The guy who filmed the shots fired at the POLISH PLANE CRASH WAS ASSASSINATED

The The deputy head of Poland's Protestant church was killed in a car accident while returning home from the state funeral of president Lech Kaczynski.

www.thisislondon.co.uk...

Look guys... just another coincidence...
im sick of it

[edit on 23-4-2010 by joao_ed]

This is what every site states (nothing more nothing less):

WARSAW, Poland - The deputy head of Poland's Protestant Church was killed in a car accident while returning home from state funeral ceremonies for President Lech Kaczynski, the church said Monday.

In a statement on its Web site, the church said Bishop Mieczyslaw Cieslar, 60, died Sunday night near the city of Lodz, to which he was returning from weekend memorial ceremonies in Warsaw. Kaczynski died in a plane crash April 10 in western Russia.

Police confirmed the crash but no more details were immediately available.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
Nothing is true everything is permitted. If russia assassinated the guy and crashed the plane why do it in this obvious maner.

Russia likes to do things to send a message to others, in this case, "dont leak videos to youtube."

What you guys think of this video, where you can clearly see 3 man walking behind the plane, and a guy near the airplane that seems to raise his hand.

www.polishforums.com...

This is simple, the russians did it!!
The only reason why they did this, is to show a few people, what would happen, if they don't listen. ill explain.
Poland, Kazastan and a few other countrys around russia, used to belong to russia, when it was in power, and things were good for the russians, and that's when they kept USA in order, so they didn't just go into any country and bomb the life out of it, just becuase they "THOUGHT" those people are "bad". That is exactly what Putin is trying to do, his trying to bring power back to russia, to restore it from it's current state, since all the presidents after Lenin Effed that country up side ways, his just putting back the pieces, and like i said, it's a good thing, in terms of keeping other countrys in order, so they don't abuse their power like USA.
That's what happend, Polish guy said, "NAH, NEVER" Putin was like, okay, take care!! and he sent a message, to all the other presidents, like of Kazastan, Ukraine ect ect, if u say no, you will be in a plane!!
Simple, he took out all the important people, so he could replace them with his own. I agree with him for trying to put russia back together, but i certainly do not agree in the way his going about it. So i don't think this video is legit, if they are serious enough to take down a plane with a PRESIDENT in it, then this report, even the video, would have never reached ATS.

The Conspiracy on this thread is that which diminishes the fact of the second greatest Nuculear Power in the world may have pretended to disbandthe Eastern Bloc , but thats all that it is pretence.
They neutralised the Polish nationalists, because they have the same ambitions they always have.
Facist communism armed to the teeth with Nuclear ,neutron,ect weapons do not take a step backwards unless there is something to gain down the road.
Lets forget these details of this video,the real question is whats next for Europe and the world.

Okay, does anyone, know the real meaning of Communism, except of what u saw in movies, and heard in schools? anyone? Like everytime, someone is talking about Russia, its always blah blah blah facism and communism, in the same sentence. Communism cannot, and never will be inforced onto people, it is impossible to make communism a law, TRUE Communism, is when people go through a spiritual awekening, that is it's true meaning, what the russians did back in the day, was just PURE MURDER, and what u been taught about communism, is to make u affraid of it, so that people will never wake up to that fact that it's actually a good thing, it has no other name.. and hello, USA has all those weapons ALSO, they are the only country in the world, that marches straight into OTHERS territory, for absolutley no right reasons, not that there ever is one, and bombs everything in it's path, and then robs it's own people of their money, to pay for wasted minirels which they use to make weapons of mass destruction. THAT IS FASCISM, ur leaving around it, and in it. This plane going down is not the worst of it, ur own people bombed their own building on their own soil, to full millions with anger, towards people that had nothing to do with anything, and their only fault was that they didn't need USA to become industrialised country, and a FACT, russia is a neutral country!!! China has nukes for crying out loud, and 2 billion people that can take over Amrica in a single day, do they, NO...

reply to post by XaniMatriX


Wow, thank you for that poignant response, Karl...or are you Friedrich? Either way, that was magnificent!...Completely off-topic, but magnificent nonetheless. You do, however, seem to have your facts askew.

While you are correct in the assertation of what we view as "Communism" is not the theorized SOCIAL MOVEMENT first penned by yourself and your associate (whichever one you might be), there is nothing spiritual about it. Communism is an answer for the unending class conflict between the Bourgeois (elites) and Proletariat (workers).

In theory, Communism would create a Utopian society. Everything would be shared equally and decisions would be made democratically. NO one person or group would be subject to another, thus nullifying what sociologists call "conflict theory." The problem with the ideal model of Marxist Communism is simple...It is impossible to institute on a national level. There are simply too little resources and man, naturally, desires to dominate. Thus, everything couldn't be shared equally and people will always try to subjugate others.

You are obviously not from America and, while I appreciate your world view, as an American (as flawed a nation as we might be), it's hard for me not to laugh at the Euro-venom you just exuded. I'm guessing UK or, possibly Canada (not Europe, but may as well be)? Regardless, I feel it's necessary to remind you that without America...everyone in Europe, North Africa, and possibly Russia, would be blond hair/blue eyed swastika waving, German speaking, bratwurst eating Nazi's and everyone elsewhere would wake up and pledge their allegience to the Rising Sun of Japan. I'm just speculating the consequences of American WW2 neutrality. We all know Europe didn't stand a chance against Nazi Germany and East Asia, Australia, and the Pacific Islands couldn't take on Japan alone.

Back on topic...
How crazy would it be if this plane crash was the catalyst in the reformation of the U.S.S.R.? I mean, we just agreed to dimantle a 3rd of our nuclear arsenal AND not use any new technology to construct or research new ways to build better bombs. Like lambs to the slaughter perhaps?

A few years ago I heared a discussion about the Romanovs possibly getting back into power. I figured they were just deluding themselves given that family had been shattered and scattered .. now I'm not so sure.

..just throwing it out there.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by lee anoma

Originally posted by McGinty
I'm assuming it has been since so many people are adamant that it's fake. They wouldn't be if proof hadn't been posted, right?!

Is there any proof that this is real?

Aside from a blog that mentions "the guy" I don't see much more than that.

Any legit news sources have this up?

- Lee

Excuse me, but this is not an answer, it's another question.

Please re-read my original question - i'd be grateful for an answer:

Originally posted by McGinty
Forgive me for not reading every post, but can someone please re-post the source that proves the blog is fake, please.

Or has this not been posted yet?

I'm assuming it has been since so many people are adamant that it's fake. They wouldn't be if proof hadn't been posted, right?!

My question is not about those who state the OP is right, but about those who state the is wrong.

Unless the latter have proof/ a credible source to back up their statements, then although they may be under the impression that they are helping to resolve this thread, they are in fact confusing it further.

Proof is just as necessary to the antithesis as it is to the thesis.



[EDIT to add original question]


[edit on 24-4-2010 by McGinty]

Originally posted by WhiteDevil013
reply to post by ahddm

 

Its funny how many people immediately thought of Russia when these events were unfolding....

Why? I mean other than my gut instinct, something told me there was more to this than meets the eye. I actually had the same feeling when I was eating my breakfast, watching the twin towers collapse on that fateful morning 9 years ago.

But hey, it IS Russia. Of course we're going to blame them. They just seem like a bunch of thugs/mafia figures posing as politicians...."Wait, thats basically every country" you say.... "well, Russia makes it obvious! At least our government attempts to hide the truth" I say

Well I thought Russia not because I have a dislike towards them, matter of fact I admire how they handle problems, and wish we were more like them, but that's another thread in its self.

My parents were from the USSR as I was briefly and it is common disgust much the USSR shared against, Poland, never knew why but just the hate between the people. The new video release by discl0sur3 seems to explain some aspects other than the Russian side, which I believe are also possible.

To those saying sources are not good and have no solid foundation, I agree, even though many of the stuff here and on ATS is linked from blogs with no sources I would rather have the thoughts collected here and be discussed rather than them disappearing on the web.

Who knows one of those random stories my be the Needle in the haystack we are all looking for here.

[edit on 24-4-2010 by ahddm]

Did this guy really die? Or is it just bull?

Whats the use in killing him.. The footage is already out.

Brave.

reply to post by EGO84


Bull.

Until proven otherwise.

But that might be problematic, as is understood by the poster above this.

reply to post by SeditiousDissent


Hey Pal

I have to almost entirely agree with your first 3 paragraphs. Pure Marxist/Engles Communism, and I think Lenism(Trotskyism) as well, if it had been implemented as it was ought to have been, rather than manipulated as it was, would have been IDEAL 'governance' for our societies as a whole. However the ideal is most likely, never gonna be what you get.

However, when you proceeded to comment:

You are obviously not from America and, while I appreciate your world view, as an American (as flawed a nation as we might be), it's hard for me not to laugh at the Euro-venom you just exuded. I'm guessing UK or, possibly Canada (not Europe, but may as well be)?

I felt I must stop you, because A) I have lived in both countries, and share citizenship in both, yet I fail to see just how what XaniMatriX was saying was "Euro-venom", that seems a little prejudicial wouldn't you say? Oh, and Canada is not Europe. I disagree with some of the ways our system bows before monarchy etc, however that does NOT make us Europe.

I encourage you to watch a production called "Fatherland" it was originally aired in 1994 on TV, and is basically a hypothetical time line, in which Hitler did in fact win the war. Although, how things play out a little more likely than total subjugation.

www.imdb.com...

speculate all you want...nothing is going to come of this...this is the way it is...it will be buried and stay buried. why would any news agency want to fool with this story?? they would end up like this guy...case closed.

reply to post by latEsleepeR


I agree that my "Euro-venom" poke was a bit of a knee jerk reaction on my part. It was merely a generalization of some Western European attitudes toward America. My Canada jab was uncalled for, and I cheerfully withdraw it. I know they are not European haha. Our neighbors to the north are wonderful people and share, in most cases, hold the same views as we. However, it is my own ethnocentricity that dictates my attitudes toward the rest of the world (ironic, I know).

I think that no matter where you're from, it's hard not to just sit there and allow someone to insult your country. I guess it's the typical "cowboy" mentality that many Americans share that gives us a bad name globally. While I do agree that our government is out of control and needs to be reformed en masse, I don't agree that we are some sort of global neo-imperialist monsters. Regardless, it was wrong of me to stereotype.

I haven't seen that movie, but you've definitely piqued my interest and I'll try to check it out. There's a film called "CSA" that has a similar premise. It is a satirical look at how America might be had the Confederate States won the Civil War.

C.S.A.

Originally posted by SeditiousDissent
reply to post by XaniMatriX

 

How crazy would it be if this plane crash was the catalyst in the reformation of the U.S.S.R.? I mean, we just agreed to dimantle a 3rd of our nuclear arsenal AND not use any new technology to construct or research new ways to build better bombs. Like lambs to the slaughter perhaps?

You do know that was all a complete and utter PR stunt right (and a ridiculously poor and transparent one at that)!

With the huge numbers of nukes the US and UK has, even getting rid of 90% would make next to no difference on a global scale. The US or UK... or any other country for that matter would only need to launch one for someone else to retaliate and then it'd be pretty much game over.

In the recent political debates over here in the UK, Brown basically admitted that are nukes are all extremely old and now pretty much useless... so in other words the '30% decommissioning' isn;t some 'lets make the world a safer place' stunt like he made out, but rather just that they need to decommission the old warheads for safety reasons. And he now wants to spend something ridiculous like 10 billion on building a NEW Trident program. Hmmm, lets make the world safer by getting rid of our nukes... and then go and make some shiny new bigger and more powerful ones. Makes perfect sense, I'm sure Iran won't notice

So i don't exactly see an iminent threat from Russia due to our 'lack' of nukes.

you only need one to kick up a worldwide sh*tstorm, so I'm sure we'll all be 'safe' for now

Back to the video though, the annotated video is excellent! I didn't even spot the people in the background on the original video. It does look HIGHLY sus, can anyone confirm the translations are correct? I'll ask my Polish friend to see if he can make what they say too and post up what he says.

Originally posted by Gregarious
If/when this is done in America, the CIA would have set up someone with a gripe to take the fall, and then assassinated the patsy after the CIA actually pulled off the assassination. And they would have said that this photographer committed suicide by pulling out his own life support plugs. Sounds reasonable to them! Like Vince Foster used a 45 in the back of the head (can't physically be done, too large caliber with too much force to fire straight in head), and noone found it until later, then found in his hand, on his chest. So never seriously investigated. Same with JFK plot, The Big Event. Same with Tim Mc Veigh. Perps, in forensics, are identifiable by their modus operendi, the way they do things. CIA always has the same MO. Look at our missing nuke, and all the dead military personnel involved with stealing it. Look at the WTC. CIA M.O. These perps in Russia are just amateurs next to our own home grown scoundrels/murderers. And remember, whatever you hear on the news or on the web, or even see for yourself, you do not know HALF of the facts. The truth is much stranger, and much scarier than you can imagine. As in all things.

Gregarious,


You are quite right, we have been trained to see through falsified events thanks to the good old USA agencies and their lame scenarios which nonetheless get covered up thanks to the overwhelming majority of mainstream media being complicit. Others have posted that it was thanks to the poor pay of post-war journalists that most of them were enlisted on the Nazi CIA payroll. Times haven't changed, only they've added blackmail and threats to their list of incentives.


So we see these Russian pranksters to be quite similar to our own breed of banksters. They all kill people, most of them innocent, for a multitude of agendas hidden behind false motives that are equally condemnable.


What this video has taken the focus off of, is that there is NO WAY that this wreckage had so many passengers on board. Where did they vanish to ? Is that why some locals who maybe came to assist in the rescue were silence by execution ? Had the stumbled onto the fact that this crash site was that of an empty plane, used as a cover for the downing of the real plane elsewhere ?


If all the bodies were charred to the point of being hard to identify, wouldn't the branches and twigs embedded in the wreckage also be burned? That proves that it is impossible that the real presidential plane the visiting party took off in was this one.


How else can this and other footage filmed directly upon discovering the crash site be explained? There should be close to a hundred bodies and possibly even more 'parts' than that. None there. Where did they go - 2 meters into the ground as claimed?

Originally posted by OnlyTheBrave
Whats the use in killing him.. The footage is already out.

Brave.

if his death is true, then the assassination suggests that we haven't seen, or heard everything that he witnessed.