Welfare as a portion of income over time

This is a graph of "government social benefits to persons" as a portion of (pre tax) income over time.



The source

This has been going on for a very long time! The data only goes back as far as 1947, but we know that the number was ZERO during colonial times. If the graph ever reaches 1, then the US will be a communist nation.

Is this the natural result of a democratic republic? Or is it a long lived conspiracy to destroy the United States from within???

[edit on 15-4-2010 by scwizard]

Originally posted by scwizard
This has been going on for a very long time! The data only goes back as far as 1947, but we know that the number was ZERO during colonial times. If the graph ever reaches 1, then the US will be a communist nation.

Actually, if you select 'all years' from the .gov website it'll take you as far back as 1929. A lot of this money came from the New Deal from 1933.

You have to understand that socialism was pretty popular during the 1920's...Communist Russians had just overthrown their tyrant monarchy about a decade ago and Europe was quickly, and democratically, adopting socialist laws favoring people over aristocrats.

After the Great Depression, socialism seemed the saviour of the unemployed and poor. Obviously, however, everything took a turn for the worse with the rise of totalitarianism in Germany, Italy and Russia during the 30's and 40's.

After World War 2 and the start of the Cold War, a lot of Americans started to fear Communism and socialism while Europeans accepted the best ideas and rejected the worst.

Here's the yearly graph from 1929:


I don't understand what you're saying. 1943 was when this number exploded and never looked back.

My question is, why is the US on a long term path that so many Americans disagree with???

Originally posted by scwizard
My question is, why is the US on a long term path that so many Americans disagree with???

You can't enslave people through low taxes and the ability to earn wealth without relying on the government. This reminds me of a game I played years ago called Deus Ex. Quotes from game - numbers are not accurate as it is set in the future but this is where we are heading.

"in 1900, 90 percent of Americans were self-employed; now it’s about two percent."

"It’s called consolidation. Strengthen governments and corporations, weaken individuals. With taxes, this can be done imperceptibly over time."

Why don't you post a graph representing the growth of "Corporate Welfare" over the same period of time. I'm sure that you will find that it too was nonexistent in the not to distant past.

It's my understanding that for every dollar spent on social welfare, three are spent on corporate welfare while corporations report new record profits year after year.

Just curious, what kind of profits are the poor reporting? Exxon Mobile paid no U.S. income taxes last year while they paid 15 billion in foreign income taxes. So, remind me again, who's looking out for America?

But if you look at taxes as a portion of income, it's been flat...


Flatfish: If you find the data, I will graph it.

[edit on 15-4-2010 by scwizard]

Originally posted by scwizard
My question is, why is the US on a long term path that so many Americans disagree with???

I believe there's still a number of Americans that do agree with social welfare.

Originally posted by 4ortunate1
You can't enslave people through low taxes and the ability to earn wealth without relying on the government. This reminds me of a game I played years ago called Deus Ex. Quotes from game - numbers are not accurate as it is set in the future but this is where we are heading.

"in 1900, 90 percent of Americans were self-employed; now it’s about two percent."

"It’s called consolidation. Strengthen governments and corporations, weaken individuals. With taxes, this can be done imperceptibly over time."

The only enslavement I recognize is that of corporations to the people. That said, while quoting a video game may not be the best offer of evidence it's a start...I guess...

The rise of the corporation and furthering the industrial age into the 20th century brought more and more people to the cities and off of farms. So you see a continuing decline in the agrarian culture of the 19th century and the rise of major corporations like Ford moters and Shell gasoline.

I wouldn't blame the government for this shift by any means, this happened worldwide, society changed along with varying technological advances.

What's the bright line though? Statistically what percentage of income do you believe should be welfare? Surely not 100%, because if the the government is paying 100% of everyone's salary, then the government has total control over everyone's well being.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by scwizard]

reply to post by scwizard


There should be an established seperation between salary and welfare. Military members have everything provided to them plus pay, is that welfare or salary? I think you're looking for the word 'income'.

Optimally 0% of income would be welfare. However the economic stratification provided by our capitalist/corporatist society doesn't allow the poorest to move far up the ladder while protecting the richest from falling too far. As someone somewhere in the middle I'd like to see the richest knocked down a few steps while the poorest are brought up some. Redistribution of wealth.