And still more proof that the No-planes Theory is Wrong ...

I have seen it said here that the photos of aircraft engines in the vicinity of the WTC were fake because the engines did not match the planes.

It has been said that United Airlines planes are equipped with Pratt & Whitney engines and that United planes are not equipped with General Electric engines .

The 'no-planers' use this argument to say that the photos are bunk because the engine shown is a G.E.

It's also been said that engine was from 'this-or-that' type of plane .

Seems to me that a lot of people around here need to do their homework , before making these unfounded claims .

United Airlines Flight 175 was a 767-200 series. Well , guess what ? A 767-200 can be equipped with any of the following ;
P&W JT9D-7R4
P&W PW4000-94
G.E. CF6-80A
G.E. CF6-80C2

American Airlines Flight 11 was a 767-200ER :
P&W PW4000-94
G.E. CF6-80C2

Just thought you guys should know this , so you don't continue to use that for an argument .


en.wikipedia.org...

I regret to say that, although commendable, this post won't matter in the least. These conspiracy stories are based entirely upon abject paranoia, circular logic, and rubbush they're making up off the tops of their heads, so if you provide information that contradicts their conspiracies they're simply goign to use the mechanism of abject paranoia, circular logic, and rubbish they're making up off the tops of their heads to find a reason why they don't need to accept your information.

Thus, if they're of a mind that 100,000 secret agents are working all over the world to stage a false terrorist attack, plant manufactured evidence, pretend to be eyewitnesses giving false testimony, staging false investigations and reports, etc etc etc in some gov't plot to murder us all then they're certainly goign to insist these secret agents invented the information you're providing, too. Of course, they'll have ZERO evidence to back the claim up with, but such things are immaterial to them.

Once these people have become enslaved in this runaway train of never ending conspiracies inside secret plots within coverups, it's very hard go get back out. If the conspiracy theorists were simply to hold their own conspiracy stories up to the same exceedingly stringent level of critical analysis that they do the commission report, they wouldn't be conspiracy theorists, for very long.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Thus, if they're of a mind that 100,000 secret agents are working all over the world to stage a false terrorist attack, plant manufactured evidence, pretend to be eyewitnesses giving false testimony, staging false investigations and reports, etc etc etc in some gov't plot to murder us all then they're certainly goign to insist these secret agents invented the information you're providing, too. Of course, they'll have ZERO evidence to back the claim up with, but such things are immaterial to them.

Erm isn't that that the general consensus of the 9/11 forum here, that the government was involved?

I see hundreds of posts here arguing that because some puffs of smoke appear on the outside of the building it means the towers were being demolished. Yet such flimsy evidence doesn't receive as much scorn as the NPT.

It's generally believed the no plane hit the pentagon, yet there were eyewitnesses who say the opposite. Why is that scenario any different than the NPT at the towers?

Is it because of the home footage? All the videos were handed in to the media/government agencies, why couldn't they have been manipulated? It wasn't as if there were hundreds of them, there are only what, 44+ vids? Surely not that big a job.

I'm not saying the NPT is true, it's just since ATS is a conspiracy website, it's only fair that anyone and everyone can discuss any conspiracy whether it's an absurd one or not. As I said in another thread, the NPT is as welcome here as a ginger stepson, but I'm not sure why....

Originally posted by thesneakiod
Is it because of the home footage? All the videos were handed in to the media/government agencies

That's a big load of bull. No, everybody did not hand in their footage. Can you prove every single person handed in their videos? Nope. And second of all, many people made copies to hand in, if they did hand copies in, because many people released their own videos onto the net themselves.

A simple Youtube search will dispel your claim.

reply to post by _BoneZ_


I didn't say thats what happened, I asked did it.

And do you ever not post a bitter reply? jeez.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
I didn't say thats what happened, I asked did it.

No you did not. You said "all videos were turned into the media/government agencies" and I'm telling you that not only can you not prove who turned in their videos and who didn't, people that may have turned their videos in made copies to turn in because many people released their own videos onto the internet themselves.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
And do you ever not post a bitter reply?

Go look at my post history and that will answer your question. The only bitterness I have is towards no-plane disinfo artists, i.e., those who create the no-plane disinfo and try to peddle it as "fact" and "proof".











[edit on 22-4-2010 by _BoneZ_]

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Originally posted by thesneakiod
Erm isn't that that the general consensus of the 9/11 forum here, that the government was involved?

They may be the majority, but they're not the only ones. Others are saying that Israel staged 9/11 to get us to go to war against Islamic nations, while others say it's the work of a world wide secret cult of Satan worshipping numerologists. I've even seen at least one person claim it was staged by shape shifting aliens as a science experiment to see how we'd behave. I don't know but I've been told the Scientologists say that psychiatrists hypnotized the hijackers into staging the attack.

These off the wall accusations become much more clear, once you see the pattern behind them- they're the manifestation of the particular angsts of the peopel spreading them. People who hate Israel accuse Israel of being behind the attack, Sciientologists who condemn phychiatricts accuse them of being behind the attack, and so on. The reason why peopel are accusing the gov't of staging 9/11 likewise becomes clear, once you see they held antiestablishment, "the gov't is plotting to murder us all" feeling long before the 9/11 attack.

It's generally believed the no plane hit the pentagon, yet there were eyewitnesses who say the opposite. Why is that scenario any different than the NPT at the towers?

It is not in any way generally believed that no plane hit the Pentagon. The only peopel who believe that are those who want to believe that no plane hit the Pentagon. We know this becuase these people who hold up the "witnesses heard explosions at the WTC" always spontaneously develop amnesia and turn around and say the "eyewitnesses who saw the plane hit the Pentagon" are disinformation agents. They're literally making up their story as they go along.

I'm not saying the NPT is true, it's just since ATS is a conspiracy website, it's only fair that anyone and everyone can discuss any conspiracy whether it's an absurd one or not. As I said in another thread, the NPT is as welcome here as a ginger stepson, but I'm not sure why....

Mostly becuase in the back of their heads, the "controlled demolitions" peopel think you are secret agents spreading disinformation yourselves, in order to make them look bad by association. Whenever conspiracy people see soemthign they don't want to hear, they always drag out the "it's the work of secret agents" excuse. Why should their treatment of you be any different?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
The reason why peopel are accusing the gov't of staging 9/11 likewise becomes clear, once you see they held antiestablishment, "the gov't is plotting to murder us all" feeling long before the 9/11 attack.

Is that the reason? It would appear that you continue to make unfounded and unresearched accusations against 9/11 truthers. See, before 9/11, I didn't care or pay attention to politics, didn't care or pay attention to the national or world news. I was just trying to live my life and never gave politics or the government a second thought.

The evidence is what suggests that 9/11 was an inside job. Not because some conspiracy websites told us so. Not because a few anti-establishment people told us so.












[edit on 23-4-2010 by _BoneZ_]

No planes hit the World Trade Center? Ok, alrighty.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7892ff3ce933.jpg[/atsimg]

Let me guess, the wheel embedded in this WTC grid iron is a hologram, right? Pathetic!

Cheers-
Phil

Originally posted by Phil Jayhan
Let me guess, the wheel embedded in this WTC grid iron is a hologram, right? Pathetic!

Let me get this straight, you believe that wheel that's barely embedded in the grid stayed embedded in the grid after the very very hard 90-story fall on to the asphalt?

I'll believe the Pod theory before I believe that wheel was not planted.

reply to post by Phil Jayhan


Excellent shot of that picture , I have been trying to find one of that quality to use in a thread I am working on .

Thanks .

reply to post by ATH911


And I will believe that the Star Ship Enterprise destroyed the towers with an ultra high-tech laser beam , before I believe that the Men-in-Black were going around planting evidence in the middle of all of the events of that day .

Funny , out of all the pros and cons of what happened on 9/11 , I have yet to see where anyone has been quoted as saying that they witnessed evidence being 'planted' .

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by Phil Jayhan
Let me guess, the wheel embedded in this WTC grid iron is a hologram, right? Pathetic!

Let me get this straight, you believe that wheel that's barely embedded in the grid stayed embedded in the grid after the very very hard 90-story fall on to the asphalt?

I'll believe the Pod theory before I believe that wheel was not planted.

So you believe that the government somehow planted a massive wheel of a plane after the largest terrorist attack on U.S soil? And nobody noticed?

Originally posted by hippomchippo
So you believe that the government somehow planted a massive wheel of a plane after the largest terrorist attack on U.S soil?

Yes, I do. Don't you after seeing these pics where it looks like the wheel was just rolled into the grid instead of staying loosely embedded after a very very hard 90-story fall trapped in a WTC facade grid?


(source)

Also, isn't it interesting that the closest vehicle to this "embedded wheel" is one that could have easily transported and concealed this aircraft wheel?

[edit on 24-4-2010 by ATH911]

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Is that the reason? It would appear that you continue to make unfounded and unresearched accusations against 9/11 truthers. See, before 9/11, I didn't care or pay attention to politics, didn't care or pay attention to the national or world news. I was just trying to live my life and never gave politics or the government a second thought.

What do you mean, "unfounded and unresearched accusations"? Need I remind you that it was YOU who posted those quotes elsewhere that someone claimed in knee jerk reflex that it was a Mossad oepration only hours after the attack? What do YOU thiing the odds are that the poster who made the claim had an anti-Israel hangup even before the 9/11 attack?

I can't comment on where you got this "the gov't is out to murder us all" hangup, but it's clear from the posts of your own compatriots here that you're the miniscule minority. I don't have to point out that the majority of posters here subscribe to one or more OTHER conspiracy claim (JFK assassination, moon landing being faked, USS Liberty attack, or whatever) so you can see they have preexisting antiestablishment leanings, and you'd have to be naive not to see it's clouding their judgement. Heck, I notice you've been coming down on these "no planers" and the "pod people" as much as I do.

So the question is, am I the one who's describing the conspiracy movement incorrectly, here, or is it you?



[edit on 25-4-2010 by GoodOlDave]

reply to post by ATH911


That's a nice theory. Not sure if your actually making that claim or not. but if so, whats the proof? Got any pictures of the men in the van planting the wheel like we do with the silver van at the Pentagon?

So the guys in the van stopped on this street here with hundreds of people around, unloaded this wheel and then, what, took pictures? Your theory isn't remotely workable or believable.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a982ad303e4c.jpg[/atsimg]

Cheers-
Phil

this argument is without a doubt the most confusing argument and the one that has ammo on bothsides .
in one hand, its hard to concieve a beer can taking out one gurter much less 15 plus. in the other hand we have some parts to planes other than 767 - we have video editing
*we have areo feats un achievable by experienced human pilots
*we have passports from arabs on the sidewalk, engine and wheels from
a much smaller aircraft..
well, if its any consolation, I'm on the fence on this one.
but, no-plane - there is a plane is of no consequence, 911 was a inside job. the details of which are just points of contention.