U.S. Accuses Goldman Sachs of Fraud [update]

reply to post by TheCoffinman


I would say the morons are the people who don't get behind this move.

Looks to me that Obama is very serious about this fight, and this has been one of his stated goals from the beginning.

The fight to take back our country is just beginning.

It certainly has made me a fan of Obama.

Originally posted by blood0fheroes
reply to post by Light of Night

 

I think the government needs to step in and.....

Lets stop right there. Im rather fond of the way Einstein put it: " You cannot solve a problem with the thinking that created the problem."

Government intervention not only does not work, it does so poorly. Consistency is only a virtue if youre not a screw-up. Government intervention is what has gotten us into this mess.
Intervention in free trade, in housing, in medicine, and in schooling to start with just a few.
Even if one assumes that they do so with the most honest, and upright intentions. As the old saying goes: "The road to hell is Paved with good intentions"

IMHO, the only reason they are pointing the proverbial finger now, is to divert attention away from their own mistakes.

Damn right, we should let them do whatever they want, that will create better results!

reply to post by Maxmars


I have so much faith in the US legal system that nuthin' gonna happen.
The CEO might get Maddof as a new Bunkie, but as he probably does
not own a single dime, got buckleys of getting any money back.
The company will live on, if they run out of funds to screw over the
Public they just ask the Prez for more money and the public get screwed
over by the Government.

Nothing will come of this.

April 17 (Bloomberg) -- Germany may take legal action against Goldman Sachs Group Inc. after the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission said it was suing the company on fraud charges, government spokesman Ulrich Wilhelm said. The German financial regulator, Bafin, “will ask the SEC for information,” Wilhelm, main spokesman for Chancellor Angela Merkel, said today by phone. “Then we will look at the records and consider possible legal steps.”

Goldman was sued yesterday by U.S. regulators for fraud tied to collateralized debt obligations that contributed to the financial crisis. In the complaint, the SEC cited Dusseldorf- based IKB Deutsche Industriebank AG as a purchaser of part of the CDO at issue. In 2008, Germany’s state-owned KfW development bank pumped almost 10 billion euros ($13.5 billion) into IKB to shore up the German banking system. It’s too early to say whether any legal action will relate to IKB, Wilhelm said. “First we have to ask for information,” he said

Gordon Brown has joined the chorus:

UK Brown Wants Special Investigation Into Goldman Actions Wall Street Journal

He said he wants the FSA to start its investigation immediatly and said U.K. authorities will work with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on the probe.

Max Keiser laying it on the line about GS back in July:




Goldman Sachs helped Greece mask real debt:



[edit on 18-4-2010 by EvilAxis]

Originally posted by Light of Night
reply to post by oshdra

 

So, can we say you did get surprised and still think there have been nothing new?? how is that??

Personally, when I read "Goldman Sachs charged with fraud" I though: wuau, the impossible is just happening. I mean, if the bad guys at wall street are enforced to comply the law, is a good thing for the economy... isn't it?

Yea, it surprised me until I read it was a civil case. Then the nostalgia wore off really quickly. Civil case isn't anything.

This move is nothing more than politics.

Well, I see that the civil case is in fact more than politics:
Moral bankrupcy


The action is drawing people attention, and that is the really important point.

I intend to make this a thread of it's own but just in case you were following along here....

Investor Who Made Billions Is Not Target of Suit

Eager to increase his bets against subprime mortgages, the investor, John A. Paulson, canvassed firm after firm, looking for new ways to profit from home loans that he was sure would go sour.

Only a few investment banks agreed to help him. One was Deutsche Bank. The other was the mighty Goldman Sachs.

Mr. Paulson struck gold. His prescience made him billions and transformed him from a relative nobody into something of a celebrity on Wall Street and in Washington.

But now his brassy bets have thrust Mr. Paulson into an uncomfortable spotlight. On Friday, the Securities and Exchange Commission filed a civil fraud lawsuit against Goldman for neglecting to tell its customers that mortgage investments they were buying consisted of pools of dubious loans that Mr. Paulson had selected because they were highly likely to fail. ...

The top managers who will take the fall for this are still being sorted out of the 'cloud.'

Top Goldman Leaders Said to Have Overseen Mortgage Unit

... Among those who saw disaster looming were an effusive young Frenchman, Fabrice P. Tourre, and his quiet colleague, Jonathan M. Egol, the mastermind behind a series of mortgage deals known as the Abacus investments.

Their elite mortgage unit is now at the center of allegations that Goldman and Mr. Tourre, 31, defrauded investors with one of those complex deals.

The Securities and Exchange Commission filed a civil fraud suit on Friday that essentially says that Goldman built the financial equivalent of a time bomb and then sold it to unwitting investors. Mr. Egol, 40, was not named in the S.E.C.’s suit.

Goldman has vowed to fight the S.E.C. But the allegations have left many on Wall Street wondering how far the investigation might spread inside Goldman and perhaps beyond. ....

Look for these names on the witness list... or not!

reply to post by Maxmars


I have to wonder how central Goldman Sachs is to all that went down.

Personally, I think the bar is set far too high for these fraud cases. Make a decision a police officer disagrees with on stopping at a traffic light, and you are automatically guilty, but steal billions, and they have to prove you intended to do just that. That is quite the gap in justice in my opinion.



[edit on 19-4-2010 by poet1b]

Sources are from CNN, Fox News, and the Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

Goldman Sachs handed out 5 Billion Dollars for Bonuses so far this year!

16 Billion in Bonuses in 2009.

These people can not police themselves!

AND REPUBLICANS are not even permitting discussion about reform in legislature???

Who has two thumbs and doesn't give a care?
Republicans: "These Guys".

Republicans Favor doing nothing to prevent this in the future?
they probably got bonuses too.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Sources are from CNN, Fox News, and the Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

Goldman Sachs handed out 5 Billion Dollars for Bonuses so far this year!

16 Billion in Bonuses in 2009.

These people can not police themselves!

AND REPUBLICANS are not even permitting discussion about reform in legislature???

Who has two thumbs and doesn't give a care?
Republicans: "These Guys".

Republicans Favor doing nothing to prevent this in the future?
they probably got bonuses too.

While this case is disgusting and those that committed the fraud deserve punishment, it does not mean that everyone Goldman are bad people. There are many completely normal and constructive things that Goldman and their employees do, and they therefore deserve those bonuses. Goldman makes money for their clients and helps clients achieve their goals. Thats 110% fine as long as everything they do is above board and disclosed. This fraud case was an instance where they didn't, as I am sure there are other instances as well. However, that does not mean that they are all that way, or that many of the people that work there do not deserve bonuses.

You seem to have quite a bit of anger for someone following esoteric teachings. You may want to go back an study your lessons again my friend.

reply to post by Maxmars


can anyone tell me what could even happen to them with this coming out?

Originally posted by tylermbell
reply to post by Maxmars

 

can anyone tell me what could even happen to them with this coming out?

The answer to that question calls for speculation and generalization, which is usually followed up with flaming from the members who may know more about the subject than I do. But I will try, and hope that anyone out there with better understanding correct me and advise us appropriately.

Assuming the case being brought by this fledgling SEC unit (recently created to deal with "complex" issues - such as derivatives) is found to be viable and not dealt with through 'settlement' (this IS a civil case - so settlement is an option), this case could open the door on several key managers to be charged with criminal fraud, racketeering, and depending on how hard the accusers push even money laundering and perhaps more.

Although I have never seen it taken to the final degree (who ever does where bankers are concerned) I would explore a 'new' concept - economic terrorism. The effect the alleged perpetrators had was one of national debilitation and international chaos.

The problem is that our political machinery - which is thoroughly entrenched in the regulatory oversight and enforcement end of the government, are the prime benefactors of the same institutions that need policing. Asking the fox to guard the hen house is a good analogy. The SEC are generally replete with people who's career aspirations include becoming members of the industry they are overseeing, and in fact, most of them come from there in the first place.

The thread that could unravel here is an ugly one, because it is the single most prominent example (outside of the Pentagon - maybe) of the infusion of private corporate leaders being politically appointed into key areas of the government, all without regard to the moral hazards such appointments represent.

The 'creation' of financial vehicles by these financial institutions is under the 'tutelage' of the Fed (international banking cartel.)

Where could this lead? The utter usurpation of the government as an authority capable of controlling the natural tendency of capitalist mercantilism to exploit the dickens out of every possible target in the market - OR - the complete hamstringing of the financial institution to operate as a monetary monopoly, free from 'national laws' and contrivances of 'national sovereignty'.

But it will not be the establishment's drive that will seek the correction of the abuse of trust, because in this, they are complicit either by intent, or indifference (unless you include incompetence as a possible third alternative.) The only way this can be resolved in a manner which may represent the will of the actual SOURCE of the wealth (you and I) is if we make the continuation of the monetary monopoly completely unsustainable.

Since we lack a coherent press to carry our voices to the leadership; and since the leadership no longer honors the citizens desires beyond the cosmetic, we can be certain that we must develop a new model to convey the will of the population to their servants.

Right now, with a tiny fragment of people owning all major media outlets, and those same people being primarily functionaries of the financial empires, it is unlikely anything will change.

I suspect there will be a financial settlement which will inconvenience the money masters, but they will essential remain devoid of personal consequences, and they will create new obfuscatory financial models through which they can siphon off revenue into their own pockets. Their politically purchased cronies will submit out of self interest, or the interest of those closest to them personally.

In the end, even the accusation may be part of a grander plan to satisfy the common man that something is being done. All the while they still monopolize monetary policy across the globe, and NO one seems interested in challenging that, outside of the theatrical.

[edit on 21-4-2010 by Maxmars]

reply to post by Maxmars
Great thread Maxmars! S&F and all that! Sadly,I think the SEC going after Goldman Sachs is laughable there is no way those gutless cowards will do anything severe to them.I expect that every financial reporter,talking head,writer will be on every news network crying about how outta control the SEC is and whining: "why is the President allowing such abuse against poor helpless Goldman Sachs?"The markets will take a bit of a dive in response while the pundits darkly hint of a depression and unrest then the President calls them off and the american public assuming they are paying attention will assume that Obama has it well in hand and the looting continues.

reply to post by Maxmars
Great thread Maxmars! S&F and all that! Sadly,I think the SEC going after Goldman Sachs is laughable there is no way those gutless cowards will do anything severe to them.I expect that every financial reporter,talking head,writer will be on every news network crying about how outta control the SEC is and whining: "why is the President allowing such abuse against poor helpless Goldman Sachs?"The markets will take a bit of a dive in response while the pundits darkly hint of a depression and unrest then the President calls them off and the american public assuming they are paying attention will think that Obama has it well in hand and the looting continues.

[edit on 113030p://0426 by mike dangerously]

Originally posted by Maxmars

Seems that the press is finally catching up to us here on the whole "corrupt" banking vehicles and self-serving financial institution business.

Better yet, what were they reporting on when their shady dealings were being perpetrated?

See my signature?
Am i failing to live up to that standard?
i do not know what my government did with Trillions of dollars over the past decade. how good of a citizen am i? how good of a member of society am i? Can anyone anywhere explain to me where the money went if it never existed in t he first place?

It was like buying fire insurance on your neighbors home? And that part of it wasn't illegal. what was illegal was marketing it,, and selling it while knowing it would fail while betting against the same investments.

and john paulson still makes 3.7 billion dollars doing it?

well bend me over and ravage my backside with a telephone pole, and call me glenn beck's fluffer.

The reality may be that there is no fixing this system.

This whole disposable society, consumer driven economics simply is not sustainable.

Fiat money based on one huge con game does not create a system that functions legitimately.

reply to post by johnny2127


You made some good points. but the truth is their are entities at work here that can't account for over a trillion dollars in less than 10 years. Goldman Sachs is an example of, dare i say a model of what the top dogs do in our current economic model. as to their ethics and morals. i'm undecided.

IMHO the civil case is really for some dramatic effects: The Death of Goldman Sachs

What died today was Goldman Sachs. It has existed for 140 years. But today all that ended, as the head of Goldman Sachs, Lloyd Blankfein, in his prepared remarks before the Senate Governmental Affairs Subcommittee on Investigations, said "We have been a client-centered firm for 140 years and if our clients believe that we don't deserve their trust, we cannot survive."

In late 2001, the collapse of ENRON led to the death of the legendary accounting firm Arthur Andersen. Arthur Anderson's reputation was unmatched in the field; but, in 2002, Arthur Andersen was found guilty of criminal charges related to its auditing of ENRON and gave up its license to practice accounting. Criminal behavior. No trust. Reputation destroyed. No customers. Firm dead.
Welcome to the Arthur Andersen reality, Goldman Sachs. Civil charges of fraud brought, and there may be more coming. No trust. Reputation destroyed. No customers. Firm dead.

And the plot thickens,

Feds Open A Criminal Probe Into Goldman Trades

Goldman's legal troubles are deepening. Federal prosecutors at the US Attorney's Office in Manhattan have opened a criminal probe into the Wall Street giant's mortgage trading, reports the Wall Street Journal. Prosecutors are looking for evidence of securities fraud but haven't decided whether to bring charges.

www.newser.com...