G. Edward Griffin Goes On Record in Video About Chemtrails Conspiracy

wow! these chem-trail debunkers are so obvious..or else its just people letting their egos take over, unable to admit they may be wrong and that they are being sprayed. C'mon now, they're freakin chem-trails for crying out loud.

[edit on 15-4-2010 by wash222]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by phukme
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Your "drumset" is laughable. It does suck.

Anyways, mine eyes have seen these planes turn them smokescreens off and on sans ANY clouds on a clear beautiful hot day in sunny southern california. I suppose you're going to dismiss skywriting as natural phenomenon too. If I were you I'd just as soon duck outta here and take your butt buddy "hunkahunka" with u too. Ohhh, and traddrum.... ur drums suck.

So basically if all you can resort to is insults...

I win.

Thanks for letting everyone see it too.

Oh I didn't know this was a contest, I thought this was a conspiracy forum. Silly me. Sarcastic golf clap for the winner.

On the subject, I do know they have sprayed clouds in the past to affect the weather. So it isn't much of a stretch to do something more if they wanted.
We are basically under a constant attack by the globalist, through our food, water, drugs, brainwashing from TV media and movies, false flag and financial terrorism, on and on it goes. So spraying crap in the air to mess with our health or whatever reasons wouldn't surprise me a bit.

reply to post by burntheships

The point of that video is that contrails do not persist and spread and that is how you can tell the difference between contrails and "chemtrails". That video is wrong. Contrails do persist and contrails do spread and they have been doing it ever since aircraft have been flying high enough to produce them. The videos I posted demonstrate that. The article I posted (do you want more) demonstrates that.

That is the science of it. Just because people are ignorant of the science or deny it, does not make it false.

[edit on 4/15/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
How do you tell the difference? Easy. The fire fighters drop their load pretty much all at once. That forth image is of an actual aerial cloud seeding. Notice that the plane is relatively low, no more than 3 or 4 thousand feet above the ground. Notice that the plane is flying right at cloudbase. Notice that the clouds are cumulus clouds. Notice there is no thick trail coming from the seeding flares.

So would you automatically assume anything flying at that altitude and not dropping their load all at once were cloud seeding? And if no rain occurred, that it was a failed attempt at seeding?

I have to ask. What good does your "vigilance" do if all it is, is speculation?

Everything has to start somewhere. All criminal investigations begin with nothing but suspicion; they don't start with the evidence already all in line. That is why vigilance is important. If you're from the US (maybe you aren't) you should already know the value of public vigilance to various authorities.

Not every citizen is responsible for launching investigations, but every citizen should be responsible for watching who is doing what, especially when it comes to dumping things in the air that we all breathe. All I'm doing is asking questions and seeing what responses I get, and there is absolutely nothing that is illogical about that.

Could contrails include some mystery substance? Yes. But logically it makes little sense.

To who? You?

What about a "terrorist" who wants to spread a biological agent through the air over a heavily populated area? Then suddenly the idea makes a little bit more sense. There are endless ways regularly dumping things into the air can be abused. That's why it is a sensitive topic as it should be. It's really almost like it pains you people for anyone to just put the thought into your head.

reply to post by bsbray11

If I saw an aircraft flying at 3,000 feet, under and through a cloud, with bright flares on its wings, yes I would probably assume it was cloud seeding. Because I would have very good reason to believe so. Yes, if it didn't rain I would believe it was a failed attempt. Again, because cloud seeding is very often ineffective.

Asking questions is fine but denying that normal contrails persist and spread and that contrails that do are "chemtrails" is embracing ignorance. It is denying the facts.

You assume I haven't considered the possibility. I have and that is why I find it illogical, I've thought about it. Contrails form more than five miles above the surface of the Earth. The wind direction and speed changes many times in that distance. There is no way to predict where anything applied at that altitude will end up. It could go half way around the world before it reaches the surface. It doesn't make any sense. But if it did, where are the masses of people dropping dead? If a terrorist wanted to poison masses of people there are easier, cheaper, and much more efficient, and effective ways of doing so.


[edit on 4/15/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
Asking questions is fine but denying that normal contrails persist and spread and that contrails that do are "chemtrails" is embracing ignorance. It is denying the facts.

I'm not denying anything. Have I denied any of what you just said? No, absolutely not. I just refuse to be as comfortably numb as you are towards what human beings are dumping into the air to accomplish god-knows-what. There is nothing illogical about that, either. Chalk it up to a difference of concerns or opinions if you want man, it doesn't make a damned bit of difference to me.

The reason the US government doesn't openly manipulate its own weather like China does? It's controversial. That's also why Congress has repeatedly turned down offers to fund the military doing it openly.

[edit on 15-4-2010 by bsbray11]

reply to post by burntheships


Awesome OP - nice work.. One can always tell when they are on to something.. by gauging the level of all out blatant slander thrown at them. The more slander and emotional attacks directed towards the idea, the question then becomes Why?

Lets review quickly just the first page:

Posted by 4nsicphd:
And this is from the quack who still promotes laetrile as a cancer cure. Where did he get his doctorate in chemistry? Or qualitative analysis? He should have stuck to writing speeches for the John Birch society. -- what about his other works?

Posted By traditionaldrummer
I suppose that instead of educating himself it's just easier to assume a global evil conspiracy, then admit this stupidity on camera. My god, where do these nitwits come from?

Posted by Bagari
Why would an 'evil agent' want their chemtrail to remain as a trail in the sky for hours? Wouldn't they want it to be diispersed rather quickly over a wide area? I'm hoping you'll know since you've lived on a miltary base for a short time and you know these kinds of things. - Is that suppose to be critical thinking?

Posted by Traditionaldrummer
Sorry, but insulting my drum set and calling me a government troll isn't going to undo the fact that the moron in the videoffered no evidence and qualified his statements by claiming to have seen jets all his life. He's an idiot and apparently so are you for that post I quoted. - Forgive me, but did you not just a few posts earlier just slander a whole group of people as nitwits? And now you are on attack mode because you got pushed back? -- Am very entertained by your one sided emotional responses, I see my neighbor also excited by the same emotional masturbation shown daily on TV. Are you sure you are spending your time in the right areas?

Posted by Traditionaldrummer
And finally, I came here for a variety of reasons but I enjoy trying to help people from falling for nonsense whenever possible. "Chemtrails" are nonsense, so here I am. -- What sort of statement is this? Your here to help but you come out of the gates name calling, and expect not to be treated the same?? How exactly do you define "help"...?

Posted by Phage
Yeah, what good is a brain anyway? -- Oh yes, here comes the biggie.. with a huge picture too - Classic and really good for emotional responses. I fail to see how your post adds anything to this discussion except for an added emotional masturbation moment. Are you here to help as well?

Posted by Phage
The lack of science in the video is nothing new. The lack of logic is nothing new. The lack of evidence is nothing new. The leaping to conclusions is nothing new. The video brings nothing new to the table. -- Ahh, thank you for that, after you have added your emotional moment, you have now added nothing new - Actually you added an opinion after you insulted a bunch of people and then requested they go look up your "take".. If only I had nothing else to do then research Phage's "Take".. I've not seen any reason to even give you a second thought - much less take time to research ATS about your "Take".. Thanks for helping though...

Posted by traditionaldrummer
So basically if all you can resort to is insults...

I win.

Thanks for letting everyone see it too.

Yup - I see it really clear.. I can see who came into this thread with insults, who emotionally masturbated all over the forum and is now crying because they where treated the same.

All of this is can be found on just page one.. And for that, all of you emotional masturbation experts, I thank you.. You leave a trail that can be easily viewed by those smart enough to look for patterns..

The patterns of 5 years ago vs now have greatly intensified, I can only assume things must be becoming more desperate at some level...

Don't bother with further helping, am doing just fine, Thank You.

I see someone is working hard to cover up stuff..


Part 2

A.C.Griffith on The Power Hour.


This is Cliffard Carnicom and he have been working on the Chemtrail issue for many many Years....(Not contrails.)

reply to post by bsbray11

Back to cloud seeding? As a matter of fact, State governments do engage in weather modification through contracts with private enterprises. The FAA has also engaged the services of cloud seeders to investigate clearing fog at airports.

The military is not allowed to engage in weather modification primarily because of ENMOD.

Originally posted by Phage
Back to cloud seeding?

They could be dumping ANYTHING in the air. That was my entire point in my last post.

You already said you just assume what they're doing is legit and don't see any reason at all to ever question them. I got the point. Congratulations, you are a very trusting person. I wish I had that much faith.

reply to post by bsbray11

No.
It's not a matter of "trusting" them. I haven't trusted the government since before the draft ended.

You assume they are "dumping" stuff into the air because they can. I see no reason to assume they are because it makes no sense. The patents prove nothing. There are thousands of patents for things that don't work. The proposals mean nothing because science that the proposals demand has not been done. I see no reason to think that "chemtrails" are any different than contrails.

Like Stevie Wonder said, "When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer." And you might end up like this:



[edit on 4/15/2010 by Phage]

Oh come on now, there are plenty of reasons the gubberment would spray particulate matter into the air.

Are we talking about covert ops? Black projects?
Secret Government programs? National Defense?
Why, by golly gee, and never ever would they do anything to harm a hair on our precious heads!?

Here is a 45 minute documentary on that:

Google Video Link

[edit on 15-4-2010 by burntheships]

Originally posted by Phage
No.
It's not a matter of "trusting" them. I haven't trusted the government since before the draft ended.

You assume they are "dumping" stuff into the air because they can. I see no reason to assume they are because it makes no sense.

It makes no sense to you. And what do you have to do with dumping anything into the air anyway? Nothing. So I don't care if it "makes no sense" to you, that does nothing to preclude the possibility. Now will you attack me for considering possibilities that you don't, while simultaneously telling me you don't trust the government?

I gave you an example a few posts back. A "terrorist" could use it as a means to poison people. You could do a million things with the technology. There are boundless possibilities. I am open to any of them until I have reason to specifically doubt them.

This is really very simple and there is nothing here for you to "debunk" anyway so I'm not sure why you keep posting here again. What are you trying to prove?

reply to post by bsbray11

What am I trying to prove? Easy enough to turn that question around on you but to answer it; I'm not trying to prove anything.

I realize I can't prove something isn't happening (can't prove a negative). But you and the other "chemtrail" believers are unable to prove that something is happening.

I'm trying to provide some balance. I'm providing the information that a lot of people miss that it is perfectly normal for contrails to persist and spread, in spite of what people like Carnicom say. I'm trying to get people to apply some reason so they don't end up like the crazy rainbow lady, believing that everything is being done.



[edit on 4/15/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by Phage
What am I trying to prove? Easy enough to turn that question around on you but to answer it; I'm not trying to prove anything.

Well neither am I if you are reading my posts, so why do you keep responding to me like you are nit-picking my posts? A bad habit of yours?

I realize I can't prove something isn't happening (can't prove a negative). But you and the other "chemtrail" believers are unable to prove that something is happening.

I don't have to prove anything to you in the first place, so if that's the foot you stepped off on the you were wrong to begin with. But the way I see it since neither of us are trying to argue definite claims anyway, you really have no need to keep responding and nit-picking me like you are "debunking" something.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by bsbray11

 

No.
It's not a matter of "trusting" them. I haven't trusted the government since before the draft ended.

You assume they are "dumping" stuff into the air because they can. I see no reason to assume they are because it makes no sense. The patents prove nothing. There are thousands of patents for things that don't work. The proposals mean nothing because science that the proposals demand has not been done. I see no reason to think that "chemtrails" are any different than contrails.

[edit on 4/15/2010 by Phage]

An old man once told me, things are never what you as an individual could possibly expect.

A little birdie once told me - if you dump a conductive material into a suspension you can send waves of different frequencies through it - Thus you can then be provided with returns like what radar gives, sonar gives, and various other "non visible frequency" wave abilities and the benefits they provide.

All this trivial stuff about where, who, what - Logical this Logical that - It was said above and applies all over - Logical to whom? - Extended out as if it is Logical to me, who am I to assume or even attempt to impede someone else's logic, never mind the fact name calling is being used as weapon of choice */Chuckle.

Logic is based on what? Experiences right? I know people who have been hit by lighting - I also know for a fact their logic on how getting hit by lighting can happen vs mine are greatly different...

Why just spray a small area - Altitude would give max spread out, refine the material to stay "suspended" and what ever height for maximum duration and suddenly you have a high altitude.... what - anyone guess? Shield? Radar? Defenses? *shrug* hell of I know.. Bigger is better right? Specially if we are looking at stuff entering into the atmosphere from space? Besides, who the hell bothers with doing things small these days... Your Conclusions are all fubar logic to me... *shrug again*

But when I go back to looking for patterns, and also consider the other places blatant emotional slander is off the charts, some very clear pictures about what might really be happening stand out like beacons on the horizon.

Am not asking you to Trust my Logic, hell, I don't even care - But anyone who does, can easily dig deeper in the above generic statements for the scientific fact placed not far below.

Am not here to help, am just here to view the show - Carry on and thanks for the entertainment.

Anyone Hungry?

reply to post by Lunchman


Yeah, I am! Nice!

~~~~

Black Projects? A reason the gubberment would spray and deny?

VTRPE (variable terrain radio parabolic equation) computer model. It is designed to provide the reader with a summary of the physics and numerical methods used in the VTRPE model, along with detailed instructions on the model's use and operation. The VTRPE computer program is a range-dependent, tropospheric microwave propagation model that is based upon the split-step Fourier parabolic wave equation algorithm. The nominal applicable frequency range of the model is VHF to K-band. The VTRPE program is able to make predictions for microwave propagation over both land and water. The VTRPE code is a full-wave propagation model that solves the electromagnetic wave equations for the complex electric and magnetic radiation fields. The model accounts for the effects of nonuniform atmospheric refractivity fields, variable surface terrain, and varying surface dielectric properties on microwave propagation. The code is written in ANSI-77 FORTRAN with MILSPEC-1753 FORTRAN language extensions

www.abstractstorm.com...

So what would VTRPE have to do with aerosols?

This computer radio frequency propagation program deals with radio waves and enables the RFMP system to visually see the terrain of a battlefield in three dimensions on a television-type screen.

The RFMP system also depends on a satellites to supplement the images of a battlefield picture obtained from the ground, thus producing the 3-dimensional images. In providing an interactive picture portraying in the radar screen, the RFMP system allows the computer operator to develop familiarity with the "environment" before a war mission occurs by playing a variety of "what if?" virtual warfare scenarios on his computer screen. Since all major modes of radio frequency propagation are modeled in his computer (the RFMP system), special, sometimes counter-intuitive, cases can be examined in detail and exploited during a battle. Initially, the VTRPE computer program only worked accurately over water and along coastal areas but not over land masses because the system's radar waves required an atmospheric condition known as "ducting," over land, to operate accurately.


This "ducting" problem was solved by releasing an aerosol, a mixture of barium salts into the atmosphere over the United States. Thus, they can make an atmospheric radio frequency "duct" with a base of barium aerosol released from aircraft.

One of the researchers, the physicist from Brookhaven, explained how the process works: The chemical and electrical characteristics of the mixture cause moisture to stay in the clouds. The aerosol sets up an electrical and chemical environmental that supports RF ducting for the RFMP/VTRPE warfare system."The mixture of barium salt from the aerosol when sprayed in a straight line will also provide a ducting path form point A to point B and will enable high frequency communications along that path, even over the curvature of the Earth, in both directions," he said. "Enemy high frequency communications can be monitored easier with the straight line A to B ducting medium."

[edit on 15-4-2010 by burntheships]

Originally posted by Phage
Using your mind means not taking everything you see in a youtube video at face value.[edit on 4/14/2010 by Phage]

Can I say this to anyone who reads anything posted by you here on ATS? If you have any issue with that then you're going against your own logic.

Originally posted by bsbray11 in a reply to Phage
What are you trying to prove?

That he's right and everyone else that disagrees with his opinion is wrong.

Here's something I've noticed about Phage that anyone can see proof of by re-reading this thread.

Visit a thread he's posted in where his posts have gathered a lot of stars. You'll notice he doesn't post much after getting more stars than the person he's trying to prove wrong. Now look through this thread. Notice that the chemtrail believers have more stars than his posts? Notice that he has been posting more and more and showed a little attitude here and there and some nitpicking?

He can't stand when people don't agree with him. Plain and simple and easy to see by visiting any thread he posts in where a lot of the posters don't agree with him.

[edit on 15-4-2010 by nightmare_david]

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by Lunchman

 

This "ducting" problem was solved by releasing an aerosol, a mixture of barium salts into the atmosphere over the United States. Thus, they can make an atmospheric radio frequency "duct" with a base of barium aerosol released from aircraft.

One of the researchers, the physicist from Brookhaven, explained how the process works: The chemical and electrical characteristics of the mixture cause moisture to stay in the clouds. The aerosol sets up an electrical and chemical environmental that supports RF ducting for the RFMP/VTRPE warfare system."The mixture of barium salt from the aerosol when sprayed in a straight line will also provide a ducting path form point A to point B and will enable high frequency communications along that path, even over the curvature of the Earth, in both directions," he said. "Enemy high frequency communications can be monitored easier with the straight line A to B ducting medium."

[edit on 15-4-2010 by burntheships]

Carry the above thoughts one step further.. am bordering on thread derailment here and apologize up front..

That said:
Consider that we may indeed live in an electrical universe.

If so..
Consider the work of Tesla.

Consider zero growth, zero evolutions, or major breakthroughs on efficient power or electricity generation/production for the last 75 plus years. Yet there is lightening all over, I still get static zaps when I touch my cat and everything seems to have a current... /boggle

Consider, if there is a grid around us, and it could be tapped for power, it could also be monitored, any places new "taps' where placed, anyone monitoring it would know.

I've seen lightening reach though clouds and head off into the very upper atmosphere/possible space (specific generic terms) Looks to me like some sort of "discharge".. get that with the cat too, but on a smaller level.. why am I seeing electricity every where I turn, yet we are digging up coal to burn to make it?

Consider again the silence regarding breakthroughs in efficient electricity generation in our key industries that can be used for control of large quantities of people, globally.

*begins to offer around some soup and bread..


[edit on 15-4-2010 by Lunchman]

Excellent find. After watching the video and thinking a moment, I realized that if we ever do find out what they have been doing, it wont be to our liking.

Thanks for the posting.