god's experienced reality

Okay, I was meditating last night upon some things and had a few thoughts: From science we know that the very presence of an observer affects the reality which they see; its called experienced reality. Now, suppose god exists...then by his very presence he is affecting us somehow. We are the "experiment" thats being observed. I'm not sure but that seems like a problem for the free-will idea...If by his very presence, the experiment (us) is changed somehow. How do we have free-will if we're changed by his very presence?
Unless of course we are his reality in the absence of experience...which makes it even more confusing because I can't comprehend that...Okay I'm rambling now but its just a bunch of stuff that popped into my thoughts. Anyone else thought about this?
This has me wondering how do we look through the eyes of god. What exactly is he observing? I know we can't know the answer to that but its interesting to think about nevertheless...

do you really want an answer?

cause i think anyone i provide will only make the original question as prosed even more confusing.


BTW


what is your question?

We are of "free will" to an extent, since we are all trapped in physical reality within the confines of a human body. That and free will is an idea concocted by a bilateral brain or human grey matter.

It's not so easy to see in shades and colors, when you expect the outcome to be either black or white.
Your perspective is limited within this dimension of space-time.



[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Regenmacher]

You are applying laws of man, to God, can't be done, it is beyond your comprehension,

Originally posted by infovacume
You are applying laws of man, to God, can't be done, it is beyond your comprehension,

I'm not applying anything to god...I am simply thinking instead of saying its beyond my comprehension...who are you to say that god gave you that thing called a brain just so he could limit what you could comprehend...
Why do religious people always act like they know the limits of our mind...Where do they obtain such knowledge?...especially after declaring that we are in fact limited in knowing.
If god didn't operate through SOME of the laws of men and the physical realm then you wouldn't even come to the conclusion that he existed...because part of you is physical...he makes sure you can comprehend it.
I am not one to say what is meant to be understood, because I don't know. However I do know that the workings of the universe are a wonderful thing; not because of their own merit but because they all point to a greater being than ourselves. I don't look at science and immediately say that's nice but god's not bound by that; I look at it and say, how could god be speaking to me through that...he is in fact everywhere and thats what the universe screams at us...
Now back to the topic, If there was a being that was limited to our space-time continuum and he could see everything at once then it would be quite interesting...because he would see it all as one big wave, it wouldn't be broken down into a "particle"...now imagine if they weren't limited to our space-time then I'm sure it would be even more magnificent...sorry, I just find that awesome
Regenmacher, thanks for your answer...that was an excellent explanation of the free-will concept...BTW, that was my question, does the presence of god in fact contradict the concept of free-will?

Originally posted by KSoze
From science we know that the very presence of an observer affects the reality which they see; its called experienced reality....If by his very presence, the experiment (us) is changed somehow. How do we have free-will if we're changed by his very presence?

I'm not sure If I grasp 100% of exactly what you are trying to say, but the general idea is interesting. I think this hits right into the matter of why we don't seem to see God directly acting in our life. Sure, sometimes when we pray for things they seem to happen like magic, but not with flashes of light and puffs of smoke. There tends to be a explanation for the event.

God could stick his head through the clouds and look around every now and then but he doesn't. Atheist love to argue that this lack of evidence is proof there is no God. You seem to have stumbled on another probability.

Let's say that God (Being an all-knowing God) is aware of the observer phenomenon and does his best to avoid direct interference. Perhaps God has a way to view us without entering this dimension. Sort of like using a hidden camera. Since we can't see proof that we are watched, we tend to act as if no one is watching. I believe you are right. If we could see evidence or witnessed some sort of act that proved without a doubt that there was a God, would our free-will have been taken away?

Still God would need to leave some kind of evidence lying around so we could find proof that he exist. This would have to be a balancing act, since like you said he need to keep clear of our free-will. Dealing with us humans is probably not an easy task. Good thing he likes us so much!

Excellent question! Best thinking I've seen in here in a while. I'd give you points for it, but I'm not the mod of this forum. *waves to mods to give points to KSoze*

I like this topic a lot!!! One thing you can put into consideration IMO is that we are not seperate from God, and that the deepest part of all of us is God, so then whenever we're being the observer in a wave collapse function, it is actually God that is observing through us. I think the best explanation to be found in this is in channeled material (stay with me on this one..). Seth, the Conversations with God books, and Elias are good sources...