Reminder: Walmart destroying our economies

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Scarcer
Research Costco on the other hand, low prices without compromising worker standards and great customer service.

Good for them. Perhaps Costco's model will force Walmart to match or exceed it's standards.

Quite odd though that you'll smear Walmart yet bolster Costco.

Costco isn't as wide spread as Walmart and isn't as aggressive, in fact in in the state of Arkansas as an example, there is no Costco, partly because Walmart has taken over the states economy.

Costco IS a supercenter, but it has higher standards for payroll and customer service. I support Costco in the form of lesser of the two evils. I'll gladly support Walmart's competition as long as it remains ethical to an extent.

Originally posted by Scarcer
You have #3 partly right. But it IS also due to lowered standards. People can't afford American made products any more because of these lowered standards in prices. The only way for many companies to compete is to outsource.

#2 Last time I checked, minimum wage wasn't enough to make a living. So does it make minimum wage ok? Walmart has also been accused of hiring illegals to do work for under minimum wage and having poor work environments.

#1 Let's see here. The main thing driving the economy in my area is farming. Yakima Valley is a HUGE outsourcer for crops, wine and hopps. Many businesses have closed in Yakima Valley, but there are still many independant businesses, usually the ones that offer what service Walmart can't, and also because we have a large economy. If it wasn't for the farming, we would have no economy, and we wouldn't have much to choose from besides Walmart. Right now, I'm lucky to live where I do, but only few areas have the kind of potential Yakima Valley has.

I don't see you using real world examples.

1. Again, American products cost more because of terrible government policies. If people sell and buy foreign made items, vote in people who know a thing or two about business.

2. Minimum wage is terrible, no argument. But if you are an employee who can't manage to perform work well enough to command more than minimum wage it's not the fault of the employer. The minimum wage laws are likely forcing them to pay such an employee more than they're actually worth.

3. So what again is the problem? You have a farming economy that Walmart does not seem to be affecting. You have local businesses thriving on it. I fail to see the issue you brought forth

Originally posted by Scarcer
Costco isn't as wide spread as Walmart and isn't as aggressive, in fact in in the state of Arkansas as an example, there is no Costco, partly because Walmart has taken over the states economy.

Costco IS a supercenter, but it has higher standards for payroll and customer service. I support Costco in the form of lesser of the two evils. I'll gladly support Walmart's competition as long as it remains ethical to an extent.

Good deal. Use your dollars to support who you like. If Costco does better because of their policies, Walmart loses ground and will either operate with better standards or lose money and customers.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


You sir, are the root cause of the American problem: Over-consumption. I'm completely on-board with the OP on this one. Wal-Mart does harm domestic economies, all for the sake of providing so-called quality products at lower prices.

You are correct when you state that consumption stimulates the economy, but in the case of Wal-Mart, they export jobs to foreign countries which is WHY prices are so low. The products aren't quality, just their exterior looks like it is. When Wal-Mart imports products from foreign countries into the United States, it does NOT help GDP. GDP=Consumption+Investment+Government+(Exports-Imports). When imports exceed exports, you have a trade deficit. NOT GOOD.

Americans try to hard to keep up with the Joneses so to speak. Like in 18th century Europe during the industrial revolution, the newly formed middle-class attempted to "buy into" nobility by attempting to purchase and wear goods that looked much like traditional upper-class goods, but at a much lower price. Americans try to do just that. Wal-Mart goods may look nice, and function well for a while, but they will fall apart due to their cheap manufacturing process after some time.

If you can't live like the upper class, stop trying to at the cost of exporting jobs and further stimulation companies to use terrible employment practices in developing/third world countries.

Now note, not all of Wal-Mart is bad. I've shopped there myself. But don't deny the fact that consumptious westerners don't care about others so-as-long as they get "more bang" for their buck.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Scarcer
You have #3 partly right. But it IS also due to lowered standards. People can't afford American made products any more because of these lowered standards in prices. The only way for many companies to compete is to outsource.

#2 Last time I checked, minimum wage wasn't enough to make a living. So does it make minimum wage ok? Walmart has also been accused of hiring illegals to do work for under minimum wage and having poor work environments.

#1 Let's see here. The main thing driving the economy in my area is farming. Yakima Valley is a HUGE outsourcer for crops, wine and hopps. Many businesses have closed in Yakima Valley, but there are still many independant businesses, usually the ones that offer what service Walmart can't, and also because we have a large economy. If it wasn't for the farming, we would have no economy, and we wouldn't have much to choose from besides Walmart. Right now, I'm lucky to live where I do, but only few areas have the kind of potential Yakima Valley has.

I don't see you using real world examples.

1. Again, American products cost more because of terrible government policies. If people sell and buy foreign made items, vote in people who know a thing or two about business.

2. Minimum wage is terrible, no argument. But if you are an employee who can't manage to perform work well enough to command more than minimum wage it's not the fault of the employer. The minimum wage laws are likely forcing them to pay such an employee more than they're actually worth.

3. So what again is the problem? You have a farming economy that Walmart does not seem to be affecting. You have local businesses thriving on it. I fail to see the issue you brought forth

I love how you explain everything away blissfully.

1. Policies can be bad, I've experienced it, but some of these policies are good. Sure sure, vote for this person vote for that; but I'm not welcome to educate others on what I believe? That's what you seam to be saying. Edit, Should I also remind you that American made products are better made, more durable and more functional?

2. Payment is a huge variable in how much employees care about their job. So your saying a corporation as rich as Walmart can't afford to pay their workers a little more? Rather prude.

3. Economies are not exclusive to one area. Sorounding economies cause a domino affect. As I said, businesses have closed. In the past few years I've witnessed many large and small stores go vacant. But we still have an economy. The only growth in recent years has been outside of town and are farm related, again, something that Walmart can't compete with. The problem with farming though is that available space doesn't expand, it shrinks. And as so-rounding economies weaken, people move into Yakima Valley. Job's aren't impossible to get, but they are getting difficult to find.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Scarcer]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Yeah. Okay. Did you get run out of business by Walmart or are you simply jumping on the anti-Walmart bandwagon because you have something in your craw about capitalism?

No, I didn't get run out of business by walmart. I do know people(close relatives) that did though! I support socialism, aka fettered capitalism.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Walmart is not "unfettered capitalism", in fact it's subject to plenty of government regulations.

Yes enviromental laws, minimum wage laws and anti-trust laws exist but over the course of the century they have been water-down and barely ever enforced.

In other words, they are almost meaningless...

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
To answer your contentions by number:

1. There are plenty of small businesses still thriving that have survived and will survive Walmart by finding new ways to compete.

2. Even the "lowest" Walmart employees are still subject to minimum wage and labor laws and are neither mistreated nor underpaid.

3. Companies go overseas for a variety of reasons and the vast majority of them have to do with terrible government policies, not Walmart.

(1)not many (2)minimum wage laws are still quite low in most states and workers have little or no protection from labor unions. (3)Yes it all starts from government.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Scarcer
Costco isn't as wide spread as Walmart and isn't as aggressive, in fact in in the state of Arkansas as an example, there is no Costco, partly because Walmart has taken over the states economy.

Costco IS a supercenter, but it has higher standards for payroll and customer service. I support Costco in the form of lesser of the two evils. I'll gladly support Walmart's competition as long as it remains ethical to an extent.

Good deal. Use your dollars to support who you like. If Costco does better because of their policies, Walmart loses ground and will either operate with better standards or lose money and customers.

Good, I'm happy your allowing me to continue doing that. Now I'll continue educating others to do the same.

...author of op lives in washington state... his girlfriend lives in arkansas... costco began in washington state... walmart began in arkansas...


...in 2009 costco ranked 3rd largest retailer in the usofa and 9th in the world... wanna guess who #1 and #2 were?...


...if you're gonna whine about supercenters, whine about all of them or you'll just look like you need a fresh diaper, a bah-bah and a nap...

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...author of op lives in washington state... his girlfriend lives in arkansas... costco began in washington state... walmart began in arkansas...

...in 2009 costco ranked 3rd largest retailer in the usofa and 9th in the world... wanna guess who #1 and #2 were?...

...if you're gonna whine about supercenters, whine about all of them or you'll just look like you need a fresh diaper, a bah-bah and a nap...

Correction, home state, as in she grew up there ._.

But yeah, that is rather ironic.

I thought Costco was the 5th largest, unless that's old news. Anyway I looked up Costco's growth and it is growing at a larger rate than I thought.

While Costco is an 'ethical' super center, in the future there would be potential for abuse. But first I want to see Walmart go down, and take my risk with Costco in the future.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Scarcer]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Scarcer

Sorry but I found your comment rather bland, on what grounds do you have to say it's ludicrous, what good is it doing for our economy?

My opinion that claiming Walmart as [paraphrased] "evil" and that by shopping there one is destroying the economy is ludicrous is all the grounds I need. Purchasing products stimulates the economy. Walmart employs people who may not have other opportunities for employment. Attracting customers by offering a huge selection and lower prices is one of the great things about capitalism.

And likewise, I find all the anti-Walmart rhetoric quite bland. If you don't like it you're free to shop elsewhere. As long as they have a good price on something I want, they get my cash.

if you watched the videos the op linked you would not be saying this. i watched the first and can honestly say i will never shop in that worthless store again

Originally posted by Scarcer
While Costco is an 'ethical' super center, in the future there would be potential for abuse.

...prove that costco is ethical and, while you're at it, prove walmart is unethical and has hired illegal immigrants and is guilty of the other allegations you made...

Originally posted by Scarcer
But first I want to see Walmart go down, and take my risk with Costco in the future.

...seemed like a personal problem from the get go - and - you stating that you enjoyed causing trouble in walmart stores didnt help your case a bit (made you look like a juvenile delinquent)...

...so, whats the real issue with you?... did walmart fire you or refuse to hire you or did you get arrested or embarrassed for causing trouble in one of their stores or are you employed by costco?...

Sam Walton must be spinning in his grave, his original idea was for Walmart to sell as many US MADE products as possible...

This link is for an opinion piece but it does show how Walmart will drive companies out of the US just to meet some arbitrary price-point (even if the company is the sole supplier of the product):

www.peoplesworld.org...

I haven't shopped at Walmart around here in about 5 years. Walking into one of the Walmarts around here feels like a third-world country - concrete floors, cramped, etc. There's a regional chain (Meijers) that has decent prices too but they have clean, bright stores.

I do get the feeling that Walmart has a bit of a bait-and-switch policy. They may be less expensive on grocery items, but electronics, toys, etc seem to be the same prices as anywhere else.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by Scarcer
While Costco is an 'ethical' super center, in the future there would be potential for abuse.

...prove that costco is ethical and, while you're at it, prove walmart is unethical and has hired illegal immigrants and is guilty of the other allegations you made...

Originally posted by Scarcer
But first I want to see Walmart go down, and take my risk with Costco in the future.

...seemed like a personal problem from the get go - and - you stating that you enjoyed causing trouble in walmart stores didnt help your case a bit (made you look like a juvenile delinquent)...

...so, whats the real issue with you?... did walmart fire you or refuse to hire you or did you get arrested or embarrassed for causing trouble in one of their stores or are you employed by costco?...

money.cnn.com...

www.foxnews.com...

www.cbsnews.com...

3 different MSM sources saying wal mart knowingly hired illegals

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by Scarcer
While Costco is an 'ethical' super center, in the future there would be potential for abuse.

...prove that costco is ethical and, while you're at it, prove walmart is unethical and has hired illegal immigrants and is guilty of the other allegations you made...

Originally posted by Scarcer
But first I want to see Walmart go down, and take my risk with Costco in the future.

...seemed like a personal problem from the get go - and - you stating that you enjoyed causing trouble in walmart stores didnt help your case a bit (made you look like a juvenile delinquent)...

...so, whats the real issue with you?... did walmart fire you or refuse to hire you or did you get arrested or embarrassed for causing trouble in one of their stores or are you employed by costco?...

Many of your questions are irrelevant to the primary point of this thread and personally I shall not explain myself away to you.

For the rest, you can refer to the rest of the thread. For if you need more 'proof' or you can't do a couple quick searches for yourself than ignorance be upon you.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Scarcer]

Originally posted by For(Home)Country
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

You sir, are the root cause of the American problem: Over-consumption. I'm completely on-board with the OP on this one. Wal-Mart does harm domestic economies, all for the sake of providing so-called quality products at lower prices.

No, sir, I am not the root cause of the "American Problem", whatever that is... over consumption? Right. I live quite modestly. When I want quality products I don't get them from Walmart. When I need inexpensive necessities, I usually frequent what are known as "dollar stores" - locally owned and operated discount stores. In fact, my Walmart purchases are rather rare. You have made this assumption as well as another that stereotypical Americans - such as myself - try to live an aristocratic life at a bargain by supporting big box stores that supply faux-quality items at a discount. You could not be more incorrect and bigoted. I simply have no ill-will against companies that drive prices down and force local businesses to compete in the free market in new ways.

Originally posted by Shake

if you watched the videos the op linked you would not be saying this. i watched the first and can honestly say i will never shop in that worthless store again

I've seen them before. No offense but if you, like others, are that influenced by internet videos then you don't have the critical thinking skills to see through the bias presented to you. Such videos convince people that 911 was an inside job and governments are spraying people with "chemtrails", etc. I guess they can convince you that certain businesses are unworthy as well.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I support socialism, aka fettered capitalism.

That explains quite clearly why you've made up nonsense about Walmart because you're disgusted with its success. Socialism is not in any way "fettered capitalism" and any true socialist knows better. Because of your admitted bias I can no longer take your arguments with any value, not that I did beforehand as they were extremely transparent.

Yes walmart ruins economies. They don't pay taxes for the first couple years so yours goes up so there can be a super center in your town. Thats why they build on the out skirts of a town and make the town build to them. Thats why the light that goes towards walmart, if there is one, stays on longer then the others do. But you have a choice of not to shop there. If it bothers you that much then don't go there.

reply to post by Scarcer


I was interested to let this thread go on for a while to see what other sorts of replies you would get.

What about other mega stores, like Kmart, Target, etc...? Pretty much, they are all the same, and have the shelves stocked with the same items, and they operate pretty much the same. Why are you just targeting Wal-Mart?

Where do you shop, because I would love to know where you can go for only American made items? Even smaller stores sell lots of items that are not made in America.

How about fast food chains that sell burgers made with imported beef? Your local grocery store that sells imported produce from Chile?

The economy may be in bad shape do to what you suggest, but not all foreign products that cost less, are of a poorer quality, either.

Wal-Mart does sell some American made products by the way, so, I think you are being a little biased about some of your statements.

Originally posted by Scarcer
I love how you explain everything away blissfully.

1. Policies can be bad, I've experienced it, but some of these policies are good. Sure sure, vote for this person vote for that; but I'm not welcome to educate others on what I believe? That's what you seam to be saying. Edit, Should I also remind you that American made products are better made, more durable and more functional?

2. Payment is a huge variable in how much employees care about their job. So your saying a corporation as rich as Walmart can't afford to pay their workers a little more? Rather prude.

3. Economies are not exclusive to one area. Sorounding economies cause a domino affect. As I said, businesses have closed. In the past few years I've witnessed many large and small stores go vacant. But we still have an economy. The only growth in recent years has been outside of town and are farm related, again, something that Walmart can't compete with. The problem with farming though is that available space doesn't expand, it shrinks. And as so-rounding economies weaken, people move into Yakima Valley. Job's aren't impossible to get, but they are getting difficult to find.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Scarcer]

1. Great. Some American products are better, but cost more due to government policy and union costs. If people buy them, great. If they buy foreign products due to price, so be it. Educate people to vote better and hopefully we can bring the cost of American products down.

2. Corporations exchange the value of a worker's labor for money. It's not a matter of how much money the corporation has, it's a matter of how valuable that worker is. I'm certain if it was your money, you wouldn't pay any more to an employee than what they were worth to you. Same for any corporation.

3. Local businesses will perish if a national conglomerate offers better prices or another local business offers better prices. That's the way it works. If you cannot find a way to compete you lose your shirt. It's not Walmart's fault, nor the fault of a local competitor for finding a better way of doing business. Sure, it's sad to see Ma & Pa going out of business but business models and structures change over time and that is the unfortunate by-product. Within the new business models and structures new entrepreneurs will present themselves and opportunities become available. Welcome to capitalism. Department stores once eliminated general stores. Big deal. Things change, life goes on, things always get better when the consumer benefits.