay and copy with errors and then we die slowly.

Well, sure, if a cell replicated itself perfectly, there wouldnt be a problem with aging(except for natural radiation, which would cause cell mutations). However, because of disease and accidents, the maximum possible lifespan for a human is around 200.
No matter how perfectly your cells replicate, within about 200 years, a rock is going to fall on your head, you will choke on a piece of food, or you will be killed in a war. Nobody would live to be 900.

These wacky fundamentalists never cease to amaze me. They will believe the most odd, unmerited theories in an attempt to legitimize the events in the bible as literal historic fact. They invest all this effort into pseudo-science, yet completely ignore the most obvious and legitimate conclusion... the bible is not factually accurate!

Originally posted by lostinspace
What keeps the gases up on the gas giant planets Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune?

Nothing holds them up, gravity holds them down. The water canopy that you refer to is often presented as a solid layer of ice suspended far above the earth. Are you suggesting that enough water to flood the entire planet was kept vaporized in the air? What do you think the air pressure at the surface would be like then?

When a puddle evaporates in the hot sun, the water vapor is practically invisible when it leaves the source. Stack invisible on top of invisible and you'll get some sun filtering and no rainbow effect.
No you wouldn't. Clouds aren't invisible. With all that vapor they're be effectively one giant cloud covering the planet. Ocean water is invisible, but when its deep it blocks out all light.

The earth's crust is thinner at the bottom of the oceans and so the weight of the extra water pushed down on the mantel.

Its thinner in the oceans because its new at the oceans. One can watch it being created at Oceanic Rifts. If the weight of the water pushed it down, then there would be isostatic rebound of it. There isn't.

The pressure on the mantel forced magma in opposite directions and the mountain ranges of the continents were born.

Then why are the mountain ranges completely diffferent ages? The appalachians are well worn, but the rockies are all pointy. And what about the evidence that indicates the mountains were formed thru different processes? Also, the himalayas aren't in the right position for what you are saying, nor are lots of other mountain ranges. And the water was there for a very short time. You are suggesting that the magma was moving that quickly? And tht it was forcing mountains to be built that fast? Also, mountains aren't made from magma, they're composed of highly folded and bent surface rocks.

The energy from that amount of downpour was released into massive electrical storms which would have produced tornados, hurricanes, water spouts, and much more on a global scale.

By what process is all the energy that should've been released as heat magically transffered to electricity?

That amount of water did not have to reach to the tops of the mountains of today because the continents were pushed out of the water.

And where is the evidence for this happeneing? Or are you only saying it because its convienient for your flood idea?

The Sea level was at a lower level before the flood.

If it was lower, then even more water would be needed

The planet's environment was better than the present because the long life spans are dominate in the pre-flood world.

So because things lived longer the environment was just 'better'? If everything lived longer are you also saying that it reproduced much much less offspring? Seems like if lifespans were increased so much then there'd be far too many organisms at once, what with not enough dying off. Seems like if anything increaserd life spans makes the environment much worse.

ameliaWell, there were aliens at the time, and our DNA comes from the aliens

Then why does it match the dna of other organisms that humans are related to? Why is it that anatomical information gives one tree of human evolution and evolution in general, and genetic information gives an independant but supportive tree?

Then, the classic calendar was not effective at this time, so a year was not really 365 days

They moved the planet closer or further from the sun? Wouldn't that affect the rotation of the planet, and the speed at which it moves and all sorts of other stuff? Wouldn't that make things pretty difficult on teh surface of the planet while in transit?

Man began to live shorter and shorter lifespans

What was the mantle stopping that now comes thru that results in a generally shorter life span? Sunlight? Would living in the dark mean you have a longer lifespan, on the order of 900 years?

You say this earth has bad the same atmosphere for milllions of years but yet the common denominator of the solar system is thick gas filled planets Venus,Jupiter,Saturn,Uranus, and Neptune. Why hasn't the earth kept the same state as these other planets? Why haven't these mentioned planets spawned life just as earth?

Maybe one of ya'll put out this suggestion already...?

Some smart researchers already identified that the Biblical Patriarchs
ages correspond to time periods found in nature, for the most part.

like Metheusalah lived 969 years = (i dont remember... the days of Mars' year??)

i used to go to www.calendersign.ric.at...

for reading up ArcheoAstronomy, etc
spend a few minutes to orient yourself there, get the english pages, etc

if your looking for a 15 second, info blurb...this ain't for you...

peace

I think that because adam and eve ate the fruit from the tree it changed their DNA and thought patterns. They made a trade. They gained knowledge but began to lose their life spans. The Ender series by Orson Scott Card has a good explanation of how this would work and it can probably explain it better than I could. Keep in mind that just because something is labled science fiction it does not mean that it lacks truth.

Originally posted by lostinspace
You say this earth has bad the same atmosphere for milllions of years but yet the common denominator of the solar system is thick gas filled planets Venus,Jupiter,Saturn,Uranus, and Neptune.

Actually there are other rocky planets, all in the same section of the system as earth.

How was any of that anything like an answer to the specific questions I had?

daniel
I think that because adam and eve ate the fruit from the tree it changed their DNA and thought patterns.

Why would eating some fruit result in DNA being changed? Why would dna change mean different 'thought patters"? Since the whole of genesis is a allegorical story anyway why beleive any of it?

Perhaps those lifespans in the old testament were based on LUNAR months. Break it down, and the lifespans were that of normal humans living thousands of years ago. Ways of calculating years/months may not have been the same as what we have today. I'm looking for the article and source breaking down how the lunar month works out and willpost when I find it.

[edit on 17-10-2004 by RedBalloon]