Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

Threads like these serve as a double-edged sword for members of the forum.

On the one hand, they discourage people with genuinely good intentions from wanting to post information they have come across. They see how others are ridiculed and attacked for wanting to express sensitive information they have come across. Those doing the attacking are convinced the person is lying from the beginning, and it becomes an almost impossible task to convince them otherwise.

On the other hand, threads like these make the average member unmotivated to take the claims seriously. When this happens enough, there will come a time when somebody who is the real deal and is telling the cold, raw truth will be ignored and members will miss out on some very valuable information.

It can be a fine line. I realise it is silly and illogical to take everything being re-laid as truth and genuine without credible supporting evidence. The trouble is that most people would NOT risk their own lives divulging critical information, but they get angry when others choose not to do the same. So then, why post at all? I am also getting annoyed at the many "I know the secrets but can't reveal then!" claims. But remember, there is a reason why the true nature of Secret Societies is not public knowledge. Maybe this person had a life-changing experience and felt the need to share it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[edit on 21/4/2010 by Dark Ghost]

reply to post by VinnyboyXI

How was it a meeting of the Knights Templars? Were they wearing uniforms? The Grand Encampment, Knights Templar USA, holds jurisdictional power over the Commanderies over there. What Lodge was this that you visited?

Are you sure it wasn't a clandestine one? The reason I ask this is if you weren't initiated to the level of the other Brothers why did they let you into the meeting? Plus, if you are only a EA, then there is no way you got into a Templar meeting.

You do realize that the Knights Templar are a part of the York Rite bodies. If I remember right, the Capitular degrees are a part of the Blue Lodge degrees in Europe. In America, the final body of the York Rite is called Chivalric Masonry where 3 Orders are conferred: Order of the Red Cross, Order of Malta, and Order of the Temple (Knights Templar). The Templar Order though in Masonry is in commemoration to the Knights that fought for the Christian religion.

reply to post by VinnyboyXI

So it was an interpreter that told you this was a Templar meeting?

[edit on 21-4-2010 by KSigMason]

I must say, in my humble opinion there must be some credibility to this story, or there would not be such zeal to quickly discredit it.

There is an old saying my Nephew Octavian, I think thou doest protest too much.

It is all fine and dandy that those of you of the brotherhood enjoy a fraternal kinship, but it ought not to supersede your devotion to ATS.

How much of his story is true is hard to say, but circling and nipping at him like a hungry pack of wolves when he has cautioned us he is nervous and not fully in control of his faculties because of these revelations is bad sport and manners.

For shame!

Should you see these men at the Lodge again Vincent please tell them that the auctorictas pincipis shall be returning this summer, and he is most displeased!

The haste comes from his supposed membership that no one can confirm. We didn't want the theorists to go "Ah ha!" at the word of someone who at the most is only an EA. An EA is not eligible to even join any appendant bodies or rites.

So our fraternal bonds shouldn't get in the way of ATS?

I don't want a cowan slandering the good name of my Order. Being both in the Blue Lodge and York Rite I am seeing several holes in his story.

If Vinny wants to come to Idaho, he can come and share his displeasure with me.

I believe Masons are told to lie to protect their organization. Therefore any Freemason that posts in this thread has no credibility at all and must be completely disregarded.

reply to post by Riposte

And where do you get this belief? Is your belief founded upon any facts?

reply to post by KSigMason

So our fraternal bonds shouldn't get in the way of ATS?

Absolutely not, its why the Masons have a credibility problem amongst the General Membership.

Further this, you guys can't confirm his membership????

You totally ignored the member who thinks he may have joined and asked you all to hold off before using all the standard emotional baiting tactics on vincent.

I would hate to see what his U2U's look like for having the decency to say hold up.

I find it all distasteful, I really don't think people involved in that kind of gang activity are credible, mannered, or helpful to the spirit of ATS.

I would have loved to have heard EVERYTHING Vincent had to say, and then form an opinion.

Instead, you guys purposefully put him on the defensive, started disecting every little word to take it off topic, and made a sham of his thread.

Absolutely pathetic.

What ever Vincent's imagined offenses are to your most sanctamonious brotherhood, they couldn't be half as offensive as your treatment towards him, and the rest of the ATS membership in doing everything you can to keep him from opening up and telling us his story so we could be the judges.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Like no one else you can bring reason into a thread like a candle in a dark room.

I was very interested in what Vincent had to say, I can't stand it when people hammer someone for not bringing forth sources...we have the internet, its not like Google won't help us.

But seriously, the Masons on here are pretty quick to devour anyone that questions them and their brotherhood.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

My membership means more to me than my account here on ATS so I will keep my oaths.

We could confirm it given that he would give us his full name, Lodge, and information that we could verify he is who he says he is and not an impersonator.

That's why I asked him about attending a clandestine Lodge and my other questions are for clarification. Like I said, I find some holes in his story being that I'm a member of the Blue Lodge and the York Rite.

I listened to everything he had to say and then started asking questions, but Augustus does bring up some good points about if he is even a member given the basic requirements for balloting.

He said in his OP that he promised the members of the Lodge he visited that he wouldn't say anything more, its not us.

LOL I love reading the pages about Masonry and the drama. To the OP you havent stated anything that isnt already known to someone that pays attention.

reply to post by KSigMason


My friend, when people start making statements like you misspelled a word, and hanging discrediting an entire story based on some notion, that only the truth comes replete with correct spelling, that is the mother of all ruses.

Who would do that, except for someone desperate to have other people not listen and consider?

Therefore we have to ask, why the desperation.

These tactics employed against him, give him more credibility than less credibility.

I would be much more interested in the name of the lodge in Italy he claims to have visited than the lodge he belongs to here in the United States.

I have seen some other relatively, new, and less experienced Masons here on ATS question some things about the order, the man who was upset his lodge brothers thought ill of his woman because she had tattoos, and his propensity to get into physical altercations in drinking establishments while accompanied by fellow members comes to mind.

He was upset, at these things, but not upset enough to betray his oaths.

Now if you had more respect for the rest of us, you would know that, you have more or less just stated, that something in Vincent’s OP was a betrayal of oath!

Even though he revealed little of any true substance, and it was a big enough betrayal of oath, to have you all worried what might come flowing out next.

So much for esoteric wisdom! This is why I wanted to keep all the legions in uniform and properly trained.
No, Caesar, it costs too much money Caesar, the Empire is going broke Caesar, and we have to economize Caesar!

Rotten no good bankers!

Anyway, we both know Vincent wouldn’t get this level and type of attention, unless there were concerns, so why pretend.

The link of the Knights Templar to the Masonic Movements is strong, and the link to the Knights Templar to Rome is Strong.

What we don’t really know, thanks to Vincent’s minders, is anything beyond this anecdotal and passé connection.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


but OP didnt tell us anything to discredit. the quite literally is NO STORY. Thats why alot of us are calling bull.

its like if I started a thread that said I went into the hollow earth and left it at that.

let me sum up the story OP told: I'm a freemason, I went to Italy to a meeting, I heard crazy but true stories and I cant tell you anything. end of story

I'm willing to listen to his story, but he hasnt said anything at all

Meh.. not to be rude at all, but these sorts of posts are just absolutely worthless. Unsubstantiated, lacking all proof, and we have the typical "vow of silence" thing in effect, so we can't know all the top-super-secret information.

I don't think I'm inclined to believe in an all-powerful organization, simply because some random person we don't know says "Omg.. this really happened to me, like.. REALLY! It was like.. profound!" Yea.. ok.. if you say so.

Originally posted by dalan.
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Like no one else you can bring reason into a thread like a candle in a dark room.

I was very interested in what Vincent had to say, I can't stand it when people hammer someone for not bringing forth sources...we have the internet, its not like Google won't help us.

But seriously, the Masons on here are pretty quick to devour anyone that questions them and their brotherhood.

I really don't think that the Masons understand that us true conspiracy theorists will look at everything very critically all on our own, and probably do a better job at it than they would.

We do like to hear the story first, the devils in the details.

They love to pretend, only Masons can tell if a person knows something interesting about Masons, while at the same time, wanting to maintain secrecy about everything, so that there is no way to tell how objective their own standards are.

It’s rather disreputable to say the least!

I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and hear it all for myself.

Thanks for the kind words, and the thoughtful post.


[edit on 22/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

His story is filled with holes and until he can clear it up, nothing can be taken as true.

I would like to know both, the Lodge he visited in Italy and the one he belongs to in the US.

He didn't reveal anything secret, but he's establishing a false understanding of Freemasonry. The most he could be is an EA and he could not have attended a Templar meeting as an EA. That's why I am thinking he visited a clandestine Lodge or his interpreter told him something and his mind wandered. Either way the story doesn't hold.

Originally posted by Totalstranger
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

but OP didnt tell us anything to discredit. the quite literally is NO STORY. Thats why alot of us are calling bull.

its like if I started a thread that said I went into the hollow earth and left it at that.

let me sum up the story OP told: I'm a freemason, I went to Italy to a meeting, I heard crazy but true stories and I cant tell you anything. end of story

I'm willing to listen to his story, but he hasnt said anything at all

No one really gave him a chance. People in general are not good at communicating things. Often they need coaxed, and drawn out with high quality questions.

Further the fact that a person can't prove a story through a particular medium at a particular time, does not mean in and of itself the story is false.

I could say, I am here with the Swedish Bikini Team, but I have no webcam to show you.

That doesn't mean they aren't here, and it doesn't mean that maybe another means of proof could not be arrived at.

What's more still, is there are times in an individual's life, that events can be so overwhelming that it leads to a state of shock.

You should have seen me the first time the Swedish Bikini Team came over!

I could just picture you guys down at Gitmo...

Mason A to Terrorist A...

Your not a terrorist! Where is your turban.

Terrorist A...

I am so I left it at home...

Mason B....

Your not a terrorist, terrorists always wear their turbans...

You guys need to watch some detective shows!

Really!







[edit on 22/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

lol...
Let the GAMES begin, right ladies and gentlemen?

I have some advice for those folks who wish to post masonic secrets publicly... do so with tact and discretion as you are in the midst of masons. If you have been sworn to secrecy, and you violate that oath warlock, then a simple phone call to the regional Master will see you go the way of Captain Morgan in less than 24 hours.

Other than that, lol, it's pretty funny that the OP attended a Knights Templar meeting lol... but hey, that's cool. After all, my ancestors were Templars, and some still are...

However, truth be known, that at some point during their journey, EVERY Free Mason becomes a Knight Templar... by achieving the degree that the Templar represents.

And there you have it.

I haven't read much of this thread but will do so at my leisure, I'm sure.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You guys need to watch some detective shows!

Here is a good one for them to start with:





[edit on 4/22/2010 by dalan.]

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

His story is filled with holes and until he can clear it up, nothing can be taken as true.

I would like to know both, the Lodge he visited in Italy and the one he belongs to in the US.

He didn't reveal anything secret, but he's establishing a false understanding of Freemasonry. The most he could be is an EA and he could not have attended a Templar meeting as an EA. That's why I am thinking he visited a clandestine Lodge or his interpreter told him something and his mind wandered. Either way the story doesn't hold.

This is all Greek to me, and as far as establishing a false understanding of Freemasonry, there is no yardstick to gauge the accuracy of your own statement, since it's a secret society.

Not just a secret society, but a gradient hierarchal secret society!

So what you don't realize is because of these simple evident truths, everyone's story is full of holes!

Your holes come from secrets (I know I can learn all about it on line from some dubious source).

His holes come from wanting to also keep secrets.

Grab some beef stock and some onions and we got enough swiss cheese for French Onion Soup Au Gratin!

You guys know what you did, and I do too.

You say you were asked to attend a meeting and to interpret and we are meant to believe this. That someone that is not known at all is asked to interpret something so "shocking" as you are making it seem, it is barely believable.

I will say this, if you are telling the truth, WHAT is shocking about a relationship between the Freemasons and the Knights Templar? What is shocking if people who are recognizable in politics or people of power were present? And WHAT is shocking if how things are conducted in Italy are DIFFERENT than they are in America?

First off, you obviously do not take SERIOUSLY your vows if you are at all a Freemason to be on here "reviling" fellow Freemasons as you claim to be.

You have NO place in being a FREEMASON if you are going to libel and slander these men who as you claim entrusted to you a meeting and the work of interpretation.

If you are a FREEMASON I would ask that you seriously consider WHY you are one and WHAT you intended to find in Masonry? If you are not, I must say that to have gained the trust of anyone, asked to interpret and then go on here 'slandering' them by appealing to the sense of the dramatic on this board is more shocking to your idea of what a MAN is.

Do you shake a mans hand and then turn around and insinuate stories about him behind his back? That is what you are doing right here on this board.

If you are indeed a FREEMASON then you need to ask yourself what you are looking for and is this how a man would behave if given the trust of other men.

IF you are not, then seeking sensational attention in this manner by reviling men of good character is implorable and disgusting.

I would certainly hope you consider removing your thread from this board immediately if you are in fact a Freemason. IF you are not I would certainly expect that you would do the same.

Would you post a sensational story with little or no facts and claim to be a police officer if you were not, or a fireman or an astronaut?

And what in heavens could possibly be surprising about the possiblity that Masons and Templars are related. Why would this at all be shocking to you?


I truly question your motives and I think all Critical Thinkers on this board should as well!