Illegal Immigration is not the problem.

reply to post by ponyboyats



I whole heartedly agree, but the problem is that until humanity collectively decides to pull their metaphorical heads out of their metaphorical arse, this dysfunctional, cyclical pattern of crap government makes crap laws to reap crap revenue will continue. I'm not much the idealist anymore, more the pragmatist - and the pragmatist in me states in no uncertain terms that as things stand right now, not tomorrow, not next year but now, illegal immigration is a very real, quanitfiable problem - and the cartel's blatant disregard for the citizens of the Southwest is but one more example of that. In dealing with that one corner of this mess, I would add that making drugs legal wouldn't solve the problem even if anyone were inclined to do so. You can legalize them and tax the hell out of them, but the cartels would always find a way - they need those drugs to be illegal, otherwise they'd move on to something else that was. Organizations that big don't get to their station in life without the ability to adapt to changing markets. You'd simply be trading one international black market item for another.

Until the day comes when drugs are legal and we can devote resources to fighting whatever else the cartels peddle, the fact is this situation needs a realistic approach - and dealing with illegal immigration at its source is about as realistic as it gets. I'm not simply talking about beefing up border security and making the ingress to our country less porous, but devoting more resources to the INS, speeding up the process of helping people becoming legalized citizens and addressing the root causes of this neverending mass exodus from Mexico in a three-pronged approach.

The situation needs a bucket of cold reality thrown on it - and I'm afraid that it's going to take the complete bankrupting of this country or Americans on CNN half-buried in the Arizona desert for that to happen.

Reply to post by Legion2112

Well what next item would they have to move on to? Isn't it new zealand that legalized all drugs and now have the lowest crime rate? I think if u legalize drugs the cartels will have nothing nearly as desirable to fall back on. They could all just chill and smoke some nearly free cheap ass dope. Then they wouldn't need to kill people to insure their drugs get sold. And then I'm talking about THE PROBLEM and illegal immigration is not it. I know a lot of illegal aliens and theyr nice people religious etc and most of them had no choice but to come here


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by Legion2112

See the system is set up for them to come here and provide cheap labor. I wouldn't b surprised if cia has a hand in supporting the cartels drug trade in order to make mexico a dangerous place where noone wants to go and start a legitimate business because they'd have to pay protection moneyu to gangs like it is in russia w any busines in moscow. Then people would have no jobs and be so broke dey have no choice but to cross the border while risking theirs and their childrens lives. Think about it a mexican mother crossin the border w her 2 year old daughter/son. Do u think she's riskin her babys life out of necesity or just cuz she wants to be a bad ass criminal and take ur job? And they come here where noone will work for 5 dolars an hour but da mexicans. I know first hand. They get paid 10 dolars a day in mexico for hard labor! Cmon what would u do?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

ARE U SERIOUS? The thread about 25000 dolar bounty was on da front page all day u love to talk about that but when I try to talk about somethinh 100 times more important noone cares? Stars and flags ats stars and flags. We gona have to chane the slogan to "embrace ignorance" cuz ats is becoming msm u noticed how topics we discused on ats years ago are now all over msm?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

This is exactly the reason I've always been a lurker. Cuz here on ats people are all about sensationalizm. Sometimes the most interesting info is in those threads that get buried. Noone wants to talk about stuff that matters unless its sensational crap. Almost makes me wanna say things that will get me banned.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Seriously man, I don't think anyone's disregarding this thread because they don't want to debate something of importance... just think your idealism isn't being that well recieved. There are a lot of cynics on ATS who, like me, are much too pragmatic to debate anything but cold, hard facts. Sadly, that's to say that as much as you and I would like for the citizens of this country to disregard what they see as frivolous legislation and come together as a species rather than citizens of a country with defined borders, it's not going to happen anytime soon...

Reply to post by Legion2112

U know its ppl like u dat give me faith because I can see the good in u otherwise u would not reply. U used 2 think like me but the harsh reality of this life has made u a cynic. Its ok. Let's just bury this thread but give it respect. It died for a good cause.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by ponyboyats


It is a huge problem. You can organize koombayha rallys all you want and try to lay the racism, heartless nonsense on those of us who think that illegal immigration is an issue. Here why it is a problem:

- American's built this country. It is ours, for the citizens of this country. It is not something that can simply be taken by someone else, regardless of the conditions of what ever hell hole they currently live in.

- Americans have died to protect a way of life. That way of life is uniquely American. Americans did not die to protect some international welfare-state.

- Illegal immigrants steal. Every drop of water they drink from a public utility is theft. Every class they attend in a public school is theft, every mile they drive on public funded roads is theft, everything they do while here illegally is theft, plain and simple. When they go to the bathroom and the waste water is treated by a public utility, it is theft.

If you are that concerned about your "fellow man" and the lot of life of the poor, how about this - go to the hardware store and get 100 copies of your house and car keys. Put them on key chains with your address and liscence plate number on it and then go to the homeless shelters, parks, neighborhoods where illegals live in your town and hand them out.

What will happen to your house and car is exactly what is happening to this country. The only difference is that it will take a while before the country is unsafe and undesirable to live in while it will take about 18 hours for your house to be a disaster.

Reply to post by dolphinfan

*clap**clap**clap**clap**clap* what a good demo of what I'm talking about. U r not willing to share a drop of water from ur toilet? Wow that's exactly why where we are today. I bet ur one of those ppl that never throw a dolar to a homeless. U prob would never give a person at a gas station a dolar if they ran outa gas. Thank u for demonstrating what is wrong w our society. NOW the ppl that conquer this continent they STOLE from native americans. They came here against the natives will the natives died. Almost all of them died to protect their country and u gon argue? How does it feel on the other end of the rope brother?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by dolphinfan

I mean america built the country? Who do u think was doing the actual "building"? Do u know where america gets its money? They go all over the world spread their interests revolutions and take over assets. U can't tell me nothing my great granfather died in ww2 in russia defending against germany and we woop dey butt while millions of russians died for what? So america can wait out till last man standin unload in normandy and help split da loot? Oh yea read da history books of usa dey heroes in dem books but the cold hard fact 4 u here is they came in les then a year b4 da war ended after hitler was defeated in russia.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

The days of thinking of ours, or any other nation, exists on their own rights has passed. International corporations have linked nations far more than any political alliances ever could. Once nations have aligned themselves behind the international conglomerates, the voters have little control over their nation's policies.

reply to post by ponyboyats


First, there is no such thing as a "Native American". Man first showed up in Africa, hence we are all African from that perspective. I guess they were only considered natives when the bad white man landed his boat on the shores. When did they become native? They merely got here sooner, walking rather than on ships. Now you can argue that we forced them off their land. OK, that is a thing called war and it has been going on since the first tribe of cavemen split into two tribes and wanted to hunt the same meadow.

Yes, I am one of the folks who does not give a bum a buck when I see them so that they can go buy a 40 ounce bottle of malt liquor. I'm also one of the folks who won't give someone money for "bus fare". I do, however give roughly 15% of my take home income to charity, a number of which would be higher were it not for the taxes I am being hit with to supply illegal immigrants with services they are stealing.

What is fascinating about you folks is that it is only the US that is the issue. Do a bit of research about what goes on on the southern border of Mexico. You will find that the Mexican Army is stationed on their southern border to keep the Central Americans out of Mexico. As far as Mexico goes, its cool for folks to flow to their north, but it certainly is not cool for someone to flow north into their country.

Reply to post by Truth1000

True true but politicians are corporations clowns they put on the show 4 da people theyr crooked. They part of da system this is what I'm talkin about. Which goes along w what u said


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by dolphinfan

Ok first I don't think the native americans or indians killed millions of human beings to get this land. Second u r stereotypin against human beings who r just like u when u say "they can just go get a 40 oz botle of malt liquor" I know a lot of illegals who are way beter then that and I'd trust them w my life b4 I'd ever trust a white american. Or black for that mater


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by ponyboyats

And that is not to. Stereotype a white american. I just see the brainwashing americans receive from birth via tv etc. I mean cmon I was a failin student in rusia I camme to america in 8th grade knew no english and by the time I graduated I had 4.0 gpa.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by ponyboyats

Ok I let this issue go. RIP


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by ponyboyats

And that is not to. Stereotype a white american. I just see the brainwashing americans receive from birth via tv etc. I mean cmon I was a failin student in rusia I camme to america in 8th grade knew no english and by the time I graduated I had 4.0 gpa.

You have no idea how happy i am that i aint the only one that sees it like this.
However, its not just a US problem, its a global problem.
The governments are decieptfuly using us in all ways then hype up the racism etc.
Heres a question for everyone
Do you as a person feel like youre missing something regarding religion and racism? Because i am.
I think that it is a carefully calculated plan to keep up the charade. I couldnt care less about colour and religious views. Everything we know has been drummed into us from a young age.
TV, video, books etc etc best part is we all havent even realised yet.
We are a species, we are the same. Governments worldwide will continue until stopped.
Herea a prime example talk about double standards from the government, When it suits when it doesnt?
www.dailymail.co.uk...

[edit on 15-4-2010 by jazz10]

reply to post by jazz10


thanks, that's exactly what im talking about. we're brainwashed globally to believe certain things, the education system is rigged, history books are rewritten. why are we allowing this to happen?

reply to post by ponyboyats


I know exactly where youre coming from with everything you are saying, the problem is not being able to see it for looking at it, if that makes sense?
Sometimes people either choose not to see or just cant.

Everything going on now is related to something very big but TPTB are doing a very good job at hiding it or should i say tweeking what we all see and believe to suit them.
News headlines for example not a mention of even half of the earthquakes etc yet plenty regarding the money situation.
Its bordering on crazy. A seperate life within the realms of ATS and a completely different perspective off ATS. Drives me crazy.

reply to post by jazz10


yea i guess in a way im preaching to the choir here on the ats. but there are lots of people that would find this an interesting discussion, if only they cared to read the thread. but its not sensational so no hope for that. thank you for you input though.