Why the Universe may be a Computer afterall: Genetic Algorithms, Cellular Automata, and Rule 110

reply to post by VonDoomen
I enjoyed this thread a great deal and will probably read a little more around it. I'm picturing the Universe being like a steampunk difference engine! At heart, the idea appeals to people from many different perspectives. I'm a fan of the notion that we are all extensions of a universe trying to know itself...not saying I 'believe' that, but I just like the idea.

Reflections on Stephen Wolfram's 'A New Kind of Science' Interesting reading

SnF anyway

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Kandinsky]

first, I agree, best thread going right now!

anyway, I've heard that the edge of the expanding universe is "grainy" or not fully there yet. could this be a result of the program not having filled in all its 110's and 100's etc?

I just hope that if we are a computer program then my little part of it can never fully be erased like an email on a computer that the police can pull up after you thought you erased it

Originally posted by VonDoomen
also, to help put this in perspective of how much little information was needed to do this.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/618e62802f35.jpg[/atsimg]

this is the coding for rule 110. Unfortunately, i am unsure how this is decoded/used, which is embarrassing as I am a computer science major. Its just, Im not sure how the information is relevantly used. It is a code for some type of information, but decoding it would be useless unless we knew how it was used.

Basically if the bits above the selected cell are as in the table, the selected cell becomes as shown in the table:

For Example

with
111
xNx

N would become 0

with
011
xNx

N would become 1

with
100
xNx

N would become 0

The rule numbers are simply a result of all combinations for the 8 center cell states in the bottom of the table - 2^8 but are known as rules...



[edit on 16/4/2010 by LightFantastic]

reply to post by LightFantastic


ok thanks for helping to clear it up.

So the top row has 3 cells. and you have to match up your current selection, 3 cells wide, with the bottom row, which then tells that middle well what to become.??

Thanks for the help!

reply to post by Totalstranger


I have never read this anywhere, although i have considered it before as an idea.

Do you have a source for this info?

reply to post by Kandinsky


YES! I love that idea. I view the universe as being grid-like, albeit a very tiny grid, each connection with its own value.

and im glad you found kurzweilAI.net also check out singularity.com... this book of his is like my bible. The most interesting thing ive ever read.
"the singularity is near" - Ray kurzweil!

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by LightFantastic

 

ok thanks for helping to clear it up.

So the top row has 3 cells. and you have to match up your current selection, 3 cells wide, with the bottom row, which then tells that middle well what to become.??

Thanks for the help!

Yes I think you have got it. As a CS student it should be fairly easy for you to try yourself.

1. Create a grid
2. Fill in some parts of the grid at random
3. Step through the grid
4. At each step apply a 'Rule' and see what you get.
5. Repeat from 3

You can use just the cells above as in your example or a selection of the surrounding cells for your inputs and a truth table to select the outcome of your selected cell.

You can also try different ways of stepping through the grid such as raster, centre spiral, odds then evens etc.

reply to post by VonDoomen


I just wonder when people realise that we live in a simulation so packed with computional potensial obviously made for a purpose, and see how we and all life we know of rely on programmed algoritms and that conciousness is infact a product of our inner code and the external machine we call the Universe. AND that there is an intelligent force of lifeforms controlling and using this whole thing.

"God is a kid with an ant farm...." ~ John Constantine

reply to post by constantwonder


Sex times seven days a week equals 42.

Any geek I know would agree....

And it is even encoded in the Bible's first chapter: Genesis 1:28 ... "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it...."

Now that's hard work. So much that one would wish for there to be eight days a week, just to rest once in a while....

BTW. Great video!

[edit on 16/4/2010 by Neo Christian Mystic]

That video makes so much sense! how else would all life be able to be life, I mean arn't there people that want to be alive that are not yet. Also I knew 3 years ago that this was not the 1st real Universe. It was risen to a higher dimension, I saw the blackhole come in my mind and since then I have been trying to imagine "what would God do?" in order to try and fix it.


All because of the answer I got when asked the question "what came first the chicken or the egg?" My answer was that thought came first. That is also why I thought I knew the theory of everything but if someone knew that then apparently everyone assumes I am wrong because the implications of that would make something of a maker... but I just think I am a emersary of Main Entity. Being tricked to infinite.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


excellent quote about the ant farm! very funny!

and yes, I have to wonder what some people are thinking sometimes.

I've always held the believe that the universe act likes a giant computer. there are definately many aspect of how the universe works that remind me of a program.

I believe right now our technology has the computational capacity of around 10^14-16 bits per second. However the upper limits of the computational capacity of the known universe lies around 10^90-99 BPS. and that would require basically almost ALL of the matter in the universe to be organized in a manner that allows it to take part in computation.

You truly hit the spot, If only you knew what I had, but then it would blow you all away.

Your pretty close.

Nice thread, keep it up!

if Mandlebrot of Creation can be done on a computer, Then = Genesis is possible.

spontaneously divide Pi by Zero

Creator creating the creation that made of the creator.

It consist of "memory". From dust they came, to dust they shall be.

For it always is, always will be and never was.

reply to post by VonDoomen

Thank you for this information...
...you may also find the following of interest.

Perry Marshall wrote the textbook on TCP/IP and ASCII...
...and has been running a debate on information theory and DNA...
...and has shown that DNA is not a code but a media or alphabet/language...
...that simply supports the transcription of coded information...
...much as html and the English alphabet are encoding my thoughts...
...and allowing you to read them right now.

The DNA is only the keyboard, html and alphabet/language...
...to carry the 'information' that is other than the DNA media

You can read more here...

The Atheist's Riddle: 30+ Skeptics Attempt To Solve It
www.cosmicfingerprints.com...

Some of the brainiac athiests on ATS might like to take his challenge.

reply to post by troubleshooter



This could be one of the finest posts on ATS. I am reading through it right now, and that is an outstanding link.

S&F For you Von... excellent thread, and I am further entrenched into the reality of virtual reality!

Digital reality ftw!

reply to post by VonDoomen


Great Thread OP. S and F.

I caught this short lecture from wolfram a few weeks, it explains some of the concepts you have introduced.

Stephen Wolfram, creator of Mathematica, talks about his quest to make all knowledge computational -- able to be searched, processed and manipulated. His new search engine, Wolfram Alpha, has no lesser goal than to model and explain the physics underlying the universe.

Enjoy the brilliance.




[edit on 5/6/10 by atlasastro]

added an extra S&F to the growing heap you have, brilliantly layed out, just overall a great thread to read..
i have always tinkered at the thought of being virtual, makes life seem a bit cooler.

Thank you for this awesome thread! I started thinking about this when I read Frank Tippler's "Physics of Immortality" in the early 90's.
Then I read Nick Bostom's paper "Are We A Computer Simulation?" From there I found Ray Kurziweil's, "The Age of Spiritual Machines."
Now I have your wonderful thread that stimulates my curiosity and inspires my sense of wonder!

“If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.” -Tesla

The Americanist

You'll find information inside those blogs (view all).

As additional reference (youtube or google search terms):

Dale Pond - Keely, SVP
Marko Rodin - (look for a 44pt Lecture Series) Vortex Math Model
Nassim Haramein - Vector Based Geometry

Thanks; for an amazing thread VonDoomen!!!

If what's important is information, rather than energy, I wonder if it will ever be possible to "hack" into the Universe, in order to get it to say produce more energy, than you started with? Or even just energy-matter out of nowhere at all? Maybe this could be done by a machine right now, i.e. one that uses the information on how it works, to violate what we still call laws of phyisics.

Humanity could get a lot of fun, out a universe computer, perhaps even linking it directly to our own internet in say a 1000 years, what will be vertural will be real?
I just hope nobody figures out a way to create a Virus!!! I bet needing to scan the universe the whole time, would slow it right down!