VIDEO: Gunshots Fired In Immediate Aftermath Of Polish Plane Crash

I think there is quite a bit more to this. I look forward to another translation. My amateur opinion of the weapon sound if that of a 9mm. I just watched a show last night about the luger and this sound is almost exactly what that sounded like. They shot other weapons that sounded different. I am most likely off base with that, but that is my first thought. This is the reason I like ATS so much.

Originally posted by network dude
I think there is quite a bit more to this. I look forward to another translation. My amateur opinion of the weapon sound if that of a 9mm. I just watched a show last night about the luger and this sound is almost exactly what that sounded like. They shot other weapons that sounded different. I am most likely off base with that, but that is my first thought. This is the reason I like ATS so much.

It will be pretty much impossible to exactly tell what weapon what shot off because we do not see where it happened. If we could see how far away the shot was, and sort of re-create the conditions we'd be able to get an idea of what size the weapon was. It definitely sounded like a handgun though, and a 9mm would seem to fit the bill if I had to take a guess as well. But like I said I'm not ready to rule out anything yet, not until some more analysis is done regarding the video.

Is anyone here able to help us out and pick apart this footage?

Has anyone even verified that this is the same crash site, and not some other one? It doesn't look quite like the footage that was released by news agencies. Also, has anyone used google earth to even see if there is a rail line near the site?

Reply to post by suicydking

Could u do that 4 us? I'm not near a computer rite now but those are good questions too


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Hello
I have been browsing ATS forums for some time now and finally decided to register. Being Polish this issue is of particular interest and importance to me.

Something about the crash does not add up.
In my opinion the possibility of Russian police/army shooting survivors are low. The relations between the two countries have been deteriorating since early 90s. A tragedy like this makes Russia the prime suspect for many people. If Russia was to execute survivors the Polish-Russian commission in Moscow, working to identify the bodies, would notice the bullet wounds and would have to explain them somehow. Families of the victims are present during the identification procedures which reduces the chances of foul play on behalf of the commission.

The more likely theory for gunshots [if that's what they indeed are] is the responders 'silencing' the witnesses who saw something that no one was supposed to see. If that was the case however, how did the film maker get out of the area alive?

Something I find particularly weird is that Russia is acting a little too nice. Right away a commission was established with Prime Minister Putin being in charge of the investigation. Additionally Russia finally owned up to the Katyn Forest massacre, which they have been sternly denying for 70 years. I don't know but based on Russia demeanor toward outsiders conducting official business within its borders, it seems they are almost too eager to cooperate.

We have to remember that this is a plane crash site, so all kinds of unusual noises are to be expected. As of right now there is no strong evidence that there was a third party involvement in the crash. Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by suicydking


Yes that is the same site. It has been shown on the polish news almost constantly since the crash.

My question is one that has been brought up a few times already by some others. The question in my opinion nearly completely rules out the killing of people.

Why if anyone is being killed is the person filming allowed to leave when he is seen by others in the film?


In my opinion there were a few rounds in the hand guns of the security on the plane. A few of those rounds have heated up and were fired while in the weapon due to that heat. The reason there are not more rounds going off is that not all rounds are the same. No matter if each round is loaded and formed on the same machine each round is its own separate entity. Each round will respond slightly differently to surrounding stimuli. It is also possible that weapons might not have been fully loaded as well.

I do not know nor claim to know the procedures of the Polish security or their view of a loaded weapon ready for use. Nor do I know how often they clean the weapon or replenish spent ammunition used in target practice. Purely speculation but it might be that they view any ammunition as enough to take care of their needs or expected needs at that time.

Seeing that we do not have more evidence I see no reason to jump on the assumption that the Russians or anyone was offing people to keep them quiet. If that was the case it is very likely we would never have seen this video. The best evidence would be the autopsies of the bodies, until that time there is nothing more than speculation.

Raist

Originally posted by suicydking
Has anyone even verified that this is the same crash site, and not some other one? It doesn't look quite like the footage that was released by news agencies.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/51267214273a.jpg[/atsimg]

FWIW, Frame grabs from CNN and this. I'm no expert, but many similarities.

No way to know if that was something on the plane (possibly ammo held by security) going off in the fire, as others have said, or if maybe they were local first responders (police, army, what have you), trying to scare off rubberneckers from the scene, not for any sinister purpose, but to secure the location for emergency and forensics crews to do their work when they go there.

This was a plane carrying a Head of State, which means that they would be if anything even more itchy to keep the area secured for...whatever reason, because in a situation like that there's a billion and one unknowns.

If the Prime Minister of Canada's plane crashed in the middle of Nebraska, you can bet the local and Federal authorities would be securing that site, possibly even with threats of deadly force, in order to make sure everything was handled as best as possible.

Of course, it could also be people putting bullets into peoples' skulls...unlikely, IMO, but when it comes to geo-politics, nothing is impossible.

A plane crashed in the woods.....have you ever heard wood crackling in a fire? Now a imagine a portion of forest that's been slammed with a commercial airliner...yeah, I'm sure you'd hear crackling.

Originally posted by suicydking
Also, has anyone used google earth to even see if there is a rail line near the site?

No, But this was posted in other on going thread. (Sat Photo)

Originally posted by STolarZ

Hat tip to: STolarZ

[edit on 15-4-2010 by kinda kurious]

It's definitely the crash site in the video, if you don't believe me just check out the Polish news sites they have been showing this video (well I know at least they have been on the news on TV so forgive me if I'm wrong about online). I stated this before, which I find odd, the Polish news is showing the video in the OP but they are supposedly removing the audio - now obviously there is a guy cursing so I can understand that, but they also are removing the sounds of the gunshots. So all these people are seeing what they think is just some random footage, however it's not. It's footage that has a lot more too offer than what meets the eye - the audio is crucial if you're going to watch it.

And as I've already stated, it's definitely not going to be rounds going off from the heat, the impact would have more than likely taken care of anything like that, and the sound of it exploding is different than the controlled explosion that occurs in a gun. I've heard a gunshot many times, shot many guns myself, in the woods, like I said also. These are definitely gunshots I'm telling ya. I'm not the only one confirming the sound is definitely gunshots... we can keep debating on it, but how about you guys have an open mind about this...

IF they are gunshots (common just play along!) WHY are we hearing them?

A) killing off survivors, which, by the way, they could get away with easily all they have to do is burn the body in which they've shot say it got burned in the fire so you can't notice the bullet wound - and the investigation is going on in Russia, so after it's done, the bodies will be tagged and bagged and sent to be buried in Poland.

B) people witnessed something they shouldn't have, and were murdered

C) Possibly warning shots, although the sound of the shots seem to reverberate throughout the woods as if shot straight forward, but I can't confirm that completely I am going solely on my personal experiences which is good enough for me, but I know skeptics here wont be good with just that

reply to post by kinda kurious


I don't see a rail line in that image. I know it could be off-frame, just making an observation.

Any 'official' shots of the scene that show the very easy to spot piece of fuselage with the wheels on top? That's the one thing that stood out in this video that I haven't seen in any of the official ones.

reply to post by highlyoriginal


Shots fired from overheated rounds in a weapon will sound the same as a round fired from a weapon under normal circumstances.

Just outright denying the plausibility of heat stimulated rounds going off makes it seem as if the security did not travel with loaded weapons. It is highly likely that they travel with a round in the chamber. The number of shots could likely be the number of weapons each with a round in the chamber going off due to the heat of the crash.

As for the impact causing them to go off it depends on the weapon at hand. Some can take a great deal of abuse with a round in the chamber and not cause accidental discharge. Heating up the weapon though with a round in the chamber can cause them to misfire.

In my opinion it is still likely rounds heated up and discharging due to the fire of the plane. Saying that though does not mean they were loose rounds but rounds sitting in the chamber.



Edit to add: If the shots were anything other than accidental why is the guy filming allowed to leave with evidence?

Raist


[edit on 4/15/10 by Raist]

Agreed with the theory of ammo going off due to the fire. My first thought however was that a police officer was on site giving off warning shots, telling everyone to get away.

Nothing really to see here. Nor unusual. But thanks for the footage.

Originally posted by GW8UK
Am i wrong or are there people telling the cameraman to get lost?

Maybe something sinister had happened.

Yes, a plane crashed.

reply to post by highlyoriginal

Where is the FOG that supposedly was the cause of the crash in the first place? Everything in the footage seems to be smoke, but I may be mistaken however I watched this video over and over and everything seems clear pretty much other than the areas effected by the smoke.

Fog is at the top of the trees; it is very overcast except toward the ground. Also, did you hear the ?cops? warn the viewers to keep away? No one seems to be listening so they begin to shoot off a round to warn off onlookers.

? Because afraid of looting?

? Afraid of crash scene being contaminated?

Sounds like what our cops would do at a crash scene...don't see anything outlandish except how that plane landed.

Here's a conspiracy idea: what if the passengers were all dead BEFORE the crash? Remember Ron Brown? Rumors were that he was dead of a bullet to the head before he crashed.

And why would all these officials travel together at the same time? Others keep asking this same question.

Originally posted by suicydking
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

Any 'official' shots of the scene that show the very easy to spot piece of fuselage with the wheels on top? That's the one thing that stood out in this video that I haven't seen in any of the official ones.

Source

**** Also note 'dramatic' revelation in Headline!***

I accept tips, but a star will do.


[edit on 15-4-2010 by kinda kurious]

Sorry, I have to agree those sound like gunshots (through a barrel at that) in the woods. If you've heard the sound enough, you get to know it. Same decibels, same "boom crack" (he sounded under 400 yards away), but the video mic isn't dependable.

Animals? They wouldn't come for days and only maybe at night. A plane crashing and fire would have them cautious for at least a mile in diameter.

I hope a final translation of the video would be made soon.

Possibilities are that maybe 'forces' got there sooner then those first on scene and didn't want them trampling in the perimeter. But shooting guns before warning them verbally seems a little rough.

One guy on Youtube said he saw a hand 'waiving' from a survivor at around 50 secs in the video, I didn't see any.

I would think that someone getting to the wreckage really fast to kill of survivors seems a little overkill, considering that the accident itself seems 'plausible'. But there ARE what seem to be gunshots there, so the question is WHY.

Interesting video, thanks,

After 22 years in the Army, I would say those cracks are most definitely pistol shots - 9mm or smaller. I also heard laughing at 1:20 into the video.



[edit on 15-4-2010 by Adamus]